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Ulysses by James Joyce Readalong & Re-Readalongs (2014, 2016); Audio Listen-Along (2017)
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Diane S ☔
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Sep 25, 2014 03:12AM
Can you imagine living inside Stephen's mind? It is so full of thoughts, just wandering every which way.
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@Evelyn- that's very impressive considering that you might not use it very often.@Gill- I noticed the religious comments as well. My guess is that the church did not take to those comments lightly. In fact, even now they still ban books. Dan Brown comes to mind as frowned upon by the catholic church.
@Robin- I had to reread the episode twice, and still haven't caught every detail. But I think it's easier through reading to focus on every word.
@Diane- I still can't understand why people ban books. Seems like such a shame.
As for living inside Stephen's head, I can barely make inside my own :)
Robin, at some point, Stephen was a medical student studying in Paris, so that episode were some of his memories of that time. That part of his life may be covered in A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man but I'm not sure since I haven't read that book yet.
Diane S. wrote: "Can you imagine living inside Stephen's mind? It is so full of thoughts, just wandering every which way."It would be tiring, for sure.
Although....sometimes my mind wanders just like that. One thought leads into another, which leads into another. That sort of thought wandering can only happen when one is alone and quiet.
I think that if we get the idea that Stephen is lost, we're getting out of the book what is intended. We'd have to read this book a dozen times to get close to what Joyce is saying on the levels that he's saying it.
A bit of a diversion from Ulysses, but have you seen the film, made by the Coen Brothers of 'Oh Brother, where art thou?' This is also based on the Odyssey, but the connections may be a bit looser!Here's a bit of info about it.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...
I love this film!
I also recently read this book The Sixteenth of Junewhich is a modern day telling of Ulysses, loosely of course. The family has a Bloomsday celebration very year. I don't think chapter 3 is meant to further the plot but more to let us into what Stephen is thinking.
Relating to colours, the primrose was the favourite flower of Disraeli, the British Prime Minister, and there was an organization called The Primrose League, to support the principles of the Conservative Party (including Union with England). So I'm guessing that mentions of the colour primrose relate to this.
Gill that is so coincidental, I just finished reading a book about Queen Victoria and in it she reflects that she knows Disreali's favorite flower is the primrose, because that is the flower she kept giving him from her garden!
Evelyn wrote: "Gill that is so coincidental, I just finished reading a book about Queen Victoria and in it she reflects that she knows Disreali's favorite flower is the primrose, because that is the flower she ke..."That is one coincidence!
I found I could download the text free on my iPad so I went back to see what I had missed. I think I'll listen to a section, then review in print. It is glorious to listen to with all the wordplays, alliteration, and so on.
Robin, I'm really glad to hear that the audio is good. I have an audio copy and have been a bit trepid about listening to it. I wasn't sure if I'd understand enough. Audio is a bit hit-&-miss for me. Sometimes I zone out for a moment and I don't think that would work well for Ulysses. Your comments make me look forward to listening to this.
I zoned out some, that's why I had to repeat sections, also sometimes the internal monologue is spoken very quietly.
Chapter 4 (Calypso) pages 43-54 (last words: "Poor Dignam!")Humorous, pictorial presentation of Chapter 4 (a little over 2 minutes long):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alVFMu...
Step-by-step summary of Chapter 4 (it's a little bit like a game: do you recognize the chapter you read with this summary? :D ):
http://www.shmoop.com/ulysses-joyce/e...
(Notice that we've gone back in time. When we left Stephen it was getting close to noon)
4. CALYPSO
TIME: 8.00 am.
SCENE: Leopold Bloom's house, 7 Eccles Street, in the northwest quadrant of Dublin.
ORGAN: Kidney
ART: Economics
COLOURS: Orange
SYMBOL: Nymph
TECHNIQUE: Narrative (mature)
CORRESPONDENCES: Calypso-the Nymph; The Recall-Dlugacz; Ithaca-Zion. (Penelope 'wife', Ulysses, Callidike, Vagina, Exile, Family, Israel in Bondage. Sense: Departing traveller).
Homeric Parallels:
In book 5 of The Odyssey Odysseus is found imprisoned on Calypso's island where, for the last 7 years, she has compelled him to be her lover.
Athena petitions Zeus to free Odysseus, and Hermes is sent to instruct Calypso accordingly.
As Odysseus sets out Poseidon sends thunderheads against him, but again Athena intercedes; the storms are calmed and Odysseus is given the gift of self-possession.
Summary:
Leopold Bloom is preparing breakfast for himself and his wife (and his cat) before departing for Paddy Dignam's funeral.
