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April 2019 Group Read: The Circular Staircase, by Mary Roberts Rinehart
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Roberta
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Apr 12, 2019 08:27AM
I just joined this group yesterday and am intrigued by the selection. Since I’m stuck on Jury Duty, it’ll keep my mind occupied.
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Patty wrote: "Lisa, I love that, “Sorry I got a lease.”.":) lol thanks
Nancy wrote: "I think you're right, Lisa. Stubborn and curious, that's our Rachel."Yes, good stuff!
Mod
Welcome!! It's a bit of an out-of-the-ordinary sort of read but if you like older mysteries it's pretty fun
Finally, I started this and I sort of did a double take upon reading on p.8 "the winter Gertrude came out". I know what she meant, but my how the meaning of that phrase has changed since 1908!
Mod
:)
Nancy wrote: "Chris wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Also relevant to the time period, some pretty bracing racist text - yikes Are you referring to the way the character & dialogue of Thomas is portrayed? (I'm only on chap ..."I agree. Rinehart is only reflecting the time in which the book was written. In 1908, the term African American was not being used. Jesse Jackson began advocating for the use of that term in the 1980s. The more disparaging comments (and even those are not coarse) are made by uninformed individuals in the story and Mrs. Rinehart (through Miss Innes' voice) disagrees with them and has many kind things to say about Thomas.
I've read other books that were much more overt (i.e. "Huckleberry Finn") and other works where I REALLY wasn't expecting to find racism ("Peter Pan" of all things). I did catch them in "The Circular Staircase", but found them to be more of a hiccup of the time than anything.
I was VERY surprised by this book! I had heard of Mary Roberts Rinehart, but didn't realize that she wrote mystery novels. All this time I thought that Agatha Christie wrote the first Cozy Mystery, but this predates Miss Marple's first appearance by 19 years!The relationship that Rachel has with her maid, Libby, was probably one of my favorite parts of the book. I haven't read any of P.G. Wodehouse's Jeeves and Wooster stories, but I can imagine they may be similar. Please let me know, those of you who have read any of those, if that is correct or not.
Thank you for selecting this book! I'm looking forward to future book selections and discussions!
Mod
There's also Agatha Christie and Dorothy Sayers -- their books are loaded with anti-Semitism.
Or for that matter, Nancy Drew:
https://electricliterature.com/the-no...
the list goes on.
Mod
I was surprised at how delightful this book turned out to be. I'm happy you enjoyed it!! Not all of her books are like this, sadly, but some are pretty good. We could arrange a Mary Roberts Rinehart buddy read at some point, if anyone's interested.
Talking about racism—well kind of— I’m currently reading a Margaret Millar book where a character has called the train porter the “n” word as well as “Rastus”. Had to look that one up; it is a derogatory term for a Black man, one characterizing him as the stereotypical happy Black man in minstrel shows. Originated from the first Uncle Remus book. Anyways, the book I’m reading was written in 1942, and, to me, this language is much more racist than that from The Circular Staircase. The character is a rich man, and not a very nice man (he may be our upcoming murder victim). The porter is nonplussed (how else would he react in a book written by a white woman?).
My question usually is, when I read small exchanges like this in a book, why does an author feel the need to add terms like this in situations like this, but not any other derogatory terms in situations that don’t involve different races, such as rapists, vile women, etc.?
had a similar experience when reading P.G. Wodehouse when the n word appeared suddenly and for no real reason. Yes at the time no one (at least white people) would’ve thought much of it but it ruined my enjoyment. Unlike Huck Finn where it was part of the story, casual racism in literature does detract, especially where the author makes no effort to address it after bringing it up.
Microdcm, that’s when I realize how sheltered I am. In my twenties, I had an elderly couple who were in their seventies who constantly used the “n” word. I taught in an inner city school, so the wife thought I’d be receptive—I guess—to her thoughts and ideas. I finally told her I didn’t want to hear any of that anymore (gulp!), and she called me ‘one of those(?)’. She did stop, but I have to tell you, it was the first time in my life I had ever heard anyone use that word to my face.
