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Ulysses by James Joyce Readalong & Re-Readalongs (2014, 2016); Audio Listen-Along (2017)
Geoffrey wrote: "......the mirroring between the two allows us to see Bloom as someone who, on the inside may be closer to the heroic ideal than he is on the outside..."I like how you put that, Geoffrey. Bloom struggles inwardly in many ways but I think he may be an heroic ideal in many ways.
Geoffrey wrote: "it would be nice to centralize in one place all the interesting side links that both discussions have proposed ..."I'm not sure which links you mean, Geoffrey. We've had a lot of links here. Do you have something specific in mind?
Terri, I'm glad that you enjoyed this episode. We all have our favorites for various reasons. My favorite is coming up but I have to admit that each reading gives me more episodes to count as favorites. Sirens is such a one. I got a lot more out of the reading this time than earlier readings. I got lost in tracing the phrases from the first couple of pages in the rest of the episode. Joyce didn't even make that an easy task. :D
Pink, no need to rush the reading. We've got time. Rushing Joyce takes away from the fun of the read. I hope you're enjoying it.
Episode 12 (Cyclops):This is a long episode. We've decided to read this episode over 2 weeks.
In Week 1 (roughly Mar 19-25), we're concentrating on the first half of the episode; from the beginning to "The proceedings then terminated".
In The Odyssey Cyclops had one eye. Joyce's main point in this episode is to satirize those people who, like the cyclops, see things (think about things) with only one eye — that is, those people who operate with a limited vision of the world, those who are partially, or wholly, intellectually "blind."
- from Cliffnotes.com
Petra wrote: "Episode 12 (Cyclops):This is a long episode. We've decided to read this episode over 2 weeks.
In Week 1 (roughly Mar 19-25), we're concentrating on the first half of the episode; from the beginn..."
It is going to be interesting how much we are going to see Stephen in this chapter, because of the broken glasses. I would not have known this fact had you not discussed this here in our group. Thank you for being our guides.
I thought I'd got off to a fairly good start in the Cyclops episode. But now I am a few pages in, and I've realised that actually I haven't got much idea what's going on at all! I've decided it's time to look at some of the backup material before I return to the episode.
Gill wrote: "I thought I'd got off to a fairly good start in the Cyclops episode. But now I am a few pages in, and I've realised that actually I haven't got much idea what's going on at all! I've decided it's t..."I ak glad you said this. I was listening to it last night and this morning i felt the same way. I did listen to Joseph Campbell talk about this (youtube) he pointed out the first paragraph where the man almost gets his eye poked out. I would have missed that had he not mentioned it.
Ooof!! That's rough! Good thing we're only reading half the episode this week. Maybe that will help?
I haven't started yet. Thought I'd do that on Friday, over a cup of coffee.
Petra wrote: "Ooof!! That's rough! Good thing we're only reading half the episode this week. Maybe that will help?
I haven't started yet. Thought I'd do that on Friday, over a cup of coffee."
I'll join you in the cup of coffee, as well as the reading session!
I just read this synopsis of Ulysses:http://modernism.research.yale.edu/wi...
Petra or Gill gave us a link for the 'Sirens' and I just wanted to see if they had anything to say about the 'Cyclops'.
They didn't but the overview of the book was good to read right now. It might be easy to lose your way in this cave.
I've been having a look at Cliffsnotes for Cyclops. Here are a few quotes from the notes that I found useful:'In "The Cyclops," Joyce also intersperses the limited actions of the chapter with over 30 interpolations that satirize various forms of pretentiousness: literary style, national aspirations, sports reporting, mincing gestures among the upper classes, and so forth. The Citizen (unnamed throughout the chapter) is described (in one of Joyce's well-known "catalogues") as a sort of prehistoric Irish warrior and, in addition, he is adorned with the trappings and tribal images of such historical personages as Captain Nemo, Goliath, Dante Alighieri, the Queen of Sheba, Lady Godiva, and so forth.'
'Bloom enters the pub, as we might expect, at the wrong time, and the rest of the episode is structured upon one essential contrast: the violence of the pub participants set against the temperate attitude of Bloom, an attitude which is starkly out of place in this dark, cyclopian cavern. Bloom's entrance establishes him here again as a Christ-like figure, and, through Joyce's careful choice of details, this sequence foreshadows Bloom's role at the end of the chapter as a kind of modern Elijah, a prophet unappreciated by his "people."'