The jingling springs of the bed upstairs show that his wife Molly is awake. He muses upon the source of the bed—it came, like Molly, from Gibraltar. He goes out (like Odysseus in The Odyssey, it is Bloom's wanderings which will take up the major part of Ulysses), and after greeting a friend enters a butcher's and buys a pork kidney.
He daydreams on a range of themes, and fantasises about women he sees. He walks back from the butcher musing about the exotic Mediterranean; this has been prompted by reading about orange groves on the newspaper wrapping he has picked up. It refers to a Zionist colony of planters: Bloom himself is a Jewish advertising salesman, hence the interest in the ad and the place.
The sky clouds over and, thinking about his wife Bloom hurries home, picking up mail on the doorstep. There is a letter from his daughter Milly, and a letter for his wife from Blazes Boylan, who is both the organiser of a concert tour which features Molly (phrases and refrains from popular songs and operas pepper Bloom's internal monologue throughout) and, at present, her lover.
Bloom scorches his kidney then repairs to the outside loo with Titbits (a magazine or newspaper).
Comment:
Bloom is a different type of consciousness altogether. He becomes both an Odyssean wanderer and a representative of 'everyman' as the novel develops, and the workings of his mind perhaps reflect his modern, mundane and yet 'universal' status.
Unlike the analytical and philosophical approach to the world which we encountered in Stephen, Bloom's relationship to his environment is more sensual and more bodily — he interacts with his world, on a range of levels.
An important question to ask yourself when following Bloom's development might be "is he an anti-hero in a mock-heroic novel, or is he the 'hero' of a specifically modernist epic"?
A range of motifs, themes, concepts and images arise. Bloom's potato might be a symbol of Irish history. Metempsychosis, or the "transmigration of souls", a word drawn from a popular semi-pornographic novel yet with classical overtones ("it's from the Greek"), might be a structural principle of the novel itself — is Bloom Ulysses 'transmigrated' into the twentieth century? (the word itself will 'transmigrate' in Molly's mouth into "met-him-pike-hoses", and, as the motifs of the novel accumulate, we will meet these words and symbols, in different forms, again and again).
I read that the outhouse scene was one of the reasons people wanted to ban this book. They certainly never saw that in Victorian literature. I was amused by his taking reading matter with him, as I also like to read in the bathroom, but then realized there's a dual purpose as the paper is used for cleaning oneself.
I'm further ahead, so only brief comments. I found Episode 10, very readable and enjoyable. I'm now partway through Episode 11. Some parts of it I'm finding complicated. In others the writing is lovely, so musical. I think someone said before, there are things about the writing and language that sometimes remind me of Dylan Thomas. Now I'm further through, I find it so clever how Joyce adjusts his writing style to each episode.
http://www.james-joyce-music.com/joyc...Just came across this link to Music in Joyce's Works. It looks interesting.
The website also includes a link to an article by 'Buck Mulligan' about Joyce and music:
http://www.james-joyce-music.com/extr...
What was very obvious to me at first reading is that Stephen is much more introspective, intellectual and philosophical than Bloom . This was very obvious , even before looking at any analysis .Bloom is much more physical than intellectual - the food , walking behind the woman in the store to see her behind , and in the end having to read about him going to the bathroom . I guess in keeping with his representing Everyman - the depiction of eating , defacating , sexual innuendos.
Following the sequence of events was easier here . Left this wondering more about Leopold and Molly's relationship with the implication of her affair . Previously we saw the anti semiotic views of Deasey and now we know that Bloom is Jewish so I also wonder how much this will play as a theme as the book progresses .
Thanks again , Petra for the background especially the YouTube link !
Petra thank you so much for the summary and info! This episode was much easier to read, much less cryptic than Stephen's musings, which was a relief. Still, there was so much information packed into relatively few pages. I am noticing that there is very little dialogue in this book.
Another observation is that nothing is explained. We seem to be observing several people who are going about their daily routines and we are expected to just know what is going on. I am thinking here of Stephen's broken glasses (had we been paying attention yesterday we would have known Stephen broke them), also who is Dingham and how and why did he die? Unless the character we are observing decides to reminisce, we get no background information. I have not read anything like this before and far from being frustrated by it, I am quite enjoying how Joyce is playing with the reader in this way.
I'm really glad that we're all enjoying the book. High fives to everyone!Gill, I'm glad you're enjoying it enough to want to read it but kind of saddened that you're ahead, too. From experience, when I get ahead, I tend to forget enough details and what happened when that I don't participate much in the actual discussions. I hope that's not happening with you. We want to hear your thoughts on the episodes as we move along.
