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The Dark Descent of Elizabeth Frankenstein by Kiersten White (November Young Adult Historical Fiction Book of the Month) Starts 16 November, 2018
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DQ Day 3 Ch 17-end10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
Yes I think she would have been a different person. So much of her actions were based on not wanting to be destitute and out on the streets. If she had known she had a large inheritance, I think she would have been less permitting with Victor.
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
I think Victor would have been the same but not shared his thoughts and actions with Elizabeth.
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
I think Victor had her committed so he could continue his work. He does love Elizabeth in a twisted way but he loved his work more.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
Yes I was surprised. I really thought Henry had gotten away. I was not surprised that Mary and Elizabeth befriended the monster because they are both brave women.
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
I think he needed to go forward with his experiment, just based on his psyche.
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
I loved this retelling. Retellings are one of my new favorite genres. I'm currently listening to Unhinged a retelling of Alice in Wonderland.
6)Sometimes we are strangers even to ourselvesAnother great quote in this book! Do you think Elizabeth was just referring to Henry here or about all 3 of them? She seems quite restless and unsettled since finding Victor. Why do you think this is?
I think she was referring to all of them. Deep down, Elizabeth knows that she has been protecting Victor from getting into trouble. I think she is now questioning whether her actions were the right ones. She knows she has allowed Victor to be who he is but now she realizes an unintended price may be paid for doing so.
7) It's fairly well established a this point that everyone is frightened of Victor to the point where most seem to want to avoid him as much as possible. Elizabeth comments that at night when she was scared and having horrible nightmares she went to Victor. And sleeping by his side, she had no nightmares. Why do you think that is?
I think Elizabeth doesn't fear Victor because she believes he will never cause her any harm. Victor scares other people. They know what he is capable of. Elizabeth, however, always seems to bring a sense of tranquility to Victor in his darkest times. In turn, she views him as her protector.
8) Why do you think everyone was so willing to believe Justine killed William? To believe her going mad so suddenly and randomly? Do you think she actually did it? If not, who do you think it was?
I think everyone looks at where Justine came from. Her mother has just made a very public scene due to the death of her children. People have witnessed how cruel she was to Justine, so I think the town people have an attitude of like mother, like daughter. Furthermore, having the necklace found near to Justine and her spending the night so close to where William was murdered makes her an easy target to place the blame upon. People want the crime solved. They do not want to fear a murderer walking among them. I absolutely do not believe Justine murdered William.
9) Elizabeth sees her actions towards saving Justine from her previous life as the only selfless thing she has done in her life. Do you think her actions were truly selfless though?
Unfortunately I think everything Elizabeth does is to save herself. I do believe she took pity on Justine and wanted to remove her from a situation that Elizabeth could easily relate to however. But, by having Justine around to take care of the other 2 children, Elizabeth was free to focus on Victor and she didn't need to be burdened with children that she had little (or no) feelings for.
10) Upon seeing the monster having a conversation with Victor, that Victor appears to lose, Elizabeth's reaction is to find out what it is holding over Victor, remove the hold, then kill the monster. Do you think this is a normal reaction? What would you have done?
I think this is a normal reaction for Elizabeth. Victor is her primary concern. He frequently says Elizabeth is his, but I think he is actually hers in many ways. She will stop at nothing to protect Victor. I am not sure what I would have done. I think killing the monster would be a priority though!
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Discussion Questions Part 2 (Ch 12 to 16)6)Sometimes we are strangers even to ourselves
Another great quote in this book! Do you think Elizabeth was just referring to Henry here or about all 3 of them? She seems quite restless and unsettled since finding Victor. Why do you think this is?
I think she was talking about herself because of how she puts on a persona versus how she truly feels, which is revealed to the reader. She seems restless because she hasn't seen him in a while and is worried about losing him again. Also, the circumstances in which she found him was very shady, so I'm sure she's still processing everything that happened and what she saw (his laboratory, the shadowy figure following her).
7) It's fairly well established a this point that everyone is frightened of Victor to the point where most seem to want to avoid him as much as possible. Elizabeth comments that at night when she was scared and having horrible nightmares she went to Victor. And sleeping by his side, she had no nightmares. Why do you think that is?
I don't know. They seem to have a weird relationship. Doesn't he abuse her? They have a strange connection, even though it is somewhat toxic.
8) Why do you think everyone was so willing to believe Justine killed William? To believe her going mad so suddenly and randomly? Do you think she actually did it? If not, who do you think it was?
Everyone thought it was her because of the necklace as evidence next to her bedside. And because she confessed. She didn't do it, it was Victor's monster, the same person who seems to be tormenting Elizabeth. I think Justine maybe was confronted by the monster and was threatened by it, that she just confessed out of fear.
9) Elizabeth sees her actions towards saving Justine from her previous life as the only selfless thing she has done in her life. Do you think her actions were truly selfless though?
Yes, because Elizabeth felt that she was truly saving Justine. Elizabeth saw herself in Justine and remembered how she escaped her abusive caretaker and created this much better life for herself. Elizabeth projected those same feelings and experiences onto Justine.
10) Upon seeing the monster having a conversation with Victor, that Victor appears to lose, Elizabeth's reaction is to find out what it is holding over Victor, remove the hold, then kill the monster. Do you think this is a normal reaction? What would you have done?
Yes, the monster seems sinister and in control. Elizabeth knows this is the figure that has been following her and William's true murderer. She also senses that Victor is in trouble and will do anything to save him.
10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?I am really torn by this question. I think Elizabeth knowing about her inheritance might have changed everything for her. She would not have been worried about safety and security. She would not have had to rely on Victor as a way of securing a home. On the other hand, there seems to be such a bond between Elizabeth and Victor that I'm not sure knowing she could be independent would have made a difference until it was too late to turn back.
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
Nothing would have stopped Victor. While I believe Elizabeth did know Victor was doing terrible things, I do not believe that she knew the extent of his actions. I do think she was complicit in the fact that she covered things up for Victor and taught him how to do so as well however!
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?I think Victor committed her to the asylum for his convenience. He had plan and work to be done and he was committed to following through with that work. Elizabeth had started to question his actions and Victor knew that she did not approve of what he did to Justine. Victor wasn't going to be stopped by Elizabeth or the monster.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
I knew early on that Victor had killed Henry. I hoped it wasn't true but wasn't surprised when the truth was finally revealed. I liked that the monster became Adam. He was truly some of the best parts of the people that Mary and Elizabeth loved.
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
Elizabeth had changed after Justine. I do not think Victor would ever have her back the way she had been. Victor was never going to accept Elizabeth had changed however. He could only see her how he wanted to see her.
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
I am usually hesitant about retellings. In this case, I have never read the original (shame, I know!). I really enjoyed this story and am looking forward to reading the original now however. It will be interesting to read the retelling first for a change!
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Pt. 1:1. Justine seems to be more inherently self-less. While both have had struggles, Elizabeth has chosen to do whatever she can to fight out of it, while Justine has chosen to be happy with the flow of her life.
2. Elizabeth doesn't want to lose her place with the family. Keeping Victor in check is an important aspect of keeping that position.
3. I do not know what I would do. I did feel Elizabeth's response to be a bit manipulative. Getting married would take her into a new type of life, but she has achieved a certain level of power she did not want to relinquish.
4. I am relatively certain it is a who which jumped out the window. I did not assume it was the same man spying on her later, but that is a good connection.
5. I have not read a lot of re-tellings. I can't remember another I have read.
Pt. 26. I felt like it was more of a truth than a comment about any one character. Victor disappeared and Elizabeth doesn't have knowledge or control over what happened. This is an uncomfortable and new situation for her.
