Vaginal Fantasy Book Club discussion
Sep 2014: Magic Bites
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Discuss the Alt-Book: A Discovery of Witches
I decided not to when people who liked the series said that the 1st was mostly a set-up for the 2nd. Like you, I was pretty turned off by the negative reviews (especially since the description did not appeal to me at all). Had the story sounded better to me, I probably would have given it a shot despite the bad reviews.
Heather wrote: "I decided not to when people who liked the series said that the 1st was mostly a set-up for the 2nd. Like you, I was pretty turned off by the negative reviews (especially since the description did ..."Yeah, I'm not looking forward to the unnecessary stuff about going rowing, running, doing yoga, and making tea, etc, that have been mentioned in the bad reviews. I'm going to give the audiobook a shot, but I'm preparing myself for possibly lemming this one.
I'm reading/listening to these right now (middle of book 2) and I'm enjoying them but not blown away. Honestly there is a whiff of Twilight in the romance parts but the main female is much better than emo boring Bella, who really was terrible. Diana at least is a developed character with a life.It takes a while to get the full picture of the world, but once you do it's pretty interesting. I like the witchcraft, the vampires aren't quite scary enough but at least they don't sparkle, and the side characters are a lot of fun.
Yes, they drink a lot of tea and tons of wine and she rows and does yoga. But those aren't bad and much better than endless descriptions of shoe brands.
I liked the first book better than the 2nd so far actually, but I'm definitely hooked by the overall mystery so I will be reading book 3.
I find the audio narration competent but nothing mind blowing or annoying.
I read book 1 and 2 last year, so I don't remember all the details. I though the books were good, quick reads, but not great books. Make sense? I did like book 1 a lot better than 2. Also, I'm a sucker for time travel stories, so that helped a bit.
I'm not reading the alt this month but I found this review so funny that I had to link it. It contains spoilers.https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Hmmm, I don't know if it's the audio narrator's voice (because she has a very monotonous, Daria-like tone) or if it's the story itself, but I feel like the pace of chapter one is just crawling.
Maybe try listening at 1.5 speed? That helps sometimes.Anyways, I found it a bit confusing at first, maybe three chapters or so, before I understood what this world was like. Then I was into it.
That review is funny. It does take the worst aspects and exaggerate them a bit, and the romance is corny and cliché at times. Thankfully I didn't pick them up for the romance.
**I just want to point out that one thing I found refreshing about these books is that the MC isn't a ass-kicking ninja warrior woman, or a sarcastic, bitter cop/PI, or wicked with the gun-fu. She starts out pretty darn ordinary, and while she supposedly turns out to have huge witch power stuff, by 50% of book 2 she still can't really use it.
I will definitely try a faster speed and see how that works out, thanks! :)
I listened to the audio book a while ago and liked it, but it was a while ago. Since then I've listen to other narrators that I really liked better. Now I have the 3rd book "The Book of Life" to read, so I may go back to this again because I don't remember much about the story line, other than it ended in a cliff hanger that annoyed me some as the 3rd book wasn't out then, and it was a long wait to get to it.
Gunnhildur wrote: "I'm not reading the alt this month but I found this review so funny that I had to link it. It contains spoilers.https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."
That review made me laugh so hard. It might be impossible to read the book without picturing the guy shouting every line.
I'm someone who wrote a bad review for this book. I hadn't seen that review but it sounds pretty accurate as far as my memory goes. I could not get into this book at all. For me it dragged, the characters were not interesting or likeable and I did not want to spend any more time with them. I did try skimming the middle and reading the end to see if it improved but it didn't!
I just finished chapter 3 and I feel like Matthew is a bit of a creeper. Okay, fine, he needed to know if she had that magical tome that is apparently so special for some unknown reason, but couldn't he have broken into her apartment when she WASN'T at home? I don't know yet if he has to conform to the vampire No Sunlight rule, but surely there would be a night when she's not there. And then he just stands there and stares at her for apparently hours! What. Even.Also, can we talk about how the male love interests in romance novels always seem to smell like cinnamon, or sandalwood, or some other earthy scent? Why is that?