How are we doing with the schedule? Are we moving along too slowly? The chapters will start to get longer soon; keep that in mind. We can, though, adjust the schedule to whatever the group would like.
I agree. Bloom is much more involved in his world than Stephen is in his. Bloom's world is outward, while Stephen's is inward.Evelyn, Joyce has made it difficult for us, as readers, to know the background of things, that's for sure. He's so focussed on this one day. There's no history and no future; there's just this one day. It's a very interesting method of writing a story.
I'm left wondering about the deterioration of Bloom & Molly's relationship. It seems to me that Bloom still wants a good relationship with Molly; I'm not so sure about whether she still wants a good one with Bloom.
She seems a bit of a prima donna, lying in bed, having her breakfast served to her, complaining if things aren't right, etc.
Whereas Bloom tries to please her, thinks about their past, worries about her possible affair and seems a bit saddened by it all.
I wonder if their relationship started deteriorating after the death of their son or just drifted apart over the years due to no actual circumstance other than life just happening? If the former, it's very sad that they couldn't grieve together and be stronger.
The potato that Bloom carries around is something like a key-fob, right? I can't imagine that he carries a real potato around in his pocket?
I also thought the breakfast scene was sad with him eating alone in the kitchen. Although his life is more outward, his home life is solitary and lonely. That's really sad, I think.
I've found a more specific link than the ones I referred to earlier. This links to information about various songs that play a role in Ulysses:http://www.james-joyce-music.com/ulys...
Thanks, Gill!Here are some interesting mentions from the annotation:
1. Dlugacz's - Dlugacz's is the only commercial establishment mentioned in Ulysses that did not exist in 1094. The novel's butcher takes his anme from Moses Dlugacz (1884-1943), a young Zionist intellectual who was an English student of Joyce's in Trieste.
2. "Tiberias" (pg 46) - Tiberias is another name for the sea of Galilee.
3. Moses Montefiore - Sir Moses Haim Montefoire; English Jew of Italian origin, a philanthropist who helped the cause of Jews in England and Europe and promoted Jewish settlement in Palestine.
4. Agendath Netaim - an agricultural settlement in Palestine.
5. Turkish government - from 1516 until the end of the First World War, Palestine was part of the Turkish empire.
6. "Eight marks" (pg 47) - should read "eighty marks" (the typist missed the "y"). In 1904 the German mark was worth about one English shilling.
7. "his back is like that Norwegian captain's" - his is hunchbacked. Joyce's father and god-father used to tell a joke about a hunchbacked Norwegian captain.
8. "first race" (pg 47) - the book of Genesis traces the genealogy of the Israelites back through Noah to Adam. Therefore, the Israelites, or Jews, would be the first race. However this first race was not actually born & bred in the land of Israel as Bloom here claims. Until the story of Abraham who migrated to Canaan from Haran, all the events in Genesis take place in Babylonia and Assyria.
9. "Ruby: the Pride of the Ring" - Joyce derives this title and other details from "Ruby: A Novel. Founded on the Life of a Circus Girl" by Amye Reade (1889).
10. "Papli" - a term of endearment used by Hungarian children for either their fathers or grandfathers. Bloom's father was Hungarian.
11. "She knew from the start poor little Rudy wouldn't live" - The Blooms' son Rudy was born on 29 Dec 1893 and died on 9th Jan 1894
12. "Invent a story for some proverb which?" (pg 53) - ths phrase was added to the text on the galleys, but the typesetters misread it, thereby creating an unhelpful ambiguity; this should read: 'Invent a story for some proverb. Which?'
Throughout the annotated notes, there is mention of music, composers, popular songs of the time, the ballet, etc. As Gill has noted, music plays a big part in this episode.
The audio version has music between scenes that sounds like it's on an old phonograph. I assume they are excerpts from songs mentioned in the book.
Petra , you asked about the reading schedule . It's fine for me especially as the episodes get longer . I like reading , mulling it over and then looking at comments here and synopses . Plus doing it this way lets me keep on with my other books .
I can't imagine reading it straight through without doing that !
Sorry. Slacking Have got behind Need to catch up.
Angela, I need other books in between this one as well. It's a heavy book to be reading as THE only book one is reading. Anne, I hope you keep reading. If you have any comments or questions or thoughts about the episode that you're at, please post here. You don't have to post only for the episode that we're at. The discussion is for all parts up to where we are.
How far have you read? What do you think of what you've read so far?
