Victorians! discussion
This topic is about
The Picture of Dorian Gray
Archived Group Reads 2019
>
The Picture of Dorian Gray, Week 1: Preface - Chapter 3
date
newest »
newest »
Mod
I love his (Harry's) Faustian Character. very misunderstood one, obviously. I will finish it tomorrow, I truly love this book, I wish that it could be much longer because it's terrific!
I’m most impressed by Henry’s dialogue in chapter one. Wilde wasted none of his wit and brilliance in crafting them, which are almost on a level with Shakespeare’s soliloquies.It almost seems as though the dynamic of Henry-Dorian-Basil has been imitated and parodied in numerous films and cartoons, with the central person (in this case, Dorian), with the devil talking to him on one shoulder, and the angel on the other.
Mod
Now that is quite an accurate portrayal of Henry-Dorian-Basil trio.
Mod
I never thought of it that way, but how aptly put.
Mod
As they entered they saw Dorian Gray. He was seated at the piano, with his back to them, turning over the pages of a volume of Schumann’s “Forest Scenes.” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiizN...)Robert Schumann (1810 – 1856) was a German composer of the Romantic era who also had a mental disorder. Of all the composers he could have chosen, isn’t curious he chose Schumann?
Mod
Right now I don’t see Dorian as innocent so much as childish and petulant. Lord Henry seems less the bored, careless interloper indulging in a social experiment and more predatory. Even Basil seems mostly interested maintaining his model in a state of underdevelopment as a means of retaining his beautiful countenance and his unchallenging companionship.
See? Sour!
And that dinner party struck me as terrifying this time. Yikes!
I’m so glad I get to read your comments! I love the angel/devil analogy. It’s much closer to my previous impressions, so I know my current views are just the results of my jaundiced mood. Funny how much that can affect even something as wonderful as I know this piece of literature to be.
Mod
I don't think you are too far off. The book has incredible depth. Like an onion, it has many layers. Lord Henry predatory? You bet!
Renee, I agree somewhat. It’s easier to pick up things that you didn’t notice as much the first time. This is my third time reading it. I do see Wotton as more predatory, whereas I saw him as bored and saying more than he means. Much as Basil sees him. I think with Dorian, he starts as 1. Naive, then 2.______, and then ends up 3. ______. I’ll leave it blank now so there’s no spoilers for others.
And actually 1. Naive and somewhat childish.
Mod
And I agree with Bruce. At this stage Dorian is naive and childish.
Mod
He is also gullible. Who is so naive that moving into your twenties you haven't even begun to have a discerning mind?
Henry is pompous. Basil is delicate and passive. Dorian is vain.Poor Basil. It was interesting that at the end of chapter two, Basil "flung himself down on a sofa, and a look of pain came into his face". Dorian basically rejected Basil's painting and said he hated it. Then at the end of chapter 3 Dorian just tosses Basil aside. So much for friendship. Basil probably regrets that Dorian met Henry. It feels like this book is a middle school drama except with adults.
Here are some passages said by Henry that kind of resonated:
"All I want to do now is look at life. You may come and look at it with me, if you care to." (end of chapter 3)
"Then commit them over again. he said, gravely. To get back one's youth, one has merely to repeat one's follies." (chapter 3)
Then there is this passage in chapter two but it is written by Wilde himself as a narrative.
“Words! Mere words! How terrible they were! How clear, and vivid, and cruel! One could not escape from them. And yet what a subtle magic there was in them! They seemed to be able to give a plastic form to formless things, and to have a music of their own as sweet as that of viol or of lute. Mere words! Was there anything so real as words?”
Dorian seems to be all the things mentioned. He’s also very rich and doesn’t have to work a day in his life, so doesn’t have to worry about real life like most people.Reading this, like reading books by other authors, I can’t help but believe that at least some of the characters in this book including the central three were inspired by people Wilde knew, or he drew characteristics from people he knew and mixed it around a bit. Wilde moved around in fancy circles and was welcomed by the rich for a time, but he definitely wasn’t crazy about them, and some of this book seems to be a good critique of them.