7. Elizabeth knows Victor in a more intimate way than most. While he scares others, his constancy provides comfort to Elizabeth.
8. Justine experiences a tragic loss and was mourning. When women grieve, they lose their minds and become capable of committing any and all types of atrocities. This is true, right? Clearly the only possible explanation during the time. I do not believe she did it and find Victor to be the most believable suspect.
9. I think it was self-less. Elizabeth had very little to gain when originally interfering on Justine's behalf. Keeping her may have become more selfish, but the original act was self-less.
10. Elizabeth seems very protective of Victor. I suppose it would be natural to uncover what is going on with a stranger. I don't know if her actions are ever *normal*, but do find them in character.
Pt. 310.2. I do believe she would have been a different person and handled many aspects of her life differently if she knew she was trying to hold onto her own inheritance (or if she knew it existed). Although, she may have continued to be manipulative and fluid to stay with her protectors, but would have had different goals and relationships.
11. I found Elizabeth to be an enabler. She could have gotten Victor help, but believed she would have lost her position if she was unable to keep him in check.
12. I believe it was to keep her out of the way.
13. I did think it was surprising at first, but found it to be less so as the story unfolded.
14. No, I do not think Victor was successful.
15. This was my first re-telling (I believe). It has been a long time since I read the original. I did pick up on a few aspects of the original, but for the most part found the story to be fresh without too much dependence on the older one.
DQ Day 3 Ch 17-end10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
Yes, things would have definitely played out differently. She was unsure of her true parentage, thus was relying on her friendship/relationship with Victor to be the sole reason the Frankensteins kept her around. In her mind, if she left the Frankensteins, she would have nothing. If she knew of her fortune, she would have been able to leave at age 21 or whenever she wished.
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
I guess you can say everyone had a hand in Victor's madness because no one was strict with him. He was allowed to do whatever he wanted.
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
Elizabeth was committed to the asylum because she was a loose end. She knew of Victor's dark secrets and would get in the way of his bigger plan.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
I liked the twist that the monster was Henry. He was a very likable character, and while it was sad that he was dead and a grotesque monster, it was nice to see him "live" and his soul untarnished. It wasn't surprising that Victor killed him because towards the end of the book, you see Victor as a heartless murderer and crazed scientist who was willing to do anything for his experiments. It was nice that Elizabeth, Mary, and Adam became friends in the end and not surprising at all because, as I mentioned before, his good soul remained the same.
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
No, he didn't succeed because Elizabeth managed to escape. Victor's reasoning for experimenting on Elizabeth was to keep her forever as his own. It was always about controlling Elizabeth.
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
Again, I have nothing to compare with work to as I did not read the original nor have a read other retellings. Overall, I liked the story and gave it 3 stars.
DQ Day 3 Ch 17-end10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
I think if she had known that she would have left Victor and made her own life. It is much easier to endure hardship if she knew it has an end on her 21st birthday. I do think she would have been at least somewhat different.
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
I think she contributed in that she did not tell him when what he did was wrong. I think he probably would have just not told her though.
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
She was committed so that Victor could continue his work. Having her free and able to expose him would have made continuing his experiments harder.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
No, Victor clearly wanted to be all Elizabeth cared about. I am not surprised that they made friends with him. He was after all something of the people that he was made from. He deserved the chance to start a new life, so a new name is appropriate.
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
I think he at least believed that he had succeeded, but his real purpose was to control her and have her as his again.
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
I enjoyed the retelling. I don't remember the original well enough to make a comparison, and I haven't read any other retellings.
Part 3.10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
I think so because she always felt unwanted and without resources. This would make her feel less desperate.
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
Nope, he is responsible for his own actions. I doubt he would have heard her or would just would have gone to more lengths not to tell her.
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
It was to keep her or anyone else including Adam from interfering with his work.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
Not surprised at all. Victor would kill those in his way and not want to "waste" a body. Adam has shifted in more recent versions to being more misunderstood so not surprised after all he was also a victim of Victor.
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
I think because Victor was dead, he could not win because he no longer controlled Elizabeth.
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
I really like it. The voices and new perspectives were strong. It wasn't just a retelling but a fully new story while retaining the feel if the original.
DQ Day 3 Ch 17-end10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
I am not convinced that she would have been. She became besotted with Victor at a very early point and i feel she might have been too young at that point to realise what the money had meant. She also thought her love could change Victor. It might have made her different with Justine and Mary or Henry but i think hers was a true love that would not have been significantly altered
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
I think this is just an attempt by Victor to shift blame - it took a long time for Elizabeth to see the full depravity of his actions and that wouldn't change
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
I think we have to start from the premise that Victor was mad, everything he did was to further his experimentation. This included committing Elizabeth. He also needed Elizabeth's money. Nothing was done for anyone but him and his creation
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
I was not surprised by anything Victor did - his mania led him to plumb ever greater depths. I think Elizabeth and Mary were drawn to make friends by the fact that the monster was "composed" partly of people they loved so I wasnt surprised
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
I am not sure I understand this question. Firstly he hadn't succeeded with Elizabeth she fought against him to the end and secondly he is dead so how can he succeed<?i>
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
I though this was very good. I enjoyed English literature at school and obviously I love books but i feel our children's potential to enjoy book is being stunted by an emphasis on the classics in schools and I truly believe that schools should introduce retellings alongside their curriculum to encourage a greater love for books. Can ANY of you imagine never picking up a book? I have 3 sons - 2 of whom read only to their Kids and I think it is a shame
SandyC wrote: "Discussion Questions Part 1 (pg 1-124)1. I love this quote in the story. “Justine did not have to pretend, as she always seemed genuinely unaware of the effect we had on men. I, however, was perf..."
did you know the story that it retells - Wild Swans: Three Daughters of China? TBH the description on goodreads wouldn't attract me to this book but i do love retellings. I don't know the original and wonder if i would need to read that first
Judith wrote: "Discussion Questions Part 1 (pg 1-124)1. I love this quote in the story. “Justine did not have to pretend, as she always seemed genuinely unaware of the effect we had on men. I, however, was perf..."
spinning silver has to go on my TBR i love Naomi Novak
Ashleigh wrote: "Discussion Questions Part 1 (pg 1-124)1. I love this quote in the story. “Justine did not have to pretend, as she always seemed genuinely unaware of the effect we had on men. I, however, was perf..."
another addition to the TBR I too loved Achilles by Madeleine Miller and you really should read Circe also by her but i like the sound of the 1001 nights retellings
Discussion Questions Part 1 (pg 1-124)1. I love this quote in the story. “Justine did not have to pretend, as she always seemed genuinely unaware of the effect we had on men. I, however, was perfectly aware of my beauty. I considered it a skill, alongside speaking French, English, Italian, and German. It was a language of its own, in a way; on that translated well in different circumstances.” What does this tell you about the different characters of Justine and Elizabeth?
I think Elizabeth is, by necessity, a bit manipulative and an opportunist while Justine is honest and naive.
2. Elizabeth truly seems able to control Victor’s dark character. She helps him clean up after the incident with his younger brother, and comes up with a story to help save Victor. Why do you think she is able to do that when no-one else seems able to control him?
Perhaps she does it by sheer will! Out of a sense of self preservation because she needs to. Or she is simply good at it, the way some people are good with babies or animals...
3. When Henry proposes to Elizabeth, she immediately begins to worry whether she can be the wife he needs. But she decides to send him to Victor to ask for his blessing. She figures there can be two outcomes - one Victor will return to her and ask her to marry him, or two Victor will give his blessing and she can marry Henry. This “plot” comes from feeling desperate to belong and the fear of not being needed by the Frankenstein’s anymore. What would you do if you felt that way?
