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Footnotes 2017-2018
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Musing on a Monday: Reading the Extras
I used to have a method of choosing a book by reading the cover blurbs and first paragraph. After choosing a few I didn't care for, I have cast aside that method which I had used for years.I scour Goodreads, Amazon and Kirkus reviews for books that seem appealing to me. I have certain types of books which are really attract me and I try to stick to those.
That being said there are certain types which I just don't like so much anymore and I do try to avoid them, although I am sucked in now and again.
For instance, I have not read Gone Girl, because I just don't find the evil conniving woman story attractive and it seems to have developed into quite a genre. Perhaps I am prejudging it and I have really missed something.
I've changed over the years. I use to always read the blurb on the back and then I got a handful of authors that I fell in love with, and I would only read books by them... Michael Connelly, Jefferson Bass, Virginia Lanier, Kathy Reichs, Jeffery Deaver, Tami Hoag and Iris Johansen... pretty much all mystery writers. I picked up a Nora Roberts one day that my grandma had read when I was a poor college student and became hooked to her... For years, I would only read those authors and they were prolific enough that I was fine. Then I lost my dad to Alzheimer's and I stopped reading for a few years.
I started back a just over a year ago and I realized how sheltered I was by only reading those authors. I've enjoyed challenging my self with different challenges that I've found via a couple of these groups. I've found that I enjoy walking into a book knowing absolutely nothing about it. I try really hard not to read too deep into any reviews other than whether someone would recommend it or not. I've found that if I knew more about it that I would start judging or develop a perception before I even read it. I decided I wanted to be more open minding going into books. I've thoroughly enjoyed going into books blind and I've found genres and authors that I now love that I never would have tried before.
Honestly, I haven't read chapter headings since I was a child, at least not on the first read through and I usually only read the table of contents if the book is a collection of stories, or a nonfiction work. My eyes automatically slide past chapter headings at this point and I don't even notice. Mainly because of the issue you mentioned - I got tired of books giving away too much about the chapter sucking all excitement and surprise out of my reading experience. Occasionally I will go back and scan the table of contents after, but I often forget to do so. Granted, there have been some times where the chapter headings were important without spoiling the book and might have added to my enjoyment as I read, but this case is so rare, that I have yet to change my views on the matter. If the book is worth rereading twice, I'll read the headings on the second go.However, in defense of myself and your friend,I will point out that part of the reason I'm okay with this, is that contrary to popular belief, those chapter titles are NOT always there by the author's design.
I used to read a lot of author interviews and there seemed to be a period of time where these spoiler-chapter titles were in vogue with the publishers and basically forced upon the author. Of course, this isn't always the case, but I read some variation of that complaint often enough, that I started to disregard them guilt-free.
I always read the forward and the afterward, (or at least scan it, if it seems irrelevant) but I don't read the forward until I've finished the story. Same reason - too many spoilers, as you've already pointed out.
Discussion questions or reviews for the other books I completely ignore in 99% of cases. I was the kid that always had something to say in literature class and had teachers praise my essays, but would struggle to keep me within a reasonable page count. I kid you not, I actually had to be disciplined for refusing to double space my essays and using a slightly smaller font size to try and disguise my rebellion So the discussion questions always seem very obvious to me and often very basic, very boring.
As far as the cover blurbs or summaries, I'm pretty inconsistent with whether or not I read them. Sometimes I choose books based on the cover. Sometimes I just pick up books based on author, without any prior knowledge of that particular one. Often, I already have already read a bit about it, but I don't have anything against reading the blurb and I generally will if I haven't heard of the book. Sometimes I will stop part of the way through, if it seems clear it's heading into spoiler territory.
Theresa wrote: "Granted, in classics quite often the forward should be an afterward because it is written by some scholar or expert on the book who completely dissects it for you and thus ruins your experience -,..."This, I hate! I finally started skipping it and reading it afterward.
I don't read the tables of contents, so luckily, it is not a spoiler for me. I do often skim through the footnotes at the end (this is a fairly recent "thing" for me to do, though... probably in the last 5 years or so).
I do usually read blurbs on the back of the book or on the dust jacket. It's often how I'll decide if I want to even read the book at all or not. However, I usually read them, then add them to the tbr, then it could be years before I actually get to the book, so I often don't even remember by the time I get to reading the book! Sometimes I will reread the blurb, but usually not. I do read reading guides, discussion questions, etc. at the end of the book.
