EVERYONE Has Read This but Me - The Catch-Up Book Club discussion
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[ARCHIVES] BOTM SUGGESTIONS
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BOTM Theme Discussion
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Initial Proposal: (view spoiler)Update: I put the initial proposal under spoiler tags to get more general feedback such as:
Do you want to do themes again?
If so, how often?
What types of themes?
I am not really understanding this. Will it replace the current system? Or will we then nominate books from modern classic, classica and catch up?What is the purpose?
It makes it sound like we will become like all the other groups here on Good Reads.
You know I am against limiting choices. This sounds like it will
The main reason this group has so many members is that we have unlimited choice.
I have to agree w/ Renee. I agree that sometimes we overlook books that aren't quite as popular but are important, for example books that are huge in other countries but marginal in US/UK. But if someone wants to read those, I'm sure they can find a group that has that focus, for example an Around the World or Armchair Traveler group.The reason that I'm part of this particular group is because I'm interested in seeing what choices float to the top when there are no restrictions (except date of publication).
Iow, what Renee said.
(Sorry, your suggestion looks good, just, not for this group.)
I think the Around the world challenge provides an opportunity to read or discover literature from other countries. I didn't participate in the theme idea the last time around and I did notice that the polls from the theme month were significantly lower in terms of participation than other months.
I agree with Renee and Cheryl's comments.
Just want to voice that I agree with the comments from Laura, Renee and Cheryl. This group has a great vibe because of the openness of choice. I think it's a good idea but other groups are already doing it, and it limits variety.
I agree with Renee, Cheryl, Laura and Betsy. The title of this group is Everybody Has Read This But Me - The Catch-Up Book Club. There are other groups that have more of an Indie focus or focus on literature written in languages other than English. The fact is that the books that everyone else has read aren't those things. I do love to read those books too, but I didn't join *this* group to read those books.
Not having themes is definitely on the the table.Frequency and level of restriction is also open for discussion.
We had two more restrictive themes last year, which were the Japanese and Non-Fiction. The Japanese one was nominated for and voted on, and based on feedback, the results are mixed. Yes, the voting was lower, but the participation, while not high, was certainly comparable to other months. The nonfiction seemed to be fairly popular and well received.
There have also been multiple months with suggested themes, such as “Back to School” in August 2017 and Horror in October. Those were looser in application and more of a suggestion. We definitely ended up with nominations that didn’t fit the category. This is a way themes can be applied.
I also like no themes. It is certainly easier to organize. I do think themes can add variety to the selections, though, so I am supportive of exploring options on how best to implement that. There were a couple of questions on when we would or if would we do themes again. In that regard, I am not keen on having month to month nomination threads to select themes so prefer some sort of plan to work off of.
This looks like an unnecessary complication that will create a lot of discussion over choice of themes but then restrict choice of books. Only 4 themes for a year? This seems boring & repetitive. I support the comments from Renee & others above. Sorry to be negative, but I don’t think it’s a good idea for this group.
Hello Trish - there has been enough feedback that we will not use the proposal I listed, but just a point of clarification, there would be no repetition except the “no theme” months which would be four months in a year under this proposal. Four months would be the subject/genre/topic theme (four different ones) and four months would be cultural (four different ones).So if we were to put it in place starting in July, it could look like this:
July - Children’s Literature theme
August - Russian Literature
September - No theme
October - Mystery/Suspense theme
November - British Literature
December - No theme
I understand that the proposal I put out is not well received, but I would like to know if there are other ideas/preferences for themes. This is the place to suggest them.
Joanna Loves Reading wrote: "I understand that the proposal I put out is not well received, but I would like to know if there are other ideas/preferences for themes. This is the place to suggest them."Thank you for this, Joanna, & for your clarification. I’m sorry if you are disappointed, as you must have spent time planning the proposal. It’s good that you are trying new ideas to get people more involved.