'But Bloom is not wholly a simple Christ figure, or even a mere hero figure; here, he is also a know-it-all, "Mister Knowall," and there is a slight justification in the annoyance of the drunken patrons at his lengthy explanations and tedious moralising.'
'Yet, it is here, in "The Cyclops," that Joyce exhibits the true heroism of Bloom; for a few brief moments, the put-upon comic hero, having had enough, fights back by asserting his Jewishness. He begins to become irritated when the Citizen, in response to Bloom's insistence that Ireland is his nation, spits an oyster into a corner. Bloom becomes angry for the first time in Ulysses: "And I belong to a race too . . . that is hated and persecuted. Also now. This very moment. This very instant."
What I remember liking about Cyclops is Bloom asserting himself at the end. It was as if he's finally gaining some confidence and recognition of his own worth.(that's all I remember of this episode, though, so the reading will be like a first read)
Didn't want you to miss this name in the list:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valen...
Maybe these are the skeletons in the cave.
I'm a chapter behind again, I restarted Sirens today and read through it all in one go. I absolutely loved it, my favourite chapter since Proteus, simply for the amazing beauty of language. Very clever as it was like reading music, but still with some plot and character studies. I'm unsure what I think of Bloom, sometimes I feel sorry for him, but then he seems like such a letch and I find myself losing sympathy.
I'm glad that you liked Sirens so much, Pink.. I thought it was a lovely chapter as well. There is no real hurry with the next chapter because we have two weeks to read it, don't we?
I really like this comment about Bloom, sorry, I've lost track of who it was that said it! http://amzn.to/1pLKJVc
Oh! I hadn't realised it was going to be a link rather than the actual quote. Never mind!
Another example is where it says
'And then he starts with his jawbreakers about phenomenon and science and this phenomena and the other phenomenon.'
At times, Bloom reminds me of the sort of person, usually a man!, who you try to avoid at a party, because he wants to give you a blow by blow account of all the roads and their numbers you need to go down, to the place you're going the next day. I.e. Bloom has a great potential to be boring, I think!
I'm glad that the notes to the edition I'm reading, gave details about all the different parodies that occur in the Cyclops episode episode. One parody that I got myself was the one that was about the reports of Parliamentary proceedings. Very little has changed in the last hundred years!
"There sleep the mighty dead as in life they sleep"Alludes to:
St. Michael's crypt
http://www.chooseireland.com/dublin/s...
Blacksmith, in the list with Goliath...
Probably refers to
http://www.bartleby.com/270/2/79.html
Captain Moonlight of Ireland:
http://archive.thetablet.co.uk/articl...
"The woman who didn't"
A variation on.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_W...
The Woman Who Did
Paracelsus
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parac...
Paracelsus (/ˌpærəˈsɛlsəs/; late 1493 – September 24, 1541), born Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim, was a Swiss German[5] philosopher, physician, botanist, astrologer, and general occultist.[6] He is credited as the founder of toxicology.[7] He is also a famous revolutionary for utilizing observations of nature, rather than referring to ancient texts, something of radical defiance during his time.[7] He is credited for giving zinc its name, calling it zincum.[8][9] Modern psychology often also credits him for being the first to note that some diseases are rooted in psychological conditions.[10]
Paracelsus' most important legacy is likely his critique of the scholastic methods in medicine, science and theology. Much of his theoretical work does not withstand modern scientific thought, but his insights laid the foundation for a more dynamic approach in the medical sciences
Sir Thomas Lipton
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoma...
Famous for Lipton tea
The Bride of Lammermoor
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_B...
Peter the Hermit
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter...
Peter the packer
http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/cocl...
1879 also, the Land League was formed. As unrest increased, landlords and their agents were attacked and shot but prosecutions were rare as witnesses, jurors and judges were intimidated and threatened. Clare was considered an ideal venue for anyone charged with agrarian offences as acquittals were commonplace.
It was during this time that Peter earned the nickname of "Peter the Packer". He was the first to succeed in getting convictions because of his ability to select juries free from what he called "prejudiced persons". Henceforth, he was known as "Peter the Packer".
Tristan and isolde
http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Tr-Wa...
