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What technologies that were once scifi, but are now becoming reality really freak you out?
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Michel wrote: "D.L. wrote: "I agree, Micah. The benefits of human achievements are seldom applied equally. Perhaps things like access to clean water and electricity may be exceptions in most industrialized nation...""The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed." That was William Gibson, and the quote is something I'm reminded of whenever technology, access, and the developing world are brought up.
All true, but equal access to whatever society offers has never held for all its members. Serfs and lords did not share and share alike, and I imagine there were even (unfair) inequalities in the camps of our mammoth-hunting ancestors. Although it does not directly relate to the initial question of this thread (technology), we've made a bit of progress in cultural things like this, too. At least our laws (in Western society) are intended to apply equally to everyone. In practice, some people seem more equal than others, but, in theory, laws are supposed to be blind and almost everyone has the right to vote (although this may be more symbolic than meaningful). The very fact that people today see inequality as unfair and 'wrong' is evidence of cultural changes that are still happening. In past societies, inequality was accepted as normal, natural, and was supported by both secular and sectarian traditions and ideologies. Obviously we still have a way to go in making reality match our ideals of equal justice, equal opportunity, and equal say in public forums, but compared to the past, we seem to be making progress. It's just taking a while. I'd love to be able to come back in a century or two to see how we're doing, but alas this seems unlikely unless some technological advance makes this possible.
Aaaaaaaand right as were're the midst of this discussion I stumble on this...http://www.wired.com/2011/07/ff_swr/Oh boy
Interesting article. Makes me almost want to be a writer, to use some of those ideas in stories. And I don't find the suggested experiments any more ethically wrong than so much that humans do to each other now. Granted, researchers are held to a higher ethical standard than tyrants (yes, duh), but, yeah, I'd volunteer for a few of those.
And that's the thing, no? Research scientists *do* think about consequences. Maybe not always enough, if the line of experimentation is going down an exciting path. But they sure think about ethics more than, say, Mugabe, who, last I heard, isn't being much pressured to be more ethical. Zimbabwe and North Korea, etc., are basically social experiments, no? Just saying.
Oh no doubt. But the evils perpetrated by unethical leaders usually die with them. I can easily see how an unethical (or merely overly enthusiastic) scientist in the biotechnology feilds could generate something horrific that would haunt us for generations.(That's not meant to dismiss or discount the evils of said leaders. Just raise an interesting contrast.)
Technology is a force multiplier for both good and evil. In the hands of a good leader, it can do great things. In the hands of a monster, it can be terrifying.
The thing I fear most about the technology that we're developing now that used to be science fiction, has to be artificial intelligence. Not because of Terminator and killer robots, but because I think AI will become fully developed over the internet and may be a petulant child who has the keys to the overrides to the labs where biological weapons are developed, and no conscience to keep it from setting those weapons loose on the world.
D.L. wrote: "All true, but equal access to whatever society offers has never held for all its members. Serfs and lords did not share and share alike, and I imagine there were even (unfair) inequalities in the c..."Absolutely. Though hunter-gatherer societies were (in theory) the model of material equality - in the sense that within the communities of their day, there were no class distinctions to speak of - we are today closer to true equality than at any point in our "civilized" past. While the gap between rich and poor nations, and the gap between rich and poor people (especially in developing nations) is still prominent, the sheer percentage of human beings that have pulled out of illiteracy, drudgery and servitude over time by technological improvement is staggering.
In the developed world, even with the shrinking of the middle class in the last 30 years, we are more privileged, educated and living longer lives per capita than at any time in our history. On top of that, the fastest growing economies in the world today are China, India, Brazil, Russia, Mexico, Indonesia, and Sub-Saharan Africa. By 2050, Asia will have caught up and overtaken economic growth in the west, and by the latter half of this century, it is estimated that Africa will become the new powerhouse of growth the way China and India currently are.
