Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
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The Nonesuch
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The Nonesuch - Sept 2014 Group Read - Chapters 1 to 10
This will be my second time through the book and I'm listening to the audiobook from Audible.
1. Re-reading for the umpteenth time (seriously I've lost track how many many times I've read and re-read all of Heyer's books). 2. Hard copy out of my growing library of second-hand Heyer (because old books are always better than brand new copies ;) ).
I read Nonesuch for the first time over 25 years ago and read all or part of it several times a year. I had a paperback which I wore out. I now have it on Kindle and a new large print hardback.
I haven't read it quite as many times as some of the others, because I didn't have a copy of my own until a few years ago. But I'm looking forward to reading it again!
I’m another who has lost count of the number of rereadings. Am on my second paperback copy, and its binding is getting dicey. After years of having a complete set of Heyer in horrendous acid-paper copies from the 1960s and 1970s, bought at used bookstores, I upgraded to newer editions in the 2000s.
I just re-read it for the bazillioth time, my copy is a hardback large print that is starting to fall apart.
I've definitely read it more than once but not for a few years. I've got the paperback but I've decided to try the audible version this time :)I probably won't have time to start it until the weekend though, hopefully I won't be too far behind!
Amy Who is reading it for the first time? Who's rereading it? How many times have you read it?What format are you reading it in?
I've read it at least 6 times. I'm reading (er... read!) it as a Thorndike large print
How come so many people are reading a large print edition? Were there a lot of these made and still available? Or is everyone bespectacled like I am...
On this reading, I’m enjoying the spectrum of behaviors among the adult women in the story—the squire’s wife, Mrs. Chartley, Mrs. Underhill. Jane Austen is often focused on what constitutes real gentility—is it class? background? upbringing? or something more subtle in the heart or in the mind? (Obviously, we are supposed to know the answer.) Heyer seems to be engaging with this question, with Mrs. Underhill who is vulgar but has good instincts, Mrs. Chartley who is ladylike but too judgmental, and the squire’s wife who is neither as genteel as she thinks she is nor as kind as she ought to be.
@AbigailThese are very keen observations about the women of the neighborhood in the story!
This is why group reads are so awesome. I'm getting other insights even tho I have read it before.
Thanks! I agree that it’s fascinating to get other people’s perspectives on the books one is reading. I’ve learned a lot from my fellow Goodreaders.
I am very fond of the very first paragraph where Waldo says with a twinkle in his eye that he is the heir. Good authors get you right from the start and you can't help but read on.
I am reading it for the first time alternating between the Kindle and the Audible version, which is really fun to do, as it keeps my place in each, so I can continue while I knit. Tiffany's tantrums are wonderful on the audio; the reader is great!
@MaryIf I get around to buying some audiobooks by GH, I'll have to bear in mind that this title is especially good in that format.
I’m in chapter 8 right now, and am finding that this time around, I’m a little annoyed by GH’s excessive (show-offy?) use of Regency slang. That slang has always been a source of pleasure for me in her books, but in this one, it seems as if she uses it just for the sake of demonstrating her research. For instance, “Too many gull-catchers hang about him [Mountsorrel]—not to mention the Bloods, and the Dashers, and the Care-for-Nobodies.” Seems over the top. Any thoughts?
Amy wrote: "How come so many people are reading a large print edition? Were there a lot of these made and still available? Or is everyone bespectacled like I am..."Our library now doesn't have many of GH's books, but has both a large print & a "regular" of this one. This copy was the one that happened to be on the shelf when I went in.
Abigail wrote: "I’m in chapter 8 right now, and am finding that this time around, I’m a little annoyed by GH’s excessive (show-offy?) use of Regency slang. That slang has always been a source of pleasure for me in..."No I still loved the slang but there were a couple of expressions that weren't easy to figure out.
There are glossaries of GHs slang on the Web if you don't own a copy of JKloester's "Georgette Heyer's Regency World." Just imagine how it was to read Regency slang before the Web!
Abigail wrote: "I’m in chapter 8 right now, and am finding that this time around, I’m a little annoyed by GH’s excessive (show-offy?) use of Regency slang. That slang has always been a source of pleasure for me in..."I do agree that often the slang is over the top, used just because she can. There are paragraphs which, if you stopped to look them all up, it would take 10-15 minutes to get through. I do enjoy some of the obvious ones like mushroom—A person or family suddenly raised to riches and eminence: an allusion to that fungus, which starts up in a night. Definition from that great source online:
http://www.regencyassemblypress.com/R...
Abigail wrote: "On this reading, I’m enjoying the spectrum of behaviors among the adult women in the story—the squire’s wife, Mrs. Chartley, Mrs. Underhill. Jane Austen is often focused on what constitutes real ge..."yes, one the best things about this book is that you get a sense of the entire neighborhood and how everyone in their little society acts and interacts with each other.
the slang in this one isn't bothering me too much, there were one or two books that did - I'm thinking Lady of Quality was one...?
Abigail wrote: "I’m in chapter 8 right now, and am finding that this time around, I’m a little annoyed by GH’s excessive (show-offy?) use of Regency slang. That slang has always been a source of pleasure for me in..."I think GH may have been having Waldo make a point to Ancilla about how these names of sets meant to identify people don't always tell the full tale, like "Corinthian" and "Nonesuch" for him. But maybe not!
That’s a good point, Hj. I threw it out there in hopes of sparking conversation!
Is there any hope that Tiffany will turn out to be a descent person?
@AmyI think in order for Tiffany to become a decent person, something major is going to have to take place to dispel her deep-seated belief that she is the center of the universe and is entitled to have *everything* her way.
Her aunt Mrs Underhill was a terrible custodial guardian to have reared such a monster.
