"Certain Dark Things" by Silvia Moreno-Garcia (BR)

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Really excited for this!! It's for the IBB Challenge, but you do not have to be participating in that to read along!

Please give us chapter/page so we can follow along and use spoiler tags as needed!

[Bobby]

I was able to get the e-book from my library, so I plan to start tonight! Really excited about Vampires from multiple cultures and backgrounds.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

My library hold came in a week ago. I’ll also be starting in the next couple days. Super excited for this one. It’s been a while since I read a good UF and I’m loving the idea of the Mexico City setting.

[Anna]

Hmm, maybe I should hop on this train before I start Changeling.

[Bobby]

I've only gotten two chapters in so far. Right now we've just got the typical world building and introduction of characters. It's been more than interesting enough to keep me wanting to read more. I've got a couple books going at the same time, so I might go pretty slow, but I'm enjoying it right now.

Spoilers up until the end of chapter 2. I really like (view spoiler)[ the mention of the different "breeds" of vampire, and how they all seem to have different powers and capabilities. I'm hoping to see a lot more of that later on in the book. (hide spoiler)]

[Anna]

I read chapter 1 yesterday, but decided to start Changeling first, since it grabbed me more. I think I'll be ready to continue this tomorrow. I know it's not traditional vampires, and I did second this book, but I'm just not very enthusiastic about bloodsuckers. I've heard good things, and I'm hoping I'l be positively surprised. Chapter 1 already has some non-traditional vampire vibes.

[Bobby]

So much for going slow. I'm now done with Chapter 11.

One thing I like about this book is that the world building is ongoing as we go through the plot. It's seemless so I don't feel like it's taking away from the story, but I get more information about the various vampires and their history.

[Gabi]

I'm so inclined to read this as my next, but the kindle edition is so expensive :( .

[Anna]

I also finished chapter 11 before going to sleep. I don't love urban fantasy or vampires, so I'm not loving this book either, but it is fun to be introduced to different kinds of vampires. I'm enjoying it for what it is, but it really isn't my usual fare. One of the POVs is getting on my nerves a bit, but I like the range of POVs in general.

[Bobby]

I'm now up to chapter 25. Getting some good action.

(view spoiler)[I honestly don't necessarily like any of the characters besides Domingo, but they are well written. Atl is not a good person, but she's the protagonist and I find myself rooting for her anyway, possibly because the other bad guys are worse than she is. I'm already seeing some character growth there, so I like that part of it. I actually like the way Rodrigo is written as well. Again, he's a bad dude, but I appreciate his POV in the story as the rational criminal opposite the wild card Nick (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

I’m up through chapter 5. I’m liking the vibe so far- definitely dark and gritty.

(view spoiler)[Domingo is growing on me. I like that he is sort of a non-traditional hero. Not over-the-top good looking. Not wealthy.

I was a little annoyed when Atl mentioned she was giving him enough cash to feed him for six months and he spent it all in two days. The bath I understand- but the clothes and the watch?! What does a street kid need designer jeans for? And why did he feel the need to buy her a watch when she’s clearly doing just fine?!

Curious to find out more about Atl and why she’s being chased. (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Picking this up today! I might dump another book I'm reading and jump right in.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Bobby wrote: "I've only gotten two chapters in so far. Right now we've just got the typical world building and introduction of characters. It's been more than interesting enough to keep me wanting to read more. ..."

Bobby, I like that, too! (through ch 4)(view spoiler)[ Although minor quibble, it seems weird that people who see themselves as people would call themselves a breed rather than a race or ethnicity or something. I'm picturing a shelter for lost vampires that humans can adopt.

I like the writing a lot, and the different POVs. They seem well thought out. I like that Atl isn't super competent and experienced, that's a cool twist for me. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Allison wrote: "Bobby wrote: "I've only gotten two chapters in so far. Right now we've just got the typical world building and introduction of characters. It's been more than interesting enough to keep me wanting ..."

lolol

[Bobby]

I actually finished a couple days ago but forgot to post here. Overall I really liked it, and gave it 4 stars.