Brittany wrote: "Also, can we talk about how the male love interests in romance novels always seem to smell like cinnamon, or sandalwood, or some other earthy scent? Why is that? "I'm convinced there's a Male Romance Mart where they shop for their identical scents, clothes, and take some smoldering/brooding/creeping lessons.
Heather wrote: "I'm convinced there's a Male Romance Mart where they shop for their identical scents, clothes, and take some smoldering/brooding/creeping lessons. "Haha! And the majority of them shop in the Alpha Male section where the smoldering/brooding/creeping lessons come free with every purchase.
I'm not yet halfway through the book yet, but I'm pretty sure I'm the only one on here that is really enjoying it so far. The only part I have a problem with is the bad science in chapter 13(?). Other than that, though it's sometimes frustrating, I like not knowing everything right up front, as that mostly puts me where the main character is. I also like the little extra details of her day to day life, and I really don't understand why anyone would have a problem with her doing yoga, rowing, and/or drinking tea, especially since most of the story (so far, anyway) takes place in a library (bonus points for that, since I LOVE libraries; the older and bigger the better). I see those extra details and activities as another way to get to know the character rather than just through her thoughts or being told only through description of her from other viewpoints.I am a little bit wary of Matthew, and have been since the start, but I also think that puts me in the character's shoes. Maybe the romance (or the beginnings of one, since I'm not very far into the story yet) is a little cliche, but please someone, anyone, show me a story involving a vampire as a love interest that isn't. In all my years of reading books with at least one vampire character, I've yet to see anything original, but I think that's one of the many reasons why I love vampire stories so much. They're familiar, and I know, for the most part, what I'm getting.
Of the many things I found impossible with this book (and that review captures them perfectly), does she ever bother to explain the third species at all? Daimons or daemons or whatever? They seem like such an afterthought. How do you even tell that they aren't normal humans? They are artistic geniuses I guess, but why? This is such wish fulfillment for academic thirty-somethings it's not even funny.
@Gunnhilur oh my god that review is the hilarious... and valuable. Yeah, I will not be reading this book. It sounds like it has everything in it that I have grown to loath in these genre books. I'm SO OVER vampires! Then you throw in the domineering douche trope, the "Duke-y" dude trope, the blind-side marriage trope (I need a good term for when the heroine is married without her knowledge... suggestions?), and the "whoops, turns out you're the most powerful X ever" trope and you get a book you couldn't pay me to read at this point.
For those of you who want to read it/ are reading it, I sincerely hope I'm wrong and the review is off base and it's great. Happy to have you all tell me all about it without my having to read it myself.
Anna wrote: "@Gunnhilur oh my god that review is the hilarious... and valuable. Yeah, I will not be reading this book. It sounds like it has everything in it that I have grown to loath in these genre books. I..."
I'm really sick of the over-romanticized vampires. If they're docile and pretty much just immortal humans, then they're pretty boring. I also hate vampires who have lived for so long but have never truly felt love until seeing the main character for a whole second and instantly swooning.
Philippa wrote: "This is such wish fulfillment for academic thirty-somethings it's not even funny."Or it would be if she had remained an intelligent academic and stayed near a library for the whole book. Even that bit of wish fulfilment gets a slap in the face the instant she meets Mr Douche and magically morphs into a passive cardboard cut-out of a person.
I enjoyed the first in the series, but I'm struggling to make my way through the second. *Spoiler alert here!* I'm not enjoying reading about Victorian Diana trying to harness her powers, though I do enjoy the banter between Matthew and his chums. *End of spoiler alert!*I feel like I'd need to start the whole series again in order for it to make any sense because I've been reading the second in stops and starts that I forget what happened in what I already have read!