I think I would have jumped at Henry's proposal & left Victor to his own devices! I sense that Elizabeth has a dark side all her own & she knows it.
4. When Elizabeth burns down the house that Victor was using for his experiments, she hears a large splash in the river. Who do you think it was fleeing the burning building? Do you think it’s the same man Elizabeth saw out her window at the boarding house and out of her carriage? Or do you think her mind is playing tricks on her?
Oh, could it be Frankenstein's monster? Hmm...
5. Re-tellings are now one of my favorite new genres. Do you like this retelling of the Frankenstein story so far? What other re-tellings have you read that you really liked?
I am enjoying it, but I sense the horror(s) to come.
I did like Cinder & the series...
Discussion Questions Part 1 (pg 1-124)1. I love this quote in the story. “Justine did not have to pretend, as she always seemed genuinely unaware of the effect we had on men. I, however, was perfectly aware of my beauty. I considered it a skill, alongside speaking French, English, Italian, and German. It was a language of its own, in a way; on that translated well in different circumstances.” What does this tell you about the different characters of Justine and Elizabeth?
Elizabeth seems very calculating and wants to be what the person she is with wants, so that she can get what she needs in return. Justine seems like a genuine person more of a what you see is what you get individual.
2. Elizabeth truly seems able to control Victor’s dark character. She helps him clean up after the incident with his younger brother, and comes up with a story to help save Victor. Why do you think she is able to do that when no-one else seems able to control him?
I think it has something to do with her ability to mold herself to others needs and wants. Some of it is clearly desperation as well.
3. When Henry proposes to Elizabeth, she immediately begins to worry whether she can be the wife he needs. But she decides to send him to Victor to ask for his blessing. She figures there can be two outcomes - one Victor will return to her and ask her to marry him, or two Victor will give his blessing and she can marry Henry. This “plot” comes from feeling desperate to belong and the fear of not being needed by the Frankenstein’s anymore. What would you do if you felt that way?
I have no idea what I would do. She is very calculating but I don't feel like she is taking her own happiness into account in her "plotting". I would want to look for what would be best for me.
4. When Elizabeth burns down the house that Victor was using for his experiments, she hears a large splash in the river. Who do you think it was fleeing the burning building? Do you think it’s the same man Elizabeth saw out her window at the boarding house and out of her carriage? Or do you think her mind is playing tricks on her?
I think it is likely the Frankenstein Monster and yes I think it is following Elizabeth.
5. Re-tellings are now one of my favorite new genres. Do you like this retelling of the Frankenstein story so far? What other re-tellings have you read that you really liked?
I absolutely loved Hunted by Meagan Spooner a Beauty and the Beast retelling. It was dark and it felt more real that the Disney version I knew better.
I'm not really familiar with the
Discussion Questions Part 2 (Ch 12 to 16)6) Sometimes we are strangers even to ourselves
Another great quote in this book! Do you think Elizabeth was just referring to Henry here or about all 3 of them? She seems quite restless and unsettled since finding Victor. Why do you think this is?
I think she is referring to everyone in general! How many of us say that we truly know ourselves?
Elizabeth has always knows that madness lies just beneath the surface with Victor. Finding him in such a state and knowing how he had been spending his time & what direction his 'studies' had taken was horrific, but not all that surprising to her.
7) It's fairly well established a this point that everyone is frightened of Victor to the point where most seem to want to avoid him as much as possible. Elizabeth comments that at night when she was scared and having horrible nightmares she went to Victor. And sleeping by his side, she had no nightmares. Why do you think that is?
Victor was her sole reason for being in a position of privilege (dubious as it may seem to us) at all. By staying by his side, she could be assured of not being thrown into the street the next moment. And, in his own way, Victor loved her.
8) Why do you think everyone was so willing to believe Justine killed William? To believe her going mad so suddenly and randomly? Do you think she actually did it? If not, who do you think it was?
Justine could no more have killed William than Elizabeth! It's easy to pin the blame on the person with the most opportunity and then she was also found with the gold locket. I think the Monster did it -- Victor's creation.
9) Elizabeth sees her actions towards saving Justine from her previous life as the only selfless thing she has done in her life. Do you think her actions were truly selfless though?
Not at all! She wanted to feel good about something, so she rescued Justine. Then she had a friend and someone who would look upon her as a savior.
10) Upon seeing the monster having a conversation with Victor, that Victor appears to lose, Elizabeth's reaction is to find out what it is holding over Victor, remove the hold, then kill the monster. Do you think this is a normal reaction? What would you have done?
I think that's messed up and rather contrived for the sake of our story! Personally I would have run screaming and got the hell out of Dodge!
DQ Day 3 Ch 17-end10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
I think if she had known about her inheritance, she would have hope. I don't think she would've been so keen on marrying Victor!
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
I think the two were codependent. She needed Victor to value her and give her unconditional love. He needed her love and concern in order to feel powerful and to keep him grounded to this earth. She definitely contributed to his madness by not calling him out! I don't think he was capable of stopping, no matter what she might have said.
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
Back in those times, women were often committed to mental institutions by their husbands and families for reasons like hysteria. They had no recourse. They were chattel. I think Victor had her committed to get her out of the way because she had started fighting back.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
I was totally shocked when we realized that Henry was the monster (for the most part.)!!! I believed that he was safely in England. I was very surprised when the girls became his friend. And Adam? Why not?
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
Victor was completely delusional & very narcissistic in his beliefs. I still can't imagine how he found them in the remote place in all that snow! How could he even imagine experimenting on Elizabeth?
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
Well, the ending was truly shocking! I never imagined that Elizabeth would do that in a million years. All in all, this story was dark and twisted. The motivations & actions weren't typical or believable all the time, but crazy people do act irrationally. I really enjoyed it, though.
Discussion Questions Part 1 (pg 1-124)1. I love this quote in the story. “Justine did not have to pretend, as she always seemed genuinely unaware of the effect we had on men. I, however, was perfectly aware of my beauty. I considered it a skill, alongside speaking French, English, Italian, and German. It was a language of its own, in a way; on that translated well in different circumstances.” What does this tell you about the different characters of Justine and Elizabeth?
Elizabeth seems very calculating and will use whatever tools she has at her disposal to get through life, while Justine is portrayed as sweet.
2. Elizabeth truly seems able to control Victor’s dark character. She helps him clean up after the incident with his younger brother, and comes up with a story to help save Victor. Why do you think she is able to do that when no-one else seems able to control him?
It doesn't seem that she controls him so much as that she is always "on his side" and is willing to help him and cover up his deeds.
3. When Henry proposes to Elizabeth, she immediately begins to worry whether she can be the wife he needs. But she decides to send him to Victor to ask for his blessing. She figures there can be two outcomes - one Victor will return to her and ask her to marry him, or two Victor will give his blessing and she can marry Henry. This “plot” comes from feeling desperate to belong and the fear of not being needed by the Frankenstein’s anymore. What would you do if you felt that way?
It's easy to disapprove in this age, where there are so many options but I can see why she would be desperate to find herself a husband. She can't live with that family forever and she can't work and has no money. She's doing what she feels she needs to to survive
4. When Elizabeth burns down the house that Victor was using for his experiments, she hears a large splash in the river. Who do you think it was fleeing the burning building? Do you think it’s the same man Elizabeth saw out her window at the boarding house and out of her carriage? Or do you think her mind is playing tricks on her?
Must be the creature.
