April 2019 Group Read: The Circular Staircase, by Mary Roberts Rinehart

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

and let's not let go of the fact that back when this book was written, our modern anti-racist sensitivities were not evoked as widely as they are today. Yes, it's ugly, and had she written this book in 2019, we'd be utterly horrified, but she wrote it in the first decade of the 1900s.

[Lisa]

Of course, just an observation. Also seemed a bit incongruous with Aunt Ray's other more forward-thinking sensibilities, so it stood out to me.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Lisa wrote: "Of course, just an observation. Also seemed a bit incongruous with Aunt Ray's other more forward-thinking sensibilities, so it stood out to me."

I don't mean to be starting something here, so if my comments bothered anyone, my sincere apologies.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Superstition was the standard of the day, for most Whites and Blacks. Everybody in the lower classes, servants, neighbors, whatever their color in the book thinks the house is haunted, for instance. Only the educated folks, like the doctors, do not believe in the superstitions expressed by the commoners in the novel.

Most people only had a fifth grade education, if any at all. It sounds like a seeing the faults in the other fellow’s culture while ignoring the ones in one’s own. That sentence sounds like a platitude, commonly repeated, doesn’t it?

[Lisa]

Not at all, Nancy. There are just so many interesting points for discussion when reading a book published more a century ago :) So many differences in speech, customs, attitudes, dress, you name it.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Nancy wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Of course, just an observation. Also seemed a bit incongruous with Aunt Ray's other more forward-thinking sensibilities, so it stood out to me."

I don't mean to be starting something ..."

You’re fine, no problem.

: )

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

:)

I can't do laptop emojis. Gah.

[Patty]

Regarding Racism, classism, etc:

Class is a theme here; people belong to different classes, and Miss Innes is pointing this out often. The doctors, old, young, country-like, more urbane;the policeman not being of anyone’s class, being from “the city”; the Armstrongs higher class than the Innes’; the house help; the country club folk; and the people at the inquest. Miss Innes is very mindful of class distinctions herself.

Miss Innes is a bigot, more than anything else. One of her lines—about Thomas still talking and acting like a slave/not far removed from slavery—reminds us of the time-frame of when this book was written. Descriptions of his teeth being white enough so he can be seen in the darkest of night, how he walks, what he says and how he says it, making him skittish and superstitious: a lot of this is done in language that differs from that if any white character.

However, she wrote in a Black character; one who plays an important part. How often do we get to see this?

[Bill]

Patty wrote: "Regarding Racism, classism, etc:

Class is a theme here; people belong to different classes, and Miss Innes is pointing this out often. The doctors, old, young, country-like, more urbane;the police..."

Spoiler comment (view spoiler)[She did take it upon herself to pay for his funeral. (hide spoiler)]

[Chris]

Lisa wrote: "Chapter 3. "As for Thomas and his forebodings, it was always my belief that a Negro is one part thief, one part pigment, and the rest superstition." YOW."

I can see what you are reacting to. I didn't remember that at all, so went back to re-read chap 3. and lo & behold my 1978 edition has edited that to read: "As for Thomas and his forebodings, he was obviously quite superstitious."

[Lisa]

Oh wow!

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Chris wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Chapter 3. "As for Thomas and his forebodings, it was always my belief that a Negro is one part thief, one part pigment, and the rest superstition." YOW."

I can see what you are react..."

Nicely sanitized. Hmmm.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

You know that old phrase "the plot thickens?" The more I read the more that phrase keeps popping into my head. I'm really enjoying the building of not just suspense but true mystery here - meaning I'm just shy of the 60% mark and the armchair detective in me still hasn't figured it out since more things keep happening.

[Chris]

Nancy wrote: "You know that old phrase "the plot thickens?" The more I read the more that phrase keeps popping into my head. I'm really enjoying the building of not just suspense but true mystery here - meaning ..."

