EVERYONE Has Read This but Me - The Catch-Up Book Club discussion
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[ARCHIVES] CHALLENGE CORNER
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NEW "Around the World in Books" Challenge - Preliminary discussion
Kerri wrote: "So to clarify: Khaled Hosseini would NOT count as an Afghanistan writer?
I think he wouldn't.
He left Afghanistan at age 11, to France. After that, he moved to the US when he was 15, High School and college were in the US. Lives there, writes there.
His description in Wikipedia: "is an Afghan-born American novelist and physician.".
That's it, an "American novelist", in the same way as R. F. Kuang and Kevin Kwan.
They do not live or write in their original countries.
Also from the Wikipedia:
"Hosseini was born in Kabul, Afghanistan. His father worked as a diplomat, and when Hosseini was 11 years old, the family moved to France; four years later, they applied for asylum in the United States, where he later became a citizen. Hosseini did not return to Afghanistan until 2001 at the age of 36, where he "felt like a tourist in [his] own country".
Kerri wrote: "So to clarify: Would Kamila Shamsie be a Pakistani author? She came up under a list of 11 Pakistani Authors...."
Yes, clearly.
A very diffeent case. Born, raised and educated in Pakistan, she moved to London only at the age of 37. And shares her time between England and Pakistan. She is recognized as a Pakistani author and has received Pakistani Literature awards.
No doubt in this case.
Problem is, the more authors we talk about, the more books discovered to read! :-)
Marcos wrote: "Agreed as to the differences between the several English language literatures.Alice Munroe is clearly and undisputably Canadian Literature, not American, for instance.
Agatha Christie is clearly..."
So if I am looking for a route through Asia, I need to find books that have been translated into English. The author's place of birth really isn't the criteria. That would be a better way to sort what will work and what won't. I am just trying to figure out what makes it Chinese or Indian or Korean. I have already identified a few books that clearly work (The Bastard of Istanbul, Anna Kareina, The Master and Margurita) But what about The Vegetarian by Han Kang or Americanah by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie?
Thanks for your patience, Marcos!
Laura wrote: "I need to find books that have been translated into EnglishOf course, translations are indispensable, that will probably be the case of most of us! Unless you speak a lot of languages. :-)
I'll have Japanese, Russian, Finnish, Norwegian authors, etc. Not a chance without translations. I'll read both translations into Portuguese and English.
I am just trying to figure out what makes it Chinese or Indian or Korean
One general guidance may be not to think of the place of birth of the author, but, instread, ask:
- Is this author considered a national author in his own country?
- Does he live there, write there, went through experiences there (like living in the mountains, having a river to swim with friends as a child, went through war or discrimination there?) from which to draw and create his stories?
- Do scholars include him / her in that national literature?
Thanks for your patience, Marcos!
Don't you even worry, Laura, this is already a good part of the game! :-)
Hi everyone, what a great challenge! I like the fact the author rather than the setting needs to be related to the country! The only thing is that I would instinctively (and quite realistically, I think) start my travels where I live and return here. Oh well, I guess I'll start with a neighbouring country.By the way, how about Around the World Book by Book as the title?
Laura wrote: "But what about The Vegetarian by Han Kang or Americanah by ?"Han Kang: South Korean, for sure. Why were you in doubt? I may have missed it.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: difficult case. Nigerian born, college in the US. Some sites, including her official site, do not help clarifyng. Has won many American literary awards, so... But shares her time between the US and Nigeria, soooo.... :-)
I think that's because she is a bit of both. Her youth and first writings in Nigeria, but a mature writer, published and a huge success in the US.
Wikipedia, however, says: "Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie is a Nigerian novelist, ..... ''
I think she is to be considered primarily a Nigerian writer. But if someone (not American) wants to read her when their route goes through the US, I think it is quite OK.
Monique wrote: "By the way, how about Around the World Book by Book as the title?"Good one!
It seems like memoirs by authors about living in their home countries might work best for this challenge. Books that were originally published in different countries would work really well too, I think.
Sarina, there's no gender limitation. So, memories would work well, but as well as any other genre. We're targeting national literatures, so any gender in a national literature, say, German, is welcome, like novels, poetry, short stories, memory, letters, you name it! :-)Books that were originally published in different countries would work really well too, I think.
I'm not sure I got you here. You mean books which are released simultaneously in many countries, like a new Harry Potter?
I like the idea, but only if it's made easy. I don't like the logistics of planning a route *or* a list of books getting in the way of actually wanting to *read* the books. Reading the books will be a challenge enough, imo. I see that their are difficulty levels of routes incorporated in the challenge as proposed. Great, I'll just choose the easiest.
