"Ka: Dar Oakley in the Ruin of Ymr" by John Crowley (BR)

[Silvana]

The story seems like nothing I have ever read. A sample review about the book (kind of spoilery):
https://locusmag.com/2017/12/gary-k-w...

Let the roll call begins. Who's in?

[Gabi]

I was thinking about it, If I get my current BRs and The Fall of Hyperion done in time.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

I've already ordered it at the library!

[Silvana]

Allison wrote: "I've already ordered it at the library!"

Yay! Is this going to be our first BR? hmmm

Gabi wrote: "I was thinking about it, If I get my current BRs and The Fall of Hyperion done in time."

you can do it!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

OMG! Is it?? I'll try to be on time, then!

[Soo]

I bought the book. I may get the audio. I'll probably start around the 20th.

[Ariana]

I was planning on it, but I am predictably very behind. So we will see if I can get to it in a timely manner.

[Rachel]

I’ve got a hold coming to the library soon!!

[Oleksandr]

Silvana wrote: "Let the roll call begins. Who's in? "

I'm in, planned to start about Nov 20th

[Dawn F]

This sounds really special, I’m definitely curious, but doubt I can start on time.

[Silvana]

Happy to see many interests here.

This is silly but for some reason I always misspelt Ymr into Myr (one of those Free Cities in ASOIAF's Essos). How do you pronounce Ymr? Yimer? Imer? 😆

[Soo]

I'm thinking Ymr as "e-mer".

[Beth]

I'm in! placed a hold on this at the library.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Soo wrote: "I'm thinking Ymr as "e-mer"."

That's how I've been saying it, too :)

[Rachel]

or E-mir

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Rachel wrote: "or E-mir"

And this is what I want it to be lol

[Ariana]

Rachel wrote: "or E-mir"

Yeah, this is what's been happening in my head, but probably because it looks so much like Ymir. But there's really only the one vowel...

[Soo]

Yah, "E-mir" only works for me when I go into broken English mode.

PS - Broken English mode is a real thing that happens with me occasionally. hehe

[Silvana]

Rachel wrote: "or E-mir"

Emir like in 'emirate'?

if only there's someone with an audio version *wink wink

[Dawn F]

Since it’s an old Norse name of the cow that birthed all the Jotuns or giants, spelling and pronounciation has changed, but I think Ymir is the most common English spelling and it’s pronounced “EE-mir”, stressing the first syllable. “mir” as in how they say Mjolnir in the Thor movies.

In Danish we say Ymer and it’s somewhat pronounced Y-muh, the last syllable being unstressed.

[Anna]

Dawn, with the Y pronounced like E in 'eww' ? That's how I think of it, Eww-m(e)rr, with the eww part cut very short.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Y is ew in Finnish?

[Anna]

Yup.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Interesting. We say the cow's name EE-meer. English sort of defaults to the soft e sound if there's no vowel between two pronounced consonants. So Ymr resembles but does not sound like Ymir if I were to read it according to our strongly suggested guidelines. (I can't call them rules, have you seen English?)

[Rachel]

Dawn - yes that’s how I heard it in my head although I’d forgotten the reason why.

[Soo]

This all just makes me want the audio. I think the author narrated it.

[Anna]

I listened to the sample, he says it a little ways into the sample, it sounds like the German word 'immer' but with a shorter 'm' sound and the 'e' swallowed a little bit.

[Dawn F]

I can’t write how we say Y in Scandinavia, because you don’t have an equivalent y-sound in English. It’s pronounced like the german ü if that makes sense XD

It’s one reason I’ve translated my Danish name to Dawn as no one can say my Danish name Gry and I don’t want it garbled haha.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Like German ü? This is good to know! I don't know anything about this story (I read the blurb after someone said it was related to something I knew I liked but such is the blessing of a bad memory that it takes a lot of work to spoil things for myself permanently) but do we think Ymr is meant to be something Scandinavian/Norse? Or is it more likely it's that trend where people add Z, X, Q and Y to things to make it sound less Earthican?