There were a couple things that were a bit off to me, but nothing too bad. The following Spoilers will be for the entire book, but mostly the ending.

(view spoiler)[ The ending seemed a bit rushed to me. I did read the last 15 or so chapters non-stop in one sitting, so it could have been that. There were just a few things that seemed abrupt, like Ana getting turned into a Necros slave and putting up zero struggle. The fight at the landfill kind of happened out of nowhere too. One moment they are talking and the next there are bullets flying.

There were also some actions the characters took that were a departure from who they were in the rest of the story. The biggest two were at the end. Atl hears her dog was shot, shows almost no emotion, and just keeps on walking to the car like nothing happened. That dog was supposed to be the only family she had left, and the last link to her sister. She didn't even seem to care. I'm guessing the author is not a dog person. The other was Domingo meekly letting her drive away when he's been so persistent throughout the whole book. Not only are they linked by blood, but he finds her dog who she thought was dead. Of course Domingo is going to go after her, but apparently not.

Now here's what I did love about the book. Of course I liked the different types of vampires and how different and well thought out they were. I thought the history was really cool, especially the Aztec bits. I liked the setting a lot too, and that most of the characters were not only good guys or only bad guys. Ana was probably my favorite. She is mostly a good person who is just in a situation where she doesn't have much choice. She chooses to be corrupt, but the whole system is so corrupt that working with a gang to take down vampires is better than letting murders go unsolved. (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

An incomplete list of the things that Atl didn't properly explain in chapter 8:

(view spoiler)[

-That she's not allergic to sunlight it just makes her very sleepy
-That bad men are chasing her
-That he shouldn't come right back to the apartment, he should meet her after sundown someplace else
-That Bernardino is dangerous (also, if Bernardino's a bigtime fixer, wouldn't Domingo maybe have heard of him by reputation?)
-That he shouldn't do anything too strenuous since she just took ALL HIS BLOOD
-What it means to be bound to her this way in terms of his new responsibilities and life expectancy
-That he should proooobably be wearing some turquoise.

I know, I'm a bit curmudgeonly, but this is an excellent way to get caught and it feels like even a young vampire would feel pretty pressed about how easy it is to get her killed during the day.

Also, this keeps bothering me. If you take an iron pill with OJ? You're going to puke. Iron plus acid = vinegar volcano in your belly. You need to wait like 4 hours between the two.

That said, I'm still interested in what happens, I just don't like plot holes based on refusal to communicate. Or vomiting. (hide spoiler)]

[Ariana]

Allison wrote: "(view spoiler)[That said, I'm still interested in what happens, I just don't like plot holes based on refusal to communicate. (hide spoiler)]
"
Totally in agreement!

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Allison wrote: "An incomplete list of the things that Atl didn't properly explain in chapter 8:"

Seconding/thirding! That annoyed me too.

Something else has been bothering me, I’m also on chapter 8:

(view spoiler)[The way the info dumps are delivered as part of the characters internal thoughts. I think it was Nick who was going on and on about the Necros.. and I just kept thinking to myself: nobody thinks about themselves this way! I think she put a lot of thought into fleshing out the different “species” but I don’t think a vampire who already knows about this would lay it all out like that. (hide spoiler)]

[Ariana]

Hi folks, I'm through Ch. 23 and I just wanted to ask for a quick possible content warning if anyone's finished already. (view spoiler)[Does anything happen to the dog? I'd rather be spoiled than surprised. (hide spoiler)]

[Bobby]

Ariana I'll answer your question. I'll try to be vague but give you what you're asking for. Spoiler for the end of the book ahead (view spoiler)[Something happens to him but he lives. It isn't graphic or really even described much at all, so it should be okay now that you know the outcome. Let me know if you need more detail (hide spoiler)]

[Ariana]

Bobby wrote: "Ariana I'll answer your question. I'll try to be vague but give you what you're asking for. Spoiler for the end of the book ahead [spoilers removed]"

Thank you!!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Finished Chapter 26

(view spoiler)[ I agree with you, Bobby, the only character that has my real attention is Domingo. Atl is being a total asshat, though I agree she seems to be working some stuff out, which is good. Rodrigo is interesting to me. I find Nick to be a little cliched. He's so idiotic, crass, and evil that I can't even really hate him like a Joffrey, because I'm spending some of my energy looking at the hand that wrote him.