But I have no idea how many, or which, books I'll find to read.
Oh, and I like the idea of letting the reader determine the nationality of the author, within reason.
And I totally support a suggestion folder, with threads for countries/ regions.
Thanks, Cheryl, good points.As you see, I started from the most complex level, but there are many factors that can make the challenge a very easy one.
Yes, the idea was of offering different levels of difficulty.
If you like the idea of planning, go to level one. where you can still plan an easier or more difficult route, depending on how many books / countries you choose, or where the countries are.
No planning at all for me? There's level 3, where you can read as easy as two books anywhere in the world. Say, from Canada to France and back, and that's it! Nothing can be easier.
Therefore, we have a wide range of difficulty, easily adaptable to anyone! :-)
Let's just take my route. I have all the books, what makes it easier, they're all books I already wanted to read. So, I just picked them from my shelves, what will help me with the everlasting TBR pile as well. :-)
I'm planning my 'Book by Book Around the World' challenge already! :)Oh, do we need to read the books in order, the way we would travel? I guess this is one more thing we can decide on ourselves? ;)
Also, I do think it's a good idea to let people decide which country they want to place a writer in, within limits. My part of the world - ex-Yugoslavia - is a good example of the many problems that arise when country names and borders change. For instance, I've recently read Meša Selimović, who is generally regarded as a Bosnian writer - but he never actually lived in a country called Bosnia (and Herzegovina). He was born in the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and then lived all of his life in some form of Yugoslavia or other, splitting his time between the states of Bosnia and Serbia. Supported by several sources, Wikipedia includes the following information: "In his 1976 letter to the Serbian Academy of Science and Arts, Selimović stated for the historical record that he regarded himself as a Serb and belonging to the corpus of Serbian literature." The independent country of Bosnia and Herzegovina only came to be some ten years after his death. His writing is steeped in Bosniak culture, though, and it is easy to see why this label prevails.
Monique wrote: "I'm planning my 'Book by Book Around the World' challenge already! :)Oh, do we need to read the books in order, the way we would travel? I guess this is one more thing we can decide on ourselves?..."
No, we don't. Because, remember, we can add or eliminate books / countries. That would change the order anyway,
Monique wrote: "Selimović stated for the historical record that he regarded himself as a Serb and belonging to the corpus of Serbian literature.""Of course you're right. Nothing more defining than the author's image of himself or herself.
And of course, borders change, countries cease to exist or are created. But nationalities and languages don't chage that much, and the literature belongs to a nation and its culture, not necessarily to a state.
In complex cases like this, better for the nationals to say. :-)
Also, this raises an interesting point.
When someone who is not a national asks a question and another non-national answeres (like about Chimamanda Adichie, above), there always can be a mistake. And if we ever make a mistake, we'll always be able to fix it! :-)
Okay now I feel like I've got it. Thank you so much Marcos! I'm sorry in advance for the endless questions I will have.
Could somebody familiar with the Around the World in 80 Books group help me find the lists of suggestions? I'm finding the site difficult to navigate. I'd like to do some island-hopping and am particularly interested in finding reads from Cyprus and Malta.
Marcos wrote: "Sarina, there's no gender limitation. So, memories would work well, but as well as any other genre. We're targeting national literatures, so any gender in a national literature, say, German, is wel..."No, I mean books published in a different country than the reader’s home country would work well. (As in I could pursue a book originally published in France, and then a book originally published in Spain, etc., NOT necessarily meaning that I would have to find a book that was published in multiple countries.) Sorry for the confusion, I was organizing my thoughts on what types of books I will pursue for this challenge.
Monique wrote: "Could somebody familiar with the Around the World in 80 Books group help me find the lists of suggestions? I'm finding the site difficult to navigate. I'd like to do some island-hopping and am part..."I had trouble navigating the page as well. I was looking for books from Greek and Costa Rican writers but it seems that a lot of what they have on there is the countries where the book is set, rather than where the author is from.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...I did find this page today and it was helpful in finding a Greek novel, that wasn't by Homer, but I'm not sure about all the books because the one I found for my Costa Rican author ended up being $300 on amazon and nowhere else to be found. But hopefully it's a little helpful for you.
Thanks Kyra! Smaller countries seem to be quite a challenge. I've found this resource that could be helpful to some: https://www.goodreads.com/list/tag/au...
