The Sword and Laser discussion
How, if at all, have ebooks changed your new book discovery?
Before Amazon, I did what you did, roamed the stores and picked out whatever caught my eye. I also would give pretty much anything a try if it was on the clearance shelf.Then when I started ordering off of Amazon (which was a long long time ago) I used their recommendations, as you did. Now I go off of what people suggest in my goodreads groups, and what is available at my library. Ebooks hasn't really affected in me in any way but that's probably because I still much prefer to hold the book in my hand when I am reading.
Though from time to time I still go to the books store and see what catches my eye, but that usually turns pretty expensive so I only do it sparingly.
I listen to what my friends tell me, and also to what my favorite authors are interested in. That's how I've always been, and as a result, I can say that e-books have not changed my book discovery habits at all.
The biggest thing that changed my book reading habits what actually writing down the titles and authors of books I wanted to read in a Google document, which lets me access it from just about everywhere. This means that I actually read series in order now. Goodreads and the Kindle daily deal mean that I read an awful lot more new authors than I used to. I started out by reading what I found in the library and then seeking out more books by those same authors.
My biggest book discovery tool these days are Twitter and anything Patrick Rothfuss recommends when he reviews books here on Goodreads.I have had a lot of luck following authors that I enjoy on twitter. They talk about books that strike their fancy and that tends to send me down a rabbit hole of new authors and books. Note: this is a dangerous path as it leads to following more and more authors and buying more books than you can read. The end result may be having the world's best library and massive debt. Your millage may vary.
On the other hand Patrick Rothfuss writes the best reviews of books and he has not steered me wrong yet.
Probably the only significant change for me is being able to download the free 10-20% samples. That has made me more willing to give new or unknown authors a try since there is no financial downside.
I'd say goodreads and facebook changed how i found books more than ebooks have. I used to wander the fantasy section at the library, or occasionally the books store... Now I get most of my to reads from our "what are you reading?" thread and from my favorite authors who I follow here and on facebook. I do agree covers no longer play much of a role for me anymore... I tend to read though what the person who posted about it said, then follow the link to get a feel for the reviews.
Sean wrote: "Probably the only significant change for me is being able to download the free 10-20% samples. That has made me more willing to give new or unknown authors a try since there is no financial downside."Sean, I like that, too. I don't tend to read authors. I look for a story that piques my interest, and having a sample to look at before I buy is nice.
Before ebooks, I mostly got recommendations from friends who had been into fantasy longer than I had. there was some wondering around book stores, but not much.Since ebooks came out I have either been reading series as they come out or trying to fill in classic stuff that is only now becoming available digitally. That has been the big benefit of ebooks for me. Reading the old Zorro penny dreadfuls and suchlike without having to find ancient crumbling print copies.
Also, free samples rock!
I was also a bookstore wanderer (and a worker - god, how I loved that job!). Spent many an hour just wandering around. Now, my closest bookstore is a 30 minute drive and I haven't gone there in over a year.Nowadays my Goodreads groups, blogs (Scalzi's Big Idea has been a good source), Twitter, and Amazon's Daily Deals have led me to a lot of new reads. I love the ease of picking a book that suits my mood at the moment and not just what I have already in the house. Also, I used to hate trying to find all the books in a series, which is a non issue with ebooks.
What I use to do, once I got into reading, was I simply read my parents books (mostly fantasy.) After that, I started to read things I had heard of, mostly the classics, which teachers generally had in their classrooms in elementary school.
E-books aren't what changed how I discover new books. I started asking what other people were reading, started reading various authors' blogs, read more from authors we read in classes, and I recently, after 19 years of living, started going ton the library and just looking for things. I also spent most of the weekends of my teenage year in a Half Price Books, until I moved.
That isn't to say e-books haven't helped in other ways, but I don't think they changed how I discover books. (They have certainly made things more accessible, though.)
E-books aren't what changed how I discover new books. I started asking what other people were reading, started reading various authors' blogs, read more from authors we read in classes, and I recently, after 19 years of living, started going ton the library and just looking for things. I also spent most of the weekends of my teenage year in a Half Price Books, until I moved.