@ Jason Sometimes the evils don't did with certain leaders, some nations have generational leaders. A good example of that would be N Korea and many of the middle eastern kingdoms
This discussion about human progress rather reminds me of a Shakespearean quote (that I disagree with): "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones." I think it's more the other way around. It also relates to the 'butterfly' effect, the one that suggests the draft caused by a butterfly's wings can lead to a hurricane somewhere else in the future.That's probably not clear, so let me explain. We can't know for certain what our actions will eventually lead to, who they will help, who they will harm, but everything everyone does has consequences and impacts the things that follow. Just getting in your car and going to the store affects traffic patterns and may cause some other motorist to arrive at his destination a minute later than he otherwise might—which, in turn, has has other consequences.... The actions of some people, such as political leaders, inventors, and scientists, can have more obvious and far reaching consequences than than those of most people. They can cause or prevent wars, significantly help or impair the economy, and other such things. But if what they do causes harm to humanity, humanity recovers (eventually) and moves on. On the other hand, if what they do provides some benefit to humanity, other people will build on it. It's a kind of social Darwinism (which I'm not advocating other than as a metaphor). Actually, it's probably more like cultural farming. Things that harm humanity are like weeds in the fields, which we pull out and destroy. But things that benefit humanity are cultivated and selectively bred.
It's not impossible that some person or group of people will come up with something so incredibly stupid and destructive that it could cause our extinction, but I think it's unlikely. Whether the thing is some technology or ideology, people will eventually recognize it as a weed before that point and pull it. The sticky point is 'eventually.' Sometimes it takes centuries. People learn, but sometimes we're a bit slow on the uptake.
Micah wrote: "Could we please try to steer away from the tired old Religion vs Science debate?Extreme violence is perpetrated by ANY ideology that promotes an "us vs them" world view. That includes religious s..."
Micah wrote: "Could we please try to steer away from the tired old Religion vs Science debate?
Extreme violence is perpetrated by ANY ideology that promotes an "us vs them" world view. That includes religious sectarianism, political ideologies, tribalism, sexism, gender bias, economic rivalries, nationalism, racism, caste social structures...
The whole religion vs science thing is a red herring, and it really destroys interesting discussions like the rest of this thread."
Hear, hear!
Both science and religion are tools. The one thing they have in common is power. Faith is something different entirely, independent of which religious club you've joined.
Renee wrote: "Lightsabers...I read something recently that there are scientists working on recreating the technology that allows lightsabers to work. I honestly can't see any good coming from that."Are you kidding me? Lightsabers are the ultimate in extreme cool! And do you have a link on this? I seriously have to question that something so awesome could truly be happening.
Renee write: I read something recently that there are scientists working on recreating the technology that allows lightsabers to work.
Recreating? you mean we used to have that technology but we lost it? (Come back Erich von Daniken, all is forgiven.)
Recreating? you mean we used to have that technology but we lost it? (Come back Erich von Daniken, all is forgiven.)
Well said, D.L.In this never ending search for "equality" what are we to do with those born more intelligent or prettier or faster runners? Lobotomize, scar and burden with extra weights?
Different people have different skills, talents, abilities, goals, and desires, which is a good thing, I think. A world in which people are all the same would be dull and stagnant. The only equality that a society can provide is equal opportunity; an environment in which each unique individual is free to pursue and develop his or her talents and interests (provided, of course, that those interests do not infringe on the rights of other people to pursue theirs).But this is getting way too philosophical. All I was really trying to say originally was that technology doesn't scare me. :-)
Renee wrote: "Lightsabers...I read something recently that there are scientists working on recreating the technology that allows lightsabers to work. I honestly can't see any good coming from that."The technology would be great for drilling holes is stubborn metals and such. Also might beat lasers for cutting shapes.
I've got a composite wall that I'd LOVE to run some wires through, but my drill bits just sit there and wear themselves dull. That technology would be great for such a task if I could afford the tool.
They apparently developed telepathy the other day; non-invasive B2B technologies. Not sure how much of a hoax that is, but I hope it's real. The implications are terrible.
Rabindranauth wrote: "They apparently developed telepathy the other day; non-invasive B2B technologies. Not sure how much of a hoax that is, but I hope it's real. The implications are terrible."Links or it didn't happen ;P
Right, my bad x_x
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3...
That isn't the original site I saw it on, but it's essentially the same article.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3...
That isn't the original site I saw it on, but it's essentially the same article.
