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The Song of Achilles
2016-19 Activities & Challenges
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Buddy Read for The Song of Achilles
I am in! It is my June Trim book. Will start this weekend when I finish my current read.Looking forward as I loved Circe.
Finished for the Beauty tag. I may just follow along to see what you all think. I listened to this on audio, it was well done.
I have an ARC to read first but I'll jump in when I can.
Karen wrote: "I have an ARC to read first but I'll jump in when I can."Glad to have you on board.
Well I ditched my first choice, and know The Song of Achilles is gone from my library-*sigh*-if I get it this month I am in
As a kid, I used to like to read the child's version of myths, but as an adult, I really haven't read any mythology and it is always my goal to read more. I've had a copy of Bulfinch's on my shelf for years and I've yet to crack it open.I suppose The Song of Achilles is one way to educate myself.
I am enjoying it so far.
Glad to see a good group of people for this.
Great to see a good sized group forming! Let's try to tag spoilers as some will be getting to this laterin the month.I was able to start it late on Sunday, and got through first 3 chapters quickly. Already I am captivated by the writing, the voice of Patroclus sounding clear.
I’m listening to the audio book I bought months ago for $3 and so far it’s really enjoyable
I finished it. Not sure when I will do my review.I found it to be a interesting and enjoyable book, which I was able to fly through.
Booknblues wrote: "As a kid, I used to like to read the child's version of myths, but as an adult, I really haven't read any mythology and it is always my goal to read more. I've had a copy of Bulfinch's on my shelf ..."That was my attitude too, and between Circe and Song of Achilles, I picked up a lot about the Illiad and the Odyssey.
I still think I want to read it sometime, besides the condensed child's versions I've read.
I've only got about 100 pages to go - still loving it! It's also reaffirming my desire to read both The Odyssey and The Illiad again - both last read in their entirety in college, bits and pieces since. I'll just have to settle on a translation from the multiples I own.
Maybe that will be my Dog Days of August reading?!
I have a question - are there really spoilers in this story? I mean, don't we all know the basic outline of the story and how it all ends? I'm just anticipating finish it in the next 24 hours and writing up a review, then starting a discussion here. Would love to hear what you all think about spoilers who may not read it until later in the month.
There are spoilers. For anyone who haven’t read or doesn’t remember all the details. I already found myself surprised by something exciting that I didn’t remember
I have the general structure but enjoy plenty bits like it’s a new story
It definitely makes me want to go back to those stories. I forgot how cool Odysseus was, and how much FUN are these stories.
If I had to pick a religion I’m totally going Greek gods :)
Theresa wrote: "I have a question - are there really spoilers in this story? I mean, don't we all know the basic outline of the story and how it all ends? I'm just anticipating finish it in the next 24 hours and..."
I don't know if you'd call it a spoiler, but I think the main surprise is the LBGTQ element in this story. I don't think it was in the Iliad or in the Pat Barker book that some PBTers have read. Also the characters of Patroclus and Briseis are somewhat different in this book than in the basic mythology summaries. This story ends before the Trojan horse or the end of the war.
I really liked some of the smaller scenes toward the end involving Briseis, Patroclus and Achille's mother.
I'm listenjng to it and am not very far yet. I may do the Ki dle /audio combo. I don't know the story and the names and relationships are forgein, except Achelles, of course. I was not i to the myths, I found them boring as a high svhooler and somewhat offensive as an adult. Just the story of Achelles mother and fathers relationship is horrible.
I started reading it this morning. Glad I brought it to a doctor's appt b/c they were running late!
I finished in the wee hours this morning! Have not written my review yet but will soon. I did think it was wonderful but have a few reservations that led to a 4 star rating. Now that I have read both Circe and The Song of Achilles, I rank Achilles higher. I have friends who disagree with me though. Perhaps that becomes one of our discussion points?Edited: I meant I rank Circe higher! Tiredness wins out!
Theresa wrote: "I finished in the wee hours this morning! Have not written my review yet but will soon. I did think it was wonderful but have a few reservations that led to a 4 star rating. Now that I have read bo..."I liked them both, but Circe became a real favorite with the second reading. I'll admit to some gender bias. I really liked Patroclus in Songs, but it was easier for me to relate to the issues facing Circe. I also really enjoyed the (female) audio narration for Circe. I'm generally less interested in war stories, so parts of Song of Achilles were boring to me. I knew the Odyssey story better than The Iliad in advance.
The two books combined provide a great view of Odysseus. He's clever, obnoxious, and oh so interesting. I think I'll read Penelopiad next, and I suspect I'll see him at his worst.
Karen wrote: "I'm listenjng to it and am not very far yet. I may do the Ki dle /audio combo. I don't know the story and the names and relationships are forgein, except Achelles, of course. I was not i to the myt..."I grew to really like the character of Patroclus, and seeing Achilles through his eyes. I used a book/audio combo and it was especially handy for a book like this with unfamiliar names. It helps to see the spelling and hear the pronunciation of the names.
