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Ulysses by James Joyce Readalong & Re-Readalongs (2014, 2016); Audio Listen-Along (2017)
You're not cheating. Circe is (probably) experimental. It's exhausting, no matter whether one likes it or not. The psychotic, hallucinatory effects wouldn't be for everyone. The important part to take out of this episode is that Bloom & Stephen meet & connect, that Bloom protects Stephen and keeps him safe.
They are exhausted by now. It's been a long day for both of them.
The audio version I listened to is 40 discs long. I can't remember how many were dedicated to Circe but it was a lot. At times I thought I'd never reach the end of the episode. :D
Well , I have been listening to Emaeus and I find the writing wordy. They go off on directions I find boring. Of course it is nice that Bloom is helping Stephen, the problem is that I have not come to feel anything for these characters after hours of listening. I am going to bed now. Maybe tomorrow I will feel more cheerful about this when I listen at breakfast. I am not good at faking liking something when I don't.
Chrissie, you're very close to finishing now. I hope you continue to the end, but there's no pressure if you want to quit. Honestly I can't imagine reading or listening to Joyce at the rate you've worked through it. I think one chapter a week maximum is the fastest I'd ever want to tackle it. I understand this would feel strange when you work on one book at a time, but each chapter of Ulysses is like it's own book in some ways. I'm sure I'd have hated it if I'd read it all at once, but working through slowly, even slower than I wanted, to keep pace with our group reads, really helped me to absorve everything and meant that I was never swamped by the complexities of the text. Again though, I completely understand if it's not for you, plenty of people hate the book! Petra, I agree that it gets better with each reading, perhaps after the third time it will increase from 4 stars to 5 for me!
I agree with Pink. I know I could never read Ulysses at this pace, not even now that I've read it many times already. There are just too many concepts, words, ideas, people, happenings for me to absorb it quickly. Too much Joyce in one stretch is frustrating, I think. However, I understand that this is how you approach books and I think you are doing tremendously well with this read. I do hope you don't give up at this point but would understand if you do.
Pink, the fact that it gets better with each reading and that we find out new details with every reading is what keeps me rereading it. I'm really not a rereader of books. This book is an exception but it's almost like a new book each time, in a way.
I understand now what you both mean about it being a book to read slowly. I do plan on finishing it.....but at points I get so frustrated I think not one minute more. I see it this way: I plan on going through it now to have a general idea of the whole book. Then I will reconsider if I want to reread it again for more depth.
The beginning of Emaeus is slow and wordy, but when Bloom and Stephen finally get into the cabman's shelter the discussion gets more interesting and there are, as usual, funny lines and play on swords. Like when one guy looks another guy up and down, but this is expressed as he "Sherlockholmsianed" the guy. And I liked the conversation between Bloom and Stephen where one says, "We can't change the country." and the other replies, "Let us change the subject."
I continue. The last chapters are very long, but I estimate I can finish the book today or tomorrow if I spend a lot of time on it.
Chrissie wrote: ".....but at points I get so frustrated I think not one minute more. ..."Oh, I can relate to this comment. That's when I put the book aside and read something else for awhile.
I am glad to hear that you will finish this book. Should you ever reread it, I suggest you look at each Episode as a complete book, not part of a book. Read an episode, read another book, read another episode, etc. That may work better for your style of reading?
Joyce is wonderful with words. It's always fun to see words such as "sherlockholmsianed". They are so to the point and accurate that everyone knows what they mean, despite them being made up. And they are so apt and accurate.
I have just completed it. I do think that on a second read it is better to to tackle it episoder by episode. At the same time I am also glad I managed to get to the end and can see it as a whole.
There is no doubt about it that Joyce is a master of words, BUT clearly, for me, that does not mean I have enjoyed reading it.
I will try and write a review today. Jeez how does one do that?
I know I will give a link to this discussion b/c you guys have REALLY helped me a lot. A thousand thanks to both of you, Petra and Pink. Without you both I would have not managed.
I do think the narration by Jim Norton and Marcella Riordan was superb. Have others thought the same about this narration? What a masterpiece of production, with the music from titles referenced in the text played between the episodes.
Gosh, Joyce DID also get into the head of not only men, Bloom and Stephen, but also Marion. I enjoyed hearing her drowsy thoughts at the end. She is quite a handful, but she certainly did get me chuckling.
Well done, Chrissie! I applaud you for getting through this tome in what?......3 days??!! That's an amazing feat all by itself. Despite the "speed read", you got a lot out of this book and even laughed. I never laughed once in my first reading. I would also never have been able to read or listen to this work straight through as you just did. I don't know if I could do that now. I need short Joyce breaks. :D
I read your review, which is wonderful. It reminded me of Molly's soliloquy, in a way......full of the faults and wonders of this work and always positive in feel & sentiment; wanting to continue with the relationship in future. LOL!
