The Evolution of Science Fiction discussion
Group Reads 2018
>
November 2018 Group Read "The Lost Horizon"
I read this a couple of months ago and will be interested in reading other members' comments on the book. I enjoyed most of it, except for one of the plot lines that I found annoying.
I read it in high school decades ago and look forward to the reread because I remember liking it then, when I was naive and idealistic....
All my life I have conflated Lost Horizon by Hilton and Paradise Lost by Milton. My library doesn't have a copy. I bought a used hard cover edition and was disappointed to see how tiny the print is. I expect to start it in a few days. It's next on my list.
I finished it just last week. An interesting book with a surprising end
Leo wrote: "You can also find it at http://gutenberg.net.au/"Thanks! Here is the link to reading it online:
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks05/0500...
If you want an epub or mobi (Kindle) file, go to this page:
http://gutenberg.net.au/epub-ebooks.html
& search down a little more than halfway for James Hilton's name. You'll see several of his books including "Lost Horizon".
I reread Lost Horizon two years ago. I was wondering if I’d enjoy it as much as an adult as I did when I was a teenager. Well, I think I enjoyed it even more the second time. Maybe if I have the time this month, I’ll revisit Shangri-La a third time.
From the Wikipedia article on Lost Horizon:Cultural significance[edit]
The book, published in 1933, caught the notice of the public only after Hilton's Goodbye, Mr. Chips was published in 1934. Lost Horizon became a huge popular success and in 1939 was published in paperback form, as Pocket Book #1. Because of its number-one position in what became a very long list of pocket editions, Lost Horizon is often mistakenly called the first American paperback book, when in fact paperbacks had been around since the mid-1800s. What made Pocket Book #1 of revolutionary importance was that it was the first "mass-market" paperback; mass market paperbacks allowed people of modest means not only to own books they otherwise could not afford but also to slip the paperback into their pocket for casual reading on the go, hence the name "Pocket Book".
By the 1960s, Pocket Books alone, over the course of more than 40 printings, had sold several million copies of Lost Horizon, helping to make it one of the most popular novels of the 20th Century.[1] US President Franklin D. Roosevelt named the Presidential hideaway in Maryland after Shangri-La. (It has since been renamed Camp David.) Likewise Roosevelt initially claimed the Doolittle Raid came from Shangri-La; this inspired the name of the aircraft carrier USS Shangri-La.
I just found out that the author is the same man who wrote Good-Bye, Mr. Chips, a book that I've had in the back of my mind as 'should read some day' and so, since it was on the shelf adjacent, I picked it up.Also this small library that I'm currently dealing with is so strange. Not only are large print and paperbacks segregated out, which I can see kinda makes sense, but so are "classics."
At what point does who decide what goes on the classic shelf? Lost Horizon and GMC are classics. Time and Time Again was on the regular fiction shelf (I haven't decided whether to read that). Agatha Christie is on classics. And the stack of classics is adjacent the DVDs... does that serve as highlight or ghetto? I can seldom find anything on first pass... and I can't reserve online to have staff pull, either. :sigh:
I read "Goodbye, Mr. Chips" in high school, but don't remember much about it. Probably should reread as I think I liked it a lot.I tag some books as classics on my shelves, 184 at present. I consider them influential, must-reads, but couldn't give great reasons for many. They're somewhat akin to favorites (121).
I expressed elsewhere that I'm not a fan of the 'frame' structure of story telling--where a bunch of people are sitting around talking and one of then says something like "Let me tell you something...." and we go into the main story proper. I'm a supporter of literary modernism. But I can see the usefulness of that technique.The prologue of the book gives a hint that its going to be a fantastic tale. One of the characters relates that he saw Conway perform two unpublished pieces by Chopin. The pieces were remarkable and a pianist who was present did think that the music was in Chopin's style. Conway says he learned the pieces from a student of Chopin. But Chopin died in 1849.
The author James Hilton avoided stock characterization of Conway's character. Conway is not a pulp fiction action hero--Seeks adventure! Gets a thrill from danger! Conway is talented, both intellectually and physically, and is unflappable in chaotic situations, but he doesn't make it a point to get into such situations.
Four characters are in a plane. The plane in hijacked. The plane makes a landing somewhere around the Himalayas and the hijacker who was flying the plane dies. An entourage happens to be appear, and leads the four characters to Shangri-La.