I actually meant I rank Circe higher! I found the language, imagery, and writing itself more powerful in Circe, more beautiful and evocative. Also there was a section during the last third of Achilles that felt too rainbows, unicorns, and puppies, and it irritated me. Right now I am a little more familiar with The Illiad than the Odyssey because a client of mine, a Tony winning actor, wrote and performed the most awesome, amazing one man show based on it. We had quite a few discussions about it and the various translations (his favorite book - quite the scholar on it) he had read.
Which translation does your friend (and you) like?I finished Sing of Achilles which I enjoyed very much, and started with the Fitzgerald translation of the Iliad.
I was always afraid of the level of difficulty, but it is friendly enough.
I was very surprised to realise that compared to the song of Achilles , the Iliad starts in the middle.
It basically starts where Achilles is angry with Agamemnon and decides not to fight.
I search a bit and accepted the idea that it is not the middle - the Iliad is basically a book about the wrath of Achilles. That’s the focus of this book. Not the whole of the war or the preceding events.
On a different topic - I’m thinking of making it into Iliad focused month - moving to Ransom by Malouf (about Priam asking for Hector’s body) and maybe Cassandra and The cure at Troy. Would be interesting to circle the war from many points of view.
Here's my review - I worked hard to have no spoilers. I do think I planted a few seeds for discussion. So here goes - and oh, I hit the trifecta with this one - my Trim #30, June Horizons Greece, and June tag retellings. And I really enjoyed it. The title says it all - this is Patroclus' song of Achilles as he knew him, told to immortalize him, a la minstrels and storytellers like Homer. It is a perfectly wonderful retelling of the life of Achilles, Aristos Achaion, the greatest Greek warrior of them all. But it is all told from the perspective of Patroclus, his longtime companion, and here, his lover and soulmate. Patroclus is a prince, gentle, clumsy, a disappointment to his ambitious father, and as a child is exiled from his homeland for committing murder, although as an adult, Patroclus realizes that 'it was not murder that had exiled me, it was my lack of cunning." He is sent to foster in the court of Phthia, where Achilles is prince in the court of his father. The boys meet, Patroclus becomes Achilles' constant companion, and as they grow to adulthood, love enters the story.
Of course, we follow them to the Trojan Wars, meeting so many characters of Greek myth, lore, legend, Euripides, and Homer along the way - Achilles mother Thetis, Chiron, Odysseus, Ajax, Hector, Agammenon, Iphegenia, so many others. We travel to Scyros where Thetis hides Achilles for a time. We sail to Troy. We live with the army on the plains surrounding Troy. We follow the both at the end to the underworld. Patroclus' journey through life is not an easy one, and prophecy haunts him, but his love for Achilles is so deep that the decisive moment when his actions bring the final end to the Trojan War and victory for the Greeks seems right and inevitable.
Miller has a gift for bringing the gods and mortals to vivid life, as people you know and understand, hate and love. All are flawed, but also all are gifted. No one is perfect, especially not the gods. There are deep themes here - ones about parental expectation, rebellion, ego, choice, the price of fame, legacy, a mother's love (even when she is immortal - she's still a mother). But the most important theme of all is love, eternal love. Miller's incorporation of LGBTQ love is so seamlessly done, so natural, and so perfect, one cannot possibly gripe about there being nothing in classical literature to support it.
I did have a couple of reservations though. There is a section in the final third of the book, when they are all at Troy, that is just a bit too rainbows, puppies, and unicorns for me, where it was just too fantastical. I just could not suspend my disbelief enough to 'buy' it. And lyrical, beautiful as the writing was, it just did not pack the power, was not as compelling, as that in Miller's second book, Circe.
Idit wrote: "Which translation does your friend (and you) like?I finished Sing of Achilles which I enjoyed very much, and started with the Fitzgerald translation of the Iliad.
I was always afraid of the leve..."
My friend names the Robert Fagles translation as probably his most favorite but he also said that there are superb sections to so many others, but the Fagles from 1990 is the one he knows best. Same here - and I remember what a big deal it was when it came out. Friends read the Alexander Pope translation and were not thrilled by it. My oldest copy and the first translation I ever read was of course Richard Lattimore's when I was a college student in the 1970s.
I have a relatively new translation awaiting my attention - and I can't remember by whom. I will look when I get home tonight.
BTW, while trying to figure out what other translation I have, I found this Wikipedia page that has a wonderful section next to each translation identified showing the English translation of the exact same passage in each book! I may just find myself buying yet another. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English...
Idit wrote: "On a different topic - I’m thinking of making it into Iliad focused month - moving to Ransom by Malouf (about Priam asking for Hector’s body) and maybe Cassandra and The cure at Troy. Would be interesting to circle the war from many points of view..."What a great idea! Also check out plays - Euripides - The Trojan Women, Iphigenia at Aulis, Andromache, Hecuba, Helen. And the Racine's french play - Iphigenie.
It will be fun reading your reviews.
