"Ship of Theseus" by J.J. Abrams (BR)

[Mareike]

Yes, I was thinking that about Eric as well. And it almost seems like (view spoiler)[there's larger underlying psychological issues there. Definitely trust issues. I just wonder if they're all down to Moody. Likely not. (hide spoiler)]

Edit: I'm also increasingly getting worried about Jen. Some of the notations (view spoiler)[ - especially the orange ones - seem to indicate that she's derailing her degree due to her fascination/obsession with the book and Straka. And Eric, too, I guess. And he tries to get her to focus, but it feels half-hearted? (hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

OOO! I will catch up to you two today. I've listened to a good chunk of the Ship of Theseus story via audio but need to get the notes in.

[Soo]

Iain - About Eric
(view spoiler)[Even if Eric is as reclusive as Straka, he can't be Straka due to age. Or that would be the assumption if people were living regular lives and all that jazz. =D
(hide spoiler)]

Overall - The writing is great! Not a whole lot is written and yet each scene, character or setting are easy to visualize. Consistent thread of discontent.

Ch. 1 Ellipses ...
The ellipses are used in various spots to end a paragraph and start another. Anyone else think (view spoiler)[that it could be showing the story is not reality but a dream? (hide spoiler)]

p. 12

What begins at the water shall end there, and what ends there shall once more begin.

The phrases on the sticker on the book's case.
Pic (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)]

p.13 - Imperia is the off kilter ship. Which Eric ties up with the off kilter city. Important note?

p. 14 - Argument between Jen & Eric: I'm with Jen. LOL

[Soo]

Page Listing for "S" Symbol in Book

p. xiii
p. 14
p. 100
p. 131 - Mirror
p. 191
p. 290
p. 350 - Partial
p. 387

[Timelord Iain]

Eric: (view spoiler)[I know it shouldn't be possible, but there's so much oddness floating around... in chapter 2, Jen says Eric has died before... and Ship of Theseus could be a time loop or something, if it was another S that drugged MC S and put him on the ship... I got a real horror movie vibe from the start of the book and that quote about the water, you referenced... i remember the movie Ghost Ship, which ends with the ghost crew of the ghost ship reloading the ship for another voyage...

There's also the references to Sobreiro... it's like S is an author through time... or like how multiple characters take up the mantle of superheroes in comics... Straka isn't one author, but many... similar to how the ship Imperia keeps showing up... it's the ship in Ship of Theseus.. it's the ship that Filomela & Straka were on in 1929, and it's mentioned in the insert about Sobreiro's book... (hide spoiler)]

That spoiler connects things from chapter 1 & 2... I've read to page 60...

[Soo]

Ok ok! I am determined to catch up now. Though I was leaning toward finishing Area X trilogy but that can wait.

A tale within a tale of a tale. That's S. You guys know that the book title is just S right? lol

[Soo]

Anyone else feel like we're in a book treasure hunt? =D

Good times!

[Timelord Iain]

Soo wrote: "Anyone else feel like we're in a book treasure hunt? =D

Good times!"

Yea... I've been enjoying the confusion... I wouldn't say what I posted above is accurate, but it's a theory... I'm barely 15% in, so far... but chapter 2 definitely has a lot more orange writing than the first chapter... so more foreshadowing...

[Timelord Iain]

Soo wrote: "Ok ok! I am determined to catch up now. Though I was leaning toward finishing Area X trilogy but that can wait.

A tale within a tale of a tale. That's S. You guys know that the book title is just..."

Yea... and there's so many Ss floating around... the Illuminati-sounding group, the main character, Straka, etc...

[Soo]

I've been taking shots of the book as I feel like I need to. Here's a shot of the important discovery/idea by Jen.

Ch.1 - p. 29
(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

Timelord Iain (Eeyawn) wrote: "Eric: [spoiler removed]"

I noticed the (view spoiler)[notation about Eric dying before, too! That was just so weird!
There do seem to be a lot of Doppelgänger in this book. Or almost-Doppelgänger. (hide spoiler)]

In Ch. 3 (view spoiler)[ Eric writes: I know the you who's in the margins. and that stood out for me because they're both "in the margins" when they write in the book, but they're also both in the margins in real life. Eric as an expunged grad student and Jen because she's an undergrad (i.e. no one important in the pecking order) and because she's trying to figure out what to do with her life. It's interesting that her identity crisis seems mostly triggered by her break-up (which is a bit of a cliché for a female character, I have to say) and her involvement with Eric and the book (again....bit of a cliché...but so far it's well done, so I'm not really complaining. After all, finishing a degree is intimidating, especially if you don't really know what you want to do afterwards.) (hide spoiler)]

@Soo: Yes, that's exactly what it feels like.