That isn't to say e-books haven't helped in other ways, but I don't think they changed how I discover books. (They have certainly made things more accessible, though.)
Sebastian wrote: "What I use to do, once I got into reading, was I simply read my parents books (mostly fantasy.) After that, I started to read things I had heard of, mostly the classics, which teachers generally ha..."Interesting. Although my mom's a reader, our tastes only overlap when it comes to Grisham and Koontz. And, even then, those two authors don't really interest me anymore.
The major change in the past 50 years in the way I pick out books is e-books. Project Gutenberg, eBooks@Adelaide and some others have made books I'd never have had access to before. I've been reading the less know works of Verne and Haggard, for instance. I've found some works that were great fun but very obscure, like the autobiography of a person who "found" lost Shakespeare works and had them preformed. Or the advice of P. T. Barnum on Getting Money. But mostly I've been reading fantastic tales written before Tolkien. George Meredith, William Hope Hodgson, Mary Lafon, Abraham Merritt, are some I've discovered. Bram Stoker, Mary Shelly, William Morris, Andrew Lang and others more well known have plenty of good stories beyond the couple that appear everywhere. Even a large public library wouldn't have all these and I've always felt hesitant about asking for ILL for a book that just sounds like I might enjoy it. Game changer.
David wrote: "The major change in the past 50 years in the way I pick out books is e-books. Project Gutenberg, eBooks@Adelaide and some others have made books I'd never have had access to before. I've been readi..."Nice. Yeah, the long tale is the most awesome part of the Internet.
I'm also a huge fan of gutenberg press. I read Verne that I would never have found; Wells that I hadn't gotten around to reading; even old John W. Campbell. Right now I'm reading the rest of the "D'Artagnan Romances" between "Three Musketeers" and "Man In The Iron Mask" simply because it's so easy. And I would probably never have given "Count of Monte Cristo" a try in physical form, and that book turned out great. Sherlock Holmes, when I took an interest - they were all there. Read a bunch of other Conan Doyle as well.I also want to note that the Kindle itself has made reading easier. I read plenty of books in squintovision as a youngster, but these days I need my print larger. With the Kindle I can pick any font size I like.
However, I'm more likely to scour a library for recent works. I used to buy from used bookstores - the Science Fantasy Bookstore in Cambridge MA was a fave - and those pretty much no longer exist. Prices for ebooks seem a bit high for new works. This means I tend to give newer authors with lower price points a try.
I read samples before I buy now which is awesome. Plus the sheer convenience of the kindle has made me read more. I hate lugging big books around and being able to read easily at the gym has helped me work out more. Also the backlight and larger print on the paperwhite is easier on my eyes (I'm only 27 but I don't wanna squint now and make my already bad eyesight worse).
I like being able to read in bed with the light off. I just adjust my Paperwhite's display so it's not as bright, and it doesn't bother my wife while she's trying to sleep.
L. wrote: "I like being able to read in bed with the light off. I just adjust my Paperwhite's display so it's not as bright, and it doesn't bother my wife while she's trying to sleep."The Paperwhite has been a fantastic resource for those nights when I wake up in the wee hours and can't get back to sleep. I can read to pass the time, and not wake up the spouse.
My primary book discovery mechanism has always been recommendations from other readers, through various means - the "customers who bought this also bought" feature on Amazon, Goodreads, various blogs or websites, but more reliably than anything else, recommendataions from friends. We gather with friends to game a couple of times a month, and there are always book rec's flying around the table.
Once library lending supported Kindle, I returned to my practice of "taste testing" all new authors/series/titles via the library first, before deciding whether or not we needed to own them.
Some time ago I wrote a program that counts science and fantasy words in text files. I can compute what I call the science and fantasy densities of works. It was written in C but I have nearly finished converting it to Python. A density of 1.000 means there is one science or fantasy word per 1000 characters, including spaces and punctuation. That is a little less than two per page.To me it seems very appropriate to apply technology to science fiction.
So I have tested lots of works for their densities and I have noticed that I usually don't care for anything claiming to be science fiction is the density is below 0.200.