"descent person" = having descendants? :)
Lol. I really shouldn't try to post from my phone. Everything looks okay on such a small screen.
At least semi-seriously ... there is a real question about whether she'll ever get anybody to marry her, and have kids, if she doesn't shape up. Despite all the money.
Maybe some exquisite from the ton who doesn’t want a real wife, only an ornament to enhance his own luster (some might even whisper, a beard).
I think that Tiffany's sole attraction is her $$$.
She could probably attract some impoverished peer.
Match her up with Vincent Darracott (from The Unknown Ajax). I'll bring the popcorn. ;)
@MargaretI agree! Tiffany and Vincent Darracott are each what the other deserves!
However, because of Hugo, Vince has no shot for a title. I think in order for Tiffany to accept VD, she would have to fall madly in love with him.
But I think Tiffany is too set on someday becoming Lady something or other to let Vincent get the opportunity to attach her.
In chapter 3 Ancilla's thoughts on Tiffany's character. "But Miss Trent had long since realized that her lovely charge was governed by self-interest. Perhaps, if she were to be deeply in love one day, her nature might undergo a change" So I must assume she was open to the possibility that such a change was possible although maybe not probable.
Ellen wrote: "In chapter 3 Ancilla's thoughts on Tiffany's character. "But Miss Trent had long since realized that her lovely charge was governed by self-interest. Perhaps, if she were to be deeply in love one..."The problem is that if she were deeply in love with someone she wouldn't have time to change her character before he grew disgusted with her and broke her heart. Unless he was one of those very kind, gentle, people who keep giving everyone a second chance and, because he believed in her ability to improve, she could. But I would strongly advise him to wait for the improvement before he married her and was stuck with her for life!
She just might get better at pretending; learn on an intellectual level what she ought to be feeling and saying, even if in fact she remained just as selfish as ever. I think that's more likely.
Mod
$$$. "
"$$$"?! In Yorkshire?
@JennyI meant money not dollars. The keyboard on my iPhone and computer do not incl the British symbol for pounds.
Hj wrote: "She just might get better at pretending; learn on an intellectual level what she ought to be feeling and saying, even if in fact she remained just as selfish as ever. I think that's more likely."I think I agree. She would just learn to role-play a decent person, because she would observe that that is what got results . Or not, in which case she would either remain a beautiful but increasingly bitter 'spinster' or she would have to settle for some elderly impoverished peer taking her on and ignoring the tantrums etc by going to his club...
Mod
But she's beautiful and she's rich, so there's no danger of her being left on the shelf, even with the taint of 'trade' - though that might prevent her from bagging any very high up peer. She might have to settle for a hard-up Viscount, like Jenny (A Civil Contract) Chawleigh, though I doubt if she'll ever be such a good wife as Jenny!
No I don't see hear ever being a good wife - or mother . She would be a bit like Sylvester's sister-in-law Ianthe as a mother - only probably not so good tempered . An old impoverished peer I see her getting eventually , unless she was reckless enough for a slip on the shoulder to be a possibility first , that is .......
I'm a bit behind, and I just came across "thick as inkleweavers" last night! Loved it!
Karlyne wrote: "I'm a bit behind, and I just came across "thick as inkleweavers" last night! Loved it!"It's great, isn't it! If we all started dropping it into conversation (!) I think maybe we could revive it.
Ooh, a viral slang attack! Let's go for it!
I am going to look for every opportunity to use it today!
I'm reading the first American hardcover edition. There are a few mistakes/typos. The first mention of Miss Wield's name is Theophania! Is Tiffany her nickname or did Heyer change her mind and no one dared correct the it? This is my second reading of the book and I'm struck by how much cant there is. I love her use of cant but this one is a bit over the top. Every other word Waldo says to his cousin is intelligible by normal standards.
I love Waldo. He's a perfect hero. His sense of humor is wonderful and he's able to deal well with awful Tiffany. She actually needs to either marry someone like him or someone really strong who will tell her to shut up and stop being so obnoxious. I can't really blame her behavior in Leeds. I can't say that I wouldn't feel the same way when I was younger. Her temper tantrums, on the other hand, are what makes her so awful.
Julian is a sweet boy and I like him aside from the fact that he was bowled over by Tiffany's beauty.
Ancilla is a good heroine but needs to be more in the forefront. She is guilty of spoiling Tiffany too. She heads off the tantrums rather than actually doing anything about them. I love her conversations with Waldo. He draws out her livelier side.
Qnpoohbear wrote: "I'm reading the first American hardcover edition. There are a few mistakes/typos. The first mention of Miss Wield's name is Theophania! Is Tiffany her nickname or did Heyer change her mind and no o..."Yes Tiffany was a nickname.
Qnpoohbear wrote: "I'm reading the first American hardcover edition. There are a few mistakes/typos. The first mention of Miss Wield's name is Theophania! Is Tiffany her nickname or did Heyer change her mind and no o..."I think that's her proper name, and Tiffany is a nickname derived from it.
I think that what is bad about her behaviour in Leeds is not that she *felt* as she did the moment the incident occurred (as you say, almost an understandable reaction) but that she didn't appreciate that she should not feel that way and should *behave* as though she didn't. Her outburst on the pavement and her continuing insistence that she should come first is what is unacceptable.
By the time Ancilla meets Tiffany she is already thoroughly spoilt. Meeting her head-on in every situation would achieve nothing. Ancilla is slowly inculcating concepts and ideas new to her, and is using the diversionary tactics one normally deploys with very young children!
I dunno, I would be tempted to give her two tight slaps!
Start reading ...
Post your first thoughts/ideas/questions/discussions here.
Two questions to start us off:
Who is reading it for the first time? Who's rereading it? How many times have you read it?
What format are you reading it in?