[Soo]

Ship - I keep thinking (view spoiler)[ghost ship. Plus the crew having their mouths sewn shut is pretty gruesome. (hide spoiler)]

Insert cheesy music: Jen & Eric (view spoiler)[are totally going to get together! (hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

Ship of Theseus Chapter Titles
(view spoiler)[

Ch1 - What Begins, What Ends
Ch2 - Drifting Twins
Ch3 - The Emersion
Ch4 - Agent X
Ch5 - Down, And Out
Ch6 - A Sleeping Dog
Ch7 - The Obsidian Island
Interlude
Ch8 - The Territory
Ch9 - Birds of Negative Space
Ch10 - Ship of Theseus

(hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

I'm up to Ch. 3 for Jen & Eric. There's more tension now between their collaboration on figuring out the book & personal lives. Plus the overlap of later notes with past notes make a really cool & aggravating hints at what is coming up.

I'm listening to the audio of Ship of Theseus and it's not the same as reading the book. I find the book to be really well written & fairly evocative. The audio sounds more action oriented and stressed.

I'm reading the story on the page first and then reading the notes by J&E. How are you guys doing it?

[Mareike]

I usually read until the point where a notation is indicated, then I read the notation and then the rest of the page. At least wherever that's feasible.

[Timelord Iain]

Jen/Eric: I've thought so since the start... there's that 1 comment where they both use black ink...

[Timelord Iain]

Chapter titles: the Interlude is soo far away... I knew there were 10 chapter from flipping around, the the foreword told us, but not the Interlude, until one of the margins in chapter 2 said [see Interlude]

[Timelord Iain]

I tend to finish a paragraph or page before reading some comments... constant back and forth... if a page ends mid-sentence, I finish the sentence then go back...

[Soo]

The Ship of Theseus is not a long story. It's reading all the notes and piecing them together with what we read in the story/etc that takes up more time. Like I've already listened to half of the book on audio a few times but it's totally not the same as reading the book with the notes. =)

Can't wait to see where the book treasure hunt goes!

I am loving the details for the inserts. The page of the college paper was great! Then there's the telegram copies and translations. I've done research for various things. I love the setup for this book. =D

[Mareike]

Soo wrote: "The Ship of Theseus is not a long story. It's reading all the notes and piecing them together with what we read in the story/etc that takes up more time. Like I've already listened to half of the b..."

I agree! The inserts are amazing. But together with the notes, they do slow you down.
With the college newspaper, I even checked whether the url noted on the page works. (It does not, but I wouldn't have put it past them.)

But I've also noticed that they sometimes mention inserts that are not in the book. (view spoiler)[For example the transcript of the Sumersby recording they mention in Ch. 2 (pg. 64). It clearly changes hands, but doesn't remain in the book. (Probably because it is too important for Eric's research. Though if yoz're so worried/angry about your ideas being stolen, exchanging notes with a stranger in a book and passing that book back and forth via the stacks of the library does not seem like the safest form of communication.....) It's also be another indication that they do meet in person later on. And the notes already heavily hint at that anyway. (hide spoiler)]

@Iain: I know, right?? I've been curious about the Interlude since they first mentioned it.

[Timelord Iain]

The transcript is probably too thick to insert... what gets me, is all the references to the 19 orher books we can't read...

Speaking of 19, the number appeara a lot in the story and facts about Straka's life...

[Mareike]

Timelord Iain (Eeyawn) wrote: "The transcript is probably too thick to insert... what gets me, is all the references to the 19 orher books we can't read...

Speaking of 19, the number appeara a lot in the story and facts about S..."

Ah, yes, I hadn't considered that. So he would have passed that on to her alongside the book? That feels kind of out of character....then again, we don't know how much time passes between her asking to see it and the "THANKS" that indicates that she got it. Based on ink color, however, I'd assume it's before they meet in person.

I agree on all the other novels. And I have a similar feeling about all the made up authors and other people that we only learn more about based on the footnotes and Jane and Eric's comments.

[Timelord Iain]

Mareike wrote: "Timelord Iain (Eeyawn) wrote: "The transcript is probably too thick to insert... what gets me, is all the references to the 19 orher books we can't read...

Speaking of 19, the number appeara a lot..."

Maybe he just set the book on top of the transcript... mighty risky tho... but Jen already commented on the risks in their exchanges early on, anyway...