J.J. there is some middle school drama, and it also is sort of a love triangle, although Wilde couldn’t be explicit about it at the time.
Mod
Mod
The book wasn’t actually something they cited to get him convicted, although I agree, that was an evil law, and a travesty that he went to jail, which killed him in the long run.
Mod
Yes, the letters between him and Douglas were much of what was cited. At least that’s what I remember reading.
There was also a book (fiction) written by someone else that he based on Wilde and Douglas. Also, people who knew Wilde, Douglas, and Wilde’s other partners and ratted him out.
Mod
This is my first time reading this novel, and so far I am really enjoying it! Also, I apologize to being late to the game! I agree with the analogy of the 3 characters and the angel/devil on Dorian's shoulder.
What intrigued me the most was the eloquent dialogue from the characters--especially from Lord Henry-- he delivers very convincing concepts to the other characters it is so enticing yet it is quite manipulative and scheming.
Another thing I thought of that someone mentioned was a love triangle too. Basil portrays himself as protective over Dorian, Lord Henry wants to influence Dorian while Dorian is subjectable.
~Jackie~
Mod
The dialogue does make the novel sing, no question. The way Henry turns conventional wisdom on its head is marvel to behold. Wilde must have known people like it.
Bruce wrote: "I can’t help but believe that at least some of the characters in this book including the central three were inspired by people Wilde knew, or he drew characteristics from people he knew and mixed it around a bit. "My edition of the book (The Picture of Dorian Gray Penguin English Library) has an Introduction by Peter Ackroyd, in which he talks about parallels between the book and Wilde's own life. He was close friends with a painter named Frank Miles whom he met when he was at Oxford, and through him he met the "homosexual aesthete" Lord Ronald Gower; it is thought that they are represented in the novel by Basil Hallward and Lord Henry Wotton.
Mod
Mod
This is a very interesting piece of information, Suki. Thanks for sharing.
Oscar Wilde starts with a meditation of sorts. The artist is the creator of beautiful things and concludes with All art is quite useless.
I found it hard to pull all these diverging thoughts together, so let me ask you which lines did or did not resonate with you?
Chapter 1
The narrative starts in the art studio of Basil Hallward and his visiting friend, Lord Henry Wotton. Basil is looking upon his best work yet, the portrait of Dorian Gray, an extraordinarily handsome young man, it seems. But Basil harbors misgivings despite his effusive accolades in describing Dorian. Dorian, as Henry whittles out of him, has a certain haunting magnetism that Basil isn’t quite comfortable with, yet he needs Dorian to do his best artistic work. Henry gets increasingly curious about Dorian and wants to meet him, but Basil refuses. Then Dorian’s arrival is announced by the butler. Basil beseeches Henry, Don’t spoil him. Don’t try to influence him. Your influence would be bad, to which Henry laughs in his face.
Chapter 2
They meet and Henry looses no time to get his hooks into Dorian. He convinces Dorian that nothing else in life matters but youth – of which he is in the prime of – and everything else is meaningless. Henry’s exhortation reveals a deep-seated and disordered vanity within Dorian. He becomes intensely jealous of his own portrait, for it will never age. It is almost a Faustian Bargain, almost, for he didn’t sell his soul to the devil, but he comes mighty close. At this point Basil wants to destroy the picture but is prevented by Dorian,
Chapter 3
Henry visits his father, George, inquiring if he knows anything about Dorian Gray. He is the grandson of Lord Kelso. His mother was Lady Margaret Devereaux who entered a socially unacceptable match with a lowly officer. We also get a glimpse into Lord Henry Wotton’s family. From all appearances the men, Henry and his father George, tend to be revelers in pleasure and hedonism, and the one woman we got to meet so far, Henry’s aunt Lady Agatha, is involved in philanthropic work.
What are your first impressions of Dorian, Basil, and Henry?
Intertwined in the dialogue are an astounding amount of moral and philosophical statements, usually uttered by Henry. Which passages caught your eye? What do they say about Henry and the world he lures Dorian into? Do some of these statements have a twisted logic?