Joanna please know that I love all the work you do for this group. I appreciate your effort. Thank you
Some of the best conversations have revolved around a theme rather than a specific read, particularly when the variety of perspectives are voiced. I love it when eras are selected. An example of an era rich with themes and with novels, nonfiction and the birth/setting of many of those we consider classics:1866-1917 The era between the end of the Civil War/War Between the States and just before the beginning of WWI. This era was before we had a middle class, there was a huge exodus from the south to the north by African-Americans, ramped extermination of the American Indian life/culture, huge import of immigrants by industry, industry blossomed, huge urban population growth, food became an industry, homesteading flourished, and so much more.
Thinking about this issue, I wonder if Joanna’s suggestion could be modified to suit everyone. We currently nominate then vote on 3 books for each month. There is no compulsion to read any of these books, but I assume some members read all of them - it’s a personal choice. My suggestion would be to continue this exactly as it is now. But in addition to select themes in advance, & in certain months only have a theme for which members can select their own “4th book” to read as well or instead of the group’s chosen books. Those who don’t want the theme can ignore it & choose from the usual 3 book selection, while those interested in the theme can read their own choice of themed book & possibly get recommendations for other books they may enjoy.
This could solve the problem of restricting choice. But I realise it might reduce discussion of the 3 chosen books if fewer people read them.
Using Joanna’s example (Message 10 above), our books could be
July:
1 Bookshelf Catch-Up
2 Classics
3 Modern Classic/Popular
4 Children’s Literature theme
Trisha your suggestion gives even more choice. I like that.I am wondering what goal the themes provide. Is it to get more discussion or more choice. If the goal is more discussion adding a fourth discussion seems counter productive.
Right now only a couple people participate in the discussions. Many read along but don't respond. This works for them. Would enough people respond to keep four discussions going?
I do not mind a theme book of the month once in a while, but most of the time, I prefer not having themes.
I agree with Manybooks, I'd prefer not having themes although a theme once in a while would be fine.
I prefer not having themes at all in this group. I think it somewhat defeats the purpose of "everyone has read this but me" by limiting choices too much.
Renee, Manybooks, Satrina & Kimberly - thank you for your comments. My suggestion was only to try to widen the choice after the earlier discussion about themes. I’m happy for the group to continue as it is now if that’s what people prefer.I’m not sure about themes - they are used in another of my groups & I have mixed feelings about their effectiveness. When people participate they usually recommend books, which is useful as it has helped me find books I wouldn’t have read otherwise. But I usually prefer discussion about specific books.
I like the theme idea, but outside of or in addition to our monthly reads. The reason I joined this group was that it is focused on classic reads, so changing that focus might affect my interest in the group.That said, I certainly might be interested in themes as additional monthly reads or as a challenge. Specifically, genre and/or topic based themes.
What would not appeal to me would be language related themes. As I only speak English and live in a relatively small community, books written in other languages are not readily available to me. This includes works translated into English that are not highly popular in the United States. Such challenges are wonderful and might appeal to a lot of people, but they just do not work for me.
Great thoughts all! A couple thoughts as a result:Cultural themes: I agree that the Around the World Challenge is an outlet for that need, so let’s table that. If we feel the want in future, we can discuss again.
Subject/Topic/Genre Theme: Definitely needs a better word than Subject/Topic/Genre. But, if we have themes, they would be more in line with this type of theme. For the most part, the discussion has been in favor of or leaning toward no themes with regards to the BOTM selections. If we do themes in future, it would need to be seldom. Maybe twice a year or something. However, I think no themes is the prevailing sentiment with regards to BOTM selections.
4th book for BOTM within a specific theme idea: this is intriguing and maybe on the route we could go if we decide to go anywhere new. Rather than a BOTM, maybe we could do a themed Buddy Read? And it wouldn’t need to be tied to a specific month. For example, maybe we could have a buddy read of Gone With the Wind over a couple of months for a War theme. There would be details to work out, but what I like about it is that it could be tested without committing. We don’t have specific way we handle Buddy reads so if we don’t like the idea, it could be one and done easily enough.