Thanks Monique! This was really helpful, I had actually had New Zealand on my list originally but abandoned it because I couldn't find any novels that sounded interesting to me but this list helped me put it back in. But I did end up taking out Costa Rica and taking a trip through Columbia and Brazil instead...I may have overdid it :)
Great to hear that Kyra! I've created a new list for Slovenian literature in case anyone is struggling with that but I'm not sure how to make it visible under Author by Country Book Lists: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1.... The ordering is not particularly relevant, in any case people's choice will probably be determined by what book they can get their hands on as these books are unfortunately not particularly widely available!
Monique wrote: "Great to hear that Kyra! I've created a new list for Slovenian literature in case anyone is struggling with that but I'm not sure how to make it visible under Author by Country Book Lists: https:..."
Wow, that is actually great!
I'm happy to report I've found the right tag and the Slovenian list is now available together with the others. I'll of course gladly help with any questions about the content, style etc. :)
Oh, I love the idea of this new challenge! Although I'm not sure I'll be joining because I actually kinda hate reading constraints. Also, whenever I make plans, I always end up not sticking to them anyways. XD But I might use the idea to help move around the priorities of my to-read mountain of books! :)
I'm already in this challenge. I loved the idea as I've been wanting to read books from throughout the world. But I don't want to plan the entire reading list. I wanna choose as I progress. Just like I do when I actually travel. I want to pick up what I want to read when I reach the country.
Aditi wrote: "I'm already in this challenge. I loved the idea as I've been wanting to read books from throughout the world. But I don't want to plan the entire reading list. I wanna choose as I progress. Just l..."
Oh I like the idea of spontaneous travel! I am pretty sure we can do that as long as we travel "correctly" according to our difficulty level. Right Marcos?
Actually, I might do just like you :D
This website has some suggestions for each country and some reviewshttps://ayearofreadingtheworld.com/th...
Irene wrote: "This website has some suggestions for each country and some reviewshttps://ayearofreadingtheworld.com/th..."
thanks!
Sorry if this has already been answered...Do I have to read the books in the order that I have them listed? I've got a simple list numbered 1 to 6 at the moment but if in the future I read a 7th book that would fit in between books 3 and 4 as they all border each other could I go back and put it in there or do I have to find a way of getting from 6 to 7? Hope that makes sense...
I'm definitely up for this challenge. I think I will let my ideas percolate a bit before planning a final route. I'm pretty sure that level 2 will suit me nicely...a challenge but more flexible. Is it ok to start with the first 1 or 2 destinations and add to them as I go? It will be more fun for me to be more of a voyage of discovery throughout the year than planning out my entire route in advance. I like the sense of adventure in not knowing everything..its more true to the Jules Verne story too.
This was my first inspiration for wanting to do this type of challenge years ago when first watching it. I also hope to do a similar project with my sophomore students.https://www.ted.com/talks/ann_morgan_...
Is there a list of the best books around the world? Something like international books that Everyone Has Read But Me? My challenge will be to read six books that teach me about six different countries. I'd rather have them spread around the world than all in one line.
I will count Thousand Splendid Suns as a book about Afghanistan. I don't think it matters that the author now lives in America.
Laura wrote: "so if I want to read Kevin Kwan, who was born in Singapore but lives in the US now, that does not work???I have read works that have been translated into English and have some books that are on m..."
You're right Laura. It's an arbitrary rule that doesn't consider how well the book represents a country. There must be lists or links to help guide people. This is more complicated than it needs to be. KISS
Marcos wrote: "Nova wrote: "The book is The Poppy War by R.F. Kuang. I know that she lives in the US but I'm thinking that it counts since she's A) from China, B) listed as a Chinese author and C) she's mentioned..."You asked for comments and you're getting push back. I think you should start simple if you want people to do it at all. Don't say next year. It's only Jan 11 now. It's OK to change the plan now. Just saying.
Sarina wrote: "It would be nice to have a place for book suggestions, like “here’s a list of books by authors from Zimbabwe.” That would make it easier for me to find books and plan my route."I agree Sarina.
I rearly do challenges but I like this one a lot. Already prepared my route:-)Just don't know how to draw a map on google..
Kyra wrote: "Monique wrote: "Could somebody familiar with the Around the World in 80 Books group help me find the lists of suggestions? I'm finding the site difficult to navigate .... I had trouble navigating the page as well. I was looking for books from Greek and Costa Rican writers but it seems that a lot of what they have on there is the countries where the book is set, rather than where the author is from.."Yes, they're a different group, with different aims.