5. Re-tellings are now one of my favorite new genres. Do you like this retelling of the Frankenstein story so far? What other re-tellings have you read that you really liked?
I'm actually finding this book pretty slow, although it picked up a bit once they actually found Victor. Like others, I've liked the Lunar Chronicles. Also The Wrath and the Dawn
Questions Part 2 (Ch 12 to 16)6)Sometimes we are strangers even to ourselves
Another great quote in this book! Do you think Elizabeth was just referring to Henry here or about all 3 of them? She seems quite restless and unsettled since finding Victor. Why do you think this is?
Knowing Victor as well as she does I expect she knows what he was doing and it hiding from the facts. She did know even before they left the town they find Victor in that he has done something he should not have. I think she is referring to how we deceive ourselves and how when we realize that it surprises us.
7) It's fairly well established a this point that everyone is frightened of Victor to the point where most seem to want to avoid him as much as possible. Elizabeth comments that at night when she was scared and having horrible nightmares she went to Victor. And sleeping by his side, she had no nightmares. Why do you think that is?
I guess it is because he took her out of the life she had that was starving her hurting her as a child. So even when she sees the dark side of Victor it doesn't hurt her in the way her previous life did. I normally don't think about books quite this much when I read them.
8) Why do you think everyone was so willing to believe Justine killed William? To believe her going mad so suddenly and randomly? Do you think she actually did it? If not, who do you think it was?
Justine is clearly innocent. She doesn't know what happened. I did wonder how she ended up with the watch. I think the Monster did it and probably it was an accident. Justine may have found the necklace on her way back to the house.
9) Elizabeth sees her actions towards saving Justine from her previous life as the only selfless thing she has done in her life. Do you think her actions were truly selfless though?
I don't think Elizabeth is really capable of selfless ness. She calculates everything. Her pain had to be stopped and Justine was suffering as she had, so she takes her. She also knows I thinking hat doing so will make Justine in her debt.
10) Upon seeing the monster having a conversation with Victor, that Victor appears to lose, Elizabeth's reaction is to find out what it is holding over Victor, remove the hold, then kill the monster. Do you think this is a normal reaction? What would you have done?
I don't know what I would have done. I think her always think of her place in the family and seeing her only way to be there as through Victor may be a mistake. If she tells anyone she will sound crazy though. She is in a difficult position. I probably would have tried to get someone to believe me.
I finally got this book on Scribd (still haven't gotten it at my library!), so if I answer questions will it still count for team points for Jack-in-the-Box? Does it have to be finished by the end of November or will it still count if I read it by the end of the challenge (which is happening way too soon and I'm sad to see it end)!!
Discussion Questions Part 1 (pg 1-124)1. I love this quote in the story. “Justine did not have to pretend, as she always seemed genuinely unaware of the effect we had on men. I, however, was perfectly aware of my beauty. I considered it a skill, alongside speaking French, English, Italian, and German. It was a language of its own, in a way; on that translated well in different circumstances.” What does this tell you about the different characters of Justine and Elizabeth?
Elizabeth seems to be a take charge type of person whereas Justine seems more like a follower. Elizabeth knows what she wants out of life and Justine seems like she is happy to have been rescued from the life she came from.
2. Elizabeth truly seems able to control Victor’s dark character. She helps him clean up after the incident with his younger brother, and comes up with a story to help save Victor. Why do you think she is able to do that when no-one else seems able to control him?
Elizabeth was "given" to Victor so she feels she needs to do whatever it takes to control him. She knows what her job is and feels that if she does not protect and keep Victor under control she will be turned out by the Frankensteins.
3. When Henry proposes to Elizabeth, she immediately begins to worry whether she can be the wife he needs. But she decides to send him to Victor to ask for his blessing. She figures there can be two outcomes - one Victor will return to her and ask her to marry him, or two Victor will give his blessing and she can marry Henry. This “plot” comes from feeling desperate to belong and the fear of not being needed by the Frankenstein’s anymore. What would you do if you felt that way?
I think given the time period I would probably have done the same thing she did. The fear of being turned out in the street would be greater than the fear of marrying either Henry or Victor.
4. When Elizabeth burns down the house that Victor was using for his experiments, she hears a large splash in the river. Who do you think it was fleeing the burning building? Do you think it’s the same man Elizabeth saw out her window at the boarding house and out of her carriage? Or do you think her mind is playing tricks on her?
I'm not sure who it could be. My guess is Victor's first result from his experiment. I definitely don't think her mind is playing tricks on her. Her mind seems very sharp and in that moment she would have been hyper alert for any sounds or movement.
5. Re-tellings are now one of my favorite new genres. Do you like this retelling of the Frankenstein story so far? What other re-tellings have you read that you really liked?
I have read some other retellings of books but they are more contemporary than this version of Frankenstein. It's been quite awhile since I read Frankenstein but this version is definitely easier to read. I'm enjoying it but I think I need to re-read Frankenstein.
Discussion Questions Part 2 (Ch 12 to 16)6)Sometimes we are strangers even to ourselves
Another great quote in this book! Do you think Elizabeth was just referring to Henry here or about all 3 of them? She seems quite restless and unsettled since finding Victor. Why do you think this is?
I don't specifically remember this quote from the book but I think in general this is true. Do any of us really know our true selves or what we are capable of?
7) It's fairly well established a this point that everyone is frightened of Victor to the point where most seem to want to avoid him as much as possible. Elizabeth comments that at night when she was scared and having horrible nightmares she went to Victor. And sleeping by his side, she had no nightmares. Why do you think that is?
Even though she is more aware than everyone else of Victor's gruesome experiments and inclinations, she seems to trust him completely.
8) Why do you think everyone was so willing to believe Justine killed William? To believe her going mad so suddenly and randomly? Do you think she actually did it? If not, who do you think it was?
It's easy to blame an employee, especially when the evidence points her way. Also everyone feels safer and that justice is done, if the murderer is caught.
9) Elizabeth sees her actions towards saving Justine from her previous life as the only selfless thing she has done in her life. Do you think her actions were truly selfless though?
I think she reacted instintively, saving Justine from her mother because of her own past. I don't think Elizabeth generally does anything without calculating the risks and benefits though, so keeping her around would not necessarily be selfless.
10) Upon seeing the monster having a conversation with Victor, that Victor appears to lose, Elizabeth's reaction is to find out what it is holding over Victor, remove the hold, then kill the monster. Do you think this is a normal reaction? What would you have done?
I think she will do whatever it takes to save Victor from himself. Telling someone about the situation seems like it might have been a good idea.
Discussion Questions Part 1 (pg 1-124)1. I love this quote in the story. “Justine did not have to pretend, as she always seemed genuinely unaware of the effect we had on men. I, however, was perfectly aware of my beauty. I considered it a skill, alongside speaking French, English, Italian, and German. It was a language of its own, in a way; on that translated well in different circumstances.” What does this tell you about the different characters of Justine and Elizabeth?
Both characters endured difficult circumstances in their lives.
Elizabeth is manipulative and does whatever is needed to survive while Justine seems more naive and sweet.
2. Elizabeth truly seems able to control Victor’s dark character. She helps him clean up after the incident with his younger brother, and comes up with a story to help save Victor. Why do you think she is able to do that when no-one else seems able to control him?
She seems to have a connection with him and he trusts her to protect him. If something happened to him, she would have nowhere to go.
3. When Henry proposes to Elizabeth, she immediately begins to worry whether she can be the wife he needs. But she decides to send him to Victor to ask for his blessing. She figures there can be two outcomes - one Victor will return to her and ask her to marry him, or two Victor will give his blessing and she can marry Henry. This “plot” comes from feeling desperate to belong and the fear of not being needed by the Frankenstein’s anymore. What would you do if you felt that way?