Renee wrote: "Joanna please know that I love all the work you do for this group. I appreciate your effort. Thank you"Trisha wrote: "Joanna Loves Reading wrote: "I understand that the proposal I put out is not well received, but I would like to know if there are other ideas/preferences for themes. This is the place to suggest th..."
Thanks ladies! I am not disappointed and appreciate the support. I sort of wish I had started the thread in more open-ended way, but the feedback has been good and the conversation has been thoughtful and enlightening regardless.
Maybe instead of a "theme" like children's lit, we could specify a time period the book was written. For example For the classic book specify a book written in the early 1800's or the 1920's etc. For the Modern classic we could specify a book written in the 70's, 80's etc. Then we still have the main purpose of the group but still have it limited to a time period written which is kind of a theme.Or we could make the theme idea into a challenge.
What if, like with most periodic decisions in this group, people vote? I agree with a lot of the people in this thread that themes should be limited, if enacted at all. One possible way to do this would be to have the possibility of a theme once every 4 months (or whatever time frame is most agreeable). But one of the choices could be "no theme." A sample poll could look something like this for a given 4-month period, say for September-December:
Russian Lit
19th Century Lit
Horror/Suspense
BCE books/plays
Children/YA Lit
No Theme
And whichever of the 6 options above gets the most votes is the theme (or lack of) for that 4-month period. The particular month that the theme is applied to could be first, last, or even could be decided by a separate poll.
Thoughts?
Russian Lit
19th Century Lit
Horror/Suspense
BCE books/plays
Children/YA Lit
No Theme
And whichever of the 6 options above gets the most votes is the theme (or lack of) for that 4-month period. The particular month that the theme is applied to could be first, last, or even could be decided by a separate poll.
Thoughts?
I really like the idea of buddy reads over a few months for longer books. I am still finishing I am a Cat. I would have loved to be reading it at thw same pace as the group. I just couldn't finish it in the month
Renee wrote: "I really like the idea of buddy reads over a few months for longer books. I am still finishing I am a Cat. I would have loved to be reading it at thw same pace as the group. I just couldn't finish it in the month"I totally agree with Renee. Buddy reads sound awesome, and especially for longer books.
I really like the idea of a themed buddy read over a longer period of time.
Brian wrote: "What if, like with most periodic decisions in this group, people vote? I agree with a lot of the people in this thread that themes should be limited, if enacted at all. One possible way to do this ..."I really like the idea of having “no theme” as an option in a theme poll. It is also something that could be tried out without committing to a themed month. I think though it would need to be for a specific month.
Renee wrote: "I really like the idea of buddy reads over a few months for longer books. I am still finishing I am a Cat. I would have loved to be reading it at thw same pace as the group. I just couldn't finish ..."I like paced Buddy reads. I think they can have better discussions associated with them.
I love Trisha's suggestion, I would really enjoy having an additional book a month based on a theme tat we can choose to read or not, whilst retaining the (whilst retaining the "everyone has read this but me" idea). This is my favourite book club group by far and the one I always find myself happily prioritising, so an additional book would be exciting. Regarding Theme suggestions:
Goodreads Award Winner
Series
Popular in the 90s/00s/etc
Epic fantasy/any other specific genre
Movie/TV Show Adaptation
Author's Favourite Book
Retelling
Books that start with a random letter (A/B/C/etc.)
Extremely intelligent character
Time Travel
War Fiction (Historical)
From a Top 100 Must-Read Books List
5-Star Prediction
Pink/Blue/Red Cover or Beautiful Cover
The themes can be broad enough so that they aren't very limiting, but still add an added fun aspect to the challenge.
Thank you for making this awesome group!
I often don't want to read any of the three chosen books, but I do like this club, so having a fourth each month to consider would be fun for me. Especially if we chose themes that actually have something to do with the content of the book (I'm not fond of selecting based on cover color or random words in the title.)