Rabindranauth wrote: "Right, my bad x_xhttp://www.plosone.org/article/info%3...
That isn't the original site I saw it on, but it's essentially the same article."
Not a hoax at all. The technology has been in development for years, and proceeded from brain-to-computer, to brain-to-rat, and then brain-to-brain. Its just a matter of reading the brainwaves, transmitting said brainwaves from one computer to the next, and then passing them on to the person at the other end.
Thomas wrote: "Well said, D.L.In this never ending search for "equality" what are we to do with those born more intelligent or prettier or faster runners? Lobotomize, scar and burden with extra weights?"
I don't remember the writer or the title but I remember reading a short story were the authorities basically did that when you reached maturity. Above normal eye sighted people are forced to wear thick glasses, fast runners must wear weighted shoes, tall people wear clothes that cause them to hunch over. People are forced to conform to an average level to maintain a level of civil happiness.
Matthew wrote: I don't remember the writer or the title but I remember reading a short story were the authorities basically did that when you reached maturity "I think that's Harrison Bergeron, by Kurt Vonnegut. Great story.
Jen wrote: "Matthew wrote: I don't remember the writer or the title but I remember reading a short story were the authorities basically did that when you reached maturity "I think that's Harrison Bergeron..."
It's actually a repeated theme in Vonnegut. It first appeared as part of his invented religion, the Church of God the Utterly Indifferent in his 1959 novel The Sirens of Titan.
The short story you link to was from 1961 and was reprinted in 1968 in Welcome to the Monkey House.
The concept is that of "equality of outcome" rather than "equality of opportunity." One must be careful not to conflate the two.
Rabindranauth wrote: "Right, my bad x_xhttp://www.plosone.org/article/info%3...
That isn't the original site I saw it on, but it's essentially the same article."
Reading the results I see this: "Words were encoded using a 5-bit Bacon cipher..."
Bacon cipher. Bacon...cipher. Bacon...! Mmmm.
What's to fear if there's bacon involved?!
Rabindranauth wrote: "Right, my bad x_xhttp://www.plosone.org/article/info%3..."
All kidding aside, the Discussion section of that is really fascinating. That's really very cool...and a bit frightening as well.
"the windup girl" lays it out pretty well
The concept is that of "equality of outcome" rather than "equality of opportunity."Thank you, Micah.
Something to be kept in mind.
Matthew wrote: I don't remember the writer or the title but I remember reading a short story were the authorities basically did that when you reached maturity "I think that's Harrison Bergeron, by Kurt Vonnegut. Great story.
Thanks Jen, that sounds like the one. If not, damn close.
Invisibility cloaking. I still can't believe it's happening.
Thomas wrote: "Invisibility cloaking. I still can't believe it's happening."It's going way beyond cloaking of EMR frequencies...like using metamaterials to "cloak" buildings from seismic waves (earthquakes):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seismic_...
...metamaterials that prevent something being touched:
http://phys.org/news/2014-06-elastic-...
...and even (and this one's the real kicker) metamaterials that cloak space-time events:
http://www.popsci.com/science/article...
If that don't freak you out, you are lifeless and dead! ];P
What scares me: Tracking devices (gps in cell phones, etc), monitoring and listening devices, all that sort of stuff.
The Dick Tracy wristwatch radio/TV was one of my all time dream wishes as a kid growing up in the 50/60s. Now that it's here, it's a computer instead.
That's just freaky. ;-)
Evgeny wrote: "What is depressing and frightening about modern technology development is that the humanity spends much more effort on developing more efficient ways of killing people than on space exploration. We..."Agreed.
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Sirens of Titan (other topics)Welcome to the Monkey House (other topics)
Harrison Bergeron (other topics)
But they're never really treated as actual people (yet).
I mean, do we really (in the US) want to grant corporations the right to bear arms? Can you put a whole corporation in jail? Can a corporation get accidentally run over by a bus? Can we elect one as president? Do they pay into Social Security (not simply withholding payroll taxes from its employees, but paying into it from their income)? Do they have legal citizenship? Can corporations be drafted into military service, serve on jury duty, cast a vote...etc.?
Rich fodder for dystopian fiction, but in real life the closer you get to that, the scarier it gets.