The four characters are informed that they might have to stay at the lamasery for two months, for by then others will arrive that will help them leave. Three of the characters from the plane are not too thrilled at the prospect. Conway though has a positive attitude about it. I side with Conway. Hey, its a unique place with good food. I would find it an interesting experience.
One of the reasons I read science fiction is to imagine wondrous things. This is from the book:
Mallinson, who had picked up a book, interrupted: "Here's something for your studious life, Conway. It's a map of the country."
"We have a collection of several hundreds," said Chang. "They are all open to your inspection, but perhaps I can save you trouble in one respect. You will not find Shangri-La marked on any."
"Curious," Conway made comment. "I wonder why?"
"There is a very good reason, but I am afraid that is all I can say."
Um, sorry to be dense, but what about the Chopin reference is 'fantastic' or less than believable?
Cheryl wrote: "Um, sorry to be dense, but what about the Chopin reference is 'fantastic' or less than believable?"Lost Horizon was published in 1933. The story takes place in that time.
Chopin died in 1849.
Conway says he learned the unpublished Chopin pieces from a student of Chopin.
1933-1849=84
Say Chopin's student was 20 years old in 1849. Probably older. But lets go with 20. 84 + 20= 104.
So Conway learned of the unpublished Chopin pieces from someone who was at least 100 years old.
Not impossible in our normal reality, but it gives a hint that people in Shangri-La live hundreds of years beyond the normal lifespan and only very slowly age in appearance.
Ok, ty, I knew I was misunderstanding something.
Leo wrote: "You can also find it at http://gutenberg.net.au/"Thank you, Leo. I gave up trying the read the too-fine print of my hardcover with a magnifier and switched to reading on my PC monitor, which I normally eschew but it is an improvement.
I gave this book 4 stars. One thing I find interesting about the book is that, though first published in the early 1930s, some characters in the book expect a world-wide cataclysm in the near future. Another world war.
Shangri-La will preserve knowledge and culture during the new dark age.
I classify this book as social science fiction. Wikipedia says: "Social science fiction is a subgenre of science fiction, usually (but not necessarily) soft science fiction, concerned less with technology/space opera and more with speculation about society. In other words, it "absorbs and discusses anthropology", and speculates about human behavior and interaction."
Ronald wrote: "One thing I find interesting about the book is that, though first published in the early 1930s, some characters in the book expect a world-wide cataclysm in the near future. Another world war."A valid point, especially bearing in mind that Nazi came to power in 1933 and the book was written earlier. At the same time, we often have a skewed view on our past, because we know what happened and not what was prevented. For example in early 1920s there was a conflict between Britain and France regarding naval programs, which was seen as a possible precursor for the war. In 1927 there was a 'war scare' in the USSR, which expected an invasion via Poland. If we look closer to the region of Tibet, Japan expansion has already started (see Mukden Incident in 1931)
Thank you Oleksandr, I knew none of that history.
I would not have thought to classify this as SF. I liked to read the book, although in fact not much is happening in it. It leaves us with some mysteries and I agree with Ronald that that is one of the main attractactions of it. I did not know that this was kind of a classic to read in school in english-speaking countries. In that way also I'm glad that I read it.
I agree it's not typical science fiction, nor fantasy.I think this is an example of the more inclusive "speculative fiction."
Cheryl wrote: "I agree it's not typical science fiction, nor fantasy."I think it is a borderline case. For me SF should set a question 'what if' and then investigate it. Here we have 'what if in Tibet people can live very long and plan to be the saviours of mankind?' but no definite investigation.
I'm a bit past the halfway mark. I just now came across this passage and it struck me. "Look here, Conway, I'll put it like this. A feller does what he's been doing for years, and what lots of other fellers have been doing, and suddenly the market goes against him. He can't help it, but he braces up and waits for the turn. But somehow the turn don't come as it always used to, and when he's lost ten million dollars or so he reads in some paper that a Swede professor thinks it's the end of the world. Now I ask you, does that sort of thing help markets? Of course, it gives him a bit of a shock, but he still can't help it. And there he is till the cops come—if he waits for 'em. I didn't."
"You claim it was all just a run of bad luck, then?"
"Well, I certainly had a large packet."
"You also had other people's money," put in Mallinson sharply.
"Yeah, I did. And why? Because they all wanted something for nothing and hadn't the brains to get it for themselves."