ETA Dawn, I often introduce myself as Allie/y in languages other than English. For whatever reason, the nasal sound followed by two swallowed syllables seems to be difficult. But ally seems to be fairly consistent :)

[Dawn F]

Hah, my brain works the same way, I can never remember why or where I heard of something I’ve clearly noted down I’d like to read.

I don’t know the story either but since it’s covering thousands of years of history and is told by a crow with a name, a mythological creature/idea even there, I’m assuming it’s the Ymer from Norse mythology that’s referenced. The spelling is just different. Ymr is likely how it would be spelled with runes. The e between m and r would be considered redundant because the e sound is naturally there when you try to say “mr”. Just like they wouldn’t write double consonants with runes. Allison would just be “alison” :)

Btw Allison is so easy to say, hard to imagine that causing you trouble!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Told by a crow, you say....iiinteresting. XD

[Rachel]

Yes that’s what I know : Ka is our crow narrator. I like non human narrators. 😁

[Margaret]

Actually, "Dar Oakley" is our crow protagonist. "Ka" is (IIRC--it's been a while since I read the book) more or less "crowdom."

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

So it's Crowtown: Dar Oakley in the Ruin of a Giant Cow?

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

I think I've just gotten further from knowing what this book is about! Can't wait to start it. :D

[Dawn F]

Lol I think we’ve successfully deconstructed the title!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Dawn wrote: "Lol I think we’ve successfully deconstructed the title!"

Onto page one.

;-)

[Anna]

Actually Ymr is what the crow calls the human world, as it calls the crow world Ka.

No, I'm not planning on reading it :D

[Rachel]

You’re right it’s been too long since I read the blurb and added it 😆
Guess I’m like you Allison

[Dawn F]

Anna wrote: "Actually Ymr is what the crow calls the human world, as it calls the crow world Ka.

No, I'm not planning on reading it :D"

Yes, accord to the Edda poems the world was created from Ymr’s body so that makes sense XD

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Haha! Well, now that we've got that all straightened out...

[Silvana]

I am starting today since tomorrow I'll start a work trip which might take some of my reading time until next week. Also, just based on the first few pages, it reads like a novel that needs to be savored ;)

[Oleksandr]

I'm in the middle of it and I like it. I don't know a lot of the crow role in different mythos and this book it seems heavily borrows from those

[Silvana]

Cool. I have not gotten to those parts but 3% in I learned some stuff about crows biology and social behavior.

[Silvana]

12%
(view spoiler)[nothing much happened but I thoroughly enjoyed the tale of Dar Oakley and his first meeting with men. I wonder what age it was. Maybe after human stop being nomadic hunter/gatherer? (hide spoiler)]

[Rachel]

Got the prologue read! Hopefully thanksgiving weekend here will provide reading opportunities

[Silvana]

17%
I love this quote
(view spoiler)[A realm is where you are when you are what you are. (hide spoiler)]
Although the discussion that follows is quite a mental gymnastic.

Wonder if the audio is great. The author narrates.

[Silvana]

I am definitely very slow in reading this novel, not deliberately because the pacing is also slow. Where are you now, Rachel?

I am at 21% and some things intrigued me:
(view spoiler)[Fox Cap's gender and the two realms including where she was taken/kidnapped. (hide spoiler)]

And yes, because this novel I googled the difference between crows and ravens.

[Oleksandr]

I finished it a few days ago. I liked the style and descriptions, both about biology/psychology of crows and their role in human mythos. I won't debate the details while others haven't finished it, but I'd say that if you want to know more about birds, including crows and ravens I advise The Genius of Birds

[Silvana]

34%, end of Part 1

On the timeline
(view spoiler)[so the mention of the red cloak and Legion has got to be the Romans, right?

Which means probably Fox Cap and her people are early Europeans. (hide spoiler)]

I can't wait for the next chapter to see who (view spoiler)[his human companion would be. (hide spoiler)]

Oleksandr wrote: "I finished it a few days ago. I liked the style and descriptions, both about biology/psychology of crows and their role in human mythos. I won't debate the details while others haven't finished it,..."

I am curious about myths. Would love if you could share those later.