"China Mountain Zhang" First Impressions *No Spoilers*

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Here is the first impression thread for our sci fi runner up winner! So! What do you think?

Please remember to hold onto thoughts on specific plot points, character development and anything else spoilery for the full spoiler thread opening on the 7th.

[Cheryl]

I've read this twice. Enjoy, y' all!

[Alex]

Not far in, but it's interesting. I keep having Jimmy Soul running through my head, though...

If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So from my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you

Don't let your friends say you have no taste
Go ahead and marry her anyway
Though her face is ugly, her eyes don't match
Take it from me, she's a better catch

[M.L.]

I started this one too. I liked the writing, the characters, but kind of wondering if anything life-threatening is going to happen. I hope so, soon.

[Anna]

It does start a bit slow, but it's totally worth it!

[Tomislav]

I read this 20 years ago when it was relatively new, and went on to read all of Maureen McHugh's other novels, and one story collection. Great choice for the category! Really looking forward to the re-read.

China Mountain Zhang (1992)
Half the Day is Night (1994)
Mission Child (1998)
Nekropolis (2001)

After the Apocalypse (2011)

[Oleksandr]

I plan to start it in a few days. What surprised me is that according to GR there is no audio version - I assumed that all recent books good enough to be nominated for Nebula award (it was in 1993; it also won a few other awards) will have it.

[Christopher]

Interesting so far, very different from most of our sci-fi selections in that the story is very ordinary despite a speculative setting, am genuinely curious where it's going.

[Amanda]

M.L. wrote: "I started this one too. I liked the writing, the characters, but kind of wondering if anything life-threatening is going to happen. I hope so, soon."

This is kind of where I'm at. i started it yesterday and I'm enjoying the characters and worldbuilding but the story has yet to really grab me.

[Mareike]

Just finished the first chapter and am enjoying this so far. I like her style of writing and the world she's created, and all the implications that has.

[Becky]

I’m enjoying this so far. The characters are believable and complicated like real people are. It’s not ultra sci-fi, although it is in a future world, the emphasis is on social rather than the technological advances. These stories will be relatable to anyone that has relocated to a strange new place and trying to make a new life there.

[Christopher]

I agree. About a quarter of the way through I’m getting a vibe similar to Becky Chambers’ novels.

[Anna]

Christopher wrote: "About a quarter of the way through I’m getting a vibe similar to Becky Chambers’ novels."

Interesting! I'd ask why, but the answer would probably be spoilery.

[Christopher]

My vague answer would just be that this reminded me of Chambers (more specifically Record of a Spaceborn Few) in that so far it primarily deals with characters who aren’t galactic emperors, generals, or cyber samurai, but just regular people with regular people’s concerns who happen to be living in a futuristic setting. Of course this is only 25% in, this vibe could easily change!

[Anna]

Hmm yes I see what you mean. I always associate Chambers with a feel-good read, which this wasn't for me, that's why I thought it was surprising.

[Michael]

Yeah, I can see how this is like Becky Chambers' Wayfarers universe, although space always gives me instant sci-fi vibes in a way that jacked-in kite racing doesn't, though I suppose it should. I can see that China Mountain Zhang is science fiction, but definitely more people/internal-thoughts-centered, despite all the futuristic developments that surround them but are only casually mentioned. I read Maureen F. McHugh's Mission Child, which was based on her short story. The short story (The Cost To Be Wise) was phenomenal and I highly recommend it. The novel had its plusses and I'm glad I read it, but I was surprised by how little happened in the book. It seems this author may be more geared to ruminations and character studies, though who knows she could surprise me.

I like that everything is China-centered, which reminds me of the Firefly universe and the future world there. I'm having some aha! moments on the little bit of Mandarin that I know.

Finally, I like the occasional vocabulary words that she has invented, for example "flimsies" and "flash". These are the kind of words that are realistic, people would call things this and you wouldn't know what they were except in context because they don't really describe what they are or how they work. (Remember Star Trek "communicators"? Who would call their "cell" a "communicator" ha ha). The down side is that you are not getting much "how they work" science, so the science geek part of my brain is suffering...

[Rose]

I'm intrigued by the world that's being crafted here, and interested to see what's happening to this first character, but the writing style is doing my head in.

I just feel like there's no rhythm or sentence variation? I feel like if I were to read this out loud, everything would be very staccato. It's just a lot of short, unaffected sentences, and it's not making for a very interesting reading experience, in my opinion. I usually don't enjoy first person present tense in general, so that combined with the consistently short sentences so far is a bit grating.

[Cheryl]

It does take a bit of warming up to.

[Anna]

I'm really sorry I forgot to tell Allison to add content warnings for this book. I had a busy November, and it completely slipped my mind. In case someone is still debating, here are the content warnings:

(view spoiler)[homophobia, mental health issues, suicide, sexual assault (hide spoiler)]

I personally feel that it is all handled beautifully, and despite some of the heavy subjects it's more an emotional read than traumatic. But obviously that is just my experience, and everyone can judge for themselves.