Clarke's A Fall of Moondust scores 1.24.
I also do text-to-speech to make mp3 files so I listen to stuff that I would not have time to read.
Karl wrote: "Some time ago I wrote a program that counts science and fantasy words in text files. I can compute what I call the science and fantasy densities of works. It was written in C but I have nearly fi..."Awesome. Spoken like a true programmer. Willing to spend the time to write a program to save time in the future.
Karl wrote: "Some time ago I wrote a program that counts science and fantasy words in text files. I can compute what I call the science and fantasy densities of works. It was written in C but I have nearly fi..."Wow. Very interested in this, Karl. I'm a programmer too, but I work with Java, not C. Where/How do you get your input files for the program?
I wonder if the files available from Amazon when one buys ebooks from them may be processed to get a word count (and if it's legal).
Ebooks really just give me more flexibility and access to my library. I've got a wall full of books, but for me to read The Count of Monte Cristo, or something by Sanderson or Robert Jordan, mostly means reading at home, or lugging a huge book with me on the train. With them on my iPad, I can crank through them, and if I want to check something from an earlier book, it's an easy check.I also take notes in my ebooks where I wouldn't in my paper books. I find the iBooks apps better for it than the Kindle app for reasons I'm not even sure of.
For discovery I rely on this group mostly, plus the Kindle and Audible sales, and I read enough authors that are still writing that I can just see what's coming out and pick them up when they release.
Paolo wrote: "Karl wrote: "Some time ago I wrote a program that counts science and fantasy words in text files. I can compute what I call the science and fantasy densities of works. It was written in C but I h..."First of all, MOBIs (Amazon) and EPUBS (everyone else) are just text files wrapped in XHTML. (http://www.idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub...) So the programming challenge (not really a big challenge at all) would be creating a parser that ignores all non-book text.
Second, if it's LEGAL?!? Don't the rights maximalists win!
a) You bought the book legally - you gave them money for creating a product
b) You are not sharing or otherwise infringing on their ability to make money off this book or future books
c) You are doing this on your own and for your own edification
d) SERIOUSLY!?! Are you willing to accept a status quo in which COUNTING M-F-ING words in a book is illegal? EFF THAT!
e) Even if it is illegal - which I highly doubt - we all break the law all the time. Like speeding on the highway. Which we all do because chances of getting caught on any one day are pretty much nil. No one can see what you're doing on your computer so feel free do count words in books, rip DVDs and BluRays and whatever else you want because there is no way for you to get caught. And, most importantly, you're in the right ethically because you bought the book and you aren't sharing it with the world. You're simply automating what you could do manually by counting.
Reading eBooks has greatly expand my new book discovery, particularly for indie authors. I have subscribed to the following notification services that let me know every day of eBook deals. As a result, I have been exposed to many new authors and books that I would never have encountered in the brick and mortar stores. 1. https://www.bookbub.com
2. http://readcheaply.com/
3. http://www.rifflebooks.com/select/
4. http://eBooksHabit.com
5. www.moreforlessonline.com
6. http://www.ebooksgrowontrees.com
7. http://booksends.com
John wrote: "Reading eBooks has greatly expand my new book discovery, particularly for indie authors. I have subscribed to the following notification services that let me know every day of eBook deals. As a res..."Awesome, thanks for that list!
John wrote: "Reading eBooks has greatly expand my new book discovery, particularly for indie authors. I have subscribed to the following notification services that let me know every day of eBook deals. As a res..."Wow, a nice list of sites to try out. Another is
http://www.ereaderiq.com/
which in addition to sending out notices about Kindle sales, can monitor your Amazon wishlists. This morning I got a notice from ereaderIQ that the price of Command and Control: Nuclear Weapons, the Damascus Accident, and the Illusion of Safety dropped, so I went ahead and bought it.
And thus you can see how my ebook habits have been changed. I've become Pavlov's dog. Ring a bell, drop the price on a book I want, and I click, read.
Mark wrote: "John wrote: "Reading eBooks has greatly expand my new book discovery, particularly for indie authors. I have subscribed to the following notification services that let me know every day of eBook de..."Haha. See...and they were so scared to go digital, but the frictionless buying allows you to be pavlovian! If you had to go to the store you'd have many reasons to procrastinate and eventually not buy it.
