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A Popular Defense of the Bible and Christianity
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A delicate balance between belief and unbelief
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My response: The GOSPEL is God's POWER unto salvation.
The Gospel lacks nothing and the message of Jesus can bring the dead to life
Thus, when presented with God's power unto salvation... the hearer can make a choice!
Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
John 12:32 - And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me .
I think you’ve struck at the heart of a fundamental truth of God’s kingdom. The last shall be first and the first shall be last. As indicated in Romans 1, all mankind is imbued with an innate knowledge of God manifest both in creation and conscience. The enemy, however, has set before us a thousand flavors of deceit so that, should we desire the world more than we desire knowledge of God, we’ll be greatly aided in this delusion. “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” I believe God to be just and gracious and, as such, He will give faith to any who seek Him.
To Robert...good scriptural confirmation.To Adam...good comment. I think this idea that the delicate balance between belief and unbelief...could only come from God...and be tweaked and maintained over the centuries...so that one does not over-power the other...needs more attention and discussion as a proof of its divine origin.
Also that our innate capacity for intellectual analysis matches perfectly the depth and subtlety of the issues of love, faith, trust, truth...which are deeply embedded within human experience.
Quite profound and amazing when we think about it.
This could never be the product of naturalistic materialism...of blind, mindless, indifferent accident.
The gift of amounts of Faith given to the dead sinner. Use it or lose it. Matthew 13:12
12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
God doesn't just Give - He also will take away.
John 1231 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.
32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.
I wouldn't quickly say this is about salvation and choice. But judgement
Mod
My response: Judgment mandates various outcomes (sheep and goats from the Biblical perspective.)
Salvation is ONE of those outcomes.
Mod
...with NO private interpretations or personal commentary ADDED!
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John 12:32 - "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME ."
Titus 2:11 - "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men ,"
Romans 10:13 - "For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved ."
Romans 1:16 - "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the POWER of God unto SALVATION to EVERY ONE that BELIEVETH ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 12:3- "...but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to EVERY MAN the measure of FAITH ."
Colossians 1:20 - "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross , by him to RECONCILE ALL THINGS unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things IN EARTH, or things IN HEAVEN."
1 John 2:2 - "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and NOT FOR OURS ONLY , but ALSO for the SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD ."
Romans 11:32 - "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief , that he might have MERCY UPON ALL ."
2 Corinthians 5:19 - "To wit, that God was in Christ, RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF , not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."
John 1:29 - "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKETH AWAY the SIN OF THE WORLD ."
MarK 16:15 - "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and PREACH THE GOSPEL TO EVERY CREATURE."
1 Timothy 2:4 - " Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED , and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance ."
Robert you know better: never make theology out of single verses. Context context context...
All of those verses have interesting context Robert. Especially Romans 11
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Mod
Especially Romans 11
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upo..."
My response: And I don't have to ADD my opinions to force them to say what I want... I just believe what they actually say.
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My response: And NOT ONE of them says that God does NOT legitimately offer salvation to ALL.
To Rod and Robert...there is not a scintilla of the LOVE of the truth in either of your comments.Rod...you asked about 6 months ago why so few Christians participate in these group discussions.
The partial reason...in my opinion...is you and Robert.
Why don't you take your personal feud off Goodreads...and into your personal emails?
I took about six months off social media to regroup...and come back and post a comment yesterday...and one day later the two of you are off the topic and using this space to go at one another.
Sorry to be brutally honest here...but you are both "in the flesh."
Speaking for myself...you are ruining the experience of the discussion of issues and questions here in this group.
I would very much like to hear Christians and non-Christians thoughtfully and politely weigh-in on the current questions I posed on a delicate balance between belief and unbelief...and how a perfect person Jesus could make it all the way to the cross...as apologetic evidences for the divine origin of the Bible.
Both of you discourage other people from participating...by your ongoing personal feud...in post after post.
As a Christian it makes me very sad to even have to say this...the second day into entering into participating in this Christian Readers Group.
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My response: I quoted MORE than a DOZEN Bible verses…
...and you say quote: "there is not a scintilla of the LOVE of the truth"
All I can say to that is thanks for your OPINION.
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My response: thanks for your OPINION.
On what Scripture do you base this judgment?
The Bible says that only God knows the heart of man... do you know my heart?
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My response: I quoted 13 of them!
