Our Marginalized Relations discussion
A Quiet Kind of Thunder
>
Sign Language
date
newest »
newest »
I learned ASL when I was pregnant. We never used it much because our daughter preferred to learn to vocalize for communication, so we just let her do what was most natural for her to do.She uses it now in school and I still know ASL when I need to use it. We practice sometimes when we have to avoid using words that the dog understands, like "go for a walk".
No, I did not know there were ASL and BSL until I read it in the book. I think I remember learning some words in ASL in elementary school years ago but it was just something that was only touched upon and not continued it was like an awareness day or something like that.I would say that learning sign would be something nice to know but unless I was using it every day I think the effort to learn it might not weigh out against the amount I would use it though to know how to at least say “hello my name is” would be at least something good to know.
Yes I could see that you would have to learn an entirely new language in order to understand the signs of some other languages. It would seem like a continuous process of learning.
Full disclaimer, I haven't read the book yet so this may have been covered there. -----------------------------------------------------------------
But one of the big things about sign is that it's its own language that has developed through shared meaning and cultural references. And watching similarities or differences across multiple languages is like watching etymologies of words transition through a language's history and culture.
A good resource:
https://www.k-international.com/blog/...
Make sure to scroll below for the video!
------------------------------------------------------
At home, we use a smattering of pidgin (PSE) which linguistically is a combination of ASL and BSL. Should be noted that my family isn't a member of the deaf community. We all can hear just fine, but speaking, comprehending, is where we need PSE.
------------------------------------------------------
Meerder: I'm curious if the differences between DGS and OGS differ given the holocaust. "Between 1940 and 1941 approximately 70,000 Austrian and German disabled people were killed under the T4 program, most via large-scale killing operations using poison gas." https://www.ushmm.org/collections/bib....
Also fun facts: (Otherwise known as things I just learned that are astonishing)
"Linguistic research on ÖGS started in the 1990s. After a 15-year effort by the Deaf community, ÖGS was legally recognized by the Austrian Parliament on September 1, 2005."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria...
"Germany has a strong oralist tradition and historically has seen a suppression of sign language. German Sign Language was first legally recognized in The Federal Disability Equality Act (2002) in May 2002"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_...
2002 and 2005!!!!
Mod
Pam, can you explain what PSE is? "...supported English"?
I am pretty certain that the differences don't come from the Holocaust. (One of the operations that comes to my mind that specifically targeted disabled people was named T4, Austria's concentration camp was involved in this one)
The thing is, that Sign itself wasn't a thing until a few decades ago - for a long time the dogma was to have an oralist approach, as in that Sign was regarded as dirty etc... and people should learn to lipread etc...
It also shows how different they are, ÖGS and DGS have their own grammar, and since they are Sign languages, they even can convey meaning in a different way than a spoken language does.
Oops. sorry. PSE = pidgin. Pidgin Sign English.
MeerderWörter wrote: "The thing is, that Sign itself wasn't a thing until a few decades ago - for a long time the dogma was to have an oralist approach, as in that Sign was regarded as dirty etc... and people should learn to lipread etc..."That's what is so amazing/awful (full of awe) is that to me in the states. "ASL emerged as a language in the American School for the Deaf (ASD), founded in 1817" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...
And that's why I brought up T4/ the Holocaust. If the deaf community were forcibly removed, then those remaining would have a very good reason to leave or to stay silent and try to read lips etc. They wouldn't be working with others or trying to reach out to each other to build the language together; even if the spoken language is so close. And thus why there is such a difference between the two.
Mod
I looked a bit more into it, and it really isn't related to the Holocaust, they're not in the same language family even! And, because you mention the Holocaust, ÖGS and Sign in Israel are related, because so many people from here emigrated there.
Btw, iirc then ASL is rooted in Plains Sign language, but I could be wrong with that.
Ahhh. Gotcha.Thanks for looking into this!
MeerderWörter wrote: "Did you know that there is ASL and BSL (American Sign Language, British Sign Language) before starting to read this book? (I did, but how about you?)Do you know how to sign in either BSL or ASL? (Also, do you remember some of the signs from the book?)
Do you plan to learn Sign now? How did reading the book change your perspective on Sign languages and would you start learning some signs for a start now (like Hello..., my name is... and the like?)"
I've been thinking of learning Sign Language since I've read the story of Helen Keller. But I've been too lazy to start... I don't know anyone personally who uses it (to my knowledge).
Also, I don't know which language I would start with. I'm French, live in Germany, and work in a very international institute ;-)
Mod
Do you know how to sign i..."
So that would mean either French, German or International Sign for you... yeah, when you don't know anyone personally who signs, then you don't have as much an incentive to actually learn it...
I plan on learning at least a few signs, like Hello, my name is... these easy things...
Wait, there's also an "International Sign"? like a kind of esperanto? a language that people from different countries/who originally speak or sign different languages will learn so that they can readily communicate in other countries? sounds like a match :-)EDIT>
So I realize I really know nothing. Thank you so much to all of you for your time on explaining Sign Language!
For those like me, the Wikipedia page on ISL is a good start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...
Mod
Yep, there is. But often ASL is used as a sort of international Sign.
When I have more time again I can compile a thread on the history of sign language, I watched a sort of documentary on it yesterday evening.
Also, I'd really like to learn at least basic Austrian Sign, because you never know when you meet the first person who signs and then it is just appropriate to at least introduce yourself.
Yeah. Its a really good idea to learn how to say your name, where is the bathroom, things critical to emergencies. Where does it hurt?
Is there anyone with you?
Who are your parents/ family?
And like the answers to those, too.
Mod
Where does it hurt?
Is there anyone with you?
Who are your parents/ family?
An..."
True. The only thing I know right now is the Sign for "I ask"
This is all fascinating and a little worrisome. Google search informs me that there are between 138 to 300 different types of sign language used in the world today with new ones evolving all the time. Even with the International Sign Language, that means learning another language and/or several more dialects if one travels abroad at all. Seems much more likely that even if there is someone who knows sign language, they might not know the same sign language.In the USA, ASL seems fairly standard in our schools. We also have what I knew as ESL as a kid, but is now apparently called SEE (Signed Exact English), and the Pidgin Sign English that Pam mentioned.
I am running this by my father, who is hearing impaired (he uses hearing aides and reads lips), and is also a retired special education teacher. ASL was the one taught at his school, and a simplified version taught to the severely handicapped pre-schoolers. It is a whole separate language and, he points out, challenging for kiddos who haven't grasped even basic English language skills.
I think of how hard it was for me to learn Spanish, a fairly straightforward language, and how grateful I am to know English whenever I encounter someone learning it (such a difficult language with contradictory rules). And I am in awe.
Did you know that there is ASL and BSL (American Sign Language, British Sign Language) before starting to read this book? (I did, but how about you?)
Do you know how to sign in either BSL or ASL? (Also, do you remember some of the signs from the book?)
Do you plan to learn Sign now? How did reading the book change your perspective on Sign languages and would you start learning some signs for a start now (like Hello..., my name is... and the like?)
For me personally, I find it interesting that German spoken in Germany and Austria is, unless we speak in too much dialect, mutually intellegible (and we have standard German as well), while with Sign there is Austrian Sign Language and German Sign Language and the two of them are not mutually intellegible. That's something that I wouldn't have thought of before, I was thinking people would use the same Sign language. <- See, that's how easy you learn a new thing, often even without specifically looking for it.