I think the reading schedule is just right for all the reasons listed above
Thanks! I just wanted to check to see if many people were reading ahead. If so, we could have sped up the schedule (don't want anyone to get bored and move away from the discussion). We seem to have lost a few people who said they'd read along with us. I wondered if they'd already finished or were so far ahead so as not to post.
I hope everyone feels comfortable enough to post a comment, no matter where they are in the read.
We've got one more episode to read that is shorter, then they start getting longer. Let me know if we should split the episodes. This is a book to be enjoyed slowly so that one doesn't get overwhelmed and give up. (I wonder if Joyce meant it to be read slowly? Was that in the plan while he wrote this book?)
Petra, is it possible to provide the link for where you are getting the information about the circles/systems from? That way I can look at it for the section I'm reading currently. Thanks. And btw thanks so much for all the info/comments you have provided. It's really encouraged me in reading the book. I'm now halfway through. It almost feels like I'm on the home straight!
Here it is: http://pers-www.wlv.ac.uk/~fa1871/joy...Sorry, I thought you had that link. :(
I'm really glad that you're enjoying the book. I think it gets a lot of bad press and people are afraid to give it a try. I'm so glad that we're reading this together and that we're liking it.
Petra wrote: "Here it is: http://pers-www.wlv.ac.uk/~fa1871/joy...Sorry, I thought you had that link. :(
I'm really glad that you're enjoying the book. I think it gets a lot of bad press and peopl..."Thanks I think I did have the link, but don't know where it is.
Yes, I don't know exactly what I was expecting. But it is much more fun and more accessible, than I thought it would be.
I'm catching a few of the jokes this time and am kind of thrilled about that. The first time I read it I didn't see one joke at all. It does take some work to read it but I think it's worth the effort. I like the story and what Joyce is trying to do. Some of it is more effective than others but he was experimenting and that's how it goes. At least he tried and we get to enjoy the results.
Yes, occasionally I get a pun, and go 'Yeah' inside, and sometimes out loud! I'm also realizing that I know more about Irish history than I thought. It was part of what we studied in History at school, many moons ago, and quite a bit of it is coming back. I was in Dublin a couple of years ago. I must check through my photos, I'm sure I've got a relevant one somewhere.
Petra , Even though the episodes are getting longer , my choice would be to do complete episodes . I really am not in favor of stretching out the schedule, but if that's what's decided , I'll move ahead as Gill .
I am enjoying this !!
Thanks, Angela. I'm in favor of reading a whole episode at once, too.
Episode 5 Lotus Eaters:http://jamesjoyce.ie/category/ulysses... (graphic novel of Episodes 1, 2 & 5 and 4) ..Episodes 2 & 5 are mixed up together but the names and page numbers are below each picture so it's easy to read along in sequence; click on picture to enlarge & read)
Greek mythology:
The lotus-eaters were a race of people living on an island near North Africa (possibly Djerba) dominated by lotus plants. The lotus fruits and flowers were the primary food of the island and were narcotic, causing the people to sleep in peaceful apathy.
The Odyssey:
Shortly after departing for home, Ulysses and his men were stranded on the land of the Lotus Eaters by a storm. When some of his men ate the lotus, they longed to stay on the island forever. Odysseus had to herd the drugged men back onto the ship and push off himself.
Ulysses, Episode 5:
The idea of the lotus, a sort of lazy drugged mindlessness, runs all through this chapter. Bloom is killing time before Dignam's funeral at 11am. He is largely idle, running small time errands for himself and Molly, and sitting in at the back of the Church ceremony.
This is the first time we get a whole chapter of Bloom alone. In contrast to Stephen's hyperactive thoughts in "Proteus," a lot of Bloom's thoughts are pretty simple and ordinary (probably much more like our own).
The episode opens with him thinking about idleness in the East, and the idea is omnipresent in the next fifteen or so pages. It's undisciplined thinking, street-wandering grogginess.
I think the schedule is fine. I've gotten a bit behind, but I have another busy week before I'll catch up. Robin, glad to see you here! I can't imagine trying to fathom this the first time on audio. But it does sound like it would be fun to go back and listen to it AFTER I have finished reading it. I'm especially looking forward to all the musical bits. I think I might have to get the annotated book via ILL if I can.
Laurel, I was a bit behind this week, too, but was able to catch up yesterday.I've posted "info" messages at the start of each week so that there are no spoilers (if this book could have any) for those who need to catch up. Feel free to read the posts to the section where you're at and add any comments you have on those sections. I'd love to hear your thoughts as you read along.
