And Then There Were None - Spoiler Thread

[Janet, series facilitator]

This is the spoiler thread for our May/June book, And Then There Were None.

Warning, don't read this until you've finished the book. It may contain details about key plot points and the ending

[Janet, series facilitator]

I thought that this quick reading book was a good psychological study of guilt, fear and justice(albeit justice distorted by one person whose medical diagnosis had obviously unhinged him).

[Linda]

Janet wrote: "I thought that this quick reading book was a good psychological study of guilt, fear and justice(albeit justice distorted by one person whose medical diagnosis had obviously unhinged him)."

Might disagree with you a tad on that...IIRC, that young man had been sentenced years before......so the idea had been in the back of his mind. It wasn't until he realized that death would liberate him from penance that he decided to act on that desire.
In a sense, the classic "closed room" tale.....a smaller area to cover, a finite list of suspects. In another sense, not classic in that it was hard for the reader (not having all of the clues) to piece together/guess who was guilty.
ETA: and no detective

[Janet, series facilitator]

Linda Abhors the New GR Design wrote: "Janet wrote: "I thought that this quick reading book was a good psychological study of guilt, fear and justice(albeit justice distorted by one person whose medical diagnosis had obviously unhinged ..."
Although the young man had been sentenced years before I never saw anything that said he had been contemplating something like this. He was obviously a person who believed in justice but to go this far - was he unhinged or had he been thinking about it and waiting till he would not have to suffer penance? Since he became one of the victims himself(by his own hand) he could have done that at any time and be liberated from penance. Therefore, I think he became unhinged.

[PattyMacDotComma]

I thoroughly enjoyed it, but I don't have any strong feelings about why anyone did anything. I do like to think there's a reason that characters do things, and I'm not sure I completely accepted why the "last man standing" did what he did. He may well have been unhinged, but I'm not convinced we knew he was that far gone. DId we? Should we have seen it?

My review, if anyone's interested.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Linda]

Janet wrote: "Linda Abhors the New GR Design wrote: "Janet wrote: "I thought that this quick reading book was a good psychological study of guilt, fear and justice(albeit justice distorted by one person whose me..."

Sorry , I thought we were both referring to the judge; I didn't see where it turned to "the young man" (Lombard). I thought you meant the judge was unhinged....
Of course, having seen the most recent production, I'm influenced by that.......but when the judge crossed eyes with the criminal who was to be hanged, he mentions that the realization came upon both of them that they weren't totally different. Both were responsible for the taking of life, though one did it for work and the other for pleasure.....and that the only thing that held the judge back over the years was the idea that he'd lose his livelihood, etc (not to mention being a judge in jail with people he'd put away).....once he had his diagnosis, he could carry it out knowing that he'd die, anyway.

[Janet, series facilitator]

Linda - I was referring to the judge. I take your point(having just watched the BBC production) that when the judge crossed eyes with the criminal he realized that they were not that different from each other so perhaps he wasn't unhinged by his diagnosis. However, since he commited suicide immediately after dispensing his own brand of justice, he could have done that at any point so I still think he became unhinged.

[Linda]

Janet wrote: "Linda - I was referring to the judge. I take your point(having just watched the BBC production) that when the judge crossed eyes with the criminal he realized that they were not that different from..."

Ah, okay, we differ there.....I took it as a desire he had repressed ever since locking eyes with that character, and finally giving in to it because........well, he was going to die, anyway. And then taking the "cowardly" way out and dispensing with himself vs allowing others to weigh his case, as he had done with others.

[Cordelia Lynn]

Was anyone shocked by who the mastermind turned out to be?

[PattyMacDotComma]

Codie wrote: "Was anyone shocked by who the mastermind turned out to be?"

Oh, yeah! And it was hard to figure out anyway, even when I knew!

[Rachel]

This turned differently than I expected. I would not have thought Vera would be the last one standing. I really thought the judge or Miss Brent was behind it all till they were both killed. I loved the resolution and thought that it was interesting that it was the judge after all. Did anyone catch that his letter was the only one not written by Mr. UN Owens?

