LitRPG Forum discussion
[Poll] Which of these do you consistently have a problem with having read or reading LitRPG Books ?
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Shāmil
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Sep 23, 2018 08:41AM
I am curious to see what problems keep popping up for people who are read LitRPGs or story with LitRPG elements.
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Detailed world & system but uninteresting MC/Characters. Lack of states & or tension.
RPG elements being so sparse it might as well just be a regular book.
Coming of like a bad harem anime.
Portrayal of the female characters.
Wasted potential.
Something/things being underdeveloped.
I have to agree with the MC one. I have read quite a few books where everyone BUT the MC is what keeps me reading. I'm also not a big fan of sexual assault/rape being used for shock value. If it's integral to the plot so be it, but I'm not about it being used as the cliche of "getting revenge" or "to break" X character.
My biggest problem is when they try to fix too many genres. Trying to make a fantasy, Sci-fi, superhero, harem, LitRPG all into one. At most you can mix two of those genres. Mixing more than that leads to a terrible book. I like LitRPG because I like the process of building characters and world building. The story itself doesn't have to be that great because I am in it for the character building. Having a LitRPG book where the character building is weak is a problem.
A solid supporting cast can differentiately make for a boring MC, I think maybe writers are making the mistake of confusing relatabllity with being painfully average. Or maybe they are meant to be generic so that it is easier for the reader to imagine themselves as the MC, a similar justification given for using silent protagonists in video games. But with sexual assult I have funnly enough not yet read a book yet where it happens but anicent ruins is a book that I've been planning to read and but some people have a problem with how it's used in it. Ultimately for me I can laugh of poorly handled sexual assult as bad writing but I can understand that for other people it being a big issue but honestly this is probably a issue with writters as a whole not specific to LitRPG writers in my opinion.😅
Shamil wrote: "A solid supporting cast can differentiately make for a boring MC, I think maybe writers are making the mistake of confusing relatabllity with being painfully average. Or maybe they are meant to be ..."I can give you one off the top. Ultimatum Of The Nameless God
While I like the series, a LOT of rape happens in the book. The girl the MC's trying to protect ends up getting sold to a brothel and her father ends up watching a video of it.
I tend to try and stay away from those books. I remember reading in one book the MC was a villain and was double crossed by someone else and experimented on. He came back and killed all the men, and when the guy that double crossed the MC woke up from being knocked out, the MC was in the process of raping his wife and then moved on to his daughter and then after that killed him and sold the women into slavery. I can't remember the name of the book, but I stopped reading it at that point and never picked it back up.
DJay wrote: "Shamil wrote: "A solid supporting cast can differentiately make for a boring MC, I think maybe writers are making the mistake of confusing relatabllity with being painfully average. Or maybe they a..."Man, that is messed up. I have not read anything like that before and I don't plan on it! Book 7 of the Land Series: Predators had a description of a rape sequence that was hard to listen to, but that's about it
DJay wrote: "Shamil wrote: "A solid supporting cast can differentiately make for a boring MC, I think maybe writers are making the mistake of confusing relatabllity with being painfully average. Or maybe they a..."Jesus Christ thats dark 😦 the first book you mention is a dark fantasy so that doesn’t surprise me because some writers treat dark fantasy and sexual assult as a package deal.
But the unknown book your describing, here I was reading things like bushido online and not knowing this was out their. This writer must have been watching things like A Serbian Film to come up with this 😓.
Mary Sue or self insert MCs Long stretches of nothing happening.
MCs that actually make up reasons to go on an adventure... in an adventure book... how does that even make sense? They just sit there waiting for their letter to Hogwarts and then wait for the world /author to push them along. That's annoying and doesn't belong in an adventure book.
The MC is the exception to the rule OR the whole game world is built to cater to this one person. Because that's how games work.
Women are either girlfriends or daughters. Anything else is turned into jiggling boobs attached to a stick. *bounce bounce*
Blowjobs... what is it with Litrpg and blowjobs?
Hamda wrote: "Mary Sue or self insert MCs Long stretches of nothing happening.
MCs that actually make up reasons to go on an adventure... in an adventure book... how does that even make sense? They just sit ..."
1st do you draw a distinction between a MarySue/Gary Stu MC & a Overpowered Mc, if you do then do you also have a problem with an op protagonist. I can get behind an OP MC as it’s done well.
2nd I would also add the opposite where things move to fast is a problem for me cause it leaves me finally like I’m not being given enough leading to a less than satisfying experience 😑, but yes bad pacing sucks but if I had to choose say which is worse fast or slow pacing it’s defiantly slow pacing.
3rd To be fair their can be a good justification for the MC being super special awesome & can even make for an interesting story but I get that it can go back to that self insert MC problem where it’s feels like your reading someone’s bad wish fulfilment fan fiction.
