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How do you want it to end?
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Jay
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Aug 20, 2014 03:38PM
If you're reading a murder mystery, and the murderer is likable but misguided, how do you want it to end? Should they go free? Get caught? Die trying to escape?
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I would prefer to see the murder captured and facing punishment for his or her crimes. Even if he is likable but misguided, he has committed a crime and should be held to account.It doesn't bother me if the murder is killed by the protagonist to save his or someone else's life.
No matter what kind of person the murder is, I hate endings where the killer escapes punishment by killing himself. Or escapes capture entirely.
What if the murderer is the protagonist?
Same applies. The only exception is if the protagonist murders in defense of his or another person's life.
Quillracer wrote: "Same applies. The only exception is if the protagonist murders in defense of his or another person's life."
No, this murderer is killing people who remind her of her abusive step-father. But the men aren't abusive themselves, they just share a trait with him.
The two MCs are detectives tracking her down. They end up having a personal connection with her before realizing she is the killer.
Now I'm nearly at the end and fairly attached to her so I'm not sure if I should let her go or arrest her.
I'm sure Joss felt the same way when he killed Wash in Serenity - I am a leaf on the wind :)
Thanks for the input!
In that case, Jay, I vote for my first option: Arrest her and bring her to trial.Since the men share a trait, her lawyer possibly could use that to prove she was unable to distinguish them from her abusive step-father, and get her a lighter sentence based on a diminished capacity defense. And your MCs, understanding what drove her to murder, could speak for leniency in sentencing at her trial.
As a reader, I would feel let down if you allow her to escape. In a critique, I would say you had given it an 'ending' but not a 'resolution.' As a writer, I would feel I hadn't done my job if I let the bad guy or gal escape in my novel.
But this is your book and you must write it as you think it should be, not as I or anyone else tells you it should be.
Good luck with your writing.
Quillracer wrote: "In that case, Jay, I vote for my first option: Arrest her and bring her to trial......But this is your book and you must write it as you think it should be, not as I or anyone else tells you it should be."
I'm leaning towards arrest, but no trial. I'm already at 92k and I don't think there's room for that in this story. Plus, I view her as a stand-up kind of a gal. She's knows she's not right in what she's doing and she isn't trying to make excuses.
And sure, it's my story, but when you don't know what kind of ice cream you want and all of the flavors look good to you, you ask for advice :)
Sometimes its nice to see the bad guy get away - Dexter for example
Philip wrote: "Sometimes its nice to see the bad guy get away - Dexter for example"I wanted Dexter to get away but that ending was horrible. Hence why I am shopping around for opinions.
I do like how all of the bad side effects from Dexter's killings started showing themselves in the last season - like LaGuerta being killed. This started making you feel less sympathetic to Dexter because good people were dying too and not just the bad guys.
Jay said: I'm leaning towards arrest, but no trial. I'm already at 92k and I don't think there's room for that in this story. Plus, I view her as a stand-up kind of a gal. She's knows she's not right in what she's doing and she isn't trying to make excuses.You could 'recap' the outcome of the trial in a brief epilog that hits the highlights - she accepted responsibility for her actions but the detectives who arrested her spoke on her behalf during the penalty phase.
And sure, it's my story, but when you don't know what kind of ice cream you want and all of the flavors look good to you, you ask for advice :)
And I'm happy to offer my advice. But I'd never tell you you have to do it my way.
Phillip said: Sometimes its nice to see the bad guy get away - Dexter for example
I refused to watch that show for just that reason.
Philip wrote: "Sometimes its nice to see the bad guy get away - Dexter for example"yes and always leaves the reader wanting more and you can use that same character again either as wibbly background but you know that she's still there as a presence or just drops in occasionally :) its always good to have a character to use as and when
Zoe wrote: "Philip wrote: "Sometimes its nice to see the bad guy get away - Dexter for example"yes and always leaves the reader wanting more and you can use that same character again either as wibbly backgro..."
I thought about making her his Moriarty, and he may get one some day, but it can't be her.
My protagonist would probably be the antagonist in most other stories, so I can't really advise you how to handle your situation.Although I have to say that I don't believe in 'justice', which I consider a concept/ideal rather than a reality.
I had a beta reader who was disturbed that my protagonist wasn't 'brought to justice', but I told the beta that it wouldn't have been realistic if she had been.
How do you feel about including romance in a gripping thriller?