I like Bloom. He seems in tune with his world. He's not completely happy, he has problems but he's not overwhelmed by them. He's quite a bit of an ogler of women (he certainly notices them. LOL!) and seems to be toying with the idea of an affair himself. That's sad, I think, because it means he's missing intimacy and a deeper connection to someone special. Do you think that the rift between him and Molly began with their son's death? I do. It's sad that such an awful event allowed them to drift apart instead of bringing them together.
But I also think that his true, inner desire is to find that connection with Molly again.
I did find that Bloom seems to be a bit of a timid character at home.
He's continually thinking of how his actions affect Molly (won't go pick up the key from their room so as not to disturb her, for example). While this is nice, it has some connotations that perhaps she rules the roost and he's not as comfortable at home as he should be? It's too early to tell, maybe.
He also seems to cater to her (bringing her breakfast and entertaining her while his breakfast burns, for example...her needs are above his). The equality of their marriage seems to be gone....again, this may be too early in the book to know this concretely; it just appears to be there.
Petra, I assumed when I read it that Molly wouldn't have sex with Bloom after their son died, partly because it wasn't the right time to try for another child, and partly because it wasn't the time to be having pleasure. And that they didn't find a way to talk to each other about any of it.Yes, I also like Bloom as a person.
Yes, but it's been 11 years. There comes a time when the time for pleasure returns. It seems that that time caused them to lose touch with each other in ways that they can't seem to find again....but that Bloom would like to find. We don't know whether Molly would want that, too.
Just a few observations:If Bloom is supposed to be the protagonist , I wonder why the novel starts with Stephen ? Maybe for us to see the contrast in their personalities.? Looking forward to their meeting up.
Again we see the focus of Bloom's thoughts being more physical than the intellectual more cerebral thoughts of Stephen . In the previous episode , we learned about Molly's affair and now we see that Bloom's got a correspondence of a sexual nature going on .
Yes , I do agree Petra , he does like to look at the ladies . I, too wondered about what really caused the rift in their relationship and I read somewhere that it was after the death of their son. But , 11 years is a long time and sad that they are seeking intimacy in other places than with each other.
Bloom also is suffering the loss of loved ones - his father as well as his son . There seems to be a focus on death so far in the book with the recurring mention on Stephen's mother's death in the earlier episodes and now with Bloom's mention of his father's death (suicide , I think - mention of Ophelia's suicide - another Hamlet reference.) and his son, as well as he is on the way to Dignam's funeral.
There are more religious references and ridicule of the Catholic church practices - "Shut your eyes and open your mouth. What? _Corpus:_body. Corpse. Good idea the Latin. Stupefies them first. Hospice for dying. They don't seem to chew it: only swallow it down. Rum idea: eating bits of a corpse. Why cannibals cotton to it."
Angela wrote: "Just a few observations:If Bloom is supposed to be the protagonist , I wonder why the novel starts with Stephen ? Maybe for us to see the contrast in their personalities.? Looking forward to thei..."
With Bloom as the protagonist, we get an outsider's look at the mass. As someone not raised in church, I felt the same way - eating the body and drinking the blood of a god sounds like cannibalism from some prehistoric tribe.
Good point ,Robin . I was raised in the Catholic Church so looked at it from a different perspective . I was thinking more that Joyce was ridiculing the mass through Bloom's perspective .
Angela wrote: "Good point ,Robin . I was raised in the Catholic Church so looked at it from a different perspective . I was thinking more that Joyce was ridiculing the mass through Bloom's perspective ."I think you are right - he is making fun of it or trivializing it by having it seen from outside, rather than say, having a true believer express something about the mystery or seriousness of the moment. But it seems Bloom doesn't take Jewish ritual any more seriously. He plays around with the Hebrew words as he does here with the Latin ones.
Angela wrote: "Bloom also is suffering the loss of loved ones - his father as well as his son . There seems to be a focus on death so far in the book..."Or, maybe, of being left behind and alone and, therefore, having no one to share with or to live with/for?
Stephen is so isolated, it seems. Bloom, although he mingles more with his physical world, feels isolated and, perhaps, lonely.
I feel kind of sad that Bloom got that letter. They haven't met yet but the thought of an affair does seem to be there. I'd much rather he work things out with Molly than start something new with a stranger. I'm all for working things through and finding that happy ending. It may not be possible to find it but I'd like to see them try before giving up on their relationship.
There's not much to talk about in this week's episode. We follow Bloom around as he wastes a bit of time before Digman's funeral. It's all pretty ordinary. Let's talk about what we think of the novel so far.
How are you liking it?
Is it as difficult as you thought it would be? Why or why not?
What do you think of the "non story" of this book (it being just an ordinary day in an ordinary man's life)?
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