4th Is it mainly the harm LitRPGs that you find to have problems with female characters or is it’s the a problem with the genre as whole
5th lastly with the blowjob thing I can’t explain that from a personal standpoint with out coming of like a pervert so I’m not going to try 😅, but wish fulfilment and this genre seem to go hand in hand .
Hamda wrote: "Mary Sue or self insert MCs Long stretches of nothing happening.
MCs that actually make up reasons to go on an adventure... in an adventure book... how does that even make sense? They just sit ..."
So as far as the Blowjobs issue is concerned, it does feel like most writers are male writing to a mainly male audience. All the female characters in these stories can't get enough of blowjobs and seemed mesmerized by the penis (which always has to be described as good sized and nothing to be ashamed of - no one ever comes out and says huge -which of course every woman wants). I have written reviews in the past when this happens where it seems like that part is the most unbelievable aspect of the story - despite it being about magic!
OP characters are actually fine with me. They are hard to pull off sometimes as it does remove the steaks in the matter but it comes down to how they're written. The fourth one is more obvious in harem themed books yes but I was talking about the genre in general. I Don't know what it is but females in the litrpg genre are treated like aliens. It's actually worse when the author tries to go for girl power because then they're one step away from being villains and are down right unlikable... except for their boobs. Always kept in focus for some reason.
But yeah, women in litrpg fall into "the perfect girlfriend that is omnipotent" or "Sick Daughter I must protect". Anything else is a sexy plank of wood.
Steven wrote: "Hamda wrote: "Mary Sue or self insert MCs Long stretches of nothing happening.
MCs that actually make up reasons to go on an adventure... in an adventure book... how does that even make sense? ..."
To be fair a lot of guys would describe blowjobs as magical 😌 so I thinks theirs more of connection their than your giving credit.
Hamda wrote: "OP characters are actually fine with me. They are hard to pull off sometimes as it does remove the steaks in the matter but it comes down to how they're written. The fourth one is more obvious in..."
The female characters feeling alien might stem from that fact for some guys woman/their perspective is partially or even fully alien to them (myself to a degree being an example of this ). Or maybe it’s just that the goal is not authenticity.
Thanks for the feedback though 👍
Shamil wrote: "A solid supporting cast can differentiately make for a boring MC, I think maybe writers are making the mistake of confusing relatabllity with being painfully average. Or maybe they are meant to be ..."I've found it to be way more prevalent in litrpg, than any of the standard fantasy/sci-fi books I read. I think maybe it's because litrpg is a fake world inside a fake world. the characters are less "real", perhaps, and so writers feel like they can take more liberties. I cringe every single time I read it, mostly because it's usually unnecessary to the plot. rape has become a trope in the genre.
There are plenty of books I've read where it was heartbreaking but not tropish, so I think it's possible to do it well. I mean, it's a thing that happens so I don't expect it to be excluded from literature. But this genre really runs with it too often, I think.
my main gripe is that characters (particularly female characters) always seem to be naive for the sake of the plot. I don't know if litrpg is just written by a bunch of men who have never met a woman or what, but I almost always end up rolling my eyes profusely at how the female characters are portrayed. to be fair, this isn't ONLY an issue in litrpg, but I find it to be much more prevalent in this genre.
Shamil wrote: "Hamda wrote: "OP characters are actually fine with me. They are hard to pull off sometimes as it does remove the steaks in the matter but it comes down to how they're written. The fourth one is m..."
I agree with the taking liberties point but for me I think it’s because the world/game is interesting and the main selling point of the genre that so characters (espicaly the MC) are secondary to a lot of authors, sort of how like a story driven plots can have weak Characters or character driven plots can be not all that complex. It really might come down to an issue priority or just interest or skill.
On the point about portyal of females it might be that a lot of authors might just be approaching it the same way a porn director does where they know the woman act unrealistic and so do (most of 😅) the audience viewing the product, unrealistic fantasy sells even to woman e.g fifty shades of grey but I can understand that form some it’s a turn off.
I don't like any of the problems mentioned by the original author, but at this point I will simply stop reading anything that hints of juvenile high school dreams (harem fantasy, chainmail bikini bimbos, etc). Even when the writing it otherwise compelling, it's just eye rollingly appalling. Cut it out, litrpg authors.
Shamil wrote: "Detailed world & system but uninteresting MC/Characters. Lack of states & or tension.
RPG elements being so sparse it might as well just be a regular book.
Coming of like a bad harem anime.
Portra..."
(My emphasis. Also, I think you mean "stakes", right?)
So, the heroine or hero wants to level up, but what's so important about it and how long do they have? Or they want to build an awesome town or empire, including subordinates, but what motivates the heroine or hero to do it?
Sometimes, it's just for the sake of leveling up or building a powerful base. That doesn't make the grade of telling an entertaining story and it's one of the pitfalls that is specific to this genre.
Warning signs:1) Overly powered MCs. Unless that’s part of the story. I read “Death March..”, etc. with that understanding, and it’s funny.