LibraryCin wrote: "I do usually read blurbs on the back of the book or on the dust jacket. It's often how I'll decide if I want to even read the book at all or not. However, I usually read them, then add them to the ..."Oh absolutely! There is certainly less to fear from reading a blurb when you already know you're likely to forget it by the time you get around to the book.
Might I ask what you like about the reading guides and discussion questions?
I do tend to skim the description on the cover - how else do you choose what you might be in the mood for out of the thousands of interesting looking books in the store? 😁 (Oh that’s right, you choose things on the TBR... Yep... ) And I am a total sucker for a good cover. But I can’t remember the last time I read a table of contents in any detail. Probably just as well. It would be massively frustrating to have it give the game away. I almost never read discussion questions because I like to let the book sit in my head for a while and not start dissecting it. I’ve got good about reading authors’ notes though because they can contain some gems
I tend to dive right in with as little information as possible. I rarely read forewords before I read the book, and usually forget to go back to them. I never read the table of contents. I can’t remember what book it was that I read that had a MAJOR spoiler on the back cover. I go with recommendations from you guys, Goodreads synopses, prize nominees, newspaper reviews etc.
Booknblues wrote: "I used to have a method of choosing a book by reading the cover blurbs and first paragraph. After choosing a few I didn't care for, I have cast aside that method which I had used for years.
I scou..."
You haven't missed anything with Gone Girl - I absolutely HATED that book and imo it's worse than Robinson Crusoe - which sent me to sleep twice!!
I scou..."
You haven't missed anything with Gone Girl - I absolutely HATED that book and imo it's worse than Robinson Crusoe - which sent me to sleep twice!!
I usually read the blurbs on the back cover, and I skim the inside description on the jacket. If it is a history book I will read the forward, or if it is a Fantasy series I read the forward as some of my favorite fantasy writers do a re-cap of the last book to help you refresh your memory. I never read the table of contents, but always read the author's notes afterward, like Kate have found some interesting tid-bits in them.When choosing a book, well this year a lot of them came from all you! With Fantasy, if I open the book and see a map, there's a good chance I will pick it up-I am a firm believer that when entering fantasy land a good map can make the experience so much better.
Theresa wrote: "I decided to start up occasional conversations on book/reading related topics that I often muse about. Anyone can join in or start one up in the future. I can't promise how regularly I'll post one,..."Thanks for starting this up Theresa-I was really missing the Sunday Conversations with Jason!
I skip forwards, especially for classics or reprints of books, ever since I read one and it gave away the whole plot of the book. I hate that forward writers seem to assume people have already read the book or know the plot of the book. I like reading author interviews at the end of books but I skip discussion questions. I due tend to read chapter headings if they are given but so far at least haven't had a book spoiled because of them.
I don’t mind the chapter headings, but I haven’t seen too many spoilers in them. I take blurbs on the books from other authors with a grain of salt, because I doubt they’ve read the book. There’s no way Stephen King has read all the books he’s blurbed on. He’d never have time to write his own bricks! I do look at the description of the book, and open it somewhere in the middle to see if I like the writing style. Recommendations come from pretty much everywhere, but I’ll often look at how those with similar tastes to mine liked it, and at the star ratings on GR, LT or Amazon.
And after being burned from introductions far too many times, I skip them. I may go back and read them after, depending on my enjoyment of the book, availability of other reading material (re: if there’s no cereal box nearby), and who wrote the intro. The after material is the same- book discussions are useful if I need to think harder about the book.
Joanne wrote: "When choosing a book, well this year a lot of them came from all you! With Fantasy, if I open the book and see a map, there's a good chance I will pick it up-I am a firm believer that when entering fantasy land a good map can make the experience so much better...."I love books with maps! I'm not much of a fantasy reader, but maps show up in many other genres, and it always thrills me when I see a map at that beginning. Family trees and summary lists of characters are a plus as well, especially when written with a touch of humor. Those of course show up more on series.
If the book is the next in a series, I usually just plunge in with only a cursory look at any additional materials prefacing the beginning of the narration.
Tracy wrote: "There’s no way Stephen King has read all the books he’s blurbed on. He’d never have time to write his own bricks! ."Actually, I believe he does. The man always but always has a book in his hand, reading. His whole family are very heavy readers.