Well, I liked it :)I'm not much of a typical "romance" reader (or of vampire romance) and so I guess I'm not sick of the usual romance tropes used here, though I do see them being used. I'm actually enjoying the difference and kind of wallowing in the whole love at first sight, trembly, deep gaze, daydreaming, annoying yet intriguing, meaningful glances stuff.
She doesn't really explain much about the daemons (at least 1/2 way through book 2), but it seems all three creatures are genetic offshoots/mutations of "normal" humans. It's got to be all explained in Ashmolean 782, which they probably won't get their hands on again until book 3.
The vampires have no sunlight problems. Matthew is suffering from broody, creepy, obsession at first sight syndrome. They avoid being seen too much in broad daylight because their otherworldly gorgeousness is just too noticable there ;)
While he does suffer from alpha male bossypants, she at least doesn't let him walk all over her wishes, though she does act sensibly (gasp!) and follow his direction when things get dangerous.
When you get to her family and home (last 25%) it's pretty fun, they are a bit wacky. And I loved his mom in France.
Philippa wrote: "Of the many things I found impossible with this book (and that review captures them perfectly), does she ever bother to explain the third species at all? Daimons or daemons or whatever? They seem..."As I listen to the audiobook, I'm also curious to know how exactly they tell the supernatural folks apart from regular humans. Is it just the weird tingling sensations Diana gets when one kind or another stares at her? She described vampires as being a cold spot on her back and I can't recall what witches and demons feel like to her, but is that just what it's like for all the supernatural folks, or is it just Diana? Do all the supers in this book just feel weird sensations when another paranormal being is near?
I think witches feel the tingles (but somehow know the difference between vamps, daemons and witches) and vampires can smell the differences, dunno about how the daemons sense other creatures.
PointyEars42 wrote: "Philippa wrote: "This is such wish fulfillment for academic thirty-somethings it's not even funny."Or it would be if she had remained an intelligent academic and stayed near a library for the who..."
True. I can't disagree with that.
It's disappointing because the author is clearly intelligent and articulate and an historian to boot. It just feels as though this book is an attempt to write out a detailed wish fulfillment fantasy. I read one review on NPR which said that the author actually did discover a lost book by John Dee in the Bodleian. Which is truly exciting but does make it feel even more like an extension of wish fulfillment for her. I don't know; I feel like this could have been much better. Instead of surpassing its tropes it just lurched from one to the other.
Michele wrote: "I think witches feel the tingles (but somehow know the difference between vamps, daemons and witches) and vampires can smell the differences, dunno about how the daemons sense other creatures."I just read the preview on Amazon and yeah a witch tingles. When a deamon takes a look she feels the slight unnerving pressure of a kiss and a vampire feels cold, focused and dangerous.
Gunnhildur wrote: "Michele wrote: "I think witches feel the tingles (but somehow know the difference between vamps, daemons and witches) and vampires can smell the differences, dunno about how the daemons sense other..."Ok, now I remember the kiss thing for demons. I was really weirded out by the idea of the phantom pressure of a kiss randomly happening. Gives me the willies.
I'm really excited to be reading this book again because I haven't read it in a while.
Is it supposed to be romantic when a guy won't have sex with you? I mean, I understand wanting there to be more to the relationship than sex, but it's always something that bugs me as a romance trope. Loving me too much to sleep with me is just frustrating not romantic, in my book.
Lauren wrote: "Is it supposed to be romantic when a guy won't have sex with you? I mean, I understand wanting there to be more to the relationship than sex, but it's always something that bugs me as a romance tr..."YES! I had a boyfriend once who said I looked "too innocent" for him to want to do much sexually. It's creepy and insulting. If you have some reason for waiting (too fast for you, comfort, want to know someone, believe there should be a defined commitment, etc.) fine, but the "you're too good/sweet/innocent for sex" is beyond frustrating.
