Series: Death Gate Cycle by Margaret Weis ("Dragon Wing")

[Melanie, the neutral party]

This will be the thread for a buddy read of The Death Gate Cycle. I figured we should plan on 1 book a month; so that, the reading does not become daunting.

Is this schedule okay? Who's in?

January 2019: Dragon Wing
February-ish 2019: Elven Star
March (mostly) 2019: Fire Sea
late April 2019: Serpent Mage
May 2019: The Hand of Chaos
June 2019: Into the Labyrinth
July 2019: The Seventh Gate

Don't forget to mark spoilers and to label which book each post is referring to.

[Bobby]

I'm in! That schedule sounds good to me.

[Bobby]

I actually got all 7 of them used for a really good deal, and I will be starting the first one pretty soon.

[Joon]

I'll give it a shot...I never did read these and I've been wanting something that would remind me of the fantasy I read growing up.

Bummer they aren't on Audible though.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

I've only just started Dragon Wing. It is a quite the classic fantasy opening, so I was surprised when I learned (view spoiler)[the mother is in on the assassination of the young prince. (hide spoiler)] It, of course, jumped to a completely different world after that, which I consider good storytelling in terms of audience engagement.

I like it thus far.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Started Dragon Wing, though I'm not very far in. I actually read this series years ago, but I remember very little about it, so I'm looking forward to digging into the reread.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Just finished the first section with the Geg guy. Forget his name.

It was interesting, but I'm glad to be getting back to Hugh. Looking forward to the two pieces coming together.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "Looking forward to the two pieces coming together."

I'm a little ahead of that but not by much. I agree. I am quite curious about how they will intersect, espcially (view spoiler)[Halpo from the prologue (hide spoiler)].

Questions about the low realm: (view spoiler)[Are we supposed to assume that it is a dystopian broken earth? Too much of the terminology is overtly from industrial Earth- Factry, manager, etc. (hide spoiler)]?

Interesting quotes:
(view spoiler)["They only looked within. Limbeck liked to look without-"
"Martyrdom was not starting out well." (hide spoiler)].

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Melanie wrote: "Questions about the low realm: (view spoiler)?"


That's what I'm presuming, yes.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I'm around 50% in, give or take. Hugh & Co just (view spoiler)[landed on Devlin (I think), so the stories are going to start intertwining.

I think I would've liked to see more of the Geg's initial reaction to Haplo, instead of it sort of seeming to happen off-page, though. (hide spoiler)]

[Melanie, the neutral party]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I'm around 50% in, give or take.

I'm pretty much at the same place. I'm hoping to finish this book over the weekend.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I'm up to 68%. Things are moving a bit slowly, but I'm interested to see where they're heading.

Quote that I liked: (view spoiler)["She had, it seemed, peeked through a crack and caught a glimpse of Truth down there in the tunnels... Truth wasn't something you went out and found. It was wide and vast and deep and unending, and all you could hope to see was a tiny part of it. And to see that part and to mistake it for the whole was to make of Truth a lie." (hide spoiler)]

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Finished this last night - giving it 3 stars. I wish there was a bit more resolution in this book. This is definitely an arc which is meant to be read as an arc, and not really 7 standalone books.

I was a bit sad that (view spoiler)[Hugh died. I was hoping to see more of him throughout the series, and I wish the thing with Iridal (sp?) wasn't so hamfisted insta-lovey. (hide spoiler)]

I'm definitely curious to see where things go from here and, if I recall, I do remember thinking the series had a bit of a slow start when I first read it and it gets better as it progresses.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "Finished this last night - giving it 3 stars. I wish there was a bit more resolution in this book. This is definitely an arc which is meant to be read as an arc, and not really 7 standalone books. ..."

Sorry, I left you hanging. I got caught up in work stuff and like you mentioned the story was good but not necessarily compelling.

I marked that same quote also. M Weis and T Hickman do put philosophical questions/comments in their work. It is part of why I like their writing. Also, (view spoiler)[Hugh was my favorite character too. His character had the best story arch. Once we got to the part where they went up to the mysteriarchs, it was just way too late in the story to truly introduce new characters and make you care about them. That is probably why Iridal's character was so weak and underdeveloped. (hide spoiler)]

I will probably start book 2 the second week of February. I still have to pick it up from my friend's library.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

I plan on starting Elven Star this weekend if anyone is still with me.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I'm in, but I'm way behind on all my reads, so it won't be this weekend for me.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I'm in, but I'm way behind on all my reads, so it won't be this weekend for me."

I can wait if you want to pick a start time. (I certainly have a stack of other book I can read.)

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I can probably start next weekend, after I finish my current book, if I shift it up in front of Brown Girl in the Ring.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

Sounds great!

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Didn't get much done this weekend, so just started Elven Star this morning. Not very far in, but I'm finding it interesting how, because of the differing worlds, it feels like an entirely separate story, so far, instead of part of the series.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

I pretty much feel, the same way you do. I’m only 2 chapters in. I think the plot will speed up too once Haplo arrives.

I am having difficulty visualizing the world. I was going to do some googling for art work when I’m not at my job. If I can figure out how to post a picture, I’ll share if I find something helpful.