Hard to believe I know, but he's an even more prolific reader as he is a writer.
I have to say, and I’ve said it before. But many of our reviews tell the entire story far more than the book jacket or blurb. I often skim or skip reviews that tell the plot. I’m not interested in hearing in advance what is about to develop in my plot. I want to know extremely little. But a good blurb will draw me in. A bad one will have me easily turn away. But that’s just me. Readers should enjoy their experiences in full, I think.
Amy wrote: "I have to say, and I’ve said it before. But many of our reviews tell the entire story far more than the book jacket or blurb. I often skim or skip reviews that tell the plot. I’m not interested in ..."I know what you mean, Amy! I sometimes start my reviews with a very short paragraph to give people a vague idea of the plot, but I do try to keep my reviews as vague as possible and comment more on certain qualities in general terms, rather than reveal anything specific. I do hope you'll feel free to call me out if I ever post a review that reveals too much, because that drives me crazy!
I'll admit though, if I'm reading a particularly terrible book, I do kind of throw that out the window, just for the humor you can find in the horrorshow.
Amy wrote: "I have to say, and I’ve said it before. But many of our reviews tell the entire story far more than the book jacket or blurb. I often skim or skip reviews that tell the plot. I’m not interested in ..."I agree, I do try to be vague in my reviews as well, or at least only tell the beginning or what you can get from the first couple of pages. or I'll use the spoilers tag to hide it.
If a review looks long for a book that I haven't read but am interested in, I'll check out the rating and not read the review.
I actually don't read many reader reviews of books until after I have read them - in part because of potential spoilers! I do read 'professional' reviews - in Book Pages, newspapers, Kirkus Reviews - as I have rarely encountered any serious spoilers from them. But far too many of the readers reviews either give away way too much without spoiler tags, or simply seem to delight in tearing the book to shreds just for the sake of being clever. The exception is reviews within groups like this -- where there seems to be a level of integrity in protecting the reading experience for others. I too try to give my opinion without revealing too much, and if I'm concerned that something might be a spoiler, I put it in spoiler tags. It's certainly easy enough to do. And I'm always careful to clarify up front when I don't like a book because it's just too much of a genre that I really don't like. What I dislike about certain genre like Horror or Sci Fi are exactly what lovers of those genres want.
Interesting question. Regarding blurbs and forwards, I think it may depend upon the book. I usually like to read forwards by academic experts if I'm reading a classic, although I recall a few times that a spoiler may have 'spoiled' my reading experience. With well known classics it's hard to pick them up without already knowing the ending from movies or other sources so it doesn't really matter. I like to know the historical context of classic book before I read it. I always read the extras at the end of a good book to prolong the experience if it was really good. But then I'm also a 'geek' about rereading my favorites. I used to choose books by reading book cover blurbs. These days I read online samples and depend on reviews and ratings from the readers I know well, mostly from PBT and some others from old shelfari groups.
I try to avoid spoilers when I write reviews or hide them if it's unavoidable. I don't think it's necessarily a spoiler to say that a book ends tragically or that it has a happy ending. How these things occur is the really important part. I try to write about how a book makes me feel and whether the author has accomplished what she set out to do. I write reviews primarily for my own satisfaction, so my document file is often more detailed than what I post on GR.
Add me to the group that loves books with maps!! If there is a map- I will analyze it.Generally speaking though- I do not normally read the extras. I don't read the table of contents, and I don't normally pay attention to chapter titles unless they're time frames, dates, crucial to the story (In the Woods and many other thrillers that flip flop perspectives/time frames), or stand out to be interesting/amusing. I'm perfectly fine with chapters being titled 1, 2, 3. I do enjoy books with fun footnotes (Everything, Everything and Crazy Rich Asians come to mind).
With classics-I avoid the "forewards" like the plague. Way too many chances of having something spoiled, or even hinting at themes that you don't find out till later.
I'm more more opt to read reviews nowadays or the goodreads blurb rather than a book jacket or cover blurbs.
I always have the best of intentions to read the foreword or intro, but I usually quit pretty quickly in. I think this is because it is written to be very complimentary and it's too much. I am reading the book, I don't need a long-winded congratulatory introduction about how genius the book is and blah blah blah... this may not always be the case, but I find it to be often.I don't recall reading the table of contents for Gone Girl and I loved that book. Very suspenseful and I didn't see the twists coming, so perhaps I skipped the table of contents? I think I usually do because I don't care about it unless it is non-fiction, short stories or reference and can be non-linear. The guts of the book are what is important. The ToC in my opinion isn't offering anything of value, for me.
