The Great American Read discussion
This topic is about
The Pillars of the Earth
Pillars of the Earth Q1 2019
>
Pillars of the Earth, Part 1 (of 6)
date
newest »
newest »
Mod
Chapter 1 - was anyone shocked by the last events in chapter one?
Chapter 2 is very interesting with the monks. I really like the character of Philip and I can't wait to see how it progresses. I think you can tell that he will meet Tom again. This is as far as I've gotten.
There were three men "cursed" by the pregnant girl in the prologue. We know one of them by the end of Chapter 2. I might guess one other.
NancyJ wrote: "A lot happens in chapter 1 with Tom the builder and his family, and Ellen and her son Jack. It ends with sadness, and some pretty surprising decisions. Chapter 1 - was anyone shocked by the last ..."
I wasn't shocked by the events. I was quite impressed with the backbone Tom demonstrated and really begins to show what type of character he will be in the story. Just as William's actions foreshadow how his character evolves.
I really like the character of Philip Me too!
Mod
Shocking, yes. (view spoiler)The character development is great. The author was told to give the bad characters some redeeming qualities, but he didn't want to do that with William. He's bad through and through, and so are his parents. While Philip is all good so far.
Tom's son Alfred isn't looking good at this point. Jack is very interesting though.
Mod
Mod
J. wrote: " Tom... I'm not impressed and I don't like him all that much. Prior Phillip, Ellen, and Jack..."
Yes, I really like Philip, Ellen and Jack too, plus the little girl. I think Aliena will be interesting later, but now she seems a bit bratty.
I loved the part with Jack and the bird. Jack is played by Eddie Redmayne in the miniseries; he has such an interesting expressive face!
I was wondering how much of the political/Royal parts of the book are historically accurate. Based on a quick Wikipedia check, I think a lot of it is based on actual events. The period known as "The Anarchy" lasted decades, and so does this book. I like historical fiction, so I'll probably read Penman's books some day. She covers some of the same time period.
I actually really liked the 1st chapter with Tom, his wife, and the kids as they struggled in the woods in the winter. THEN, there was an abrupt change as the next chapter switches to Philip and the monks. I was like 'What!? No! I want to continue with Tom Builder!' LOL. Now, as I am into chapter 4, I am enjoying the massive....SCOPE of the story, with SO many characters, terminology (esp related to the church + architecture), and a lot of history.
I must say that I am really enjoying the book now, and am super glad to be reading it with a group.
One thing-- it might just be me, but I did not think that 12th century was so...civilized, you know? I always thought that the 1100's were a period with more brutality and less civility than what is demonstrated by Ken Follett in this novel.
--Jen from Quebec :0)
Mod
the twelfth century was so... civilized.
."
I know! I really don't have a sense of what life was like in different centuries, other than broad strokes. I always picture the middle ages as being like Monty Python and the Holy Grail, with really dirty people and plagues. ("Bring out your dead.")
It seems civilized but I think it was still pretty dirty in many places, with human waste in the streets, running down to the lower (cheaper) parts of town. (I think that was how he described Salisbury.)
If you haven't gotten to it yet, there is a chapter where a city gets attacked. In addition to killing people, the attackers took food, horses and weapons. I'm not sure what happens to the people then. (Tom and his family leave the city at that point.) It's sad to see how closely religion is tied to politics and wars.
I'm starting to see a few similarities between conditions in this book, and the tv show Game of Thrones.
Hi everyone, I found this group from Nancy's post in another group. I have just finished reading it, I can just copy/paste my comments from that group into the relevant threads here, I hope that's okay:Jan 05, 2019 08:13PM
MK (wisny) | 2865 comments I've just finished Chapter 1, Part 1. I read the preface to the book, by the author, and then a second introduction, a note on the 25th anniversary edition, also by the author.
The two intros/prefaces were both interesting, without being spoilery. I hate when intros discuss the book, as tho you've already read it! The journey the author took, in developing an interest in, then a passion for, medieval cathedral construction, and then the journey the book itself took, in publication, was all quite interesting!
I find the book so far highly readable and engaging. So far I've met Tom and his wife Agnes, his two children Alfred and Martha, and a mother and son they met on the road, Ellen and Jack. Obviously, Ellen is going to be very important to the book! Or ... I think she is. The book opened with the hanging of her husband (husband? that wasn't exactly clear), and her cursing those who condemned him.
Agnes was a wonderful character. I was sad when she died.
One jarring note in the chapter, was when Ellen told Tom and Agnes that Martha would 'puke' when she awoke from being concussed on the road (the piglet theft). It made me stop, and say 'really? ... puked? did they use that word in the 1100s?', but I kept reading. I found when I finished the chapter an hour or so later it was still in my mind. I went back and did a search for the word, then looked it up using the dictionary function (I'm reading on kindle). The word origin is traced to the 16th century, with the earliest known record of it being in one of Shakespeare's works.
So, I dunno, I think Follett missed by about 400 yrs on that word, what do you think? :p
Jan 05, 2019 08:14PMMK (wisny) | 2865 comments BTW, I'm pretty sure I have this on audible, too. If so, I'm going to have a listen, after I've finished reading. I think this might make for a long, satisfying 'hear'. :)
Jan 06, 2019 08:45AMMK (wisny) | 2865 comments ... I'm halfway through Chapter 2, Part 1. I've met Prior Philip, and his brother Francis. And Philip met Tom, Ellen, Alfred, Martha and Jack on the road. Philip was just leaving the bishop's palace, after talking with the archdeacon who was in the very first scene, at the hanging. The family was coming in the gate, and the archdeacon looked shocked at the approach of Ellen. Philip's on the road to Knightsbridge now, at the point I'm at.
