April 2019 - Duplicate Death by Georgette Heyer

[Bicky]

Annabel wrote: "but equally I think men are missing a trick if they won't read cosy crime. ."

For example?

[Bicky]

What is the male equivalent of romance?

[Rosina]

Bicky wrote: "Annabel wrote: "I do like a murder plot mixed in with other things, as with Dornford Yates' The House That Berry Built.."

I did not know this author, so good to know."

I don't think The House That Berry Built is really a mystery with other things - it's other things (including an incredibly privileged English family building a house in France, with the French amazed at their superb taste) with other things, though there is a murder. Adele And Co.: A Novel is rather more of a thriller, though not a murder, also set in France. Dornford Yates' novels are much less 'acceptable' nowadays.

Based on them, and other Dornford Yates novels, we explored the French countryside, and the Pyrenees, on many motoring holidays.

[Jackie]

@Rosina, I didn't know her characters were named for places, thank you for that info.

Judy wrote: "I've read two thirds of this now and must admit I'm not enjoying it as much as the other Heyers I've read. There seems to be more of a sour note, somehow, maybe because of the post-war setting in t..."

this is one of my least favorites (but still readable) because of that. I think because our heroine is so hardboiled.

I do love Timothy, though.

[Jackie]

Susan in NC, I have never hear of Betty Neels: do you have a favorite I should start with?

[Emma]

Bicky, do note that I wouldn't necessarily recommend Dornford Yates's novels, because they are appallingly classist, racist and sexist, even for the time he was writing - for me they're a guilty pleasure. His thrillers are, however, really exciting, and the humour in the comic novels mostly holds up. The earlier stuff is better, mostly because the tone isn't tainted by Yates's increasingly misogynistic and reactionary views. Adele and Co. is probably my favourite, since it's a generally successful combination of comic novel and thriller, and mostly steers clear of the more problematic issues in his writing.

[Bicky]

Got it. I will try Adele. Thanks for being so helpful.

[Susan in NC]

Jackie wrote: "Susan in NC, I have never hear of Betty Neels: do you have a favorite I should start with?"

Well, her first book is one of my favorites, Sister Peters in Amsterdam . It was written in the late 1960s so might seem terribly dated, but will you give you a taste for her clean, sweet romances often featuring a plain but hard-working, sensible British nurse, and a rich Dutch doctor (or RDD, as fans refer to the heroes). There is even a funny blog, The Uncrushable Jersey Dress, that spoofs (lovingly) many of Betty’s tried and true plot favorites! She was around for decades and wrote well into her 90s; she wrote about nurses and doctors because she was a retired nurse herself.

[Jemima]

I also love Betty Neels and keep a large stash in my wardrobe for those necessary occasions. I really enjoy the audiobook versions read by Anne Cater. My favorites are The Little Dragon, Damsel in Green and The Silver Thaw.

[Susan in NC]

Jemima wrote: "I also love Betty Neels and keep a large stash in my wardrobe for those necessary occasions. I really enjoy the audiobook versions read by Anne Cater. My favorites are The Little Dragon, Damsel in ..."

Oh, thanks for the tip, I’ve never tried her on audiobook! Those are good titles, too!

[Bicky]

Annabel, I was serious which cosy crime series would you recommend?

[Susan in NC]

Bicky wrote: "Annabel, I was serious which cosy crime series would you recommend?"

I know you’re asking Annabel, but I enjoy Elizabeth Peters’ Amelia Peabody historical mystery series (Victorian era cozy and humorous - set largely in Egypt on archeological digs), and Charlotte Macleod’s Professor Peter Shandy (set in Massachusetts at a small agricultural college) and Sarah Kelling (set in Boston) mysteries. Both wrote mostly in the 1970s and 1980s and are dead now, but I think their writing was clever and witty!

[Sandy]

I love the Amelia Peabody series, though more for the family and the archaeology than the mystery. The author was an actual archaeologist.

[Susan in NC]

Sandy wrote: "I love the Amelia Peabody series, though more for the family and the archaeology than the mystery. The author was an actual archaeologist."

Yes, me too - I picked up a used copy of Temples, Tombs & Hieroglyphs: A Popular History of Ancient Egypt , and she really made it accessible and enjoyable. I guess that’s what makes her mysteries cozy - they aren’t gory or violent and they’re character driven.

[Jackie]

Bicky wrote: "Annabel, I was serious which cosy crime series would you recommend?"

I just read The Key, by Patricia Wentworth and really enjoyed it, even though Miss Silver doesn't show up until half way through the book. apparently that is typical of the series: you get the characters set up well and then she comes in to solve the murder.

we are talking about the Miss Silver series in the retroreads group, some have said the early ones weren't as good but then they keep getting better.
I want to read more of them, I liked Miss Silver.

[Bicky]

I have read Wentworth many years earlier but is her series cosy? I mean even Jane Marple is not cosy, let alone a private detective.

[Jackie]

you might be right, I even put in my review it's not a cozy. It was just on my mind so I shared.