I friend just posted this comment on my review of this book. I love reading these books from the past, with the understanding that the past is not always a comfortable place to visit.
Considering the discussion we are having I thought it was very apropos.
Mod
I love reading these books from the past, with the understanding that the past is not always a comfortable place to visit.
Consideri..."
Exactly. And when I post about an older book like this one with racist comments/ethnic slurs in it, I warn potential readers of their presence.
I’m mostly shocked by them; not sure if why they are included. In modern books—and other forms of entertainment—I’m just downright pissed when I come across it
Patty wrote: "Microdcm, that’s when I realize how sheltered I am. In my twenties, I had an elderly couple who were in their seventies who constantly used the “n” word. I taught in an inner city school, so the wi..."My late brother-in-law used it a lot. My sister said that complaining about it didn't seem to help much. However, when my brother and his SO visited and asked him not to use it (politely) he stopped - at least while we were there.
Patty wrote: "Microdcm, that’s when I realize how sheltered I am. In my twenties, I had an elderly couple who were in their seventies who constantly used the “n” word. I taught in an inner city school, so the wi..."Yep, some of my relatives and acquaintances, too, and some of them are not elderly.
Exactly. And when I post about an older book like this one with racist comments/ethnic slurs in it, I warn potential readers of their presenceJust as I warn modern readers about The Man in the Queue and its frequent use of the term 'dago.'
Getting back to other parts of this book, did anyone guess who the perpetrator was before the reveal at the end? I was rather surprised, personally.
I was totally surprised!
Mod
I got that, too, about the difference in writing style. When I joined this group and picked up this book, I wasn't aware of either the book's age or the geographic location. (Wikipedia is very helpful.) But the age really surprised me because it is written in a style equivalent to contemporary domestic mystery writers. There weren't so many 'red herring' instances and just such a wide variety of different plotlines that could have led to the eventual conclusion.
I'm about half-way through and finding it slow going although enjoying it to a degree. I feel a little like I'm watching a B-movie. It's got all the elements, but something is lacking, possibly real narrative tension. She creates anticipation by saying things like "he became important later to the solving of the crime", "I sat down to think and here's what I know and don't know", etc.The writing is fun though and doesn't seem like it was written 111 years ago. I wish I had counted how many times she references "the circular staircase". As in he went up tcs, her rooms were on the other side of the tcs, someone must have been standing at the top of the tcs. :) Perhaps she is using that as a way to create tension, although it just elicits a chuckle for me. And I'm looking up lots of words, as have others. And I love the chapter titles. On another note, it's frustrating that the generic edition I'm reading is full of typos.
Suzy wrote: "I'm about half-way through and finding it slow going although enjoying it to a degree. I feel a little like I'm watching a B-movie. It's got all the elements, but something is lacking, possibly rea..."It has been a while since I read it, but maybe she was using it as a map, both for herself and the reader.
Mod
"She creates anticipation by saying things like "he became important later to the solving of the crime", "I sat down to think and here's what I know and don't know", etc."
I didn't have a problem with that -- I think Jan C's right, that in reiterating the things Rachel knew and the questions she had, she sort of keeps readers on track. When I read I place little tabs on the sides of the pages to mark what I think is important or places where I have questions -- I think her laying things out is sort of like doing the verbal equivalent of that. She really doesn't want you to miss anything. And let's not forget -- this was her first novel.
I appreciated the summaries and such. When we are trying toMake sense if things, we do that ourselves.
I’m reading a book series now, where the main character makes ‘mental notes’ to do things later. I then know that she will either forget (and miss a key piece of evidence) or check it out much much later (and that piece of evidence will
Mean nothing). This device irks me, because if it’s so important, write the damn thing down.