Petra, it took me more than three days. I started early on the 23rd and finished on the 27th. I read intensively, that is for sure. Like Molly, I do think it is important to be aware of both the positive and negative in a situation. Having only seen one day though, we don't know what the future will hold for her. Maybe she will get fed up. Maybe she just cannot be bothered to do anything and by having (view spoiler) herself, she is more or less satisfied. I do not think we can determine who is at fault.
Pink, well, I finished it. That is an achievement for me, given how difficult I found it. I am debating if I will keep or return the audiobook. If I should one day want to give it another try, I would definitely choose this audibook again.
Petra and Pink, let me repeat once again how much I appreciate the help you both have given me.
Well, you know that feeling of excitement you get when you see there's a new post in the Ulysses discussion thread. Well this time I'm providing it!
Ahh! I did not know that this existed! I HAVE Ulysses on audio and as a Kindle book but have not had the guts to start the thing....THIS thread may have given me some guts! --Jen from Quebec :0)
Gill, look what you've done!!.....a new convert!!!! That's awesome!Welcome, Jennifer!
We're always here to talk about Ulysses....any time, any episode, any thought.
The audio is wonderful. We all listened to different versions and all were enjoyed. Which one do you have?
Reading along (or in tandem with) the audio is a brilliant idea.
Post any and all thoughts here and we'll respond.
Gill wrote: "Well, you know that feeling of excitement you get when you see there's a new post in the Ulysses discussion thread. Well this time I'm providing it!"Haha, I just thought exactly that! Ohh a new post about Ulysses!
Jennifer I hope you give it a try :)
Jennifer, best of luck! Reading/listening will be quite an experience. You'll find a lot of support here for your endeavor.
Well get ready for some more excitement. I think I'm to Read Ulysses again!
Jennifer Lynn wrote: "Ahh! I did not know that this existed! I HAVE Ulysses on audio and as a Kindle book but have not had the guts to start the thing....THIS thread may have given me some guts! --Jen from Quebec :0)"I want to reread. I would love to hear any help you have in reading daily.
This isn't about Ulysses, but it's still about James Joyce. I'm listening to an audiobook Astrophysics for People in a Hurry. (Neil deGrasse Tyson, believe it or not, is an astrophysicist who's quite popular on American talk shows. He's very entertaining.) Last night I was listening to the section about quarks, which are elementary particle of matter smaller than a proton or neutron. The name was proposed in 1962 by physicist Murray Gell-Man, and it comes from Finnegans Wake:
Three quarks for Muster Mark!
Sure he has not got much of a bark
And sure any he has it's all beside the mark.
I love this story, but word origins have always fascinated me.
Is there a group forming for another reread?
Three quarks for Muster Mark!
Sure he has not got much of a bark
And sure any he has it's all beside the mark.
I love this story, but word origins have always fascinated me.
Is there a group forming for another reread?
Gill wrote: "Well get ready for some more excitement. I think I'm to Read Ulysses again!"Oh....my........... gulp!.......
Terri wrote: "This isn't about Ulysses, but it's still about James Joyce. I'm listening to an audiobook Astrophysics for People in a Hurry. (Neil deGrasse Tyson, believe it or not,..."Terri, that's interesting. I'd never heard that. Really interesting how quarks were named.
Finnegan's Wake.......that one intimidates me.
I'm not sure if we're gearing up. We may well be.
Gill wrote: "jamesjoyce.ie is the reason why"Is that the James Joyce Centre in Dublin? I'm intrigued Gill.
Yes it is Pink. I've decided that I'm going to plan to go to Dublin on Bloomsday in 2018. I realise that I might have died before that date and so not make it after all. But the planning will be great fun and lots aCof pppprinteresting things about Joyce and Ulysses and the meaning of life et cëtera. There's an immense amount of things to do and read at the James Joyce centre,r
I just redownloaded the book Ulysses by Oxford books. For 7.95 i added a new narrator to read the book as i read it. The narrator is very good! Over the past couple years since i have started this book i have read the first chapter probably 20 times. I feel i really know these men.
I love hearing about making tea.
"Wheni makes tea i make tea
And when i makes water i make water."
May we drink lots of tea and read Ulysses!
