Spoiler thread - We Were the Mulvaneys by Joyce Carol Oates (May/June 2019)

[Judy]

This is a spoiler thread for our buddy read discussion of We Were the Mulvaneys by Joyce Carol Oates.

Please feel free to post discussion of later plot developments in this thread. You may wish to avoid this thread until you have finished reading the book.

[Judy]

I haven't finished the book as yet (hope to do so today), but have set up this spoiler thread now so we can discuss the rape - it is signalled from early in the book that it is going to happen, but still comes as a shock when it actually happens.

What does anyone think of the treatment of the rape? I think it's very well described - Marianne's confusion afterwards and the way the memories of what happened are all confused seem very convincing.

[Roman Clodia]

Yes, I also thought it was handled very well, not just Marianne's confusion and shame, but her appropriation of guilt. Her father's reaction is shocking, though JCO makes it understandable.

I've just got to Patrick's confrontation of Zachary - very powerfully written, I thought. I so didn't want him to become a murderer which is the 'easy' option lesser authors might have taken.

[Val]

I think I was more shocked by her mother's reaction, she is so loving and supportive otherwise. There is a line in We Need to Talk About Kevin along the lines of 'you love your children most when they need you the most' and I agree with it, a problem should bring a truely loving family closer together not drive them apart.

[Roman Clodia]

Ha, but Shriver also questions that sentiment in Kevin, doesn't she? I mean I loved that book for the way it complicates motherhood.

I feel that Corinne's reaction is less explained than the father's: he seems to be so caught up in his own powerlessness and inability to protect his daughter that she becomes a literal, if unwitting, reminder of what he perceives as his shame, a slur on his manhood.

But I'm less clear about why Corinne goes along with his need to send Marianne away? Is it that she feels caught between supporting either her husband or her child and feels that husband comes first? Is this linked into her sense of religious duty?

[Judy]

Roman Clodia wrote: "But I'm less clear about why Corinne goes along with his need to send Marianne away? Is it that she feels caught between supporting either her husband or her child and feels that husband comes first? Is this linked into her sense of religious duty? ..."

I found this quite hard to understand - there is the powerful scene where Corinne goes and rescues Mike, and thinks of him as her "firstborn" - her first love, who she needs to protect.

But, given her whole character that we have seen up to that point, so loving and supportive, as you say, Val ... it is hard to believe she would then be so carried away by this that she forsakes the actual victim, Marianne, and packs her off to a relative. Then, of course, she can't save her husband anyway.

[Val]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Ha, but Shriver also questions that sentiment in Kevin, doesn't she? I mean I loved that book for the way it complicates motherhood.
I admire it for that reason too, but that particular statement is towards the end of the book when Kevin is scared about his transfer to adult prison.

[Judy]

I'd better bite my lip as I didn't like We Need to Talk About Kevin - interesting to hear both your views, though.

[Roman Clodia]

Val wrote: "I admire it for that reason too, but that particular statement is towards the end of the book when Kevin is scared about his transfer to adult prison."

Yes, good point: that when it really comes down to it even an ambivalent mother is there for her child. Perhaps it's connected to Kevin *needing* her at that point and acting in the way that children are supposed to act.

[Roman Clodia]

So what did everyone think of the tentatively 'happy' ending to Mulvaneys? I never thought that was where JCO would go, but she made it credible for me, perhaps because the reunion is so compromised.

I was worried for Patrick through a large section of the book so was glad about where he was by the end.

[Val]

I haven't finished reading it yet. I wanted a break and something a lot more cheerful, so started reading "Don Camillo".

[Roman Clodia]

Oh gosh, sorry, Val - I assumed you'd finished it :(

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Oh gosh, sorry, Val - I assumed you'd finished it :("

Well, this *is* the spoiler thread.

[Val]

No apology required, I don't object to spoilers, but I can't comment on the ending yet.