She really had no other choice than to do what she needed to do to survive. I cannot imagine what I would do in the same circumstance, maybe something similar.
4. When Elizabeth burns down the house that Victor was using for his experiments, she hears a large splash in the river. Who do you think it was fleeing the burning building? Do you think it’s the same man Elizabeth saw out her window at the boarding house and out of her carriage? Or do you think her mind is playing tricks on her?
I think it is most likely Victor's monster.
5. Re-tellings are now one of my favorite new genres. Do you like this retelling of the Frankenstein story so far? What other re-tellings have you read that you really liked?
I enjoyed the Lunar Chronicles and Uprooted.
Discussion Questions Part 2 (Ch 12 to 16)6)Sometimes we are strangers even to ourselves
Another great quote in this book! Do you think Elizabeth was just referring to Henry here or about all 3 of them? She seems quite restless and unsettled since finding Victor. Why do you think this is?
I think she is referring to all three of them. She is worried about what Victor is up to and if he will return.
7) It's fairly well established a this point that everyone is frightened of Victor to the point where most seem to want to avoid him as much as possible. Elizabeth comments that at night when she was scared and having horrible nightmares she went to Victor. And sleeping by his side, she had no nightmares. Why do you think that is?
I think she feels safe with him and she would not have to worry what he could be doing while he was beside her.
8) Why do you think everyone was so willing to believe Justine killed William? To believe her going mad so suddenly and randomly? Do you think she actually did it? If not, who do you think it was?
It was easy to blame her after her mother's madness. I do not think she actually did it. The monster was my initial assumption but then I started leaning towards Victor because of the other brother's death.
9) Elizabeth sees her actions towards saving Justine from her previous life as the only selfless thing she has done in her life. Do you think her actions were truly selfless though?
No, I think she did it because she wanted a companion and friend.
10) Upon seeing the monster having a conversation with Victor, that Victor appears to lose, Elizabeth's reaction is to find out what it is holding over Victor, remove the hold, then kill the monster. Do you think this is a normal reaction? What would you have done?
I think it is a normal reaction for Elizabeth because she is accustomed to saving Victor. I'm not sure what I would have done in her situation.
DQ Day 3 Ch 17-end10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
I think there is a chance she would have acted differently, but she repeatedly says she doesn't know who she is without Victor. She is who she is because of him. I would hope she would have acted differently but there is really no way to know.
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
I have a feeling Victor was already beyond help by the time Elizabeth arrived. She maybe enabled his madness, but I don't think he would have stopped just because she asked him to. Or told him not to do something.
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
I think Elizabeth being in an asylum was a way for Victor to work and not be bothered.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
I suspected that Henry had been killed when Elizabeth found the hat. I wasn't surprised that Mary and Elizabeth befriend the monster, but I didn't expect it.
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
I think Elizabeth wasn't as modable as Victor needed and he needed her to be more like the child she was when they first met. I imagine Victor did succeed in his experiments. He seems rather proud of himself.
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
I haven't read the original so I'm not sure. I did enjoy the story more than I expected to. I normally avoid anything that is labeled horror, but this wasn't as bad as I thought. I'm glad it was a BOM and I read it. Now I guess I should read the original.
DQ Day 3 Ch 17-end10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
I think she would have been a different person because she could have the security she desired and she would not have to worry about surviving on her own.
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
I think he was already mad when she came to the Frankensteins, but she was an enabler for him. I don't think she could have stopped him.
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
I think it was just to get Elizabeth out of the way so Victor could continue what he was doing.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
I was pretty sure Victor had killed Henry but I was surprised that he used him in the monster. I was a little surprised that the women friended the monster.
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
I don't think he succeeded.
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
I enjoyed this book. I have not read the original Frankenstein so I do not know how it compares.
Discussion Questions Part 2 (Ch 12 to 16)6)Sometimes we are strangers even to ourselves
Another great quote in this book! Do you think Elizabeth was just referring to Henry here or about all 3 of them? She seems quite restless and unsettled since finding Victor. Why do you think this is?
Do we ever truly know ourselves or others completely? Everyone is constantly evolving to suit the environment they are in. People also always tend to hold back a little of themselves that no on else knows about them. I'm constantly finding myself commenting to people "I didn't know that about you." I think she knows Victor is a huge wildcard. She never knows what he is going to do next. Elizabeth has to keep on her toes when it comes to him.
7) It's fairly well established a this point that everyone is frightened of Victor to the point where most seem to want to avoid him as much as possible. Elizabeth comments that at night when she was scared and having horrible nightmares she went to Victor. And sleeping by his side, she had no nightmares. Why do you think that is?
Elizabeth was "given" to Victor at a tender age thus instilling that sense of security when she is around him, if she didn't have Victor she would not be in the position of privilege she is in. Victor is her security blanket.
8) Why do you think everyone was so willing to believe Justine killed William? To believe her going mad so suddenly and randomly? Do you think she actually did it? If not, who do you think it was?
Someone needed to be the scapegoat and Justine fit the bill. I don't think she killed him. I don't think she had it in her to harm anyone. I think Victor's creation killed William.
9) Elizabeth sees her actions towards saving Justine from her previous life as the only selfless thing she has done in her life. Do you think her actions were truly selfless though?
Absolutely not! She needed someone to boost her ego and Justine fit the bill. Plus, Justine helped with the younger children giving Elizabeth more time for Victor.
10) Upon seeing the monster having a conversation with Victor, that Victor appears to lose, Elizabeth's reaction is to find out what it is holding over Victor, remove the hold, then kill the monster. Do you think this is a normal reaction? What would you have done?
Elizabeth has/needs to have control over Victor in order to do this she needs to know what secrets he might have. I think she feels she needs to kill the monster to eliminate anything that would cause her to lose control over Victor. I think most people including myself would feel this way if put in this situation. He endangers her lifestyle.
DQ Day 3 Ch 17-end10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
I definitely think she would have been a different person, a less conniving person who didn't feel she had to fight tooth and nail for her security. I do think that she would have still felt that she needed to control Victor.
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
I think Victor was beyond help already by the time Elizabeth was brought. I don't think anyone knew the true level of his madness. I think she enabled him by covering things up and making sure that no one knew about his madness.
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
I think Victor had her institutionalized so that he could run wild and work freely without being hindered.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
No, it wasn't surprising that he killed Henry. I think he was very jealous of Henry. I also was not surprised that the ladies befriended the monster. They were trying to gain his trust by allowing him to change his name.
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
Victor wanted Elizabeth to be the scared little girl she was when she came to the Frankensteins. I don't think he was successful with his experiment.
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
I enjoyed this book but it has been so long since I read the original that I can't fairly compare the two. I haven't read any other retellings of Frankenstein.
DQ Day 3 Ch 17-end10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
I think so. Many of her actions seemed due to being scared of being thrown into the street with no money, family, or way to look after herself.
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
She seemed to go along with anything he wanted, which is part of why he had such strong feelings for her, but if she had shown some disapproval, he might of at least tried to curb some of the behaviour, if not stopped.
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
I don't think it was to keep her safe, so much as to keep her from interfering with Victor's work.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
I suspected that Henry might be dead when he didn't contact Elizabeth at all after going after Victor. I'm glad that they were so welcoming of the monster, who would not be accepted by anyone else.
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
I hope not.
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
I didn't really enjoy this book very much. Was bored for much of it and ended up rating it 2 stars.