I opened up my Oxford edition on this passage:The delegation partook of luncheon at the conclusion of which the dusky potentate , in the course of a happy speech, freely translated by the British chaplain, the reverend Ananias Praisegod Barebones, tendered his best thanks to Massa Walkup and emphasized the cordial relations existing between Abeakuta and the British Empire, stating that he treasured as one of his dearest possessions an illuminated bible, the volume of the word of God and the secret of England’s greatness, graciously presented to him by the white chief woman, the great squaw Victoria, with a personal dedication from the august hand of the Royal Donor. The Alaki then drank a lovingcup of firstshot usquebaugh to the toast Black and White from the skull of his immediate predecessor in the dynasty Kakachakachak, surnamed Forty Warts, after which he visited the chief factory of Cottonopolis and signed his mark in the visitors’ book, subsequendy executing an old Abeakutic wardance, in the course of which he swallowed several knives and forks, amid hilarious applause from the girl hands. *
This was after i had been reading the first chapter of Ulysses. I think that it must have been extremely painful to watch his mother die and know that she did not understand him. There world were different.
Joseph Campbell says that Ulysses starts off with Milligan holding a black mass. And Ulysses reminds me of all the things that you are not suppose to think.
He can refuse to kneel and pray but he can't wear grey.
Outwardly he did the right things but you couldn't control his thoughts.
It is interesting when society (powers that wish control over society) wants to control people's thoughts!
What do you think?
Terri wrote: "This isn't about Ulysses, but it's still about James Joyce. I'm listening to an audiobook Astrophysics for People in a Hurry. (Neil deGrasse Tyson, believe it or not,..."In Ulysses he talks about solar storms (i think in the beginning of chapter two of Ulysses). I have become interested in them lately because they threaten out electric grid, and thus our modern way of life. They also effect out health and have been blamed on revolutions. We are entering a new phase of the sun.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AbeokutaThis is mentioned by James Joyce in my quote from message 1931.
Interesting history and shows how England used the missionaries to colonize Africa.
In the introduction of the Oxford edition of Ulysses it says:In December 1921, two months before Ulysses was published, the French novelist, poet, and critic Valéry Larbaud presented the book to an enthusiastic audience gathered in Adrienne Monnier’s Paris bookshop, La Maison des Amis des Livres. Larbaud, who had read the book in its Little Review form, declared it as ‘great and comprehensive and human as Rabelais’ (LIII 40) Joyce approved.
So i looked up Rabelais.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franç...
Terri i think you would find him interesting because he was interested in language.
The French Renaissance was a time of linguistic controversies. Among the issues debated by scholars was the question of the origin of language. What was the first language? Is language something that all humans are born with or something that they learn? Is there some sort of connection between words and the objects they refer to, or are words purely arbitrary? Rabelais deals with these matters, among many others, in his books.
The early 16th century was also a time of innovations and change for the French language, especially in its written form. The first book of French grammar was published in 1530, followed nine years later by the language's first dictionary. Since spelling was far less codified than it is now, each author used his own orthography. Rabelais himself developed a personal set of rather complex rules. He was a supporter of etymological spelling, i.e., one that reflects the origin of words, and was thus opposed to those who favoured a simplified spelling, one that reflects the pronunciation of words.
I didn't know anything about this man, so this wiki link has helped me not only with the understanding of Joyce but also Tristan Shady.
In one of the notes on wiki it says:
Mikhail Bakhtin wrote Rabelais and His World, praising the author for his unbridled embrace of the carnival grotesque. In the book he analyzes Rabelais's use of the carnival grotesque throughout his writings and laments the death in modern culture of the purely communal spirit and regenerating laughter of the carnival.[2]
I had not heard about The Carnival of The Grotesque before. So i looked it up.
I found this wiki post to be helpful.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grote...
Gill wrote: "Yes it is Pink. I've decided that I'm going to plan to go to Dublin on Bloomsday in 2018. I realise that I might have died before that date and so not make it after all. But the planning will be gr..."Ah Gill, I'm so happy to hear that you're planning a visit! I hoped that was the case, but didn't know if it was a possibility for you. I had a look at the site and it looks so interesting and there's tours as well! Maybe I should get planning myself...
Pink, I don't know whether the actual visit is a possibility. I don't even know whether I'll be alive by next Bloomsday. But I do know that planning the visit is a possibility, and even more than that will be a pleasure.And as my bereavement councillor said to me, you're going to feel a bit of an idiot if you pllanbepp next late to get the tickets for anything in Dublin
Gill wrote: "Pink, I don't know whether the actual visit is a possibility. I don't even know whether I'll be alive by next Bloomsday. But I do know that planning the visit is a possibility, and even more than t..."
Gill wrote: "Gill wrote: "Pink, I don't know whether the actual visit is a possibility. I don't even know whether I'll be alive by next Bloomsday. But I do know that planning the visit is a possibility, and eve..."
Gill, I think planning is great. Of course I hope you get there! At least it's a possibility at the moment and I'm sure you'll have lots of fun with the preparations.