Did you ever watch "The Shield?" That had a good series ending. The "bad guy," is the protagonist. Detective Vic Mackey isn't killed nor arrested, but it ends with him emotionally tortured.
I want the bad guy to get off if the reason for the crime is compelling enough - think of A Time To Kill by Grisham. And I'm with Jay - I wanted Dexter to get away, but the ending was pretty meh. For me, it's always been about the justice, and justice isn't always about the law. To Kill a Mockingbird comes to mind. Sometimes it's just about what's right for the story.
Khaled wrote: "How do you feel about including romance in a gripping thriller?"I think it's like any other element, if it moves the story forward and has a purpose, then it should be included. If it's fluff just to pander to a certain audience base, then I think the author needs to decide which audience base is more important to him/her - the hard core thriller audience or the people who want a cheap and smutty read.
Tim wrote: "Did you ever watch "The Shield?" That had a good series ending. The "bad guy," is the protagonist. Detective Vic Mackey isn't killed nor arrested, but it ends with him emotionally tortured."I initially wouldn't watch The Shield because I'm a cop and the thought of glorifying police corruption turned me off to it. But then I got over myself and saw and episode and really liked it. The ending was good too. You reap what you sew.
Lynne wrote: "I want the bad guy to get off if the reason for the crime is compelling enough - think of A Time To Kill by Grisham. And I'm with Jay - I wanted Dexter to get away, but the ending was pretty meh. ..."I totally agree. But my killer can't justify her actions. She can explain the hell out of it but even she admits she's wrong in her actions.
Jay wrote: "Lynne wrote: "I want the bad guy to get off if the reason for the crime is compelling enough - think of A Time To Kill by Grisham. And I'm with Jay - I wanted Dexter to get away, but the ending wa..."From the reader perspective, if she's sympathetic enough or justified (not legally, but morally) then I'm not offended if the cops find a way to let her off, or if the judge/jury don't convict. But, if she's just lovable and not justified, put her away with a really, really light sentence and have a cop/lawyer/someone tell her that they'll be there for her when she gets out. Give us hope for her future. lol
Lynne wrote: "Jay wrote: "Lynne wrote: "I want the bad guy to get off if the reason for the crime is compelling enough - think of A Time To Kill by Grisham. And I'm with Jay - I wanted Dexter to get away, but t..."I like your last part! Make Sebastian pine for her. Maybe get someone else over a couple of books and then BAM - she's out on a technicality! What would he do then?!
Jay said: I like your last part! Make Sebastian pine for her. Maybe get someone else over a couple of books and then BAM - she's out on a technicality! What would he do then?!Michael Connelly does something similar with Harry Bosch. In The Black Echo, Harry Bosch figures out a woman killed the 'tunnel rat' whose murder drives the book.
Without giving too much away, several books later, he sees her again after she's freed from prison and they cross paths several times over the next few books.
Send me a PM if you'd like more detailed info.
Khaled wrote: "How do you feel about including romance in a gripping thriller?"A romantic subplot has to be integral to the story, not just 'tacked on'. In my series there's a developing relationship in the first book that continues to evolve in the sequels and influences the other story lines. In fact, many story lines are influenced by the connections of the characters and whose side they choose to support.
Quillracer wrote: "Jay said: I'm leaning towards arrest, but no trial. I'm already at 92k and I don't think there's room for that in this story. Plus, I view her as a stand-up kind of a gal. She's knows she's not rig..."Quillracer wrote: "Jay said: I'm leaning towards arrest, but no trial. I'm already at 92k and I don't think there's room for that in this story. Plus, I view her as a stand-up kind of a gal. She's knows she's not rig..."
Regarding Dexter: I was disappointed at the conclusion of Dexter because I think the whole internal logic of the show demanded that he die in a highly original way. i enjoyed it though. Good show which I will miss it.
Jay wrote: "I do like how all of the bad side effects from Dexter's killings started showing themselves in the last season - like LaGuerta being killed. This started making you feel less sympathetic to Dexter because good people were dying too and not just the bad guys."Agreed. I wasn't thrilled with the ending either, but on the other hand, it left things open which I was happy about because I heard rumor there might be a movie follow-up. I wouldn't mind that at all. It was one of my favorite TV shows.
I prefer to have the criminal caught and the crime explained in a coherent, logical, and chronological manner.
I'm not thrilled by excessive drama, violence, swearing, colloquialisms, or anything that detracts from the general story.