Hey Cheryl, just out of interest, why is it that you generally don't want to read the three books that are chosen? What would need to change for you to have a better chance of reading along? Thanks
Hi!Well, I can't really think of any change to be made, except possibly adding themes.
It's simply that I have to actually want to read the book because it looks like an interesting book (not simply because it's popular), and I've read most of the popular books that interest me.... Sometimes I'll reread with the group, and sometimes I'll discover something new, and that's enough for me.
Ok, there is a *huge* change that could interest me... but it would change the group so much that I'm not advocating it.If we could choose among a related set of books each month, I'd probably find one to read.
For example, one month we could all choose to read one or more books by a popular author, for example Jodi Picoult or Stephen King.
Another month we could all choose to read on the subject of, for example, families who lost a member to military service, or, for another example, on the subject of being a large-animal veterinarian.
Another month we could all read a play that was made into a musical. Or a book that was made into movie that was remade at least twice (for example Little Women, but not Harry Potter). Or a book that was published during WWII that is contemporary & realistic (not SF or fantasy or historical) but doesn't actually talk about the war.
That is to say, I'm brainstorming ideas that are like themes... but I'm making them narrow so that hopefully some of us would wind up reading the same books. But even if the themes were left broader, we could still have discussions about "reader's choice" sets of books. I've seen it done in other groups.
Cheryl wrote: "Ok, there is a *huge* change that could interest me... but it would change the group so much that I'm not advocating it.If we could choose among a related set of books each month, I'd probably fi..."
Hi Cheryl, have you seen the group Play Book Tag? It's popular with heavy readers who are looking for new book ideas and challenges. Each month they pick a different shelf tag, and we each read whatever we want that fits that category, and write a review. This month the tag is "beautiful" and there were more than 10000 books to choose from (including The Book Thief, All the Light we Cannot See, Memoir of a Geisha, Song of Achilles, Everything Everything, etc.) I went from reading 3 books a month to 12 since I joined the group. I'm still active in my own group and irl groups, but I coordinate when possible.
Joanna Loves Reading wrote: "Hi all!The purpose of this thread is for discussion of future BOTM themes. We haven’t had themes for about a year, and hopefully through this discussion, we’ll have a plan and guide going forward..."
Joanna I love that you're trying to mix it up a little to make it more fun. I support the idea in having occasional themes. Maybe just twice a year to add some variety when we need it the most.(Perhaps August and February.)
One thing that I always liked about this group is that there was generally no one genre that dominated others. However, that also means that we usually stick with general literature almost by default. There are some popular genre books that keep getting nominated but they don't quite make it the cut because our members aren't as familiar with titles in other genres (or books that aren't taught in schools). Watership Down comes to mind. It's more popular than a lot of the modern books we pick, but its' title is misunderstood by many of us.
I do think it might be nice to occasionally pick a genre or similar theme, and find out what the most popular are in that genre. If nothing else, it exposes people to new ideas. Maybe try it once in the modern category, and once in the older classics. Some groups have the members nominate themes, and vote on the themes. I think that would work well with this group.
I wouldn't do international themes, since it conflicts with your mission, and you have the other challenge. The Japanese theme failed because it was too narrow and because both reads were involved at the same time. Participation in voting was heavy, but few people actually read the books. I think Russia is too narrow too, and that set of literature is well served by the many classics groups on gr.
I really like what you did last summer when you focused on books that were old enough and popular enough to be public access. Maybe you could do that again, or just adjust the date cutoff for the Classic Read for one month.
Yes, I tried to play book tag, but it wasn't the right group for me.I do like the idea of 'genres' instead of 'themes' per se.
Hi Rose, Cheryl & Nancy,Sorry for the delay in responding. This and next month are a bit rough for me in terms of time.
Re: 4th book. Right now, I think we’re leaning toward having an occasional or even regular buddy read. The Buddy Read books would likely be themed and voted/decided on in-thread rather than through a poll so it would be more discussion focused and decided on by the discussers. Looking at late summer or fall for this.