Sarina wrote: "No, I mean books published in a different country than the reader’s home country would work well. (As in I could pursue a book originally published in France, and then a book originally published in Spain, etc., NOT necessarily meaning that I would have to find a book that was published in multiple countries.) "That's OK, Sarina. We do not have to find books published in multiple countries.
Our main aim is to discover and read other literatures. Meaning other cultures, other places, ways of life, etc. that such literatures will lead us to know better.
Where the book was published actually is not important. Some authors were even banned in their own countries, but managed to be published in other countries.
The only thing is, of course, you must be able to read in the original language, or the book has to have been translated into a language you can read. :-)
Kyra wrote: "Thanks Monique! This was really helpful, I had actually had New Zealand on my list originally but abandoned it because I couldn't find any novels that sounded interesting to me but this list helped..."A Google search for "new zealand authors", "costa rica authors", or "new zealand literature", etc. usually produces a good sample and links.
Same for Wikipedia.
Monique wrote: "Great to hear that Kyra! I've created a new list for Slovenian literature in case anyone is struggling with that ...."
Really great, Monique!
Zainab wrote: "Aditi wrote: "....I don't want to plan the entire reading list. I wanna choose as I progress. .... I want to pick up what I want to read when I reach the country."Oh I like the idea of spontaneous travel! I am pretty sure we can do that as long as we travel "correctly" according to our difficulty level. Right Marcos?
Actually, I might do just like you :D
Well, this is new, but right! Of course it is OK.
Remember, we can change the route any time. So, if we can trace a route and then change it, why not trace it step by step?
As you've pointed, we should still follow the rules of our choice of level.
Elizabeth wrote: "Do I have to read the books in the order that I have them listed? I've got a simple list numbered 1 to 6 at the moment but if in the future I read a 7th book that would fit in between books 3 and 4 as they all border each other could I go back and put it in there or do I have to find a way of getting from 6 to 7? "Yes, Elizabeth, you can read in any order. You can insert or delete books / countries as you like, so that would change the reading order anyway.
Jemima wrote: "Is it ok to start with the first 1 or 2 destinations and add to them as I go? It will be more fun for me to be more of a voyage of discovery throughout the year than planning out my entire route in advance. I like the sense of adventure in not knowing everything."Yes, sure. Do that!
Zeljka wrote: "I rearly do challenges but I like this one a lot. Already prepared my route:-)Just don't know how to draw a map on google.."
Dont't worry! ;-) That's not a requirement, but totally optional. I've made other suggestions and will try to find some more.
Megan wrote: "I think this is a great idea, Marcos!"Thanks a lot, Megan!
Kgrinch wrote: "You asked for comments and you're getting push back. I think you should start simple if you want people to do it at all. Don't say next year. It's only Jan 11 now. It's OK to change the plan now. Just saying. ""This is more complicated than it needs to be. KISS "
Hi, Kgrinch!
On your comment on the Alphabet Soup Challenge discussion you said:
"I don't get it. How is this a challenge? A challenge would be to read better books, or more books, or more important books, or more diverse books. More challenging books. Something like that."
Well, that challenge was meant to be simple. You demanded it to be more challenging. This one here, the "Around the World...", was designed to be more challenging. And you want it to be simpler?
Here, by making the planning of the routes difficult, we're forced to examine the possibility of reading from a literature we may not even know yet. That's exactly the idea of more diverse books. Well, if you want it simple, just choose the EASY level.
So, I think we're good like this: simple there (Alphabet), more challenging here (Around the World).
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Alice Munroe is clearly and undisputably Canadian Literature, not American, for instance.
Agatha Christie is clearly British.
Some people may want to split British literature into English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish, and that is completely OK.
What about James Joyce, for instance? Of course Irish, but wrote in the English language in a time Ireland was British (not independent). So, one can place him either in British or in Irish Literature.
Laura, I'm not sure I got what your doubt really was on this topic.
As to Kevin Kwan, it seems to me he is an American author. Moved to the US at age 11, so most of what I said fo R. F. Kuang apllies to him.
This is a view reinforced by this phrase about him in Wikipedia: "Moving to the United States has westernized his view of Asia, and he likens himself to "an outsider looking in" when describing his life in Singapore.
But let's see, you are a Canadian. We're ruling off only each reader's own country. So, considering him an American writer, you can read him! :-)
If your doubt is we would be excluding the language, that is certainly not the case. We want to encourage reading other national literatures, in any language. That is why we excluded each one's own country literature, because that wouldn't change anuthing, would be nothing new in one's reading habits :-)