[Cheryl]

Good point. I will say that I'm usually pretty sensitive, but still I have read this twice I loved it so much.

[Monica]

I'm about 20% in and I am surprised by how much I am enjoying the book. I didn't expect to be drawn in so quickly. Admittedly I am a characterization type of reader so right now, this is right up my alley. As usual, my end of the year books seem to be the ones that capture my imagination. Probably won't be the last book I read this year but currently it bodes for a strong finish to a middling reading year...

[Dawn F]

Rose wrote: "I'm intrigued by the world that's being crafted here, and interested to see what's happening to this first character, but the writing style is doing my head in.

I just feel like there's no rhythm or sentence variation? I feel like if I were to read this out loud, everything would be very staccato. It's just a lot of short, unaffected sentences, and it's not making for a very interesting reading experience, in my opinion. I usually don't enjoy first person present tense in general, so that combined with the consistently short sentences so far is a bit grating.

Interesting, for me it has the opposite effect. I'm a big fan of minimalist writing and that's what I feel she's doing here. I like that she doesn't load the sentences with a lot of emotion or much extra info, it allows me as a reader to experience the text "naked" and have my own natural reactions to it, uncolored by sentiment. I'm the same with film, I cannot stand descriptive film music, like the use of a million violins to describe that this scene is now sad, or quirky fun music to describe something mysterious or curious or uptempo dramatic music to describe action, as if the material I'm watching can't speak for itself or if I'm somehow not clever enough to interpret it. I simply get put off XD

There's a Danish writer, Helle Helle, who is (in)famous for minimalist writing. She has described it that she simply shaves off everything that's unneccesary because actually you need to say very little to communicate what you want to say. It's a form of art for her, though unlike here where I feel the tone of the book is dystopian and ominous, hers is satirical and funny (to me).

But it's very much a personal preference in writing style and not something I come across often, so I'm really happy to have found it in McHugh ;D

[Cheryl]

Helle Helle for a link, as her work sounds intriguing. Another writer who is sort of like this is Clifford D. Simak.

[Jamesboggie]

I just started, and this is an uncomfortable read. Any white American who claims to not understand systemic racism should read this book.

[Sabrina]

I’ve never heard of this book before, so I have no idea what it really is about. I started it after I read some comments in this thread because I like character-driven and dystopia. Currently, I read the first chapter, so I’m 15% into the book.

I agree, this starts rather slow. I’m also not yet comfortable with the clipped sentences and to a certain degree I miss the distinctive dystopian feeling. So, I’m not yet completely wrapped into the story which is probably good because real-life is so busy at the moment…

[Paul]

I'm about 2/3rd through and getting into this book now. Liking the separate stories more now. It is described as a mosaic novel, a term I'd not heard of before, but I like it.

[Cheryl]

If anybody is still having trouble getting going, here's a bit from my review from when I read it a few months ago:

If you're like me, you might have trouble with the first section. But persist, at least until Baffin Island. Google for images of Baffin Island.

[Sabrina]

Cheryl wrote: "If anybody is still having trouble getting going, here's a bit from my review from when I read it a few months ago:

If you're like me, you might have trouble with the first section. But persist, ..."

I did have troubles with the first section. Unfortunately, Baffin Island did not really help as it was not enough for me to get a feeling of the society. But luckily the next two mosaic stories did it for me: I’m now committed and will look forward to reading “homework”

[Gabi]

I'm only in some pages (4%), but I'm already fully immersed. I like the narration style.

[Dawn F]

Me too, Gabi!

Jamesboggie wrote: I just started, and this is an uncomfortable read. Any white American who claims to not understand systemic racism should read this book.

Exactly! I had no problems with the writing style at all, the only thing that put me off a bit at the beginning was how unlikable Zhang was, he's racist and judgmental, even homophobic, but it makes sense when I understood he's a reflection of the society described in the story.

[Dawn F]

Cheryl wrote: "Helle Helle for a link, as her work sounds intriguing. Another writer who is sort of like this is Clifford D. Simak."

Awesome, thanks a lot! I can see I already had a couple of his books on my tbr list, so someone must have mentioned him to me before.

[Sabrina]

Dawn wrote: "Exactly! I had no problems with the writing style at all, the only thing that put me off a bit at the beginning was how unlikable Zhang was, he's racist and judgmental, even homophobic, but it makes sense when I understood he's a reflection of the society described in the story."

It was not the story itself but more that the dystopian world was actually quite okay. Sure, there were negatives already in the first chapter, but it was one of the few dystopias where I did not get an instant “please world: I never want to get there” feeling.

Maybe it was because for once we get a non-American culture to decide the dystopian society and so I was never quite sure, is this a real culture thing or dystopia? Not sure if I’m explaining this right and hope it’s not too spoilerish, but it’s all about the first chapter.

[Dawn F]

It definitely is kind of dystopian, that's how I see it too, without being overly stereotypical about it. It's more in the subtle, social criticism.