Discussion Questions Part 1 (pg 1-124)1. I love this quote in the story. “Justine did not have to pretend, as she always seemed genuinely unaware of the effect we had on men. I, however, was perfectly aware of my beauty. I considered it a skill, alongside speaking French, English, Italian, and German. It was a language of its own, in a way; on that translated well in different circumstances.” What does this tell you about the different characters of Justine and Elizabeth?
Justine was a more pure-hearted, happy person by nature. Loyal, a good friend, a bit simpler in mind but kinder without as many hidden motivations as Elizabeth. Elizabeth knew how to manipulate, how to use her beauty to get her way.
2. Elizabeth truly seems able to control Victor’s dark character. She helps him clean up after the incident with his younger brother, and comes up with a story to help save Victor. Why do you think she is able to do that when no-one else seems able to control him?
She is good as manipulating, but also she plays to his ego. He is interested in having someone to be able to be over, mold and control. She realizes he is doing this, but I don't think she realizes how fully.
3. When Henry proposes to Elizabeth, she immediately begins to worry whether she can be the wife he needs. But she decides to send him to Victor to ask for his blessing. She figures there can be two outcomes - one Victor will return to her and ask her to marry him, or two Victor will give his blessing and she can marry Henry. This “plot” comes from feeling desperate to belong and the fear of not being needed by the Frankenstein’s anymore. What would you do if you felt that way?
It's not an unrealistic or uncommon thought. She seemed to wrap all her hope and identity on Victor continuing to 'save her.' She would likely be too complicated for Henry in the long run without getting Victor out of her system first. SHe likes to do manipulative ploys so this "idea" does not surprise me.
4. When Elizabeth burns down the house that Victor was using for his experiments, she hears a large splash in the river. Who do you think it was fleeing the burning building? Do you think it’s the same man Elizabeth saw out her window at the boarding house and out of her carriage? Or do you think her mind is playing tricks on her?
I think it is the monster.
5. Re-tellings are now one of my favorite new genres. Do you like this retelling of the Frankenstein story so far? What other re-tellings have you read that you really liked?
I actually do --- Frankenstein is one of my favorite classics, and I'm intrigued by this unusual perspective in the retelling.
Discussion Questions Part 2 (Ch 12 to 16)6)Sometimes we are strangers even to ourselves
Another great quote in this book! Do you think Elizabeth was just referring to Henry here or about all 3 of them? She seems quite restless and unsettled since finding Victor. Why do you think this is?
I think she thinks she knows herself pretty well, so I think she is including all three of them but mainly the other men. I think she thinks she has more power over them than she does, especially Victor. As to being unsettled, it is because she is unsure and Victor has been aware from her. She is not as confident in the turnout anymore.
7) It's fairly well established a this point that everyone is frightened of Victor to the point where most seem to want to avoid him as much as possible. Elizabeth comments that at night when she was scared and having horrible nightmares she went to Victor. And sleeping by his side, she had no nightmares. Why do you think that is?
She sees him as a savior, someone who will always be there by her side, and someone who helps her solve problems.
8) Why do you think everyone was so willing to believe Justine killed William? To believe her going mad so suddenly and randomly? Do you think she actually did it? If not, who do you think it was?
She was seen as "help" and more simple, so they would not have been as surprised. Her mother had a reputation for insanity. I never thought she did it, she seemed too pure and sweet, plus I know the original story =) I figured it was the monster setting her up for body as a bride or Victor with revenge.
9) Elizabeth sees her actions towards saving Justine from her previous life as the only selfless thing she has done in her life. Do you think her actions were truly selfless though?
In a way. I think she saw herself in Justine's role and felt bad, bringing up her own bad memories of abuse she endured. She then wanted to save someone, not knowing what else to do.
10) Upon seeing the monster having a conversation with Victor, that Victor appears to lose, Elizabeth's reaction is to find out what it is holding over Victor, remove the hold, then kill the monster. Do you think this is a normal reaction? What would you have done?
Yes, because she is loyal. She doesn't see a choice other than Victor for her to have a good life. She is used to removing obstacles that stand between them.
DQ Day 3 Ch 17-end10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
She always thought she was no one and only there through luck, fate and Victor. I think knowing the money would have given her a different outlook on life knowing she had choices, would be okay without having to make sure to win and manipulate the others. She saw Victor and the family as her only salvation but if she knew about the money, that would no longer be so.
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
She is not to blame for her madness, it was going on before her....yet, she did act as an accomplice, a sounding board, helping cover up crimes, helping Victor having someone to identify with.
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
Victor committed her because she became an issue - he was coming back to her for his experiment. It was convenient to him.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
I know the original story so I figured he was dead, but I was a bit surprised he was used in parts of the monster. How sad. I loved the ending with the friendship -- it gives a maturity to the characters that is lacking in the original. Not due to author flaw but because people are so close minded. I loved the change this time. Didn't we all secretly want the monster to have a happy ending before?
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
He wanted her to be undead. He always saw her as his mold and creation. He loved her as much as he was able, but he couldn't actually really love. He wanted her docile but he wanted her to overcome death first.
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
I really enjoyed it. I haven't read other Frankenstein retellings. The one was different, dark, and unique - kudos to the author.
Discussion Questions Part 1 (pg 1-124)1. I love this quote in the story. “Justine did not have to pretend, as she always seemed genuinely unaware of the effect we had on men. I, however, was perfectly aware of my beauty. I considered it a skill, alongside speaking French, English, Italian, and German. It was a language of its own, in a way; on that translated well in different circumstances.” What does this tell you about the different characters of Justine and Elizabeth?
Justine and Elizabeth are polar opposites in their action, but so similar by their past. Justine is pure, innocence, but Elizabeth is really smart and knows how to use everything she has for her own advantages.
2. Elizabeth truly seems able to control Victor’s dark character. She helps him clean up after the incident with his younger brother, and comes up with a story to help save Victor. Why do you think she is able to do that when no-one else seems able to control him?
Elizabeth was brought to this family with one purpose to connect with Victor. She is really beautiful and smart, what boy wouldn't like it.
3. When Henry proposes to Elizabeth, she immediately begins to worry whether she can be the wife he needs. But she decides to send him to Victor to ask for his blessing. She figures there can be two outcomes - one Victor will return to her and ask her to marry him, or two Victor will give his blessing and she can marry Henry. This “plot” comes from feeling desperate to belong and the fear of not being needed by the Frankenstein’s anymore. What would you do if you felt that way?
I would leave as I don't believe that I or any woman belongs to any man, but taking Elizabeth past, present and future and current situation - I would think very carefully what is best for me and for others.
4. When Elizabeth burns down the house that Victor was using for his experiments, she hears a large splash in the river. Who do you think it was fleeing the burning building? Do you think it’s the same man Elizabeth saw out her window at the boarding house and out of her carriage? Or do you think her mind is playing tricks on her?
I think there was definitely someone and I think we all can guess who it was.
5. Re-tellings are now one of my favorite new genres. Do you like this retelling of the Frankenstein story so far? What other re-tellings have you read that you really liked?
I have read some retelling, but I don't really like them. All of them were for me 3 or fewer stars. I just compare them with original and for me, it's not as good. But right now I am liking it, bc I have never read the original, but I don't want to jinx it.
Discussion Questions Part 2 (Ch 12-16)6) Sometimes we are strangers even to ourselves
Another great quote in this book! Do you think Elizabeth was just referring to Henry here or about all 3 of them? She seems quite restless and unsettled since finding Victor. Why do you think this is?
I think she's talking about all of them or about all the people in general. I think this quote refers to that all of us try to be someone another in certain situation or with people they are. Elizabeth only knows life with Victor, that she depended on him and she doesn't know her own life without him. And know Victor is secretive and so far away from her that she doesn't know what to do or how to act - she is scared, little girl.