I am liking that we get to see the different "breed" powers, and that the flashbacks to Atl's trauma are getting more detailed.

I'm also enjoying the writing style. I think the author has strong prose. I just wish she'd had a better soundboard during her outlining. (hide spoiler)]

[Ariana]

I finished this last night. I liked it quite a bit! It was very engaging and well plotted.

(view spoiler)[Like others I really enjoyed all the different kinds of vampires; I thought it was very creative and clever to mix in totally novel types with the standard Dracula/Nosferatu types that we're so familiar with.

I have to say I was a little disappointed with the ending. I'm not sure exactly why, but it just left me feeling a little unsatisfied, like, that was a fun story, but what was the point exactly? Not that every story needs to have deep themes, just... I'm not sure. Partly I think it was having Ana go from being this competent diligent investigator and vampire hunter to being controlled and then killed. It made it feel like she was just a plot device all along to keep the story moving and then there was no more use for her.

I also felt like you knew Rodrigo was going to get offed in the showdown because of the bit about him procuring the prostitute/snack for Nick. He'd been fairly relatable up to that point, so we needed a reality check about what it must really mean to have been a fixer for a vampire gang for decades (not something for anyone with a conscience).

I would have liked to get a little more detail about the code of honor and duty among vampires that was often alluded to (like how Godoy broke the code, so Atl did too, and why the favor Atl's mother did for Bernardino compelled him to take care of her when everything else pointed to him being only about himself and his own survival).

But overall I thought this was a lot of fun.
(hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Finished! Warning, it's a bit harsh, my thoughts. I get grouchy when I get kicked out of my suspension of disbelief. I was so happy to believe it!

(view spoiler)[ I agree with the reservations you both have, Bobby and Ariana. I actually didn't like the plot at all of this story, or rather, felt that it was never really explored. If it was explained, I totally missed why Atl needed to go to Mexico City to get out of Mexico instead of her extended family further away? Why didn't anyone talk to each other? Why did Bernardino agree to help? I really felt the whole Ana plot line was just a device. A single reference to a genetically modified Doberman in a city where we know designer dogs are a big deal for the elite brought all this together for her? I don't buy it. Everything after that felt contrived.

I loved all the vampire types but I also thought they weren't super thought out. I get a background vibe of "it's magic, just roll with it" to a lot of the vampire explanations, but she was the one who exposed the contradictions in the first place! I was totally in, feet first on the vampire thing, until you made it obvious this wasn't possible.

And yeah, leaving Cuahlli to die seemed really out of character.

I thought overall it was a great mythology that seemed to be a few scenes that the author saw clearly in her head and couldn't wait to write linked up with a bunch of excuses to write those scenes. It worked because Domingo was adorable and her prose is solid, but if it had been a less-experienced author this wouldn't have been something I could have finished, I don't think. (hide spoiler)]

[Bobby]

Allison wrote: "Finished! Warning, it's a bit harsh, my thoughts. I get grouchy when I get kicked out of my suspension of disbelief. I was so happy to believe it!"

(view spoiler)[I believe it says somewhere in the book that Atl went to Mexico City because that's where Bernadino and the lady who gave them papers (forgot her name) were located, and they were the only contacts she had left.

I agree the plot was a bit weak. Overall the book was not quite what I was hoping for but it still had a lot of the things I wanted when I read the blurb. If she ever decided to do a sequel, I would read it in the hopes that we get more variety of vampires...and Domingo comes back a little less naive. (hide spoiler)]

[Ariana]

Bobby wrote: "I agree the plot was a bit weak."