You have quoted NONE that clearly state that God does NOT legitimately offer salvation to everyone.
I thought this was about belief and unbelief? Love is a whole bigger discussion. I though I was being very nice and kind to Robert. Just scholarly.
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I though I was being very nice and kind to Robert. Just scholarly."
My response: Scholarly would not involve the refutation of multiple Scriptures in order to uphold an eisegetical preconception.
I'm always up for a nice chat. I'm happy if anyone is chatting here. There's very little of it. You could blame certain people - but I've seen 100's of interesting questions die quick and "ignored" deaths even without Robert or myselfOther than atheists and Muslims : most people have little interest in deep biblical discussions. (I'm in 5 groups and that's the general behavior).
But this belief and unbelief is a good and deep Biblical theme. Dangerous as well... as we Can see. The distribution of faith is my current Biblical passion.
1 Barton; Redemption is physical, that leaves no debate for belief or unbelief. It is beyound question the debate mentioned They are wasting their time and energy. Along with faith, grace, believe, etc. has nothing to do with salvation. If there wasn't an established false doctrine in place from Satan, you would have already heard of the books that I have written with the truth.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will ldo. He was a mudered from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (St John 8:44)
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” - John 3:6
Sorry Barton, looks like your question has taken on a new life.
21 Adam, John 3:6 is correct but Jesus spoke allegorically I had to go to Ezekiel 36:26 to get the answer. "A new Heart also will I give you, and a new Spirit will I put within you:"
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Yet another OPINION from Mickey.
Ezekiel the PROPHET spoke PROPHETICALLY.
(Ezekiel was NOT a doctor speaking physically.)
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BOTTOM LINE: Believe Jesus or believe Mickey... I am with JESUS!
I can surely identify with Ezekiel, in the KJB of 1611. "Ezekiel warned his people about the impending doom of Jerusalem. His opening chapter made him conscious of the presence of God in the midst of a heathen environment."If you don't believe me as Elijah, God is going to bring a curse on the earth. I have been at it for fifty years starting 12/1/1968 at 9pm. (Malachi 4:6)
Jesus never had a doctor degree either, but it is the power of God that does the work or the Spirit that has been with God from the beginning.
I was the top student in a carpenter vocational school that should count for something? Take a finnish nail the pointy end goes down.
When the stars fall from heaven Robert you better duck.
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My response: Ohhh... a warning from a FALSE PROPHET!
When Jesus says John the Baptist is Elijah... and you say that YOU ARE...
That is ALL I need to know!
Is the all-time best baseball player the one with the most homeruns in a season, the most career homeruns, the most career hits, the most career RBI’s, played in the most World Series wins, was MVP the most times, had the lowest career ERA, the most wins pitching, the most strikeouts in a season, and on and on?
We would not get any five people to agree on this question.
When John C. Lennox or William Lane Craig publically debate Richard Dawkins on a subject like: Is God a Delusion?...even though I would rate the debate an 80/20 or a 90/10 win for Lennox or Craig…the outcome is not a 100-percent resolution of the question being discussed. Richard Dawkins comes into the debate thinking that he is right…and win or lose according to the audience vote-tally…he walks away still thinking he is right.
It appears that human beings were created with an incredibly deep and sophisticated capacity for intellectual and moral judgment…and that many issues and questions in life are difficult to parse…do not lend themselves to absolute, straightforward conclusions.
In other words…we were created with an advanced ability for evaluating intellectual and moral issues…that matches the reality of the subtlety of issues themselves…love, truth, fidelity, being trustworthy, being dependable…the real definition of being holy…and central to biblical faith…he delicate balance between belief and unbelief.
In Jesus not walking down Main Street in Jerusalem and straight into the temple…on Tuesday or Wednesday after Resurrection morning…thereby not taking the opportunity to empirically prove through absolute evidence that He is the Christ…God is setting up the context for both belief and unbelief to continue…down through the coming centuries.
This sets up a context for accepting or rejecting Jesus Christ on something higher than mere recognition of an empirically observable fact…like the existence of the noonday sun in the sky.
Is this delicate balance between belief and unbelief…a Christian apologetic evidence for the divine origin of the Bible…and of Christianity?
Do we indeed have the innate ability to make an informed choice to accept Jesus Christ as Savior…from the head and the heart…for the right reasons…beyond visible, empirical proof (Jn. 20:29)?