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Ulysses by James Joyce Readalong & Re-Readalongs (2014, 2016); Audio Listen-Along (2017)
It seems I am now in the right place to leave messages, so I answered my own question!I am liking it narrated by Nordan. I am still in the audiobooks's chapter one, having listened to 35 minutes. I have already noticed the good writing.....and gotten a joke or two.
I think Nordan makes the personality of Mulligan come across loud and clear. He DOES dramatize, but I DO like it. I don't know why they are in the tower or why Stephen would not pray for his mother at her deathbed but no worry I guess I will find out sooner or later!
I don't understand why my audiobook has 25 chapter if there are 18 episodes.........
Some of the later chapters are split as they're so long. You can tell when this happens as there's a musical interlude between each proper chapter. So if you start a new section with no music, you know the chapter has been split. Have you read A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man? That's about Stephen, his Mother and other events that come before Ulysses, but it isn't necessary to know.
I keep meaning to read that (Portrait) but haven't quite around to it yet.
I'd like to revisit it one day. I didn't enjoy it very much, but it was my first book by Joyce, so it would be good to return to it, having read more of his work.
Chrissie, you can read our notes & posts whenever you like, either before or after you listen to an episode. It depends on how it works best for you. On my first time through, I liked reading some blogs, etc after reading the episode to help me sort through what I had just read.
We don't have rules in this thread. There are no spoilers for us, so no rules needed. :D
I haven't read anything else by Joyce and keep meaning to get to Portrait.
33 new posts about Ulysses! Year jokes! Are we really going to have to do this again?!
For some reason I meant to say yikes and it came out of herejokes. I think that about sums Ulysses up!
Gill wrote: "For some reason I meant to say yikes and it came out of herejokes. I think that about sums Ulysses up!"Haha!
Gill wrote: "For some reason I meant to say yikes and it came out of herejokes. I think that about sums Ulysses up!"LOL!
I think that the writing is so much the star in Joyce's writing that spoilers are sort of beside the point.
Tom wrote: "I think that the writing is so much the star in Joyce's writing that spoilers are sort of beside the point."I agree, totally.
Pink wrote: "Some of the later chapters are split as they're so long. You can tell when this happens as there's a musical interlude between each proper chapter. So if you start a new section with no music, you ..."You know I don't dump books often; that one I did. I found it boring and Stephen's portrayal lacked depth, at least FOR ME.
I am definitely liking this more in audio. It is easier to differentiate between thought and dialog. In real life people are thinking and doing more than one thing at once. That is what is done here, and is so well executed.
It definitely has humor - like when the school headmaster says Ireland never persecuted the Jews b/c they never let them in. The next chapter, which must be episode three, is clearly stream of consciousness, but it looses me. Its content goes all over the place. clearly, Stephen is well educated! Norton whispers some lines so I have had to dramatically increase the volume. Then he yells.......
I do agree that some of the lines are totally magnificent.
Pink wrote: "Some of the later chapters are split as they're so long. You can tell when this happens as there's a musical interlude between each proper chapter. So if you start a new section with no music, you ..."Pink, thanks for explaining why there are 25 chapters in the audiobook but only 18 in the written book. Very helpful.
Tor those of you who have listened to the audibook narrated by Jim Norton, am I correct in thinking that this is the original 1922 edition? I am not having trouble understanding it, but I am sort of wondering where the story is going. I am in Episode 6, where the corpse falls out of the carriage.
I am trying to think if the stream of consciousness thoughts are representative of how we really do think. I would say yes, at least so far.
As far as I know it's the 1922 text. Aside from edits to correct printing mistakes, I don't know of any later alterations. Is that Paddy Dignam's funeral section? He doesn't really fall out in the street does he? I remember it being Bloom's mind wandering away from him.
I don't remember Dignam falling into the street either. I do remember that this is where we meet Macintosh. LOL!
Petra wrote: "I don't remember Dignam falling into the street either. I do remember that this is where we meet Macintosh. LOL!"Yes!
Pink wrote: "As far as I know it's the 1922 text. Aside from edits to correct printing mistakes, I don't know of any later alterations. Is that Paddy Dignam's funeral section? He doesn't really fall out in th..."
I glanced through the accompanying PDF file and 1922 is what I came to. Thank you. As I understand it, later alterations made references to Odysseus, not in the text but in the chapter titles or something like that. Is this wrong?
Yep, on the way to Paddy's funeral. OK, I misunderstood that; so his falling out was just in Bloom's head. Thanks for straightening me out. I remember thinking that very little of the text went into the details of getting the body back in! I thought that was strange.
Petra, yep. A guy in a macintosh is there at the funeral. Not much is said about him except that it is peculiar he is there and nobody seems to know much about him. He is drawn mysteriously.
I am going to be honest........I am having serious trouble. I say I like books that are well written. The book is. Some of the lines truly sparkle. I say I like books that cleverly wind in references to other topics: literature, philosophy, politics for example. This book certainly has this too. I say I like books that capture reality - here the book really marvels. But I cannot deny that I am still having trouble! Is it too drawn out? The minuscule details sometimes bore me. Seriously, even if what he is thinking about is what does flit through our heads and thus real, many of these thoughts tare also inconsequential and thus boring. I feel at times like I am wading through a swamp. In the back of my head is the thought that if I don't pay attention to everything, and as you see I am still making mistakes, I will miss something essential in understanding what happens. I don't quite know why I am suffering. Is it at points too highbrow? At other points it is just the opposite! Is it too drawn out? Is it over-done?