Cosmic wrote: "I opened up my Oxford edition on this passage:The delegation partook of luncheon at the conclusion of which the dusky potentate , in the course of a happy speech, freely translated by the Britis..."
Harry Blamires in his the new bloomsday book A Guide Through Ulysses implies that Mulligan may also have a tail.
Mark wrote: "Cosmic wrote: "I opened up my Oxford edition on this passage:The delegation partook of luncheon at the conclusion of which the dusky potentate , in the course of a happy speech, freely translate..."
Interesting !
Hi Gill - I'm brand new here and was just trying to get some attention. Personally, I don't think Mulligan has a tail! I don't even think he is celebrating a "black mass" either. He is certainly mocking Stephen and Stephen's former association with the Catholic church. But what I was trying to show was the general nonsense Ulysses commentators, even famous ones, are willing say. - )
Mark wrote: "Hi Gill - I'm brand new here and was just trying to get some attention. Personally, I don't think Mulligan has a tail! I don't even think he is celebrating a "black mass" either. He is certainly mo..."Welcome Mark!
Gill wrote: "Mark wrote: "Hi Gill - I'm brand new here and was just trying to get some attention. Personally, I don't think Mulligan has a tail! I don't even think he is celebrating a "black mass" either. He is..."Thank you, Gill! - )
Mark, welcome! It's always great to see a post to this thread. Keep them coming. :D
Hi all! Concerning Crisssie's msg, 1911
I'm not sure there is any fault to assign here. Both Bloom and Molly readily admit that the death of Rudy had a profound effect on their on their marriage.
Bloom says, on page 168, in Lestrygonians:
"...something changed. Could never like it again after Rudy."
And Molly says on page 778, in Penelope:
"...we were never the same..."
To my mind Bloom sees not having sex with his wife, as the only 100% effect means of birth control. (Even though he carries condoms around in his wallet.)
As to Molly's liaison with Boylan: she readily admits that the sex was really great, but I question whether she got kissed, or more importantly whether she got held. I don't think she gets the physical affection that she's craving until her husband slips in bed and kisses and embraces her behind.
I think the Blooms will stay together. Bloom's regular habit of forgiving each day those that have trespassed against him; couple with his inability to solve the riddle from Ecclesiastes: (not in the book) "How can one be warm alone?": leave him poised to forgive.
Throughout the entire novel Bloom repeatedly comments to himself about the physical warmth he so covets and enjoys sleeping with Molly for 16 years.
Just some thoughts. The page references are to a '61 Random House.
Mark wrote: "As to Molly's liaison with Boylan: she readily admits that the sex was really great, but I question whether she got kissed, or more importantly whether she got held. I don't think she gets the physical affection that she's craving until her husband slips in bed and kisses and embraces her behind....."I hadn't thought of it, Mark, but like this idea. Being held and kissed warm the soul in many ways. In terms of longevity, more than being wanted means. Wanted is more of a momentary thing in terms of permanence.
I like this thought. I'm sure it'll bring something to the reading of Penelope next time.
I think the Blooms will stay together as well. I like your reasoning of why they will.
Thank you, Petra! - )I like to read Ulysses as a love story. A study of the Yeats' quote, from chapter I, love's bitter mystery.
OK the die is cast. My brother has given me £50 to spend on things to do with Dublin and Bloomsday. Very exciting! And I'll be starting planning it all very soon.
That's exciting, Gill!!! DO IT!!!!!!!
Angela M wrote: "Episode 15Psychedelic - a great way to describe this Petra ! And yes it took me more than a couple of days to get through it. For all of the other episodes , as I've mentioned before , I read it ..."
Isolation is such a good word to describe the two heroes' situation.
With Stephen it seems to be by choice, and with Bloom it seems to be imposed upon him. Just a thought. - )
Angela M wrote: "Episode 16 Just got through 16 and I have to admit it was a relief to have some straight forward reading after the last episode even though Shmoop says it's filled "with cliches and catch phrases ..."
I think this is one of the ironies in Blooms story. When Bloom tells Stephen he is not Jewish, I think he means it in a religious sense. Bloom does not believe in the supernatural elements of anyone's religion. Rather it is Bloom's physical characteristic that cause others to insult him, perceiving him as Jewish. Just a thought. - )
Angela M wrote: "The catechism format - I had to laugh because it is as I remember the format of The Baltimore Catechism from my catholic grammar school days ! From first grade I still remember "Who is God? God is ..."Bloom is neither Odysseus nor Everyman. He is Bloom. A singular, unique individual with his own personal story to tell.
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I feel like I am cheating but it is better than giving up completely. Maybe. .....