[Bicky]

Jackie wrote: "you might be right, I even put in my review it's not a cozy. It was just on my mind so I shared."

Thanks because it reminded me of another writer to be read.

[Bicky]

Susan in NC wrote: "Bicky wrote: "Annabel, I was serious which cosy crime series would you recommend?"

I know you’re asking Annabel, but I enjoy Elizabeth Peters’ Amelia Peabody historical mystery series (Victorian ..."

I was aware of Elizabeth Peters but did not know that she is cosy. I am noting down the three names and will be trying out each one of them.

Thanks.

[Bicky]

Following the discussion here, I decided out of idle curiosity to look up Betty Neels and discover that she started writing after retirement (first published at age 59) and ends up writing 134 books!

I have to read at least one of her books, romance or not.

[Susan in NC]

Bicky wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Bicky wrote: "Annabel, I was serious which cosy crime series would you recommend?"

I know you’re asking Annabel, but I enjoy Elizabeth Peters’ Amelia Peabody historical myster..."

I guess I have a loose personal description of cozy as mysteries that aren’t gory or bloody, and put more emphasis on a recurring cast of characters and often include some humor.

I hope you enjoy Betty Neels, she’s an old stand-by for me - and yes, she had quite an impressive output of books, especially as she started writing after retirement!

[Bicky]

Susan in NC wrote: "Bicky wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Bicky wrote: "Annabel, I was serious which cosy crime series would you recommend?"

I know you’re asking Annabel, but I enjoy Elizabeth Peters’ Amelia Peabody his..."

I have been reading the Sherriff Dan Rhodes series by Bill Crider and they would fit your description of cosy.

I have been having a lot of fun even though the books have a lot of stock elements - the same description of characters in book after book, the hero always getting stupidly beaten up/shot twice. Despite this the books are enjoyable because they have a strong sense of humor, sometimes the mysteries are not bad, one gets a description of Texas (quaint in the good sense) not generally available in other books and best of all they are as far removed from darkness as is possible when the main theme is murder.

I would recommend that the series be read in order even though the mystery level improves from book 8 Winning Can Be Murder. Yes, Bill Crider was a prolific writer and this is not the only series he wrote.

[Rosina]

Susan in NC wrote: "I guess I have a loose personal description of cozy as mysteries that aren’t gory or bloody, and put more emphasis on a recurring cast of characters and often include some humor.."

Based on that, can I recommend Iain Pears' Italian art history detective series, starting with The Raphael Affair. They're not gory, or Golden Age, but they have a recurring cast, and humour, as well as a lot of art history!

Or Sarah Caudwell's Hilary Tamar series, often epistolary (is that the right word?') - a lot of fun, with young barristers getting into problems and needing Professor Tamar's help to get out. Starting with Thus Was Adonis Murdered.

[Jill]

Jackie wrote: "Bicky wrote: "Annabel, I was serious which cosy crime series would you recommend?"

I just read The Key, by Patricia Wentworth and really enjoyed it, even though Miss Silver doesn't show up until h..."

We read Grey Mask as a buddy read in 2017 Here are the Threads:-
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Maybe you could nominate one for our next choice of future reads

[Bicky]

Thanks Rosina for some other suggestions to this wonderful thread.

[Susan in NC]

Bicky wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Bicky wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Bicky wrote: "Annabel, I was serious which cosy crime series would you recommend?"

I know you’re asking Annabel, but I enjoy Elizabeth Peters..."

Thank you!

[Susan in NC]

Rosina wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "I guess I have a loose personal description of cozy as mysteries that aren’t gory or bloody, and put more emphasis on a recurring cast of characters and often include some humor..."

Thank you, I’ve seen the first author, and will definitely give them a look, that sounds like a perfect series for me! I have read some of the earlier Sarah Caudwell series - I think it could time for a reread, those were fun as I recall - it’s been several years. I remember the paperbacks issued here had great Gorey-type covers!

[Annabel]

Bicky wrote: "What is the male equivalent of romance?"

Westerns? Or more likely, those hard, testosterone-fuelled thrillers full of gadgets and toughness with red and black covers.

[Judy]

I asked my husband about this, and he said possibly Dan Brown and Ken Follett etc?

[Annabel]

Rosina wrote: "Bicky wrote: "Annabel wrote: "I do like a murder plot mixed in with other things, as with Dornford Yates' The House That Berry Built.."

I did not know this author, so good to know."

I don't think..."

Yes, Dornford Yates is difficult to defend these days. Heaps of casual racism, women put on a pedestal but not allowed to do anything, and often bizarre plots in which nothing much happens. Maybe they buy an attractive biscuit tin or one of the dogs gets lost. But I have a sneaking nostalgic fondness for them all the same.

There's an excellent book called Clubland Heroes Clubland Heroes: A Nostalgic Study of Some Recurrent Characters in the Romantic Fiction of Dornford Yates, John Buchan and Sapper about Sapper, Buchan and Dornford Yates which analyses their books very perceptively.