[Timelord Iain]

Mareike wrote: "Timelord Iain (Eeyawn) wrote: "The transcript is probably too thick to insert... what gets me, is all the references to the 19 orher books we can't read...

Speaking of 19, the number appeara a lot..."

Well... most of the people mentioned in footnotes aren't real, as per Jen & Eric's comments... they mostly feed into the ciphers hidden in them, or are distractions... with a few exceptions... then there's the authors/people that might be VMS... there's a reason I started taking them notes... need to catch up on that, at some point...

[Soo]

LOL - I came to post about how there's another mention of the Interlude on page 74 and Iain's last post is message 74. =D

Coincidences are everywhere~

[Soo]

Ch.3-ish - Anyone else going with Jen's theory that Caldiera is female? I haven't decided one way or another yet.

[Timelord Iain]

Soo wrote: "Ch.3-ish - Anyone else going with Jen's theory that Caldiera is female? I haven't decided one way or another yet."

It's as good a theory as any, at the moment... only thing we have to go on is the Imperia passenger manifest...

[Soo]

p. 80 - More talk about Jen being in trouble. I'm guessing it has to do with her helping Eric.

p. 83 - Aha! (view spoiler)[
(hide spoiler)]

p. 100-101 - Jen's Letter
I liked it but now I'm more curious about why she "disappeared" for a day.

p. 103 - Underlined passage: (view spoiler)[
the most acute is that of knowing that he is letting Sola go, letting her vanish into the an uncertain world of unrevealed secrets.

Orange Note by Jen - It seems like she thinks Eric will vanish on her. (hide spoiler)]

[Mareike]

Soo wrote: "Ch.3-ish - Anyone else going with Jen's theory that Caldiera is female? I haven't decided one way or another yet."

I'm down with that theory.

p.100-101 (view spoiler)[I hadn't put those two things together yet, but yes! What did she do while she disappeared? (hide spoiler)]

p.103 I think so, too.

[Timelord Iain]

After 2 days of distraction, at home, I was planning to continue at work tonight... forgot I pulled it from my supply bag to try & read at home... oops...

[Soo]

LoL - I'm going to make time tomorrow. We'll be back on track!

[Soo]

p. 109 - (view spoiler)[Eric's Note in Red Print:

Arrow Up to Jen's Note in Burnt Orange - Be safe, Eric.

I love that you
kept writing. (hide spoiler)]

Awww, those two.

p. 108-109 ~ Looks like we're in the next phase of notes & things are heating up in the search.

Onto Ch. 4 - Agent X

[Mareike]

P. 109 is really sweet.

In Ch. 4 (view spoiler)[there's several sentences marked with stars drawn with a pencil, but there's no corresponding notation. Once I'm done with the chapter, I'll go back to see if they make any sense when read together (hide spoiler)].

(Oh boy. I'm turning into Jen and/or Eric.

From the later notes, (view spoiler)[it's becoming hard to tell whether they're becoming increasingly paranoid or whether some scary shit is going down. (hide spoiler)]

[Soo]

Ch4+ - How are you guys dealing with the changes of note time as they become more jumbled? I'm trying to read:

- Black & Blue
- Orange & Green
- Purple & Red

Though, it's cool to see how they all intersect regardless.

[Soo]

Ch4 - Agent X

p. 122 - Eric blocked part of the story(view spoiler)[
"For what it's worth," S says, "the harbor is mined. Well, there's one mine, anyway. I ran into it as I was swimming."

Note: Ch.10 (hide spoiler)]

@ Mareike - I'll keep an eye for it too!

[Timelord Iain]

NOO... I guess I'm re-enacting the book... now that I'm at home and getting ready for work again, I can't find the book... my last guess is that I left it at work Monday Night, and never noticed because I didn't touch it when I came home Tuesday-Thursday... I have to hope it's still there somewhere, now, and nobody told me... because otherwise I've lost it...

[Soo]

OH no! Can you text a co-worker? Where would you leave it at work or at home?

[Timelord Iain]

At work now... not seeing it anywhere... the fact I forgot it seems weird... I'm a triple-checker with my supply bag... gonna keep looking on breaks... then another pass at home in the morning... then I probably need to admit defeat...

[Soo]

Got my fingers crossed! Look in lost & found at work. Maybe it ended up there? Otherwise, I say you look behind and under stuff at home. Like under the bed, behind the couch, etc.

[Mareike]

Soo wrote: "Ch4+ - How are you guys dealing with the changes of note time as they become more jumbled? I'm trying to read:

- Black & Blue
- Orange & Green
- Purple & Red

Though, it's cool to see how they all..."