That last sentence could have come out of the mouth of Francisco d'Anconia, one of the vaunted heroes of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, written some 25 years after Lost Horizon. I know this probably is of no interest to most folks, but it just stopped me in my tracks
Buck wrote: "That last sentence could have come out of the mouth of Francisco d'Anconia, one of the vaunted heroes of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged"I'm yet to read Ayn Rand, for whose work I heard to many both very good and very bad reviews. Re the phrase I think it is the usual description, if everything is good - it's my genius, if bad - it's market :)
Oleksandr wrote: "I'm yet to read Ayn Rand, for whose work I heard to..."She's an interesting read for a number of reasons. She immigrated here from Russia as a teen & has an astonishing vocabulary. I try to have a dictionary handy since she loves to use $5 words when a penny one would do & also uses secondary definitions a lot, yet is extremely clear & fine in her points once translated. It's kind of a game for me.
Like most philosophers, she has some good ideas, but paints herself into a corner of absurdity. (Strict rules & absolute logic do not work well with humans.) Atlas Shrugged was my favorite novel. The Fountainhead was just absurd overall. The Virtue of Selfishness: A New Concept of Egoism is pretty good, but you can get the meat of it in the first 50 pages IIRC & she did a 30 minute talk that's better.
Of more interest to you might be her opinion on the invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
https://archive.org/details/AynRandCo...
There's a lot of her stuff on the Internet Archive (archive.org)
https://archive.org/search.php?query=...
including interviews on TV, radio broadcasts, & such. They used to have her address to West Point, our premier military school for officers. I didn't find it in a quick search, though. I have a copy I can email you, if you're interested.
Jim wrote: "She's an interesting read for a number of reasons. "Thanks for the info. I have her Atlas Shrugged in my TBR, but the very size frightens me
Oleksandr wrote: "Thanks for the info. I have her Atlas Shrugged in my TBR, but the very size frightens me"It's a brick, but a pretty quick read for all that. Her fiction isn't loaded with tough words. You might be better served by going through some her nonfiction stuff & reading a synopsis of the novel. You'll miss the flavor, though. The end is worth all the build up, IMO.
Buck wrote: "I'm a bit past the halfway mark. I just now came across this passage and it struck me.... "Because they all wanted something for nothing and hadn't the brains to get it for themselves."
That last sentence could have come out of the mouth of Francisco d'Anconia..."
Well, couldn't it have come from just about any 'financial advisor' or broker? I'm guessing Hilton was going for the universal there, don't you think?
Cheryl wrote: "Well, couldn't it have come from just about any 'financial advisor' or broker? I'm guessing Hilton was going for the universal there, don't you think"The point that struck me, though, and mind you that I'm still not finished with the book, is that in Lost Horizon this was the rationalization of a fugitive swindler, whereas in Atlas Shrugged it was the noble motivation of the character. Barnard/Bryant didn't intend to hurt people, it just happened when things went out of control. His rationalization ignored the little man who may have been hurt. d'Anconia deliberately tricked the wealthy greedy without a second thought to the plight of the workers he abandoned.
Your point is well taken. They both are of a type, even though Rand venerated her character.
But I think I brought up an aside. It's beside the point of Lost Horizon
Ah. Hmm. I think that is worth thinking about.
I'm sure Hilton had more than one point to make in the book, after all.
Mod
It feels a bit like a film by Pressburger and Powell. Black Narcissus is the obvious reference point, but even if they hadn't made that film there is something about the dialog that makes me think of them.
I finished Lost Horizon last night. I can't believe that I hadn't read this before. Definitely an important book - especially with Shangri-La being such a familiar name in our popular culture.We knew from the prologue that (view spoiler)
Did I miss something in the prologue? How did Conway lose his memory?
Buck wrote: "Did I miss something in the prologue? How did Conway lose his memory? "It was not mentioned specifically - it seems just a trauma after physical and emotional exhaustion of the journey back
The author doesn't give us all the facts as to what happened after they left Shangri La
Took me awhile to get into but then finished readily. Though I did find the ending rather abrupt - it was all world-building & development and then quick climactic event and then epilogue.So, why did he leave with Mallinson? Because he liked the lad? Because he hoped to have a chance to do something for Lo-Tsen? Would you have left?
I would have drugged Mallinson's tea some more to get him used to the idea of staying, I think....