We’re also planning on some one-month challenges over the summer. One will be Genre-focused, though it is going to be broad. They are sort of test challenges to see how the rules work in practice and how well-received they are. A year-long genre/theme focused challenge may be something we do for next year also.
I'm a bit late to the party, but...I think a fourth (optional) book with themes is fine.
I think if we had a "suggested" theme when voting it could help. This way nominations could be guided towards a theme but not forced.
My take on this group's "mission", as it were, is more about making sure everyone has read the popular books (classic and otherwise). My next suggestion I think is very interesting, but not really towards this mission. I think the best discussion happens when we read similar books (e.g. two books by same author. Two books from different authors but from same country. Two memoirs from people who lived in roughly the same area / time period. Etc.). Again, I think it would be *interesting* and would promote discussion but not necessarily in line with my interpretation of what this group is for. Thoughts?
Jay wrote: "...(e.g. two books by same author. Two books from different authors but from same country. Two memoirs from people who lived in roughly the same area / time period. Etc.)..."I like this.
It just occurred to me that we could have 'clubs' within this group. Optional of course. Just like the challenges are for ppl who like them, and they're kind of a smaller group inside this big one... we could have smaller groups for people who want to read along Jay's idea, or on themes, for example.
I agree with Jay and Cheryl, both are great ideas.
Cheryl wrote: "Yes, I tried to play book tag, but it wasn't the right group for me.I do like the idea of 'genres' instead of 'themes' per se."
I mainly mentioned it because it's one model of an idea that's being discussed here. There might be one aspect that could be adapted to a different group. Everyone reads different books on a theme, and I like it because it has expanded my reading scope. (This month the theme is "retellings" e.g. Circe.)
The culture challenge this year is particularly interesting because we all read a different book from the same culture and write reviews on them. So we can all learn more about that culture.
Jay wrote: "I'm a bit late to the party, but...I think a fourth (optional) book with themes is fine.
I think if we had a "suggested" theme when voting it could help. This way nominations could be guided tow..."
I like that idea. It's similar to a culture challenge I'm in this year. This month we're reading books from Greece (ancient or modern). (There are interesting differences between Song of Achilles and Silence of the Girls, which are both retellings of the Trojan War, from The Iliad.)
I agree that some of the ideas that are being discussed might be beyond the scope of the mission, but this group is so large, it would be nice to have bonus activities for people who get excited about a topic, book, or author. Only a small fraction of members actually participate in the group discussions, and bonus activities might engage more people. They don't have to replace the existing structure, they could supplement it. In other groups I've seen terms such as buddy reads, bonus reads, special interest groups, monthly challenges, deep dives, seasonal events, etc.
Natural follow-ups to Pride and Prejudice could be a discussion of other Jane Austen books, a buddy read, or a discussion of retellings of Pride and Prejudice. A small group of members might agree to each read a different Jane Austen book, (or a book inspired by P&P) and compare notes.
It's common to have an open access folder where members can starts discussions or buddy reads without requiring mod approval. This group has such a folder, but some members think that only mods should be able to start a new topic.
NancyJ wrote: "...this group is so large, it would be nice to have bonus activities for people who get excited about a topic, book, or author. Only a small fraction of members actually participate in the group discussions, and bonus activities might engage more people. They don't have to replace the existing structure, they could supplement it. In other groups I've seen terms such as buddy reads, bonus reads, special interest groups, monthly challenges, deep dives..."Yes!
NancyJ, Cheryl, Jay and Satrina - just letting you know that we are taking note of what you're saying, and there is discussion about possible options, especially Buddy Reads. So we'll get back to you on that!
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The purpose of this thread is for discussion of future BOTM themes. We haven’t had themes for about a year, and hopefully through this discussion, we’ll have a plan and guide going forward. To start, the next post will be a proposal that can adjusted per discussion or nixed altogether if other options are preferred. All opinions welcome as long as they’re expressed in a respectful manner. Thanks all!