I read all of them as I go, though I try to do it in what I assume is the chronological order if all color appear on one page. If that makes sense.
I love the intersections and the way later notes hint at changes in their thinking about Straka or their relationship.

The purple & red ink (view spoiler)[is definitely the bleakest. On p. 126 when Jen goes "I don't think I can anymore" that does not sound good. What on earth is happening? (hide spoiler)]

p. 142 (view spoiler)[they finally agree to meet! During a screening of "Notorious". The film can't be random. Not with a plot about treason, secret organizations in Brazil, etc There's no notes indicating that Eric didn't show, so I assume this is it. (hide spoiler)]

I also had the somewhat random thought yesterday that (view spoiler)[this might all be one person but with dissociative identity disorder? We know Eric is in hospital at some point and all signs point toward a psych ward. But this is mostly over the top speculation and I don't think it's what's actually going on. Especially since they do seem to actually meet.
But it would make for an interesting twist. (hide spoiler)]

@Iain: Oh no! I hope you find the book!

[Soo]

I haven't gotten to p.142 yet but all signs point to phone conversations. Jen & Eric may not have met in person yet but he did end up getting a phone & talking that way. That's what it looks like. It would also explain why there's some pages with less notes.

[Timelord Iain]

I'm leaning towards it being in some unexpected location at home now... because, like I said, I generally triplecheck my supplies when leaving work... that said, I checked every conceivable place it could be at work... No Lost & Found anymore, really, but I checked Member Services... Break Room... Claims/Returns... the book tables (in case someone thought it was a book we sell) and a handful of other places... and I asked some people if they've seen it, and showed a picture from online... I even put my name on the inside of the monkey flap we had to perforate to get the book out of the sleeve, since I was bringing the book to work... about as thorough as I could be... I really dont want to pay another $25-$30 for another copy...

EDIT: Not turning up anything new, now that I'm home... at this point, it's either buy another copy, or wait and see if a manager stumbles across it... depressing :(

[Timelord Iain]

Until I find my copy, or get another, I'll live vicariously through your non-spoiler-tagged comments...

[Mareike]

Soo wrote: "I haven't gotten to p.142 yet but all signs point to phone conversations. Jen & Eric may not have met in person yet but he did end up getting a phone & talking that way. That's what it looks like. ..."

Yes! I read the note about the mobile phone. That shoots down my other theory mentioned above. It was a stretch.

@Iain: Damn. I hope it still turns up somewhere.

[Soo]

If you take the same bus, maybe talk to the bus driver? That really sucks, Iain.

[Timelord Iain]

I have a car, which mostly gets used for the 5 minute drive to work and back... home is a bust... I live in a pretty small apartment... it could still end up being at work, somewhere... Sam's Club is a warehouse store, with tons of places for things to end up, when people just push things they don't want to deal with out of sight... the main problem is a customer/employee could have found the book and decided to keep it...

[Mareike]

Chapter 5

p. 172 (view spoiler)[the pages like this one, where it's just Jen writing to herself in orange, without any reply by Eric in green or any of Theo other later colors are kinda heartbreaking. She seems so lonely... It also speaks to her continued social isolation. (hide spoiler)]

p.182 (view spoiler)[Eric writes No - Bouchard was S. in reply to a conversation they had about Straka holding a grudge. There are no other comments to that, so I wonder if this is speculation or something they realize later on....and what it has to do with their increasing fear in the later comments. (hide spoiler)]

p. 196 (view spoiler)[Did they love each other? - Were words enough? Would words have been enough if he'd at least been willing to show himself? Or did they need more?
Oh Jen. She's in so deep.
The I'm right here. - I am too. exchange has to be later than that. And the Still. - Still one obviously is. (hide spoiler)]

[Pat the Book Goblin]

I totally forgot about this buddy read!! Sorry guys. Is everyone really far in?

[Soo]

You can jump in at any time, Patrick. =)

You can see that we tried to keep comments in Spoiler tags. I'm at Ch4 and Mareike is around Ch5. Iain was around Ch4 but lost his book and may not be able to finish out the story with us.

Due to the nature of the book, it helps to write the page/chapter of the part you are talking about it. It helps. There are some other things we all picked up on from the beginning. You can read the spoilers/comments for them as you get to that part.

[Mareike]

Patrick wrote: "I totally forgot about this buddy read!! Sorry guys. Is everyone really far in?"

Hey!
As Soo said, just jump in and join it. I've put the book on hold currently while reading something else, so maybe you'll catch up?