A read Dragon Wing as an e-book. I have a paper back this time. There’s sheet music in the back! I want to check that out too when I get enough free time with a piano.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I'm pretty sure there was sheet music in the back of Dragon Wing, too, but I'd have to double check to be sure.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Still early days, just finishing Chapter 5, but I'm anxious for things to start picking up and tying in with the larger story.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Chaptet 8. Ok, I really like the dragon. And, (view spoiler)[Hey, hey, it's Haplo (hide spoiler)].

[Melanie, the neutral party]

Chapter 4: That was definitely the best (view spoiler)[dragon entrance ever (hide spoiler)]! I'm hooked.

Chapter 7: Some thoughts on characters. (view spoiler)[The wizard character is reading too much like Fizban (the wizard from the Dragon Lance Chronical books, written by the same authors). I might enjoy him more if I wasn't stuck thinking him unoriginal. His presence has definitely spiced up the dialog and internal monologues. The rest of the characters are all kind of meh. They all fit the world, but I'm not in love with any of them, except of course the dragon. (hide spoiler)]

Research results: I couldn't find pictures that were clearly labeled Fire World. There is a lot of art for Death gate cycle, but telling which world is which, I'm not confident enough to discern. The writing has me imagining a huge forest with flat tree tops which doesn't mesh in my brain with FIRE world. So I'm going to just let that go.

There is apparently a video game based on the Death gate cycle, so there were a lot of video game stills for some settings and the main characters too. The game looks quite epic and fun.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

Chapter 11: Fun references to famous wizards.
(view spoiler)[“Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.” ― (Gandolf) J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
Merlin- snazzy dresser
Raistlin- Mage from Dragonlance books (hide spoiler)]

Questions (that likely won't be answered 'till much later):
(view spoiler)[Is this supposed to imply a multi-verse? Is it connecting it to OUR Earth like the factree of the first book? Or was it just meant to be fun? (hide spoiler)]
(view spoiler)[I think Zifnab is the Sartan of this world. (hide spoiler)]

Chapters 13+
I love how the locations are just titled: "Somewhere"

I'm @ Chapter 16 now (view spoiler)[waiting for Haplo to arrive. (hide spoiler)]

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I keep forgetting to update here. I'm on Chapter 25.

I'm finding the pacing sort of herky jerky. Things will be going along for awhile, and then we get into a phase of sort of treading water. A lot seems to happen off-page, too - which also seemed to happen in the first book.

Re your spoilers, I am guessing there's some (view spoiler)[multi-verse stuff going on. There was the reference to the wizards, and also Wizard of Oz, and all the references from the first book. They also talk about the original world having a moon and whatnot, so I'm guessing if it's not Earth exactly, since our fictional wizards are described as real, it's at least some sort of Earth analog. (hide spoiler)]


I'm also getting distracted by the Call a Rabbit a "Smeerp" things. Like, I get that they're trying to make it seem all other, but when there's a bunch of normal words and then all of a sudden we need to use dialect to describe something, which then gets defined normally in the footnotes, is making me roll my eyes.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I'm also getting distracted by the Call a Rabbit a "Smeerp" things. Like, I get that they're trying to make it seem all other, but when there's a bunch of normal words and then all of a sudden we need to use dialect to describe something, which then gets defined normally in the footnotes, is making me roll my eyes.
"

Yes, this!! I agree a lot. And you taught me a new idiom.
I agree about the story's pacing too. I'm at the halfway mark.

My only new observation is that Zifnab and Fizban are the same letters. I can't believe this is an accident.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Melanie wrote: "My only new observation is that Zifnab and Fizban are the same letters. I can't believe this is an accident. "


I would imagine not. It's probably either going to be the same character, or AU version of the character, or else it's just an easter egg... but there's no way it could be accidental.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Almost done. Roughly 30 pages to go.

The romances are kind of killing me.

[Bingbong]

I would absolutely love to read it again!!! I read the series as they were published in the 1990s. I know i am 2 books behind but i will catch up. Cant wait!!

[Melanie, the neutral party]

Adrie wrote: "I would absolutely love to read it again!!! I read the series as they were published in the 1990s. I know i am 2 books behind but i will catch up. Cant wait!!"

Welcome! Coleen and I have been doing the literary buddy thing. We'll love a third opinion in the mix.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Melanie wrote: "Welcome! Coleen and I have been doing the literary buddy thing. We'll love a third opinion in the mix."


Absolutely :)

[Melanie, the neutral party]

I’m not quite finished yet, but I should finish tomorrow of the day after. There are a couple of inconstancies that are irking me. I’ll list them when I’m at a computer and can use spoiler tags. Overall this book was better than book one, but still flawed in its own special ways.

[Bingbong]

I had a bit of a busy week, so only halfway through book 1, I don't remember anything from reading it way back when.... but i do remember it being better! I have such fond memories of Weis and Hickman that i am slightly disturbed by it not being as good as i remember. After Death gate cycle i want to re-read the twins book again. I have such fond memories of Raistlin and Brother(oops!!)