I'm halfway through chapter 8 now and there's really not a lot happening. Diana just went to yoga with Matthew. Also, there's still nothing so far that really explains what's so important about the Ashmole 782 manuscript and I can't help but wonder when does ANYTHING start happening beyond going to yoga, going rowing, or going to tea and breakfast with Matthew? It's chapter 8 for goodness sake! Shouldn't there be SOMETHING happening by now? Seriously, am I imagining things or is the plot really this slow? I mean, come on! I get that this is a really long book, so there's a slow burn/build going on, but even Outlander had stuff happening after like chapter 3 and it's comparable in length to this book!
I lemmed this book after a hundred pages of endless talk of tea, vampire yoga, and no sex scenes. I agree, Matthew's mood swings makes me think that he's bi-polar.Really glad I checked this book out at the library, instead of buying it.
@Brittany & @Michele I'll be getting back into the book in a couple weeks, but as I remember it all the supernatural creatures know when another creature is around, and they can tell what each other are by sort of a 6th sense.
Claire wrote: "I enjoyed the first in the series, but I'm struggling to make my way through the second. *Spoiler alert here!* I'm not enjoying reading about Victorian Diana trying to harness her powers, though I ..."I do remember having a hard time with the 2nd book after seriously enjoying the 1st. She adds A TON of characters, historical and non-historical, and it can be really tough to remember who everyone is and how they relate to each other. I have to say, though, I did like watching Diana finally begin to truly discover how much power she has as a witch.
Also, if the 2nd book is giving you fits, prepare yourself...The 3rd book adds even more characters! I'm about two thirds finished with that one and at least I can say that we are getting answers about the overall Ashmole 782 mystery & it's set in the present day, which should make you happy!
My experience withe this book is very mixed. I liked it enough to read the second one (70% so far) and prob. the third. The story is mildly interesting, but the writing style is a little dull for my taste, I ended up doing a lot of skimming.As for the characters (view spoiler)
Anyway I will probably finish the series, but doubt I would recommend this to a friend.
Am I the only person to get PTSD flashbacks to Twilight? I only made it to page 75 before I just lemmed it. Better than I got with Twilight but STILL! Maybe I'm just over reading the UF genre but I am super sick of all the tropes that this book had. (Mary Sue female, a hole/creeper type love interest who Mary Sue gives up her entire life to obey.)
Would anyone recommend to skip the 2nd book and just read the 3rd?
When I read the Discovery of Witches, all I could imagine was Benedict Cumberbatch playing Matthew Clairmont. Holy Hotness, Batman!!!! Or is it holy hotness, Sherlock :)
This book was a roller coaster of weird to me. I have read the 2nd, and will probably read the 3rd--I just really want to know what happens with the damn book, and I love the secondary characters. It started so amazingly well for me that when it derailed into strong-woman-turns-helpless-in-arms-of-sexy-vampire, I actually kept reading. I LOVE fantasy--and witches and vampires are some of my favorite subjects. Even more, I LOVE science. This book gave me a gorgeous vampire scientist, and I was giddy.
Then the intellectual, strong-willed historian loses her shit when the world falls down and never really gets back to the same place of confidence. Sigh. Oh well--I didn't hate it. It just had a disappointing twist. I enjoyed most of the characters quite a bit.
@Gunnhildur Thanks for that review link! Having read that, I really don't feel the need to waste my time on this book, especially not when I have so many other, actually good, books to read.Also, that plot synopsis feels oddly and sadly familiar, and I've never read Twilight. Do you think that reviewer just posted the style sheet from a PNR publisher and changed the names?
I'm into the 3rd book now, maybe 30%, still liking them. I think you'd be a little lost if you skip the 2nd, unless you find a plot summary of it.I've said in the thread for the main pick, that I'm tired of sarcastic, tough chicks who run around kicking ass and taking names. I think maybe that's why I'm enjoying this trilogy. Diana seems like a much more understandable, normal person (aside from the witchy powers that she is finally learning to use) that I can relate to. She makes her own choices enough and stands up to Matthew when she needs to, I don't feel she is a tool.