Aren't those mysteries the best...the ones you can't figure out yourself? I'm about where you are & I totally agree.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Chris wrote: "Nancy wrote: "You know that old phrase "the plot thickens?" The more I read the more that phrase keeps popping into my head. I'm really enjoying the building of not just suspense but true mystery h..."

If I figure it out before the book's detective/crimesolver, and have to sit there waiting for that person to catch up to me, it does not make for a happy reading experience.

[Patty]

Nancy, I don’t even care who did what. I’m just enjoying the book. The best part—for this old fart—is when, Miss Innes lets us know what day of the week it is, and then reminds us what has happened so far on certain days. If I was trying to figure things out, I bet this would be useful. 😉

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Patty wrote: "Nancy, I don’t even care who did what. I’m just enjoying the book. The best part—for this old fart—is when, Miss Innes lets us know what day of the week it is, and then reminds us what has happened..."

I'm enjoying it too, but as with every mystery/crime novel I read, a part of me gets involved with solving the crime. I can't help myself -- it goes back to Nancy Drew and to my love of mind puzzles. You already know I'm a geek so that last bit shouldn't surprise you!!

[Portia]

Chris wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Chapter 3. "As for Thomas and his forebodings, it was always my belief that a Negro is one part thief, one part pigment, and the rest superstition." YOW."

I can see what you are react..."

Was, "Just as the only good Indian is a dead Indian." (p. clxxxiv) in my copy) edited out as well?

[Portia]

Lisa wrote: "Chapter 3. "As for Thomas and his forebodings, it was always my belief that a Negro is one part thief, one part pigment, and the rest superstition." YOW."


Too much racism in this book for me.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Portia wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Chapter 3. "As for Thomas and his forebodings, it was always my belief that a Negro is one part thief, one part pigment, and the rest superstition." YOW."

Do notice the comment about ..."

I can appreciate that, Portia.

[Patty]

Nancy, I don’t know why I’m not trying to figure out who-did-it with this book. I think it’s because of lines like this (no worries, nothing spoiled here):

“There was no laudanum, and Libby made a terrible fuss when I proposed carbolic acid, just because I had put too much on the cotton once and burned her mouth. I’m sure it never did her any permanent harm; indeed, the doctor said afterward that living on a liquid diet had been a splendid rest for her stomach. But she would have none of the acid, and she kept me awake with her groaning...”

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Patty wrote: "Nancy, I don’t know why I’m not trying to figure out who-did-it with this book. I think it’s because of lines like this (no worries, nothing spoiled here):

“There was no laudanum, and Libby made ..."

:)

That's mild compared to a lot of other writers of the day and the decade before!!

[Patty]

I just find it so funny!

[Chris]

Portia - haven't come across those comments but I am only about 60% done. Although my edition may have edited some of the original dialogue, I do take in consideration the time period in which the book was written (1908). Otherwise, how could one appreciate the masterful work of Mark Twain? Loads of disparaging/racist thinking in Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer! Rinehart brought a lot of 'firsts' to the genre and was considered the American Agatha Christie (although she published 14 years ahead of Christie's first novel) Just my 2 cents.

[Lisa]

I agree. It's bracing to come across, but I try to view it from a sort of anthropological standpoint. I'm still able to appreciate the story and her writing. Many times I read things in old publications that make me nostalgic, or wistful for a time that I didn't even live in. This evokes a sort of opposite feeling for me.

[Susanna - Censored by GoodReads]

Suzy wrote: "I was wondering if there was a movie based on this - it sounds familiar. But after looking the movie is The Spiral Staircase based on a different book."

It was but a very long time ago (1915) and the film no longer exists. CBS produced a version of it for TV in the mid-1950s, with Judith Anderson.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Speaking of racism, I just put up the group poll and didn't realize that I'd headed it "May 2019 group reds: Native American mysteries and crime.". That was a big oops. Changed now.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

Nancy wrote: "Speaking of racism, I just put up the group poll and didn't realize that I'd headed it "May 2019 group reds: Native American mysteries and crime.". That was a big oops. Changed now."