Karl, I'm a data analyst by trade and I've been thinking for a while about using textual analysis to analyze fantasy and science fiction works. Put a little quantifiable data to all of our conjecture. However, I haven't had the programming skills to scrape the data. If you'd be interested in chatting about how we could maybe combine some of your programming and my data analysis to quantify some sci-fi texts, shoot me a direct message.
Eric wrote: "John wrote: "Reading eBooks has greatly expand my new book discovery, particularly for indie authors. I have subscribed to the following notification services that let me know every day of eBook de..."Thanks for that info. I will certainly check that site out!
James wrote: "Karl, I'm a data analyst by trade and I've been thinking for a while about using textual analysis to analyze fantasy and science fiction works..."
Eric Lease Morgan has a nice 1 page intro: Text Mining in a Nutshell. He has also some programs on GitHub that migth be useful.
Eric Lease Morgan has a nice 1 page intro: Text Mining in a Nutshell. He has also some programs on GitHub that migth be useful.
John wrote: "Reading eBooks has greatly expand my new book discovery, particularly for indie authors. I have subscribed to the following notification services that let me know every day of eBook deals. As a res..."There's also Books on the Knob; http://blog.booksontheknob.org/
and Daily Cheap Reads http://www.dailycheapreads.com/
I check these every day, along with BookBub and eReaderIQ
For novels, ebooks have not changed a single thing about how I discover books.BUT
ebooks have changed how many and what types of short story, novella's I read. Before my kindle I read none - now I read probably one or two a month.
Like quite a few people have mentioned getting access to samples has changed how I buy books a lot. Now before getting a book as an ebook or normal book I will usually read a digital sample if there is one available so I am only getting a book I am quite keen on. Also I might check out books I have read a review of just cause I am curious not because I want to read the thing - although if I am liking it I might go on to buy and read it.One big change with ebooks is to make many, many titles available that otherwise either would not be or would be expensive so I have been much more able to read what ever I fancy, not whatever I can get. Also all the cheap ebook prices for some newly released or recently released books mean I dont need to wait till stuff comes out in paperback/second hand so much.
Ben wrote: "Like quite a few people have mentioned getting access to samples has changed how I buy books a lot. Now before getting a book as an ebook or normal book I will usually read a digital sample if the..."So, in a way, books have caught up to where computer games were in the 80s - demos.
I'm a voracious reader, typically 5 books a week. For a couple of decades my reading was dictated by price as books in Australia have always been very expensive. New release hardcovers are AU$30+ after discounting and mass market paperbacks cost around AU$20. (The Australia Tax is nothing new).So for a long time my new book discovery was bargain bins, second hand book stores, whatever was popular and discounted in the department stores (paperbacks for AU$15, wow!) and of course, libraries. This has even shaped my reading history, in that some writers had odd publishing deals that quite literally priced themselves out of my reading. For instance, Stephen Erikson's books here were all sold at AU$28 as paperbacks. This being while the AU$ and US$ were almost at parity. Also, I had a preference for enormous Peter F. Hamilton-style efforts at deforestation in literary form because they would last me longer.
I recently purchased The Mirror Empire as an ebook, new release by a well-respected Hugo-winning author, on the day it was first published, for AU$6.99.
It's hard to explain how huge that is for me.
It means that for the last few years I've been able to follow the review and news sites and actually read what comes out, when it comes out and (mostly) price is not an issue.
It also means that rather than reading the fringes of the community from several years prior, I tend to read what's getting buzz now, and because of that the buzz tends to be what dictates my buying habits.
I got into ebooks when I bought a Kindle to read uni stuff on (turns out the Kindle was terrible for that, but I found another use for it). I am ashamed to admit it, but I didn't really read for a long time before I bought the Kindle. I was busy playing World of Warcraft. So the biggest change is the actual ebooks themselves. I live in a town that doesn't have a bookstore so I'm browsing for books online anyway, digital or not.The next biggest change in my reading is Kindle samples: if I don't like the sample, I don't buy the book. I've only been burned once by this process. Books are so expensive in Australia I preferred to not read than to buy something on the off-chance it sucked (this is also why I don't go to the cinema). My library's SF/F range is YA, so that wasn't inspiring.