I find the whole "badass," thing to be way more wish fullfilment fantasy in some ways, but then, I'm a short Asian in my 40s so running around with a sword and chopping up monsters and being angry at the world all the time just sounds exhausting lol.
Whelp, to each her own. This month I find the alt much more appealing than the main.
Helen wrote: "@Gunnhildur Thanks for that review link! Having read that, I really don't feel the need to waste my time on this book, especially not when I have so many other, actually good, books to read.Also..."
Heheheh. I've never read Twilight either but you might be on to something.
Heather wrote: "Brittany wrote: "Also, can we talk about how the male love interests in romance novels always seem to smell like cinnamon, or sandalwood, or some other earthy scent? Why is that? "I'm convinced t..."
Because those scents are the ones that most appeal to women.
Nym wrote: "This book was a roller coaster of weird to me. I have read the 2nd, and will probably read the 3rd--I just really want to know what happens with the damn book, and I love the secondary characters. ..."That is exactly how I felt as well. Her strong to swoon was annoying, but witches and vampires and I have to see how it ends.
I really enjoyed this book when I read it a couple of months back, but I would have preferred to just read about her doing all her research. That's probably because I'm in the middle of my PhD in a vaguely related topic so I didn't feel guilty when reading this instead of doing my own research. The romance was kinda meh though, but I still enjoyed this and the sequel. I enjoyed the excessive chat about wine and yoga though, again because I like that kind of crap. Basically, if it wasn't for the romance bits this books seems aimed at exactly me, and if I fancied annoying possessive vampires it would have been perfect....but I don't. So ultimately it turns out I like books about fancy stretching, drinking wine and spending hours in the archives, which possibly means I have no imagination.
I'm still not too far into the book, only chapter 12 (I really only listen to the audiobook when I drive to and from work), but I'm not feeling particularly invested in the characters. And I still find it bizarre that Diana is so quick to trust Matthew after only a couple of days, especially since he was basically stalking her the first day or so. One thing that really bugs me about the creatures in the book, though, is that vampires are basically just enhanced humans with heightened senses and immortality. No fangs, no sunlight problem, they can have food besides drinking blood...What's the point of having "vampires" in your story if they're not really vampires in the traditional sense? Makes me think of Twilight, tbh. Also, the brooding vampire trope is tired.
And why is interaction between witches, vampires, and demons considered a Very Bad Thing? Is it just because the witches are racist assholes? 'Cause so far the only people in the book who seem like real jerks are the few witches that Diana has come across (ie that wizard who invaded her brain and that witch chick who basically said fellow witches killed Diana's parents bc they pretty much just didn't like how nonconformist they were.) The demons seem pretty harmless, and aside from Matthew being a creeper and his assistant having an attitude about babysitting Diana (rightfully so, imo, because who would ever want that job?), vampires aren't so bad either.
You'll meet some badguy vamps. And yes, pretty much each "race" of creature is prejudiced against the others.I finished the trilogy yesterday. Overall I liked the story. I think book 2 was too much filler, though I enjoyed the setting. Book 3 wrapped things up/explained everything fairly satisfactorily, but maybe a little too neatly or easily.
Anyways, it was a quick fun read for me, all three.
Jesus Christ - 80% in and it still hasn't got to the point. If the author had an editor or beta readers I'd be very surprised. Seriously - you need to put every detail you've ever learned from that one book about mitrochondrial DNA? (it's by Brian Sykes, it really is quite good)
Oh damn. I thought this was the Main! Oh well.Question to the group. Has it always been that witches where not human? I thought they were humans with special skills? Or at most a different breed of human. Like vamps being a dead breed of human.
So confused.
In this book the witches and vampires and daemons have different DNA or something. Usually witches are just humans with unexplained powers, vampires are dead and/or cursed and demons are creatures from hell.
Anyone else listening to the audiobook? Has anyone else read the bad reviews for it and are a little wary of actually wanting to read it, like me?