2) MCs that power-up too fast.
3) Harems with indistinguishable characters. If their only distinguishing characteristics are their hair color or boob size and I can’t remember their names, it’s boring.
4) TOO MANY SPREADSHEETS! I think this happens too often in LitRPG. While they’re easy to bypass (and I do), it can interrupt the flow of reading. It’s the reason why I still haven’t finished The Land 7.
Just my 2 cents.
Jumping in to the discussion late. I can read books with any of these flaws as long as they're well written and the characters are still sympathetic (unless the story just gets too dark). I do think the genre still has room to grow and I look forward to future additions. That being said, I am picky and a great many of the available offerings fail my criteria. Either they aren't well written enough to pull off whatever it is convincingly, or the characters (mc and/or side) are just too stupid/ arrogant/jerky/ naive/selfish/ shallow or antisocial. Stupid, shallow, and antisocial tend to be the kickers.
I'm female and I'm fine with wish fulfillment fantasy, but if that's all it is, I'm moving on to better books. I can read trashy romances for that.
Unintelligent or weak MC who don't know how to grind or assign stats. MC that are overly good, Or villian MC who White Knight mid book. and MC getting cucked
Queue wrote: "Warning signs:1) Overly powered MCs. Unless that’s part of the story. I read “Death March..”, etc. with that understanding, and it’s funny.
2) MCs that power-up too fast.
3) Harems with indist..."
Whith your 2nd point I defiantly agree good pacing for power progression is important but on the filp side I do think very slow power progression can be a problem but if it’s one book in a series than that can make its excusable or even ideal.
Your 3rd point I whole heartily agree with if i wanted generically sexy ladies their are to tons of sites on the internet for that, it’s not like I’m excepting game of thrones level of writing but we should hold the genre to a higher standard of writing than a B rate harem anime.
Lastly with your 4th point I actually find the opposite to more of a problem because some Soft-Litrpg novels are more like Minimal-Litrpg novels were the Litrp elements feel tacked on but you are right spreadsheet overkill can hurt more than it helps, I mainly listen to audiobooks so I don’t know if reading makes it more or less bearably.
Ellen wrote: "Jumping in to the discussion late. I can read books with any of these flaws as long as they're well written and the characters are still sympathetic (unless the story just gets too dark). I do thin..."I definitely relate with putting up with flaws I am actually probably to forgiving 😅 when it come to flaws but for me Characters are key so if I their well writing enough I can put up with a lot, even if those Characters aren’t sympathetic if I find them interesting enough it will keep me invested.
I do agrees that the genre has room to grow but in the same way that alot trashy romance novels are kinda an inevitability I would say that wishfulfillment fantasy that not very well written is the same way because thier seems to be a solid audience for them or people would not keep writing them, so quality is always going to be an issue but your right hopefully the overall quality on the gener improves over time.
Darius wrote: "Unintelligent or weak MC who don't know how to grind or assign stats. MC that are overly good, Or villian MC who White Knight mid book. and MC getting cucked"To be fair not everyone is good at video games or even a gamer so learning how to do something like properly assign stats could be a nice form of Character development.
Lastly I have not really run into the an MC getting “cucked” I might actually would fine that hilarious depending on how it’s done 😌, but in curious as to why you have an issue with this ?
Queue wrote: "Warning signs:1) Overly powered MCs. Unless that’s part of the story. I read “Death March..”, etc. with that understanding, and it’s funny.
2) MCs that power-up too fast.
3) Harems with indist..."
I love the spreadsheets, throw them out there often, I love them :)
Shamil wrote: "I am curious to see what problems keep popping up for people who are read LitRPGs or story with LitRPG elements."MC that have the power do the work and roll over for others to screw over. Lets be a tiny but legit if anyone had become powerful like that would you be disrespected like it seems a lot of the MC's are. It is somewhat annoying and so unrealistic.
I have problems with MC's being painfully dumb to make the plot work or allow for character development. I also have issues with random encounters and generic grinds taking too much time. I first noticed this in the land where a random encounter that didn't matter took several chapters instead of a couple of pages. Combat length should be proportional to story relevance.
Personally I like high powered MC's. They become OP when their adversaries aren't as powerful.
While a book about a LOSER MC who gets beat up by Level 1 Goblins can be fun and enjoyable, we're caught up in "escapism" and we don't want reality - we want fantasy !!While often times, we find inexperience authors writing some really good stories - there's always flaws, rough spots, and books the author poured their heart and sweat into.. and it just didn't pan out.
The Land was a good series though Matthew- I'd so read another one like that. Michael Chattfield's Emerilia - oh yeah. Gimme another one like that.
Dodge Tank is another good one - inexperienced author.. some rough spots.. Sometimes - these characters are OP because of the insurmountable issues they are facing. It's OP all the way for me.