Lastly: Amazon recommendations. I picked up The Name of the Wind originally because the cover looked cool, but it also came up in my Amazon recommendations. Because I bought NOTW, awesome stuff started coming up in my recs. That algorithm has been better for me than the Goodreads one, although Goodreads is improving (now that it's owned by Amazon? Maybe).
Amazon daily deals have me buying anything slightly interesting. I've discovered many new authors I think would never have made it in traditional publishing but write the stories I want to read.Also the ability to get sample chapters is just incredible. Just like movies there are a lot of books that end up stinkers, few chapters help me make an informed decision to purchase.
Lindsay wrote: "I'm a voracious reader, typically 5 books a week. For a couple of decades my reading was dictated by price as books in Australia have always been very expensive. New release hardcovers are AU$30+ a..."Just out of curiosity - what made the eBook not subject to crazy Australia pricing? Because you bought from an American site and just did the money conversion?
David wrote: "James wrote: "Karl, I'm a data analyst by trade and I've been thinking for a while about using textual analysis to analyze fantasy and science fiction works..."Eric Lease Morgan has a nice 1 page..."
Thanks David, I'll check it out. I'm fairly good with statistical programs like R, Stata, etc. but the data needed to do any analysis on Sci-Fi and Fantasy books requires the flexibility of and level of skill with something like Python or Perl that I simply don't have (it seems to me anyway). I'll check out the tools that Morgan has listed in his intro, see what can be extracted without having the ability to tailor the data extraction (shoot, maybe I'm overthinking it). Anyway, seriously, thanks! I'll let you know if I come up with anything.
Eric wrote: "Lindsay wrote: "I'm a voracious reader, typically 5 books a week. For a couple of decades my reading was dictated by price as books in Australia have always been very expensive. New release hardcov..."So far, yes, buying books in USD is cheaper, especially when the AUD was stronger than USD! We have parallel import restrictions on books (although most English-language countries do as well). Books sold here must be printed here, which means at higher cost. And then they're subject to added GST (goods and services tax, currently 10%). I can buy at least two Amazon ebooks same price as the paperback, and double that for the hardcover.
We're still restricted on the books available to Australian addresses on Amazon.com but it's a lot better than it used to be even a couple of years ago, and Amazon.com.au just opened up.
Elizabeth wrote: "Books sold here must be printed here, which means at higher cost. And then they're subject to added GST (goods and services tax, currently 10%). I can buy at least two Amazon ebooks same price as the paperback, and double that for the hardcover. "This is correct, but there's also the Australia Tax. The cost of local printing plus the 10% GST do not add up to the price differential. The rest is about charging what they think the public will pay for the content. This is something that the suppliers can get away with in a relatively small market like Australia (~22 million people). The government has even had an inquiry on this, discovered that the issue exists and then have done absolutely nothing about it.
In terms of why ebooks have avoided this, it's not so much the US$ vs the AU$, but that we're buying from US suppliers that aren't Apple. (Apple is by far the worst and widespread example of the Australia Tax in practice).
Lindsay wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Books sold here must be printed here, which means at higher cost. And then they're subject to added GST (goods and services tax, currently 10%). I can buy at least two Amazon eboo..."I would imagine as more people purchase the ebooks and the publishers see their demand go down then I imagine the prices of other books will come down as well. I enjoy reading on my kindle nothing beats the feel of a brand new hardcover in your hands.
Lindsay wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Books sold here must be printed here, which means at higher cost. And then they're subject to added GST (goods and services tax, currently 10%). I can buy at least two Amazon eboo..."Elizabeth wrote: "Eric wrote: "Lindsay wrote: "I'm a voracious reader, typically 5 books a week. For a couple of decades my reading was dictated by price as books in Australia have always been very expensive. New re..."