Ha! Bobby and Allison, I didn't have a ton of issues with the plot, but the more I think about it the more I'm tending to agree with you both. I'm coming off of Trail of Lightning, which I liked a lot of things about, but I felt like had plot holes the size of Nebraska. By comparison, Certain Dark Things felt positively seamless.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Amanda I'm so glad you could join!!

I agree wholeheartedly with your assessments. I haven't read Signal to Noise yet, but I think the prose is so strong in this book that it's now more prominent on my list.

[Ariana]

Amanda wrote: "...lack of communication is definitely my least favorite way of creating conflict in books."

With you on this! Second only to MY least favorite conflict mechanism: characters making completely unmotivated terrible decisions.

I really liked the descriptions of Mexico City, the different neighborhoods and the weather, etc. I thought the sense of place was great.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Ariana wrote: "Bobby wrote: "I agree the plot was a bit weak."

Ha! Bobby and Allison, I didn't have a ton of issues with the plot, but the more I think about it the more I'm tending to agree with you both. I'm c..."

Spoiler tag is for end of book!


lol, I can definitely see that. Yeah, Moreno-Garcia is a wonderful writer, there's no doubt. This didn't have any of the "first book" feel that Trail of Lightning did for me. I just think this was rushed, or the product of uneven interest levels for her. I could almost see her going "omg, please let this part end, I wanna write about (view spoiler)[ Atl and Domingo becoming a couple. (hide spoiler)]"

I'm hoping Roanhorse gets more confident in her own voice, as she clearly has a great world. And I'd bet that Moreno-Garcia is better in something she felt more passionate about and/or didn't have a publisher yelling at her to finish quickly.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Finished this today. I didn’t love it- then that ending... sheesh. If Allison’s review is harsh mine is just plain mean.

(view spoiler)[First of all- plot holes left and right. I think it was Chapter 14 where Domingo and Atl go to see Elisa the first time. 1.) Atl definitely refers to her as Veronica when they are walking out the door (probably a printing error but a very obvious one). 2.) she tells Elisa, “my mother called you friend.” Well if she was friends with your mother what did you need to see Bernardino for? If you already knew all about her? If she could do what Veronica did why did you need Veronica in the first place? If Bernardino is the one who ultimately had the connections to get them out, why did he bother referring them to Elisa in the first place? Really that whole mess was a royal wtf moment for me.

Ana being turned into a slave in all of two minutes. *Shrugs* So much for the bad ass detective with vampire street smarts.

The ending. <—- I mean, do I need to say more? Sometimes the unhappy ending fits but it didn’t feel right here to me. I have to wonder if there is a sequel planned. Because of course- the set up for that is: Domingo lurvs Atl and has to be with her so begins his quest.

The constant referrals to Dracula and all the other Hollywood vampires drove me insane. Beat that dead horse one more time Domingo.

Rodrigo and Nick and Ana. We needed one opinion of those three. If the point of their POV was to show how “bad” the baddies were, less is more. Let Ana find the bodies. Let the reader wonder just how bad these other vampires really are. I didn’t need Nick’s incredibly cartoonish thoughts.

The good stuff: loved the different vampire types! I liked the glossary at the end that outlines where the different vampires camedrom and their attributes, and to her credit, they all felt unique. I almost wish she’d go Buffy with it and have someone hunting down all these vampires. Would have loved to see those psychic Chinese arthritic vamps in action.

Mexico City- loved the feel of the setting. Jackal with his network of Street kids was pretty cool. Domingo with his knowledge of the underground. Where to get guns, hide, etc. I thought she did a great job with those. (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Yeah, there were a lot of consistency errors, including that one you mention.

Re the rest:

(view spoiler)[ Veronica is Elisa. Veronica was how her mother knew her but she changed names and somehow Bernardino knew her well enough to keep tabs on her name changes. Why and how, I'm not entirely sure, but that was the confusion, I think. Atl needed to find Veronica, who is now Elisa but to do so she had to rely on a vampire we keep being told is dangerous and mean but has been very grandfatherly the whole time. Hard for me to figure how to feel about that, because I liked the vampfather vibe, but it also made what we'd been told inconsistent which makes me grouchy.