Richard Boss Corker
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richa...
(November 24, 1843 – April 29, 1922), known as "Boss Croker" was an Irish-American politician, a leader of New York City's Tammany Hall.[1]
Allesandro Volta
http://www.famousscientists.org/aless...
Gill wrote: "Some more thought on Cyclops episode:http://www.michaelgroden.com/notes/qs..."
Thank you!
Gill wrote: "I really like this comment about Bloom, sorry, I've lost track of who it was that said it! http://amzn.to/1pLKJVc
Oh! I hadn't realised it was going to be a link rather than the actual quote. N..."
Glad it went to the link. I didn't know I could buy the kindle Oxford version of Ulysses for less than 2.00. That made my day!
Cosmic wrote: "Gill wrote: "I really like this comment about Bloom, sorry, I've lost track of who it was that said it! http://amzn.to/1pLKJVc
Oh! I hadn't realised it was going to be a link rather than the ac..."
Yes, it's a good price isn't it, Cosmic? The only issue I found is it doesn't have episode headings. But I cross referenced to another edition for this.
That's the edition I'm reading in paperback, I think it's very comprehensive, with a map and extensive notes, although my copy already looks battered! I'd definitely recommend this version to everyone, but like Gill says it doesn't include chapter titles throughout the book, although they're referred to in the notes.
I think most copies of Ulysses don't have the episode headings because the original didn't. My copy doesn't have them either.I really like the cover of that copy.
Gill wrote: "Cosmic wrote: "Gill wrote: "I really like this comment about Bloom, sorry, I've lost track of who it was that said it! http://amzn.to/1pLKJVc
Oh! I hadn't realised it was going to be a link rat..."
Yeah that is was I am doing too.
I'm just starting this section today. Am a bit behind because of yard work this weekend; it's not raining and I've got time off of work, so it has to be done. (I'd rather be reading than tearing a lawn up)I'm rather struck (in a positive way) with the passage that starts with "In Inisfail the fair there lies a land" and ends with ".....the noble district of Boyle, princes, the sons of kings". This passage is on the second page of the episode in my book.
In a relatively short paragraph, Joyce manages to say a lot about a district of Dublin and make it seem so peaceful, lovely and in some ways, country-like; not like a city neighbourhood at all.
Some details that I found interesting:
- "There sleep the mighty dead as in life they slept" - according to the notes in my book, this refers to the dead in the vaults of St. Michan's church. The air is so dry that the bodies are quite preserved.
- There's a lovely description of all the trees in the area, giving it a park-like or country-like feeling within the city: "mild breeze", "lofty trees wave in different directions their first class foliage" (love that description)
- The girls of the district are described as so lovely that blokes come from miles around to woo them: "lovely maidens sit in close proximity to the roots of the lovely trees"......"heroes voyage from afar to woo them"
- Also, the picture of leisure is strong, what with the maidens sitting around singing and playing. Combined with the breeze, trees, river, etc., it gives the impression of a happy, healthy and strong community.
- There's a lot of mention of waters and fish. I suppose the waters may indicate that the district is beside the river (I should look this up on a map) but I'm not sure why so much mention of fish is made.
So, in a fairly short paragraph, Joyce has given me a wonderful feel for a district that I have never been to. It's really a lot of information included in relatively few words.
Genius!
Petra wrote: "I'm just starting this section today. Am a bit behind because of yard work this weekend; it's not raining and I've got time off of work, so it has to be done. (I'd rather be reading than tearing a ..."I included some link to the crypt in message 1221
Thqnks for mentioning the trees and the girls singing beside the trees. Saw that while reading but just at a glance and kept on going. It reminds me of the sirens singing.
I found this useful for the Cyclops episode, especially because it includes details of each of the parodies that occurs in the episode:http://www.shmoop.com/ulysses-joyce/e...
Cosmic wrote: "I included some link to the crypt in message 1221..."That link is really interesting, Cosmic. The mummies are incredible. Thanks for posting that and sorry that I didn't look before. I'm so behind that I didn't look at the posts yet.
The article states that many Dubliners don't know that St. Michad's has mummies in the vaults.....yet Joyce knew. He must have been the most curious minded of people; always seeing the details, always interested and always remembering.
Gill, thanks for the link. I'll be checking it when I start getting into this episode more.