[Annabel]

Jill wrote: "Jackie wrote: "Bicky wrote: "Annabel, I was serious which cosy crime series would you recommend?"

I just read The Key, by Patricia Wentworth and really enjoyed it, even though Miss Silver doesn't ..."

I'm so sorry, I have been offline for a couple of days and completely missed all these questions about cosy crime series. I think Patricia Wentworth would be my top choice - some of her plots don't bear much analysis but I love them for their characters, settings and all the period detail about clothes, foods, houses, etc.

I also love Christie of course - not all her books are cosy, but lots are. And I count Perry Mason as cosy, perhaps unreasonably. And in modern series, I do love the Dandy Gilver 1920s series by Catriona McPherson, although some of them are a little dark at times.

[Annabel]

Bicky wrote: "I have read Wentworth many years earlier but is her series cosy? I mean even Jane Marple is not cosy, let alone a private detective."

I would definitely define Patricia Wentworth as cosy. So how should it be defined?! For me, anything Golden Age that isn't too dark qualifies as cosy so perhaps my thinking is too broad....

[Bicky]

Annabel wrote: "... For me, anything Golden Age that isn't too dark qualifies as cosy so perhaps my thinking is too broad.... "

Then why not the whole of Christie etc.? But a liking for 'not too dark' works for me. Question then is what is it that men are not reading?

[Annabel]

I suppose some of Christie is too dark to be cosy. And Then There Were None and Endless Night, for instance.

I think men are less prone to read crime novels which are promoted as fun, eccentric, cosy, clever, charming, amusing... Leaning towards those marketed with adjectives like hard, grim, gruesome, blood-spattered, sleazy, etc instead. But then, the latter are also very popular with women, so what do I know?

Sometimes contemporary cosy crime can veer towards chick-fic, as with Rebecca Tope's series. (She says without having read it.) And perhaps men feel that's just too frivolous? But again, I'm guessing! I am married to a man who doesn't read at all so have no real-life evidence to draw on.

[Bicky]

Annabel wrote: "I suppose some of Christie is too dark to be cosy. And Then There Were None and Endless Night, for instance.

I think men are less prone to read crime novels which are promoted as fun, eccentric, c..."

Well I am not thrilled by any one of hard, grim, gruesome, blood-spattered, sleazy, etc.

I will also not be put off by any of your good terms.

However, I will be put off by knitting needles, bakeries, cats etc.

[Susan in NC]

Bicky wrote: "Annabel wrote: "I suppose some of Christie is too dark to be cosy. And Then There Were None and Endless Night, for instance.

I think men are less prone to read crime novels which are promoted as f..."

I agree - sometimes I see fluffy cozy covers - knitting, cats, bakeries, tea shops- I like all of those things, but I’m afraid mysteries set exclusively around and about them will not be entertaining, or will not be a solid mystery.

[Bicky]

Susan in NC wrote: "Bicky wrote: "Annabel wrote: "I suppose some of Christie is too dark to be cosy. And Then There Were None and Endless Night, for instance.

I think men are less prone to read crime novels which are..."

Or working too hard to be cute?

[Susan in NC]

Bicky wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Bicky wrote: "Annabel wrote: "I suppose some of Christie is too dark to be cosy. And Then There Were None and Endless Night, for instance.

I think men are less prone to read cr..."

Exactly!

[Bicky]

Rosina wrote: "....Or Sarah Caudwell's Hilary Tamar series, often epistolary (is that the right word?') - a lot of fun, with young barristers getting into problems and needing Professor Tamar's help to get out. Starting with Thus Was Adonis Murdered. ..."

I have started Adonis and finding it to be a great read. So, thanks for the suggestion.

[Judy]

So far I'm enjoying Chocolate Chip Cookie Murder which involves both a bakery and a cat. I'd been thinking I would like to find a good series with this type of cosy setting - hoping this one will be it.

[Judy]

Worded that post slightly wrongly - I'm sure there are a lot of good cosy series, but I meant I wanted to find one to follow through, where I can enjoy getting to know the characters.

[Jemima]

Have you tried the Tea Shop Mysteries by Laura Childs? I love them. Also The Oxford Tearoom Mysteries by H.Y Hanna.

[Jill]

Judy wrote: "Worded that post slightly wrongly - I'm sure there are a lot of good cosy series, but I meant I wanted to find one to follow through, where I can enjoy getting to know the characters."

Have you tried Simon Brett. The Feathering series.

[Judy]

Thanks Jemima and Jill. I do like the Simon Brett books - I didn't get on with the first of the Oxford Tearoom mysteries, but forget why now. I haven't tried Laura Childs.

I was also looking for something set outside the UK for a bit of armchair travel, so the Hannah Swenson book is working well for that. But so far I'm finding the heroine a bit too opinionated (ie her opinions aren't the same as mine!) and old-fashioned for my liking - she also keeps on handing out dozens of cookies to everyone in sight while complaining that people are putting on weight!!

[Judy]

On the old-fashioned bit, I am slightly wondering if the book is supposed to be set at an earlier period and I'm being unfair?