Jan 06, 2019 09:00AMMK (wisny) | 2865 comments Arrghhh ... someone recently posted about a book that centered around the downing of The White Ship, the ship that carried King Henry's heir, and a bunch of other nobles. I thought I put it in my TBR, but I can't find it now. I was thinking I might like to read it, after this book, since all the 'games of thrones' being referred to at this point in Pillars is precipitated by Henry naming his daughter Maud heir (Henry just died, and Stephen has been crowned king, and has the support of the Church, but a bunch of Earls are plotting a rebellion).
Does anyone happen to know the book I might be referring to? :p
Jan 06, 2019 10:21AMMK (wisny) | 2865 comments Finished Chapter 2, Part 1. The Prior of Knightsbridge is dead, the Bishop is dead too. Elections for both positions, one held, one looming. Secular politics has nothing on Church politics! :o
Jan 06, 2019 08:53PMMK (wisny) | 2865 comments oops, Kingsbridge, not Knightsbridge ... I don't know why I keep writing that. I keep 'reading' it that way to myself, as well :o
Jan 07, 2019 02:25AMMK (wisny) | 2865 comments I guess I'm about where you are, Susie, maybe just past. I just finished Chapter 4, Part 1.
Chapter 5 is the beginning of Part 2 (yrs 1136-1137).
By the end of Part 1 (yrs 1135-1136), I think we've met everyone from the earlier (yr 1123) opening hanging scene now, except the sherriff (or did we meet him, and I missed it?).
Besides the woman who cursed the four who condemned the prisoner to die,
there was a knight (fleshy man, yellow hair: Hamleigh the father),
a priest (sharp nose and lank, black hair: first archdeacon, now bishop-elect Waleren Bigod),
a monk (older, tall, thin, sat as if life were a wearisome burden to him: now-deceased Prior James),
and the sherriff, who was only described as a familiar figure to the villagers gathered to watch the hanging.
The condemned man is still a mystery, his appearance and coloring being described as unusual, and his speech, when he spoke, was Norman French, the language of the lords.
I'm not clear on how the monk, sub-Prior Remigius, knows Ellen so well. He's the wrong age (now) to have been the monk from 1123 (who I think was the recently-deceased Prior James.
Back to Tom Builder and his family. Alfred the son, seemed a different character by the end of Chapter 2, then he came across at first, through Chapter 1. I didn't get the sense of his being cruel, or a bully, until Ellen pointed out the way he behaved towards the children, Martha and Jack. And then when you got a little of Martha's and Jack's POV, you realized he was in fact everything she said, and maybe more.
Nancy and Jen, it all depends on who (and what) you're talking about when you talk civilised in the 12th Century. The wealthy were quite civilised. They ate meat, drank wine and ale, and washed every day (although not like we do)...there was even indoor plumbing. But they saw nothing immoral in basically keeping slaves (although it worked a bit differently than slavery as we're used to hearing about) and "owning" their wife and children, as well as their workers (the ones who weren't tied to the land, that is).The poor, which was most of the population, had it rough. They ate a mostly vegetarian diet (and not an overly healthy one), had no indoor plumbing, and their overlord could pretty much take what he wanted in the way of "taxes". If it was a bad year, that could lead to starvation.
Mod
But you've probably finished the book and figured it out if these are comments from a different read.
J. wrote: "MK, my best thoughts are Remigius was one of the children in the opening scene? But you've probably finished the book and figured it out if these are comments from a different read."
The book was compulsively readable, I read it all in about a week :p.
I did figure it out, but I won't say here in this Part, because it comes later in the book :).
I have some other books that are due back at the library, but after those, I'm hoping to do a re-read via listening to the audible.
Mod
Thanks Parker. Some things never change. The majority of the wealth is controlled by a small percentage of the people. I wonder if there has ever been a time in history when that wasn't true.
By some standards, William was the least civilized person in the book despite his wealth. Even when he was courting a high born girl he was crude and grabby. Later on he turns out to be the most cruel and violent character in the book.
I really like the book and am making steady progress!
Mod
Great! Do you have a favorite character or scene? Hmm, is "scene" even the correct word when talking about a book?
MK wrote: "Hi everyone, I found this group from Nancy's post in another group. I have just finished reading it, I can just copy/paste my comments from that group into the relevant threads here, I hope that's ...""Puke" stood out for me because it's slang and slang always feels modern. If the author wrote the words they used in 1100 we might not understand it at all. Think about Shakespeare. That was closer to our time but it's hard to understand. Found this on LingoJam:
Modern: "These coins will be needed to pay his debt"
Shakespeare: "These chinks shall beest did need to payeth his debt."
There are other things I thought were anachronisms about the church. When Philip starts preaching in English instead of Latin, he says it's the new way. I thought many Catholic churches were still preaching mostly in Latin in the early 20th century.
So I am actually reading Rebecca with this group but I’ve read Pillars years ago and loved the writing so much that I HAD to peek in here and see what others thought about it! 🤣
Mod
Glad to hear you liked it! Jump in with some comments. If you have spoilers, go to the thread for Part 6.
Mod
I started my re-read via audible tonight.I was so sure I had the audible in my library already! Turns out, it was a different Ken Follett book :p. I had to use up a credit by the end of March, or else I'd lose it, so I spent a credit on Pillars.
Am on Chapter 2 - Tom Builder's family just encountered the pig thief in the forest, and met Ellen and Jack, when Ellen came out of the forest to help tend to little Martha.
List one or more of your favorite characters or aspects of part one.