7) It's fairly well established a this point that everyone is frightened of Victor to the point where most seem to want to avoid him as much as possible. Elizabeth comments that at night when she was scared and having horrible nightmares she went to Victor. And sleeping by his side, she had no nightmares. Why do you think that is?
She finds comfort being around him, bc her whole life revolves around him. Also, she feels safe and protected with him as he always tells her that she is his.
8) Why do you think everyone was so willing to believe Justine killed William? To believe her going mad so suddenly and randomly? Do you think she actually did it? If not, who do you think it was?
They needed someone to be guilty, so they can move on. Also, maybe they, after all, didn't like her at all. I don't think she did it, yes she was sad and grieving, but it doesn't say that she will go so far and kill a boy who she loved and cared about. I think it was Victor, bc he hates everyone who is somehow connected to Elizabeth or about who she cares
9) Elizabeth sees her actions towards saving Justine from her previous life as the only selfless thing she has done in her life. Do you think her actions were truly selfless though?
50/50, she wanted to save her from the miserable life what she had, but also, she found a friend and escape.
10) Upon seeing the monster having a conversation with Victor, that Victor appears to lose, Elizabeth's reaction is to find out what it is holding over Victor, remove the hold, then kill the monster. Do you think this is a normal reaction? What would you have done?
I think yes, I think I would, but first I would talk to Victor and not let him lie to me.
DQ Day 3 Ch 17-end10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
I think everyone deserves a chance to build their life as they want and not by choices everyone else does. I think she would be a different person, bc she was afraid that she won't have anything or anyone if Frankensteins send her away, so she secured a stable life for herself by marrying Victor.
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
In one or another way, yes, but it was not intentional, but also she was doing everything to have a good life and home. I think he would hide and lie to her.
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
She wanted the monster to get away, but she definitely didn't want Victor continuing his work. Also, she was doing it to keep her and him safe. That's what she was hoping and thinking.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
No, he was mad and capable of doing anything, so it was not surprised at all. Also, not really, I really liked it, it shows that no matter how you look people will like and love you no matter what if you have a good heart.
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
It may be possible, but we will never know *winky face*
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
I have never read the original, even if I own the book, but now it's more than ever likely that I will read it. So I can't compare original to this book, but overall I liked this book much more than I was expecting. Bc other retellings that I have read so far were really weak for me, just not for me, so with this one I am surprised, but not really, bc I really like dark stories.
Discussion Questions Part 1 (pg 1-124)1. I love this quote in the story. “Justine did not have to pretend, as she always seemed genuinely unaware of the effect we had on men. I, however, was perfectly aware of my beauty. I considered it a skill, alongside speaking French, English, Italian, and German. It was a language of its own, in a way; on that translated well in different circumstances.” What does this tell you about the different characters of Justine and Elizabeth?
That Elizabeth is devious and will do almost anything to have a safe place in life, where Justine seems like someone who would sacrifice herself to help people she loves.
2. Elizabeth truly seems able to control Victor’s dark character. She helps him clean up after the incident with his younger brother, and comes up with a story to help save Victor. Why do you think she is able to do that when no-one else seems able to control him?
She won his trust and he seems to like her, so that's probably why she is able to somewhat control him.
3. When Henry proposes to Elizabeth, she immediately begins to worry whether she can be the wife he needs. But she decides to send him to Victor to ask for his blessing. She figures there can be two outcomes - one Victor will return to her and ask her to marry him, or two Victor will give his blessing and she can marry Henry. This “plot” comes from feeling desperate to belong and the fear of not being needed by the Frankenstein’s anymore. What would you do if you felt that way?
I have no idea what I would do in her situation, but I hope I wouldn't use people the way she did.
4. When Elizabeth burns down the house that Victor was using for his experiments, she hears a large splash in the river. Who do you think it was fleeing the burning building? Do you think it’s the same man Elizabeth saw out her window at the boarding house and out of her carriage? Or do you think her mind is playing tricks on her?
I think it was probably the same man.
5. Re-tellings are now one of my favorite new genres. Do you like this retelling of the Frankenstein story so far? What other re-tellings have you read that you really liked?
It's pretty good so far. I've never read the original, but this has intrigued me enough that I might give it a read someday. One of my favorite retellings is Cinder & Ella by Kelly Oram.
Discussion Questions Part 2 (Ch 12 to 16)6)Sometimes we are strangers even to ourselves
Another great quote in this book! Do you think Elizabeth was just referring to Henry here or about all 3 of them? She seems quite restless and unsettled since finding Victor. Why do you think this is?
She was probably referring to all of them, or at least herself and Victor. I think she's starting to see his true self and it's scary her.
7) It's fairly well established a this point that everyone is frightened of Victor to the point where most seem to want to avoid him as much as possible. Elizabeth comments that at night when she was scared and having horrible nightmares she went to Victor. And sleeping by his side, she had no nightmares. Why do you think that is?
I can't imagine why. Maybe it's the whole keep your friends close and your enemies closer idea?
8) Why do you think everyone was so willing to believe Justine killed William? To believe her going mad so suddenly and randomly? Do you think she actually did it? If not, who do you think it was?
Because the evidence was there and it seemed easier. I didn't think she had anything to do with it, but wasn't sure who actually did it...though I had a couple of suspicions.
9) Elizabeth sees her actions towards saving Justine from her previous life as the only selfless thing she has done in her life. Do you think her actions were truly selfless though?
No, I think she wanted someone there who would be there for her.
10) Upon seeing the monster having a conversation with Victor, that Victor appears to lose, Elizabeth's reaction is to find out what it is holding over Victor, remove the hold, then kill the monster. Do you think this is a normal reaction? What would you have done?
I don't think this is a normal reaction. She should have alerted someone else to the monster or at least to Victor's "experiments".
Discussion Questions Part 1 (pg 1-124)1. I love this quote in the story. “Justine did not have to pretend, as she always seemed genuinely unaware of the effect we had on men. I, however, was perfectly aware of my beauty. I considered it a skill, alongside speaking French, English, Italian, and German. It was a language of its own, in a way; on that translated well in different circumstances.” What does this tell you about the different characters of Justine and Elizabeth?
This quote reminded me of how the two women are so different. Elizabeth is very cunning and a "gifted" liar; whereas, Justine is such an innocent personality and so sweet in nature. She shoots straight and doesn't connive and lie the way Elizabeth. Elizabeth uses her "womanly wiles" to get what she wants, but Justine is a natural beauty who is so pure in heart that she doesn't even consider her effect on others, particularly men.
2. Elizabeth truly seems able to control Victor’s dark character. She helps him clean up after the incident with his younger brother, and comes up with a story to help save Victor. Why do you think she is able to do that when no-one else seems able to control him?
I think that in some ways they are similar personalities. For whatever reason, they bonded from the get-go and I think that gave them a special bond where he listens to her because he's possessive of her/their friendship. He's willing to listen to her because she seems to be his only true friend.
3. When Henry proposes to Elizabeth, she immediately begins to worry whether she can be the wife he needs. But she decides to send him to Victor to ask for his blessing. She figures there can be two outcomes - one Victor will return to her and ask her to marry him, or two Victor will give his blessing and she can marry Henry. This “plot” comes from feeling desperate to belong and the fear of not being needed by the Frankenstein’s anymore. What would you do if you felt that way?
To truly put myself in her shoes, I would have to consider the time in which Elizabeth lived. I would probably do the same thing she did to ensure a marriage and having a man to take care of me. Today, however, I would not do such a thing. I'd marry out of love and know that I can provide for myself.