That would irritate me as well. I read a book last month where the plot was so complicated and there SO MANY red herrings, that the author supposedly covered one wall of his office with post-it notes. If your plot is THAT convoluted, how is the Reader supposed to follow along with (let alone enjoy) the plot? The little occasional references in The Circular Staircase, for me, were almost like a bit of foreshadowing. I didn't find it too overwhelming.
Nancy wrote: "Suzy wrote: "I'm about half-way through and finding it slow going although enjoying it to a degree. I feel a little like I'm watching a B-movie. It's got all the elements, but something is lacking,..."Good point about this being her first book and as I mentioned, it does not seem that it was written over 100 years ago. But it does feel lacking somewhat in tension to me with the simple descriptive sentences. Nothing is bothering or overwhelming me and I'm enjoying it, just not compelled to turn pages. I would be more engaged if I had thought to add tabs noting things to pay attention to - good idea! I'll perhaps do that - or maybe keep a list - as a way to keep on track and be more engaged.
It was a serialized story, I think. That affects how it was constructed, too, and if it was a serial, the longer she could keep it going, the more money she made.
Mod
That's true! Maybe she threw in the reminders to keep things in her original readers' minds during the period between publication dates. I didn't even think of that!
Mod
That used to happen to me a LOT (B-movie book syndrome) with these old books, but the more I read the more I got used to it. Right now I'm up to 1921, and some time back finished a book that reads like the biggest B-movie ever. At least Rinehart's people you can visualize -- in the book I'm talking about there was a crusty old hermit, an "East Indian" servant, another pair of East Indians who belonged to a secret brotherhood, and a nosy post office/telephone operator lady. And that's just the beginning of an unbelievable cast of characters! Not to mention that they all lived in rural New York and spoke with southern accents.
Finally!! Finished this a few days ago but haven't had time to comment. I ultimately ended up enjoying it. About 2/3 of the way through it became a page-turner for me. I did guess some of the outcomes, but others not. One of the things I liked the most was Rinehart's sense of humor. The chapter titles, for example. And Rachel late in the book saying she hadn't enjoyed herself so much in a long time - she loved the excitement of it all in the end. I'll port over to the spoiler thread.
Nancy wrote: "I wish I knew another book with someone like Rachel in it -- I'd set it up as a buddy read."I've been meaning to mention the Molly Murphy series by Rhys Bowen. Has some similar characteristics of amateur sleuthing. She's married to a policeman in early 1900's New York City and insinuates herself into murder investigations. I've read a couple of them and really enjoyed.
Mod
I've been meaning to mention the Molly Murphy series by Rhys Bowen. Has s..."
I tried one of those some time back and to me it really reads like modern trying to do the past. Once you invest yourself in older books as I have for the last 3 years now, it's just not the same.
Suzy wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I wish I knew another book with someone like Rachel in it -- I'd set it up as a buddy read."I've been meaning to mention the Molly Murphy series by Rhys Bowen. Has s..."
I think I quit it in the third book.
Mod
I really enjoy books where older women find themselves more fully alive again via an adventure or whatever. I recently read Leonora Carrington's The Hearing Trumpet where the heroine was 92 and she ultimately found purpose in her life at that tender old age.
I’d like some old-woman fiction where the old woman IS NOT:—Cooky
—Under 65
—Matronly
—A beloved spinster
—The town gossip
Any suggestions?
Mod
—Cooky
—Under 65
—Matronly
—A beloved spinster
—The town gossip
Any suggestions?"
Off the top of my head, aside from the Carrington novel I mentioned, I can think of The Blind Assassin, by Margaret Atwood, Quartet in Autumn, by Barbara Pym, and most especially The Buried Giant, by Kazuo Ishiguro. Bring a hanky for the last one.
Mod
The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group
Books mentioned in this topic
The Hearing Trumpet (other topics)The Man in the Queue (other topics)
The Album (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Rhys Bowen (other topics)Rhys Bowen (other topics)
Rhys Bowen (other topics)