If I already know about the book's plot I never read the jacket and if I do I skim the first paragraph and then usually feel it is treading into spoiler territory.
I used to give a synopsis of plot in my reviews then I read a long string on a Goodreads thread about how people who do that should be killed and now I NEVER do 😲😨 Seriously, these people were REALLY mad about reviewers giving a synopsis of the plot
I do like as in Circe and Court related historical fiction, where there are family trees and descriptions of all the people. Someone I ran into at Starbucks today when I was finishing my book, told me that she needed to get another copy of my brilliant friend, so she could Xerox the part with all of the characters. She was having trouble keeping them straight for the HBO production. I do find those extras helpful.
Well ... I write my reviews for myself ... so I can remember the book and my reactions to it. So I always include a brief synopsis. Older reviews probably have more plot summary than more recent reviews. Except for PBT, I usually post only a few-sentence synopsis of my reviews, with a link for anyone who wants to read the full review.I rely mostly on my indie bookseller, the Indie Next monthly newsletter, and recommendations from friends I trust (incl those here on PBT). I don't read the jacket blurb, the table of contents or any other material until AFTER I've read the full book.
And if there's a map or diagram ... I definitely refer to it frequently!
Meli wrote: " used to give a synopsis of plot in my reviews then I read a long string on a Goodreads thread about how people who do that should be killed and now I NEVER do 😲😨 Seriously, these people were REALLY mad about reviewers giving a synopsis of the plot "Eek! I do this in my reviews! But it's more like a 3-sentence summary to remind myself when I come back and read my reviews and can't remember.
Do people hate it because they give an entire summary and spoil the book? Or is there some other reason?
LiteraryMania wrote: "Might I ask what you like about the reading guides and discussion questions?..."Now, that's a good question! I don't even know how to answer that. To be honest, I don't usually stop and think about how I would answer them, even, though I suppose occasionally I do, but not often.
Charlotte wrote: "I agree, I do try to be vague in my reviews as well, or at least only tell the beginning or what you can get from the first couple of pages. or I'll use the spoilers tag to hide it. ..."Me, too. I like to give a bit of a summary for people who are coming to my review out of context (that is, they aren't already on the book page; if they are on the book page, I would assume they have some kind of idea what the book is about). But because I post my reviews in so many places, people are often looking at it out of context.
I know for me, it doesn't matter what someone thought of the book if the description of the book doesn't sound interesting to me, and if the description doesn't sound interesting, I'm not interested in the rest of the review (unless I'm on the book page and already have an idea what the book is about).
I also do use the spoiler tag if something is likely to be considered a spoiler... or even maybe a spoiler. I will often use spoiler tags for a previous book in the series if there is something I'm giving away from an earlier book, even!
Friends, I certainly don’t mind a bit of context. Certainly that’s with the blurbs in the back and on the side do as well. I think I was just commenting on the tendency to have the entire plot unfold in the review particularly the first third to half of the book. Please, three sentences isn’t going to bother anybody. A brief synopsis can be really helpful. Just try not to give everything away that isn’t already given away on the side of the book.
I agree that context helps for reviews here- most times when we read reviews on PBT no one looks at the book page unless they're interested based off of the review. I will say honestly, the reviews that bother me the most are the ones that have 25 gifs, or images interspersed throughout the text. STOP TRYING SO HARD! I just care about the review, lol.
Joi wrote: "I agree that context helps for reviews here- most times when we read reviews on PBT no one looks at the book page unless they're interested based off of the review. I will say honestly, the revie..."
I agree Joi- Gifs drives me nuts when I am trying to read a review
Hahaha! I hear you about the gifs! They can be clever and entertaining. But they turn a review into a product - I tend to think they say rather more about the reviewer (and seem aimed at getting social media followers) rather than just sharing ideas about the book. Absolutely nothing wrong with that and kudos to people who want to do it - just not what I’m personally interested in reading reviews for.
Joi wrote: "the reviews that bother me the most are the ones that have 25 gifs, or images interspersed throughout the text. ..."YES!