4. When Elizabeth burns down the house that Victor was using for his experiments, she hears a large splash in the river. Who do you think it was fleeing the burning building? Do you think it’s the same man Elizabeth saw out her window at the boarding house and out of her carriage? Or do you think her mind is playing tricks on her?
No, I don't think her mind is playing tricks on her. But I'm not sure who it was that she saw. It's possible it was the same man.
5. Re-tellings are now one of my favorite new genres. Do you like this retelling of the Frankenstein story so far? What other re-tellings have you read that you really liked?
I love this book so far. My favorite re-tellings are A Court of Thorns and Roses, Hag-Seed, and Scarlet.
DQ Day 3 Ch 17-end10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
I think she would've thought more before marrying Victor, though with how she was so protective of Victor she still might have married him.
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
I don't think anything would have stopped him, but her protecting and pacifying him didn't help at all.
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
Probably for both reasons.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
I wasn't surprised at all by that. In fact I was expecting it the moment I realized what he was doing and even thought he might have forged some of the letters Henry sent, but it doesn't seem that he forged any.
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
No, I don't. I think he died and Elizabeth was saved without the use of his work, though the ending isn't clear about this.
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
It was different than other retellings I've read, but I think that's mostly because of the genre being horror when the majority of the retellings I've read are fairy tales.
Discussion Questions Part 2 (Ch 12 to 16)6) Sometimes we are strangers even to ourselves
Another great quote in this book! Do you think Elizabeth was just referring to Henry here or about all 3 of them? She seems quite restless and unsettled since finding Victor. Why do you think this is?
I think she was referring to all three of them because she includes themselves in the general population. In other words, she was referring to everyone.
7) It's fairly well established at this point that everyone is frightened of Victor to the point where most seem to want to avoid him as much as possible. Elizabeth comments that at night when she was scared and having horrible nightmares she went to Victor. And sleeping by his side, she had no nightmares. Why do you think that is?
I think she does that because she is crazy! LOL But seriously, I think that up to that point and throughout their lives, she and Victor had such a close bond that she doesn't fear him if she is right by his side. She can't conceive of the possibility that he'd hurt her if she's right there to talk him down.
8) Why do you think everyone was so willing to believe Justine killed William? To believe her going mad so suddenly and randomly? Do you think she actually did it? If not, who do you think it was?
I definitely don't think that Justine killed William. In that day and time it was easy to use a woman of Justine's class and lack of being "somebody" in society, so she was simply their scapegoat.
9) Elizabeth sees her actions towards saving Justine from her previous life as the only selfless thing she has done in her life. Do you think her actions were truly selfless though?
At the time when I read what she did for Justine, I did think her actions were selfless; however, now that the story has progressed, I think that based on her character traits she did have alternative reasons for helping Justine. I believe that one reason was simply to help her but not the only reason.
10) Upon seeing the monster having a conversation with Victor, that Victor appears to lose, Elizabeth's reaction is to find out what it is holding over Victor, remove the hold, then kill the monster. Do you think this is a normal reaction? What would you have done?
I don't know what I would have done if truly confronted with that situation, but knowing myself today I don't think I'd have killed the monster myself. I'm too chicken. I don't think it was normal because in reality I don't think most women would do such a thing.
DQ Day 3 Ch 17-End10) Judge Frankenstein did not let Elizabeth know that he was fighting to get her inheritance back. If she would have known, do you think she would have handled things differently with when she found Justine and forced a marriage between her and Victor? Would she have been a different person?
I doubt it simply because of the times in which Elizabeth lived. I think she would have been the same regardless.
11) Victor said, “You made it clear from the start you did not care what I did so long as you did not have know the specifics. It was our agreement.” Did Elizabeth contribute to Victor’s madness? If she would have told him he went was going too far at any time, would he have stopped or just not tell her?
I don't think that Elizabeth specifically contributed to his madness, because he's literally mad/insane; however, I do think that by not telling what she knew she did help perpetuate the acts that he committed.
12) Victor wound up leaving after the conversation Elizabeth saw with the monster. Later we found out that he was watching and protecting Elizabeth. Was Elizabeth committed to an asylum to keep her safe or to get the monster out of the way so Victor would be able to continue with his work?
I am pretty sure she was committed to make sure she remained quiet. I don't think it was to protect her at all.
13) Was it surprising that Victor killed Henry and used part of him for his experiments? Were you surprised that Mary and Elizabeth friended the monster and let him chose a new name?
No, nothing surprised me regarding how horrible Victor was to do such a thing. I thought from the beginning that he had or would kill Henry. I did think that for the women to befriend the monster was perhaps a bit of a stretch, but they probably felt that since it was part of Henry there was no way it would hurt them.
14) Do you believe that Victor finally succeeded with his experiment to retrieve Elizabeth or that he needed to go forward with the experiment on her to have her back the way she was?
No, I don't think he succeeded.
15) How did you like this retelling to the original and/or other retellings?
I definitely enjoyed this re-telling very much. What I remember most of the original Frankenstein came from the movies I saw as a young person. They were very popular at the time, but to remember enough to compare it impossible. I do, however, think it fares well with other re-tellings I have read.
Nothing But Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
Cinder & Ella (other topics)The Wrath and the Dawn (other topics)
Circe (other topics)
Wild Swans: Three Daughters of China (other topics)
The Penelopiad (other topics)
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1. I love this quote in the story. “Justine did not have to pretend, as she always seemed genuinely unaware of the effect we had on men. I, however, was perfectly aware of my beauty. I considered it a skill, alongside speaking French, English, Italian, and German. It was a language of its own, in a way; on that translated well in different circumstances.” What does this tell you about the different characters of Justine and Elizabeth?
Justine is innocent, sweet, and genuine. Elizabeth is very calculating and manipulative. They are polar opposites, and it is made very clear to the reader.
2. Elizabeth truly seems able to control Victor’s dark character. She helps him clean up after the incident with his younger brother, and comes up with a story to help save Victor. Why do you think she is able to do that when no-one else seems able to control him?
They have some kind of connection that no one else has. Her whole purpose of her residency with the Frankensteins is to keep Victor "in check." If she can't, she must go back to the hardship she came from. That motivates her enough to be able to keep Victor level headed.
3. When Henry proposes to Elizabeth, she immediately begins to worry whether she can be the wife he needs. But she decides to send him to Victor to ask for his blessing. She figures there can be two outcomes - one Victor will return to her and ask her to marry him, or two Victor will give his blessing and she can marry Henry. This “plot” comes from feeling desperate to belong and the fear of not being needed by the Frankenstein’s anymore. What would you do if you felt that way?
I would follow whoever my heart desires because it would be a win-win. Even if the Frankensteins don't need me anymore, I would still have Henry.
4. When Elizabeth burns down the house that Victor was using for his experiments, she hears a large splash in the river. Who do you think it was fleeing the burning building? Do you think it’s the same man Elizabeth saw out her window at the boarding house and out of her carriage? Or do you think her mind is playing tricks on her?
I think it was one of Victor's "experiments." I think it is something superhuman and very real.
5. Re-tellings are now one of my favorite new genres. Do you like this retelling of the Frankenstein story so far? What other re-tellings have you read that you really liked?
It is hard to tell because I have not read the original Frankenstein for comparison. This is also my first retelling, so I have no experience in this genre. One fairytale retelling made into a movie that comes to mind is Ever After WHICH I LOVEDDD. It's a Cinderella retelling that was so well done. I like the concept of them and am looking forward to reading more of them :)