Thanks Theresa - both for the translations and then idea for Troy related playsIphigenia would be worth of a play or three. I did not remember that bit and was shocked by it. What a dramatic story
Regarding Song of Achilles - one of the things she did really well was find what make it so dramatic - the sacrifices of important thing. The clash of hubris at its worse with the reasonable wish that you’ll be remembered - considering you won’t get much more out of the fight. Friendships and betrayed.
Everything that makes the Greek mythologies so awesome - she really treated it well and made it into a very coherent roller coaster
Idit- I checked and the translation of the Illiad hiding at the bottom of a tower on my bedside table is the 2011 Stephen Mitchell. That is the one I will most likely read again.
Theresa wrote: " There is a section in the final third of the book, when they are all at Troy, that is just a bit too rainbows, puppies, and unicorns for me, where it was just too fantastical. "I'm trying to figure out what you considered too rainbows, puppies and unicorns.
I am adding The Silence of the Girls by Pat Barker to my list for reading before Circe.
Booknblues wrote: "Theresa wrote: " There is a section in the final third of the book, when they are all at Troy, that is just a bit too rainbows, puppies, and unicorns for me, where it was just too fantastical. "I..."
(view spoiler)
Sarah wrote: "I am adding The Silence of the Girls by Pat Barker to my list for reading before Circe."I read them both-very different stories-but I loved them both
Theresa wrote: "Booknblues wrote: "Theresa wrote: " There is a section in the final third of the book, when they are all at Troy, that is just a bit too rainbows, puppies, and unicorns for me, where it was just to..."Ok, that makes sense. I actually liked that part, so didn't think to deeply about how probable it was.
Booknblues wrote: "Theresa wrote: "Booknblues wrote: "Theresa wrote: " There is a section in the final third of the book, when they are all at Troy, that is just a bit too rainbows, puppies, and unicorns for me, wher..."It may also be that being as versed in the myth and legend as I am, and in what realities were then, it just was not something I could accept as remotely plausible.
Joanne wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I am adding The Silence of the Girls by Pat Barker to my list for reading before Circe."I read them both-very different stories-but I loved them both"
I agree that they are very different stories, and I liked how the writing voice was so different between them.
Idit wrote: "one of the things she did really well was find what make it so dramatic - the sacrifices of important thing. The clash of hubris at its worse with the reasonable wish that you’ll be remembered - considering you won’t get much more out of the fight. Friendships and betrayed. Everything that makes the Greek mythologies so awesome - she really treated it well and made it into a very coherent roller coaster
Yes! It still feels like a myth, a story or, as suggested by the title, a song told after dinner, with lessons of friendship and betrayal, what is fame, interspersed in these incredible adventures - such an engaging read.
'Song' could refer to a classic Greek Chorus or collective voice that describe and comment on moral issues raised by dramatic action.
Sarah wrote: "'Song' could refer to a classic Greek Chorus or collective voice that describe and comment on moral issues raised by dramatic action."How interesting! It does fit except that it is only Patroclus' voice?
Certainly I thought as 'song' as applies here as a ballad or ode.
The Iliad is ‘the rage of Achilles’. That’s what it’s about and that’s the beginning line of the epic tale: Sing Goddess Achilles rage...”The title of our book is a direct answer to that.
beside giving Patroclus a voice, this book gives Achilles a song about his life, love and soul (and rage).
Idit wrote: "The Iliad is ‘the rage of Achilles’. That’s what it’s about and that’s the beginning line of the epic tale: Sing Goddess Achilles rage...”The title of our book is a direct answer to that.
beside ..."
So in the Iliad was Achilles rage about Agamemnon's disrespect or his loss of Patroclus?
The Iliad (I was surprised to find out) starts 9 years into the trojan war, just as Apollo sends the plague, Agamemnon has to return the young priestess he 'won' and demands to have Achilles prize instead. so Achilles rages (and sobbs to his mum)I've only realized now that the iliad is only one part of the cycle of the trojan war. most of the other parts didn't survive. there are bits here and there, but Homer's Iliad and Odyssey are the fullest parts. but they don't tell the whole story.
I'm only at book 5 out of 24, and I'm sure he will have more chances to rage. but the beginning rage refers to Agamemnon's disrespect, and the Iliad is definitely framed around Achilles part of the war. From the quarrel with Agamemnon to Achilles death
Thanks all for the clarity!
Found this map of "Homeric Greece" with the names of the major players. This helped me a lot! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...
Shelly wrote: "Found this map of "Homeric Greece" with the names of the major players. This helped me a lot! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..."
That is cool. Thanks, I always like to have a map to follow.
Shelly wrote: "Found this map of "Homeric Greece" with the names of the major players. This helped me a lot! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..."
that's a useful map. I'm listening to the Iliad now and am bogged down with the details - names and places. Will scrutinize the map
Play Book Tag
Books mentioned in this topic
Circe (other topics)The Song of Achilles (other topics)
The Song of Achilles (other topics)
The Song of Achilles (other topics)
It is the first book I'm planning on reading this month. I've started it already, but I'm not very far yet.