Hey.....so, the passage I like is a parody? Well, how about that???!!!.....and the second parody, at that! Oh dear.........
Joyce has made me curious about the Irish famine. I decided to look it up and found a teachers supplement about it. You might find it helpful:http://www.eirefirst.com/archive/unit...
Thanks for posting that link Gill, I'd like to say it's made things clearer but there's so much going on in this chapter. Yet another style, I think I'd have missed most of those sections as parodies, without the notes to explain. I'm not finished yet, but I'm beginning to feel sorry for Bloom again.
Glad the link was useful, Petra and Pink. I wish I'd found it before I started the episode! There are so many of the parody styles that I missed. Still it's interesting reading about them all. Joyce seems to have no end to what he tries to do.
I was just thinking that Gill, he uses every literary style available, in fact if it's not in Ulysses it probably doesn't exist.
There was a lot in this section about Cromwell and Africa. I want familiar with this part of history. Here is something that i think may shed some light on that area:http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.a...
(If you have a kindle you can do a word search for 'Cromwell' and the first one in the book is this section we are reading.)
Gill wrote: "I found this useful for the Cyclops episode, especially because it includes details of each of the parodies that occurs in the episode:http://www.shmoop.com/ulysses-joyce/e......"
After reading the chapter, even though there were many passages I liked, I was still confused about what I had read. This site gave me a clear road map for understanding the whole thing. Wonderful, and thanks!
Cosmic wrote: "Joyce has made me curious about the Irish famine. I decided to look it up and found a teachers supplement about it. You might find it helpful:http://www.eirefirst.com/archive/unit..."
Thanks, Cosmic. I found this very interesting. What a terrible time for the ordinary people.
Cosmic, I agree that was a fascinating read. I knew that Cromwell was hated in Ireland and still stirs up intense feelings over what happened to the Catholics. Although in Protestant areas I think he's still lauded as a hero. I hadn't read about Irish people being shipped off to the West Indies and used for servants or slaves. It makes for very sad reading of course. When I think of Irish people emigrating to the Americas, it's to escape religious persecution or to start a new life, but relatively of their own choice to go. I don't think I've read about their use in slavery before, although perhaps this is more well known to others.
Cosmic wrote: "There was a lot in this section about Cromwell and Africa. I want familiar with this part of history. Here is something that i think may shed some light on that area:http://freepages.genealogy.ro..."
This history of Irish slaves came up among friends on Facebook recently (about a month ago). Here is the link that circulated :
https://peoplestrusttoronto.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/irish-the-forgotten-white-slaves/
Geoffrey wrote: "Cosmic wrote: "There was a lot in this section about Cromwell and Africa. I want familiar with this part of history. Here is something that i think may shed some light on that area:http://freepag..."
Geoffrey, I can't get the link to work. Can you check it? Thanks
Petra wrote: "I think most copies of Ulysses don't have the episode headings because the original didn't. My copy doesn't have them either.I really like the cover of that copy."
A writer's point of view : I have no idea if Joyce had anything like this experience while writing Ulysses. I am writing a massive text (also partly based on The Odyssey among other texts) and I use chapter headings during the writing because it helps me keep track of where bits of text are - to know that the text is in Sirens is much easier to track than to know it is in the 11th chapter, or whatever. However, when the book goes to publication, sometimes you don't want the chapter headings (I know I'm of two minds about this for my book), as they induce a reading you may want to leave more open. So I suspect that Joyce was also of "two minds" and that is why some texts have the headings and some do not...
So, regarding the Cyclops chapter, I was struck throughout my reading that this really is a version of the Cyclops episode as recounted in The Odyssey - it has the same kind of sinister, all encompassing, perversive feeling you get when you read Homer. So I started hunting around on the web to find a bit more about whether I was the only one who felt this way (one of the things I've discovered about Ulysses is that you often feel you are alone only to discover that your experience is actually quite common among readers of the book!).First of all, the Cliff Notes for this chapter comments on : "Joyce structures "The Cyclops" by inculcating an ever-deepening sense of darkness, hatred, and violence..." confirming my own feeling. It is a text that aims at both portraying violence in its diverse and insidious forms and a protest against such violence.