Next week I will read book 2 and 3 and then I will be with you girls!!! Happy reading!!

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Adrie wrote: "I had a bit of a busy week, so only halfway through book 1, I don't remember anything from reading it way back when.... but i do remember it being better! "


I'm sort of having the same experience for my reread. Especially after the second book.

But I also remember it being more philosophical, and my husband says that doesn't really kick in until book 3, so early days yet.

[Bingbong]

Thats excellent news Colleen. I will keep at it!!! Thanks

[Melanie, the neutral party]

Thoughts on the end of the book:
(view spoiler)[I am totally not buying into the romances. I just feel like they both are not genuine. The character development was much better in the first book.

I love that the wizard if the dragon’s apprentice! I kind of saw that coming. I definitely did not believe Zifnab was dead. I am uncertain about the label of that crew being the best and the brightest. It's more likely they are what's left to work with.

Wholly blatant foreshadowing with the last paragraph Batman! (hide spoiler)] Even though I am finding many flaws with the writing, I like the story line and want to finish the series.

Inconsistencies that are bothering me:
(view spoiler)[1. The ship named Dragon Wing was wrecked and Haplo made off with the Elven Watership, so why is this ship named Dragon Wing (that it's later renamed Dragons Star by Zifnab makes sense)

2. If their hair is a dead giveaway to their race (Sartan vs Patyrn) why does Haplo work so hard to conceal his runes and wouldn't Alfred and he pegged each other right away? It was never mentioned in the first story, mention and then forgotten in this story.

3. I STILL don’t see how this is a fire world. It’s hot because of the four suns but not classically fire. (hide spoiler)]

More questions and predictions … because I can’t help myself.
(view spoiler)[1. Why didn’t the initial world not have a citadel like all of the rest?

2. The Sartan and the Patyrn are dying off because they need each other to exist. By exiling the Patyrn, the Sartan doomed their own race.

3. Is the ancient “power” Christianity or something similar? Zifnab has obviously allude to living on a modern Earth.

4. If Zifnab is the dragon’s apprentice, is Haplo the dog’s apprentice unknowingly? (hide spoiler)]

Haplo and the Dog:
(view spoiler)[Haplo’s character is insidious in that as the only character that crosses over between the books, his kind of the hero. But it is probably very wrong to think of him in that way since is is overtly evil. I find myself liking him all the same. (hide spoiler)]

[Melanie, the neutral party]

Coleen and Adrie (I know you are still catching up),

When would you like to start the third book?

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I'm probably going to finish my current book either tonight or tomorrow, so I could start within a day or two.

I'd also be happy to wait for Adrie to catch up and pick it back up in April.

I'd be good either way.

[Bingbong]

Hi Coleen and Melanie. I am still busy with the second book. Thank you for waiting. I will finish it in about 2 days. I will fall in with whatever you decide.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

I can easily wait. Adrie, we’ll let you call it.

[Bingbong]

I am happy to say i am enjoying book 2!!!!! I was so worried that i had to struggle through a book to get to book 3 and on where i know the series will get better!!! Fiznab is adding a nice bit of comic relief!!!

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I didn't really understand how the world was (view spoiler)[the fire world, either. But the last world didn't seem entirely like air, to me. I mean, the floating places did, but we spent a lot of time with the dwarves underground, so... (hide spoiler)] I guess we'll see once they all tie together?

I've started another book, but I'll probably be read to start Fire Sea early next week, give or take.

[Melanie, the neutral party]

Sounds great!

[Bingbong]

Hi!! Just finished book 2.

I enjoyed the story!! I can see where they are trying to take the story with the imperfect races. Human elves and dwarves. BUT a slutty elf...........hmmmmm no i didnt like that!! Not enough different trates for different races...all the same. Elves just taller and skinnier, dwarves that would die to save the last dwarve burns with lust to kill the others.....no!!!

Character development way too shallow to make the romance believable!!

Melanie i so agree with what you said about the hair!!! Surely Haplo doesnt need to cover his hands if his hair is a dead giveaway!! And Alfreds hair was never even mentioned!!

I did enjoy Fiznab and his dragon!! Enjoyed all the reference to starwars, LOTR, stockmarket ect. Was it just for humours sake or? Dont know. But it was a relief!!

I am happy to start next week with book three.

I am interested

[Melanie, the neutral party]

Adrie

FYI, since people necropst in this book club, it’s a good idea to use spoiler tags for discussions that give away plot points. It’s just us now, but someone might join up in the future.

Glad to hear your thoughts!

Also, The next book cover is the most exciting so far.

[Bingbong]

Thank you Melanie.
I am using the goodreads app on my phone at the moment and i dont think you can add spoiler allerts on phone. But i will definitely remember that. I wont comment on books until i have access to a pc!
Thank you!!!

[Dawn F]

You can write the tags manually, hiding text behind these two tags (minus spaces): “< spoiler >” text to hide “< / spoiler >”, but no you cannot click and open spoiler tags to read them from your phone.

[Bingbong]

Thank you Dawn. Trying it now "(view spoiler)["just trying" (hide spoiler)]"