It was one of the things that I mentioned being one of the scenes that it was clear to me that the author didn't want to write or was stumped by. It was all very formula. Try three times, succeed on the third, write through how frustrating it would be if you were thrown into this with no info, hope it makes sense in the end.

It kiiind of made sense. But it added very little to the story and ended up being quite wooden, IMO. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Allison wrote: "Yeah, there were a lot of consistency errors, including that one you mention.

Re the rest"

Were we supposed to infer that from somewhere? That’s almost more annoying to me.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Sarah wrote: "Allison wrote: "Yeah, there were a lot of consistency errors, including that one you mention.

Re the rest"

Were we supposed to infer that from somewhere? That’s almost more annoying to me."

I guess so? Now that I'm reviewing it, it does seem like I made this connection without it being expressly said. Bernardino mentions it right before Domingo leaves. (view spoiler)[ "I can't give you exact coordinates, but I can give you a name. Elisa Carrerra" (hide spoiler)]

I don't remember if they say more on it to clarify.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Ahh- okay I found it: pg 98: (view spoiler)[

““Verónica Montealban was a translator.”

The monitor flickered, cheap thing that it was. Atl gave it a whack with the palm of her hand and the image steadied itself.

“You think she changed her name?””

(hide spoiler)]

Note to self: read more carefully. Oh well. It probably would have assisted with my frustration but I don’t know that it changes my opinion all that much.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Yeah, if not this scene, there were others that I felt the same way about, and I read them a couple times to be sure!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Amanda, totally agree!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

I think that's totally valid, Amanda! I still liked this book, despite my criticism. I just had a lot of issues with it lol.

I agree with all your questions, too. There's a lot more unanswered than answered.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

Amanda wrote: "I think everyone else has probably finished this by now. I ended up getting distracted by other books and only reading a little bit a day, so I just finished chapter 30.

I kind of wish Moreno-Garc..."

Agreeing- you have lots of valid points. I’ve read quite a few vampire novels myself- and I think that was what held me back.

I’ll give her credit for the world building and unique feel (because this didn’t feel like any of those other novels and it’s probably hard to do that with so much vampire fiction out there). I think if she had had a better editor to point out where things were unclear and tighten up the plot a bit I would have liked it more.

[Kristin B.]

OK. I am SO FAR behind on my reading, but I have finally gotten a bit into this. I haven't read any other comments yet because I like to wait until I am done with the book, so I will come back and do that.

However, I just hit a line on page 95 that completely threw me out of the story. The author used the word "kinda" but not as part of dialogue. I don't mind if dialogue has slang words, because that's how people talk. I find it super cringey when it's just in the story itself.

Ok. Enough nit-picking. Back to reading so I can come back and check out everyone else's thoughts!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

I hope you have an easier time of it going forward! Can't wait to hear what else you think :)

[Kristin B.]

I finally finished and I'm not a fan. I agree with everyone else's assessments of the weak points and the strong points weren't enough to make up for them. The different vamps were cool, but other than the three featured, it seems like she just spent a half hour or so thinking "what would be cool in a vampire" and dashed off some notes.

During the entire story I just kept remembering bad fanfic I had read. That's exactly what this felt like. I mean in chapter 34 (view spoiler)[we even get wingfic. Classic fanfic trope. (hide spoiler)]

It actually took me so long to read because I kept putting it down to go read fanfic that was more cohesive.

I'm glad I read it because I am trying really hard to read all the IBB reads. But I am glad it's over so I can move on to something else. From January through July I read 50 books. But since the beginning of August I have been stuck on this and The Gray House. (Still not finished with that one. Needed to take a break.)

Now to go frantically try to catch up on all the other books I am so far behind on!

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Totally fair, Kristin! I'm glad you put it to rest though. Upwards and onwards!