And why did Lo-Tsen leave? Just for a few days of passion? I mean, they wouldn't even be down the hills before she got old, and it's not like she was forbidden to have carnal lovers.
And why was Conway named successor? Sure, he seemed like a good choice, but he hadn't been tested at all and had not been there long enough to feel bonded to Shangri-La... we knew that even before we saw his faith in the old guy's story wavering.
And was the old guy really the original Perrault?
And will Bryant and Brinklow learn to be content in Shangri-La? I like how their specific knowledges will ironically enrich the library's wealth.
I don't like the sexism. Hilton's women are a stereotypical missionary, a stereotypical comfortress, and earthy Tibetans.... I guess that maybe he doesn't know women, and so maybe I should be glad he didn't try to include any real ones only to get them very wrong....
Intriguing story. Definitely the concept of a peaceful, scholarly, simple, long life (with modern plumbing!) appeals. I'm not sure that it's all that well written, though. I mean, never mind the simple characters, the over-abundance of narration, the heaviness & obviousness of the themes... it's just not much of a story, either. Imo.
I did like some lines. They're on the plane with the silent kidnapper and thinking of him as a lunatic. Conway considers "The will of God and the lunacy of man... or... the will of man and the lunacy of God. It must be satisfying to be quite certain which way to look at it."
Thinking about it... his men are pretty stereotypical, too. I mean, there are more of them, but really each is not a person, but a role....
Cheryl wrote: "I don't like the sexism. Hilton's women are a stereotypical missionary, a stereotypical comfortress, and earthy Tibetans.... I guess that maybe he doesn't know women, and so maybe I should be glad he didn't try to include any real ones only to get them very wrong...."I agree about presence of sexism (and a latent racism too) in the book, but this was common for the age. Moreover, the author is quite progressive in that not the woman got hysterics (and its her first flight), but Mallinson. And that later she studies instead of just then expected KKK [Kinder, Küche, Kirche]
Mod
I have a vague memory of maybe reading this before, or at least an excerpt. Either that, or something that was borrowing ideas from this.
My version contains questions for book club discussion at the end. I'm not going to post them all here. But the first question is interesting. Basically, "Why did he use the title 'Lost Horizon'" ?
Thoughts?
Mod
"Another issue was that of casting the part of the High Lama. After a screen test of 56-year-old retired stage actor A.E. Anson, Capra decided that he was just right for the part. He made a call to the actor's home, and the housekeeper who answered the phone was told to relay the message to Anson that the part was his. Not long after, the housekeeper called back telling Capra that when Anson heard the news, he had a heart attack and died. Subsequently, Capra offered the part to 58-year-old Henry B. Walthall. He died before shooting began. Finally, to play it safer age-wise, Capra cast Sam Jaffe who was just 45"
Mod
It was also made into a musical. Twice! Once on stage, and a totally separate version on film. The film is considered "one of The 100 Most Enjoyably Bad Movies Ever Made" and the fights over it led to the break-up of the previously very successful writing team of Burt Bacharach and Hal David.
It is much easier to have a Utopia in a book than on a film set.
The musical version was really really awful, and yet I still remember it.
Good question on the title. I have no idea. It sounds cool is my only guess for one part of the reason... ;)
There was only mountains all around them? So, no horizon.Found this:
"Meaning of the Title
Lost Horizon is a reference to a faraway paradise that can be obtained, but is usually lost by those who need it most. "
Mod
My guess on the title is that he is thinking that pretty soon there will no longer be any unknown places just over the horizon. Modern technology, especially the airplane, was making it harder and harder for lost worlds to stay lost.
Mod
Conway: "You're not interested, then, in the latest developments of the world crisis?"
Chang: "I shall be very deeply interested—in due course."
I feel a lot like Chang. I want to know what's going on, but I prefer to read about stuff later, after we understand it better. There are few new things happening each day that I really need to know about. I can learn better by waiting for a more detailed analysis.
I agree with you... but a daily 10 yrs old is still a daily... I think Hilton maybe didn't write that bit exactly as he intended it to be understood....
The Evolution of Science Fiction
Books mentioned in this topic
Atlas Shrugged (other topics)The Fountainhead (other topics)
The Virtue of Selfishness: A New Concept of Egoism (other topics)
Good-Bye, Mr. Chips (other topics)
Time and Time Again (other topics)
More...
Probably still avl. in print at many libraries, and downloadable directly as a PDF from its Goodreads page.
No librivox edition found.