The keyboard Autocorrect function. The 21st century's new headache.

[Lisa]

"I sat up and almost upset my hot water - I always take a cup of hot water, with a pinch of salt, before I get up. It tones the stomach." Wow, I had no idea it did that! Lol, the sensibilities of the era...

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Speaking of racism, I just put up the group poll and didn't realize that I'd headed it "May 2019 group reds: Native American mysteries and crime.". That was a big oops. Changed now."
..."

I would have been so embarrassed if I'd missed that!

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Lisa wrote: ""I sat up and almost upset my hot water - I always take a cup of hot water, with a pinch of salt, before I get up. It tones the stomach." Wow, I had no idea it did that! Lol, the sensibilities of t..."

Eww. LOL

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

@74 %. I adore Rachel, but sometimes she misses the most important clues. Seriously.

[Chris]

Yes, she's quite the character full of conundrums. Just think about her fear of heights but she goes on the roof anyway & then because the wind is blowing she takes the time to re-secure her hairpins!

[Patty]

Also, missing the initials on the suitcase? I was very disappointed with her in that one.

[Chris]

Patty wrote: "Also, missing the initials on the suitcase? I was very disappointed with her in that one."

Oh yes, I forgot about that one. I figured that out right away!

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Patty wrote: "Also, missing the initials on the suitcase? I was very disappointed with her in that one."

That's what prompted my post. I just sat there and said (out loud), "Oh come on, Rachel. Sheesh!"

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Now I'm wondering how many people over the years have called her out for the same thing!!!

[Bill]

Nancy wrote: "Patty wrote: "Also, missing the initials on the suitcase? I was very disappointed with her in that one."

That's what prompted my post. I just sat there and said (out loud), "Oh come on, Rachel. Sh..."

Having said that, she had been through a lot of stress in the preceding days..

[Suzy]

Finally my copy came in at the library! It's an odd edition - no copyright information, no author info, no extras just 199 pages of black type on very white paper in an odd size. Like someone typed this up and printed it on their home system and then had it bound up. Completely lacking personality on its cover and pages. With that said, I can't wait to dig in,

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Suzy wrote: "Finally my copy came in at the library! It's an odd edition - no copyright information, no author info, no extras just 199 pages of black type on very white paper in an odd size. Like someone typed..."

LOL. Generic mystery novel.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Bill wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Patty wrote: "Also, missing the initials on the suitcase? I was very disappointed with her in that one."

That's what prompted my post. I just sat there and said (out loud), "Oh come ..."

Well, that is true. :)

[Suzy]

Nancy wrote: "Suzy wrote: "Finally my copy came in at the library! It's an odd edition - no copyright information, no author info, no extras just 199 pages of black type on very white paper in an odd size. Like ..."

On point, Nancy! I hadn't snapped to that, but exactly!!

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

Suzy wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Suzy wrote: "Finally my copy came in at the library! It's an odd edition - no copyright information, no author info, no extras just 199 pages of black type on very white paper in an o..."

Hurry and catch up!!!

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

finished! Hooray for Rachel!!!

[Lisa]

I find it so amusing that Rachel refuses to relinquish the house to its owner. Deaths in the family? Murders in the house? Sorry, I have a lease.

[Chris]

Lisa wrote: "I find it so amusing that Rachel refuses to relinquish the house to its owner. Deaths in the family? Murders in the house? Sorry, I have a lease."

But wasn't it also that she had nowhere to go? Her house was under extensive renovations?

[Lisa]

That's true. But she says frequently that she's not leaving until she finds out what's going on, so I suspect it has more to do with her stubborn nature than any renovations 😊

[Patty]

Lisa, I love that, “Sorry I got a lease.”.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

I think you're right, Lisa. Stubborn and curious, that's our Rachel.

[Nancy, Co-Moderator]

I wish I knew another book with someone like Rachel in it -- I'd set it up as a buddy read.