Sounds like a recipe for illegal acquisition of media. It may be ethically and morally wrong (as well as illegal), but it certainly is a pretty easy self-justification to make - "those bastards are charging us more because they can? How about they get nothing!" I remember reading a year or two ago that the place where Game of Thrones was d/led the most was Australia.
Lindsay wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Books sold here must be printed here, which means at higher cost. And then they're subject to added GST (goods and services tax, currently 10%). I can buy at least two Amazon eboo..."I mean this is exactly how supply and demand works...not that I like it but it is the pure definition of the principle.
I read far more with my kindle than I have read before. And I will also give just about anything that catches my eye a shot, especially when the price is under $3. It' hit and miss, but I have a few authors I really enjoy now that I never would have given a shot with a paper book. Plus, I can't always run off at a whim to the bookstore to browse. But I can with the Kindle. Gives me more incentive to try an author I haven't read. Thus, I read more.
Roger wrote: "Lindsay wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Books sold here must be printed here, which means at higher cost. And then they're subject to added GST (goods and services tax, currently 10%). I can buy at least..."Supply/demand breaks when you have governments imposing tariffs and an inability to get books if they don't bring them to your country. True supply and demand would mean the same price for everything everywhere since shipping costs are so negligible that, no joke, there are chickens farmed in California that are sent to China to be cut up and sent back to the US to be sold. YES, it is cheaper to SEND IT ACROSS THE OCEAN AND BACK than to just cut it up in the USA.
Jeff wrote: "I read far more with my kindle than I have read before. And I will also give just about anything that catches my eye a shot, especially when the price is under $3. It' hit and miss, but I have a fe..."Yes, I've found the most "dangerous" thing about digital goods to be the removal of friction when it comes to the buying and delivery process. If I order a physical book from Amazon, it takes longer for me to get it than if I go to the local B&N or BAM!. But if I buy an ebook, I can start reading it SOONER than going to the store. And I've both read about (and experienced in my life) that if you have to go out to get something or wait for it to be delivered, your brain has more chances to say...."Are you sure that's a good use of your money?"
Agreed. I just convinced myself that the ebook is never a waste of money. I just repeat it to myself over and over until I believe it to be true. :)
Eric wrote: "Roger wrote: "Lindsay wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Books sold here must be printed here, which means at higher cost. And then they're subject to added GST (goods and services tax, currently 10%). I ca..."That's true, that does cut out the free enterprise side of things.
Jeff wrote: "Agreed. I just convinced myself that the ebook is never a waste of money. I just repeat it to myself over and over until I believe it to be true. :)"The only thing that sucks (in the current state of tech) is inability to resell. As the thread on here about re-reading books shows - most of us don't reread most of our books. My wife is currently selling some books she read and will never read again.
Then again, I guess I should stop whining because dollar for entertainment hour - books are the cheapest entertainment I buy. Cost/hour of enjoyment from least to most is: books < TV shows < movies (DVD) < movies (theatre - if paying for more than one person) < comics (Which I love, but provide the least entertainment time per dollar)
The Sword and Laser
Books mentioned in this topic
The Name of the Wind (other topics)The Mirror Empire (other topics)
Command and Control: Nuclear Weapons, the Damascus Accident, and the Illusion of Safety (other topics)
The Count of Monte Cristo (other topics)
Walk around B&N or other book store and look around. Find neat looking covers or authors I know. For example, discovered Neal Stephenson via the neat cover to The Diamond Age. Very, very rarely did I pick books based on recommendations from othes.
Now with ebooks, this is how I discover new books:
Goodreads or some other recommendation engine tells me that I'll like book X because I liked book Y. I read the summary and decide whether or not to read it. Covers play very little role, especially as (just like with MP3s) they're often at a much smaller size than it would be on a physical book. Also, there usually aren't "shelves" to browse.
On the one hand, I'm PROBABLY more likely to enjoy the books now because Goodreads, Amazon, et al spend a lot of time making good recommendation engines. On the other hand, outside of reading groups like Sword and Laser, I'm unlikely to come across new books and authors outside my comfort zone. (Not 100% true as Humble Bundle and other similar sites can play this role)
So, how, if it all, has it changed the way you buy books? For better? For worse?