[Oleksandr]

Sabrina wrote: "Maybe it was because for once we get a non-American culture to decide the dystopian society and so I was never quite sure, is this a real culture thing or dystopia?."

I guess it depends on the definition of dystopia. For me this book isn't - we don't see our real world as dystopian (at least I don't) and there are currently in some countries the situation is worse

[Gabi]

40% in and so far so much down my line - it's just great!

[Dawn F]

Woohoo!

[Cheryl]

Oleksandr wrote: "it depends on the definition of dystopia. For me this book isn't - we don't see our real world as dystopian (at least I don't) and there are currently in some countries the situation is worse ..."

I've actually been thinking about this quite a bit lately. At what point do we realize that our fears are coming true, and that we're living in a world that people of a previous era would have considered a dystopia? But otoh, we look back at previous eras and admit that we wouldn't want to live then, and so maybe those were dystopias, too?

Maybe any era has both good and bad? Or maybe the term dystopia should be reserved for certain kinds of widespread misery?

Maybe this is a separate topic that I should start for the group, not just for the readers in this thread?

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Merriam-Webster says dystopia is "an imagined place or state in which everything is unpleasant or bad, typically a totalitarian or environmentally degraded one."

So by that definition we can't be in a dystopia because the bad places, states, march towards totalitarianism and environmental degradation are real. So there's your chipper Wednesday thought!

[Rachel]

I’m not reading this but I have been feeling for a time that my country (USA) and probably the world are all marching towards dystopia

I actually could muster a strong argument for a corporate dystopia right now I think

[Jamesboggie]

I struggled to pin down McHugh's view on the Sinocentric world as well. She seems to emphasize elements that Americans would find dystopian, but the story does not drive that home. I do not want to spoil anything, but I felt the portrayal became more nuanced over the course of the book.

[Cheryl]

Yeah, Allison, I'm not buying that. It's a boring answer. (M-W's fault, not yours!)

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Cheryl wrote: "Yeah, Allison, I'm not buying that. It's a boring answer. (M-W's fault, not yours!)"

Haha yeah, I agree. I find it wryly humorous though.

[Anthony]

Just finished the first chapter and I’m really drawn in by the complicated interpersonal dynamics. I identify very strongly with Zhang’s desire to be polite that often winds up doing more harm than good. I think McHugh is doing a fantastic job dramatizing the behavior of someone who’s not always behaving consciously or in his best interests.

It’s also always fascinating to see how a writer 25 years ago extrapolated our geopolitical situation.

Really glad this got picked by our group.

[Gabi]

Anthony wrote: "Just finished the first chapter and I’m really drawn in by the complicated interpersonal dynamics. I identify very strongly with Zhang’s desire to be polite that often winds up doing more harm than..."

Agreed! Zhang's characterisation is delightfully realistic. This is what got me hooked from the beginning in.

[Jemppu]

Anthony wrote: "...I think McHugh is doing a fantastic job dramatizing the behavior of someone who’s not always behaving consciously or in his best interests. ..."

Well, now you've gotten me curious, as there's a character out there who's gotten a lot of grief for exactly this, and I'd love to find out how Zhang compares.

[Mareike]

Anthony wrote: "Just finished the first chapter and I’m really drawn in by the complicated interpersonal dynamics. I identify very strongly with Zhang’s desire to be polite that often winds up doing more harm than..."

The characters in this novel are so well done. They all felt so fully realized.

And I loved the worldbuilding and what she's done in terms of geopolitics. The balance between exploring the characters and giving us a well developed vision of a future with different political power dynamics is excellent.

[Oleksandr]

Anthony wrote: "It’s also always fascinating to see how a writer 25 years ago extrapolated our geopolitical situation."

I highly doubt that it was author's goal: not only it hasn't followed actual developments in PRC and the USA in the first decade after but even the actual world changes which were during the publication period (view spoiler)[the book was published in 1992 i.e. written in 1991, and it has the USSR, which in reality fell in December 1991. As for China, it de-criminalized homosexuality in 1997, just a few years after the publication (hide spoiler)]

[Anthony]

I finished the chapter called “Baffin Island” and I was very moved. I find McHugh’s writing to be very humane and compassionate and I’m very much appreciating that. I’m also grateful to read something in which the interior lives of the characters feel very honest and complex in how they’re portrayed.

[Mareike]

Anthony wrote: "I finished the chapter called “Baffin Island” and I was very moved. I find McHugh’s writing to be very humane and compassionate and I’m very much appreciating that. I’m also grateful to read someth..."

That chapter was so good!! I enjoyed the book before I got to that, but Baffin Island took it to the next level.

[Jamesboggie]

Anthony wrote: "...I’m also grateful to read something in which the interior lives of the characters feel very honest and complex in how they’re portrayed."

Thank you for this comment. I was trying to put my finger on this. The way she captured their minds stands out from the other books I have read lately.