[Janet, series facilitator]

Rachel wrote: "This turned differently than I expected. I would not have thought Vera would be the last one standing. I really thought the judge or Miss Brent was behind it all till they were both killed. I loved..."
Interesting observation about the letter. I think that Agatha liked Vera and Phillip best as characters so she let them live the longest(well, except for the judge).

[Kimberly]

I am new to this kind of thing, and I can’t figure out how to reference the comment I want to comment on.

First of all, I did not see the movie, so my comment is based solely on the book. I don’t think the judge became unhinged when he found out he was dying. According to the confession the judge wrote and tossed into the sea, he stated that from a very early age he had the lust to kill. Then he stated that for so many years now he has had a major urge to kill. To murder someone. To take action and not just judge. Then his confession states that over the course of some time, he started collecting his victims and formulating his dramatic, grand scale murder. Only when his doctor told the judge that he was dying, did the last piece of the puzzle fall into place, but the plan was already there, for the most part.

Now I’m not saying he wasn’t unhinged, but if that’s the case, he was always unhinged; it didn’t just happen when he discovered he were to die.

[Linda]

Kimberly wrote: "I am new to this kind of thing, and I can’t figure out how to reference the comment I want to comment on.

First of all, I did not see the movie, so my comment is based solely on the book. I don’t..."

that's the way I remembered it (but I re-read it in the fall, so it's been a while).

[Janet, series facilitator]

Kimberly wrote: "I am new to this kind of thing, and I can’t figure out how to reference the comment I want to comment on.

First of all, I did not see the movie, so my comment is based solely on the book. I don’t..."

Very good points Kimberly. When you bring in the factor of all the research he had done beforehand you have brought me around to your side.

[Cordelia Lynn]

He certainly put a lot of work into it! This is the first book I have read by her. It doesn’t really motivate me to read more of her works.

[Ella]

Does anyone know if this IS the first closed room (or box or whatever it's called) mystery ever written? I thought I heard/read that somewhere, but I'm not sure.

[Janet, series facilitator]

I have copied a link from Wikipedia that states that Edgar Allen Poe is generally credited with the first locked room mystery but one person credits an earlier author.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locked-...

[Ella]

Janet wrote: "I have copied a link from Wikipedia that states that Edgar Allen Poe is generally credited with the first locked room mystery but one person credits an earlier author.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wik..."


Thanks. That makes much more sense. As inventive as Agatha Christie is, it seemed just way too late for that little tidbit to be true. Thank you for doing what I, clearly, should have done myself. Back later to talk about the actual book!

[Linda]

Ella wrote: "Janet wrote: "I have copied a link from Wikipedia that states that Edgar Allen Poe is generally credited with the first locked room mystery but one person credits an earlier author.

https://en.wik..."

Yes, most people cite Poe's as the first.
Some really hate this type of mystery, because they believe that the clues should be laid out they way they are in the Holmes stories, so that the reader can come up with his/her own conclusions. While I wait for the students to get the Spanish-language books ordered online, we watch the film to discuss this as an example of the Golden Age (there aren't too many of them in Latin America, those lean more toward the hard-boiled and thrillers).

[Ella]

I don't know that I'd want every mystery I read to be like this, but there's nothing I hate about it.

I was a little maybe put off is too strong, but somehow uncomfortable with the massive info dump at the end, though I can't see how you'd keep the mystery if you left clues throughout. I did, actually, think it was him but then when he "died" I figured I was wrong. Apparently I wasn't, I was just led to believe I was!

[Linda]

Ella wrote: "I don't know that I'd want every mystery I read to be like this, but there's nothing I hate about it.

I was a little maybe put off is too strong, but somehow uncomfortable with the massive info d..."

Same here......of course, today, they'd all be looking at the wound more carefully, etc., and someone would have pointed out that they hadn't heard any gunshots.......but for the time it was written, it was a change of pace.......only on an island could this take place these days, and island with no cell service......

[NancyJ, Moderator]

Thank you to Janet for facilitating this discussion, and thanks to everyone for participating. The discussion threads will remain open, and they are moving to the Past Group Reads 2019 folder.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...