Nor do I feel that cliffhangers add attraction, either, whether they are romantic entanglements, unanswered questions, or anything that makes the reader heave a big sigh and wonder what will happen next.
I do like neat, compact endings, with perhaps a light and funny chapter that ties things up, and I appreciate endings that make me want to read the next book!
I'm not thrilled by excessive drama, violence, swearing, colloquialisms, or anything that detracts from the general story.
Nor do I feel that cliffhangers add attraction, either, whether they are romantic entanglements, unanswered questions, or anything that makes the reader heave a big sigh and wonder what will happen next.
I do like neat, compact endings, with perhaps a light and funny chapter that ties things up, and I appreciate endings that make me want to read the next book!
I think I would want the person to die in a magnificent|over-the-top kind of way --- but he really is not dead, it is like a ploy to escape ---
Jennifer, so do u not like cliffhangers even if the answer is in the next book which u r going to read?
bespectacled reader- I don't mind the fake death to escape but I would hope for a sequel at some point where he/she is caught
Jennifer wrote: "I prefer to have the criminal caught and the crime explained in a coherent, logical, and chronological manner.I'm not thrilled by excessive drama, violence, swearing, colloquialisms, or anything ..."
You just described the ending I decided to use! :)
There isn't a cliffhanger, but our intrepid homicide detective gets a call from a side-character in the book, asking if the detective will head over to an officer involved shooting scene and take it over. It's not exciting or any more information. It's just him getting back to work. My next book with him will start with this scene but as a reader, I don't think the epilogue makes you wonder about the next investigation. I hope it makes you wonder about more adventures with the main characters though.
Afsana wrote: "Jennifer, so do u not like cliffhangers even if the answer is in the next book which u r going to read?"I like a subtle cliffhanger, unless the series is already out and I'm just finding it. Because then I can grab the next one and keep going.
My first novel had a big cliffhanger and it took a while for the sequel to come out and not everyone was happy about that :)
No, I don't like cliffhangers, even if the answer is in the next book because I find it to be a cliche way for novels to end.
I simply won't continue with the series if the ending is excessively dramatic; cliffhangers tend to have a soap opera aspect to them that I personally don't find attractive.
For me endings are meant to end a novel, not drag out for eternity.
It might be harsh, but it's only my opinion, and everyone has a different perspective.
I simply won't continue with the series if the ending is excessively dramatic; cliffhangers tend to have a soap opera aspect to them that I personally don't find attractive.
For me endings are meant to end a novel, not drag out for eternity.
It might be harsh, but it's only my opinion, and everyone has a different perspective.
Hey, Jennifer, it's fine to feel the way you feel. Cliff hangers are all right; I was really surprised that Steig Larsson had cliff hangers, and gasp, I ran right out and bought the novels, too.
Guys, Jennifer didn't make it out of this thread. She's gone! I think we've all been unwittingly plunged into a murder mystery that we're a part of. Soon we will see another post on this thread with the ominous [deleted user] next to where our name used to be... It's been a pleasure and an honor to have posted threads with you fine people!
I always wondered what that meant as if u leave a group..ur name doesn't get removed? does this mean she left and then completed deleted account.strange to leave so abruptly. ask a question and then no more!!
Mod
strange to leave so abruptly. ask a question and t..."
Well, it's kind of weird, but there's nothing like moving forward.
Too bad my book isn't ready for release right now. I could use this as a viral campaign :)Who's next to disappear?
Mod
Who's next to disappear?"
Actually, no you couldn't. The mean old moderator would be pushing the delete button.
Nancy wrote: "Jay wrote: "Too bad my book isn't ready for release right now. I could use this as a viral campaign :)Who's next to disappear?"
Actually, no you couldn't. The mean old moderator would be pushing..."
So the moderator did it, in the forums, with the delete button.
Colonel Mustard got lucky this time...
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I think it stinks if not done well. There was a book I read once where a man and a woman were being chased across the desert and everything was absolutely dire, like you're on the edge of your seat dire. Then in the middle of the chase, they actually stop and find time to have sex. Now, that was just dumb.
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I think it stinks if not done well. There was a book I read once where a man and a woman were being ch..."
Oh, Mary - LOL!
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I think it stinks if not done well. There was a book I read once where a man and a woman were being ch..."
OMG - I'm still laughing at your comment. LOL