LibraryCin wrote: "Joi wrote: "the reviews that bother me the most are the ones that have 25 gifs, or images interspersed throughout the text. ..."YES!"
I really hate those!
Theresa wrote: "LibraryCin wrote: "Joi wrote: "the reviews that bother me the most are the ones that have 25 gifs, or images interspersed throughout the text. ..."YES!"
I really hate those!"
Me too!
Regarding the extras, I read the blurbs as I actually like to set the expectations right for the book I’m going to read. I once watched a film I wrongly thought to be a comedy and was really annoyed about not getting the humor at all, only to finally realize this was not supposed to be funny. Completely spoiled the film for me. I use the TOC if it helps in keeping oriented in the book, like if there are POV changes evident in the headings. Or if I’m kind of bored by a section to see how long this is going to drag on.... There are some books where the chapter headings include a sinopsis of the chapter - I ignore those.
Introductions I try out. If they are not too long. If they add in setting the scene, giving background information, fine. But if they discuss the book in any way, I skip. I’ll read any epilogue, author’s note etc to make sure I don’t miss anything relevant to the book itself. Afterwords clearly added at a later date I treat as optional.
I always read footnotes, unless they are just indications of source material. Some authors use them as a structural device (think: Infinite Jest), others give fascinating historical background information. You never know...
As to reviews, I try to write reviews I would like to read: a very few sentences to remind me in my own words what the books is about. Avoid anything that describes the plot. Definitely avoid anything that comes as a surprise or is pivotal to the story. If I want to know more, gooreads has the blurb.Then a couple of paragraphs about why I rated the book as I did, things that stood out - e.g. intimate portrayal of relationships or vivid sense of place or humor that did not work for me. In short things that might help others decide if they would want to give it a try or skip it despite my rating, as their preferences differ from mine.
I skip any review that starts with a summary of the book (unless I’ve already read the book and am curious about a person’s differing view). The probability of spoilers is just too big.
When I’m undecided about a book, I browse reviews at both ends of the rating scale to figure out what has people disagree about the book and hopefully help me figure out at what end of the scale I’m likely to end.
Joi wrote: "Do people hate it because they give an entire summary and spoil the book? Or is there some other reason?"If I remember correctly, a majority of the reasons were "if we are reading your review, we already know what the book is about!"
In my case, that is true because I don't read reviews until I finish a book as not to be influenced by it, but every once in a while I might check out the low starred reviews.
I think you guys got it right - the reviews should be for us, and to remember what we read which is one of the reasons to be on Goodreads, but after I read that ranting thread I felt very self-conscious about plot summaries.
I do think they are a lot more necessary for PBT because the books are completely out of context, whereas other book reviews outside of PBT are probably found by searching the book purposefully.
Haha, the gifs! OMG, especially annoying when I am trying to sneak a peak at reviews at work. It's obvious it isn't work related.
I do love to express myself with GIFs, though, just not in a book review.
Sushicat wrote: "Regarding the extras, I read the blurbs as I actually like to set the expectations right for the book I’m going to read. I once watched a film I wrongly thought to be a comedy and was really annoye..."There may be nothing worse than being misled or unprepared for a movie - especially given the cost they are (at least here in NYC). Or maybe it's just it can be discomforting. I remember going to see the original Bette Midler movie 'Beaches' in the theaters, weeks after it had initially opened. I'd heard good word of mouth but read no reviews. Plus I adore Bette. However, no one warned me that it was a 5 hanky weeper! And I had no tissues or napkins or anything! I think I had to sacrifice the sleeve on my shirt or something.
Yes, I'm a weeper. Books, movies, commercials, songs, the Irish Waterworks start. It's not pretty.
Footnotes - I found all the footnotes by Kevin Kwan in the Crazy Rich Asian books to be a wonderful and often funny addition to the story. That was an occasion where reading them was easy in ebook -- you just tapped the footnote and it took you to it. I'll never forget reading Schopenhauer in college -- and discovering that a single footnote could go on for pages, and that essentially were where he was expressing his philosophy, not in the main text. It was irritating as can be.
Theresa, I’m a weeper too. Anything can do it. Many true book lovers are.
Amy wrote: "Theresa, I’m a weeper too. Anything can do it. Many true book lovers are."#Weepers! I totally related to Jude Law's character in Love Actually when he confesses to Cameron Diaz' character over lunch that he's a weeper.