I also came across this interesting text taken from the abstract of a scholarly article about the Cyclops chapter by a person called Leah Culligan Flack, which casts some light on why the text is structured the way it is :
"This essay examines how and why Joyce's long history with censors shaped the themes, style, and eventual form of "Cyclops" at a critical turning point in the composition of Ulysses. It uses genetic materials to track the ways that "Cyclops" reanimates old conflicts with censors, starting with Joyce's 1906 struggle against what he called the "one-eyed printer" who blocked the publication of Dubliners. Written during a period of intensive censorship, "Cyclops," this article argues, goes on the attack against its potential censors in a variety of ingenious ways. Its subversive language ultimately raises questions about the nature of obscenity and suggests that violence is obscene. The episode's challenge to censors aligns with its aggressive representation of a variety of Irish and international audiences. Designating any of these as "that monster audience," "Cyclops" scrutinizes the interpretive habits and collective logic of groups that sentimentalize and revel in executions, lynchings, and other violent spectacles. By provoking its censors and challenging its bloodthirsty audiences, "Cyclops" attempts to clear a cultural space for Ulysses and its cosmopolitan hero."
So the chapter is designed to highlight "monstrosity" in many different ways, including, as is usual with Joyce, a self-referential way in relation to his own writing!
Gill, your link was helpful to me as well. I've read Cyclops twice now, and done a little research through various links, and I feel pretty good about where I'm at with the reading. I'm becoming more accepting when I don't understand things the first time around. I was struck again by the anti-Semitism in this section, and I'm feeling very sorry for Bloom at this point. I like the humor in this episode, too (the French "were never worth a roasted fart to Ireland").
I also noticed, and it's reinforced by my research on the web, that Bloom's actions "underwhelm". So faced with the pervasive sense of gloom and doom of the other pub denizens, Bloom, although he does get angry and makes a few comments that are provocative, they are as per usual presented as mild statements that barely register, unless one is attuned to Bloom and everything he says and does. He is a hero, but he is a modern hero in that he is beset upon by all sides and yet is unable to do more than make a few pointed statements. No fisticuffs, no shouts (or not much), not even any vitriol on his part. Joyce, on the other hand, is a different story. He uses all his subtle and amazing craft to write a devastating protest against anti-semitism and bullying.
There is something i am not clear on. Bloom wants to see Cunningham on an issue about Dignams will/ insurance. Can someone explain what the issue was about?
Geoffrey wrote: "I also noticed, and it's reinforced by my research on the web, that Bloom's actions "underwhelm". So faced with the pervasive sense of gloom and doom of the other pub denizens, Bloom, although he d..."My take on this is that Bloom is acting 'wise as a snake and harmless as a dove'...or as the hero Ulysses was known for, he was 'cunning'. Not a good idea to start swinging fist. Amazed that he stuck around as long as he did.
Cosmic wrote: "Geoffrey wrote: "I also noticed, and it's reinforced by my research on the web, that Bloom's actions "underwhelm". So faced with the pervasive sense of gloom and doom of the other pub denizens, Blo..."I like this interpretation, but I also don't think I'm wrong. Bloom is not a violent man, he'd have to be in dire straights to take a swing at someone.
Geoffrey wrote: "Cosmic wrote: "Geoffrey wrote: "I also noticed, and it's reinforced by my research on the web, that Bloom's actions "underwhelm". So faced with the pervasive sense of gloom and doom of the other pu..."I agree. But I was trying to make the parallel to Homer's Illiad/ Odyssey. The character Ulysses (Odysseus) was not rewarded for how many men he killed but how cunning he was. Cunning was more highly favored over valor. The Trojan Horse being a fine example.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troja...
Metaphorically a "Trojan Horse" has come to mean any trick or stratagem that causes a target to invite a foe into a securely protected bastion or place. A malicious computer program which tricks users into willingly running it is also called a "Trojan horse".
According to Quintus Smyrnaeus, Odysseus thought of building a great wooden horse (the horse being the emblem of Troy), hiding an elite force inside, and fooling the Trojans into wheeling the horse into the city as a trophy. Under the leadership of Epeios, the Greeks built the wooden horse in three days. Odysseus' plan called for one man to remain outside the horse; he would act as though the Greeks had abandoned him, leaving the horse as a gift for the Trojans.
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Glad you liked this episode so much, Terri.