Sign me up in the "weeper" club-doesn't take much😊
For some reason, when I am really hungover I am more emotional and those Subaru commercials get me every time! Emotional movies and shows, for sure, not so much books though... very rarely will a book get me. I am reading The Coldest Winter Ever and last night that made me start to feel a tearing up and I was quite caught off guard.
Meli wrote: "For some reason, when I am really hungover I am more emotional and those Subaru commercials get me every time! Emotional movies and shows, for sure, not so much books though... very rarely will a b..."I seem to hit the weeper parts of books when I'm out in public - on the subway, on the bus, while eating a burger in a diner after a late meeting... Seriously, my timing on it SUCKS!
Theresa wrote: "Meli wrote: "For some reason, when I am really hungover I am more emotional and those Subaru commercials get me every time! Emotional movies and shows, for sure, not so much books though... very ra..."I don't think I would be able to cry in public... my tear ducts become immediately blocked.
I also cry easily, and have also done so on public transit! At least, with a book in your hand, hopefully people will figure out why you are crying! The worst is when it's an audio book, and people have no idea!
ETA: And I bawl when I watch "Beaches". Never saw it in the theatre, though. Funny, I was thinking about it just the other day - that I'd like to watch it again.
LibraryCin wrote: "ETA: And I bawl when I watch "Beaches". Never saw it in the theatre, though. Funny, I was thinking about it just the other day - that I'd like to watch it again. .."I sob through that movie every time I see it! Sometimes it is almost cathartic, LOL. I always make sure I have a pretty full tissue box handy!
There are 2 books that I found not only had me outright sobbing for long stretches, but were almost too painful to read: The Prince of Tides - those last 100 pages or so...made more painful by the incredible beauty of the writing.
The Nightingale - I had to put this one aside for a couple of weeks about 2/3rds through it because it was so heartbreaking.
I’m in the weeper club too. Love Actually, when she realises the gift isn’t for her. It makes me teary just thinking about it!
Play Book Tag
Books mentioned in this topic
A Lesson Before Dying (other topics)The Nightingale (other topics)
The Prince of Tides (other topics)
The Coldest Winter Ever (other topics)
Crazy Rich Asians (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Michael Connelly (other topics)Jefferson Bass (other topics)
Virginia Lanier (other topics)
Kathy Reichs (other topics)
Jeffery Deaver (other topics)
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Something I've been musing about recently is the impact that reading cover blurbs, tables of content, dedications, epigraphs, forwards, end notes, footnotes, you name it have on my reading experience of a book. It gelled for me when I was talking about how underwhelming I found Gone Girl because there was zero surprise or suspense for me in it as I knew from reading the table of contents after the jacket description exactly how it was all going to turn out. Without that element of suspense, it was a very flat read about 2 very unpleasant people who deserved each other IMHO. My friend commented that she did find it suspenseful, but of course she did not read the table of contents or jacket blurb, and in fact never reads the table of contents.
Really? I mean it's all there, written by the author, for a reason. Granted, in classics quite often the forward should be an afterward because it is written by some scholar or expert on the book who completely dissects it for you and thus ruins your experience - Villette was one of those, plus my copy failed to indicate in the table of contents that there was a glossary of French translations of the foreign phrases peppering the text (fortunately, I can read French). Because in some cases it actually adds to the reading experience (as with the forward by Patrick Dennis' grandson to Auntie Mame: An Irreverent Escapade, or the one in The Phantom Tollbooth, I glance at the first page and length, then decide whether to skip it until after I read the book.
The Diver's Clothes Lie Empty has an epigraph - a quote from Clarice LIspector, 'The Passion According to G.H.' that absolutely prepared you for what you were about to encounter. Was even critical to it. I actually went back and re-read it a couple of times as I made my way through. I ended up not really liking the book, but that did not diminish the impact of the epigraph on my reading.
Of course, we've all seen cover design and jacket blurbs that give away too much -- like movie trailers that show you the whole movie. In my experience, those are rare.
Reading a book - whether print or digital - involves the entire thing from cover to cover. Well, I do usually skip the excerpts from reviews, the next in series, and suggested discussion points for book clubs, but those are not included because the author wrote them to be included; they are merely publisher add-ons and thus unimportant.
Anyone have any musings on this?