Why aren't I more interested in either of the Blooms' infidelities or why they have marital problems? Or even the death of their son Rudy. I feel very little for the central characters...... and there is an overflow of subsidiary figures. I guess some of them will become more important. Like the guy in the macintosh.
Is it important to understand the connection to Odysseus? This goes completely over my head!
I am starting episode nine now.
Thank you for letting me express what I am thinking and feeling. Thank you for answering my questions.
OK, reading episode 9 is certainly giving me trouble.Joyce knows literature MUCH better than I ever will. He throws around Shakespeare's works so quickly that I quite simply cannot follow. This is all too highbrow for me.
The discussions flits around between many interesting topics, but I am wondering if the book will ever make clear Joyce's views on antisemitism, paternity, family bonds, extramarital dalliances, suicide, and more.
I do think he is extremely clever with words, but that is not all that makes a book. Must it be necessary for clever books to be so abstruse?
OK, I can see studying the book as part of a course on literature, but that is not really what I am looking for. I also think a book should give enjoyment as you read. Yeah, I am getting some enjoyment, but that enjoyment is drowned out by other parts that are either over my head or boring.
I know several of you have told me not to get discouraged, that the next chapter will be different ....... Please tell me what the book gives on completion. What is Joyce trying to say? What will I miss if I don't continue? I need some encouragement and a reason to go on.
Chrissie wrote: "A guy in a macintosh is there at the funeral...."Macintosh pops up everywhere after he's introduced. No one knows him, yet he's almost omnipresent.
He becomes almost like a friend by the end of the book.
Chrissie wrote: "ater alterations made references to Odysseus, not in the text but in the chapter titles or something like that.."There are Odysseus titles in some later editions but not all. The titles are in Post 2. I don't know how common it is to have the titles in the books. My copy doesn't have them.
I didn't get the connection to The Odyssey on my first read through (not having read it at that time). I can see some connections now but still not many. It's fun to see, adds maybe a bit of purpose or focus (?...might not be the right words exactly) but isn't necessary.
Chrissie wrote: "as you see I am still making mistakes, I will miss something essential in understanding what happens. ..."Parts are tedious. I've read this multiple times and have parts that I'm not really fond of and glad to be finished with. I think we all have those.
Missing details is just a part of Ulysses. It's like everyday life, I guess. We can all miss details at any moment in Life.
These missed details are fun to pick up in a reread.
I don't know where you are now in the book (**edited below), Chrissie, but you are whipping through it quite fast. That may be part of the tedium? I know that when I read or listen to Ulysses a little each day was all I could take. It's hard reading/listening. My brain needs a break.
As well, I like to look up some of the more curious details Joyce mentions (see all the posts from everyone on our previous readings).
I wouldn't be able to plow through this book so quickly, especially not in the first reading.
I don't think the points are too high-brow but they are from a different time and a different culture. I think that people in Joyce's time and place might have had a better intuitive feeling for what he was saying since they were more familiar with life at that time. For us, it requires a bit of sleuthing to figure some things out.
**Chapter 9......Oy!!! That's a tedious chapter!!
The good news is that the next chapter, The Wandering Rocks, is a favorite of all of us. It's a fun chapter.
Petra, when is he going to be introduced and what is his name.......so I don't goof things up?! I am trying my best, but now I don't trust what I think I understand. I KNOW I don't understand everything. Thoughts versus what really happens can get confused and some of the references to literature go over my head.
Petra wrote: "Chrissie wrote: "ater alterations made references to Odysseus, not in the text but in the chapter titles or something like that.."There are Odysseus titles in some later editions but not all. The..."
OK. I did see then in message two but they do not help me understand the book.
Petra, OK, I will try and not feel as stupid as I do to the things I miss and don't understand. And you are right that all of life IS that way! I have to admit that the more I understand the more I enjoy something. I don't necessarily have to understand but it shouldn't confuse me. It is OK if it just leaves me to think.I was thinking that a slower speed might be an alternative........but I dislike reading two books at the same time. I like to fall into a book and envelope myself in it. What to do? I DO spend a lot of time reading and my husband I listen at meals, then we talk together about what we have read. At the moment we are both having the same thoughts.
Chrissie wrote: "I know several of you have told me not to get discouraged, that the next chapter will be different ....... Please tell me what the book gives on completion. What is Joyce trying to say? What will I miss if I don't continue? I need some encouragement and a reason to go on. ..."You're half way through, Chrissie. Maybe a break is needed? You've plowed through half a dense book in 2-3 days. That's an incredible pace.
Have you been taking breaks and reading our previous posts and comments? Perhaps those will help you see what we saw and how we felt?
It's difficult to just state what the book gives on completion without reading it again. There's a feeling of positiveness about people. It's a good-feel story.
The characters are warm & friendly (for the most part), they mean well (even if that doesn't always come across to others), they are doing their best under the circumstances of their lives. I guess, it's a book/story about everyone, about life.
I don't think any of us could answer the question of what is Joyce trying to say.
I suggest going over the previous posts and commenting on those; put the book aside for a day for this purpose. I think the posts will answer many of your questions.
Episode 10 is somewhat better. It is not so deep and we meet many different people. I like that part where Dilly is speaking to her father. As I understand it Dilly is Stephen's sister.
Chrissie wrote: "Petra, when is he going to be introduced and what is his name.......so I don't goof things up?! I am trying my best, but now I don't trust what I think I understand. I KNOW I don't understand everything. Thoughts versus what really happens can get confused and some of the references to literature go over my head. .."No, he's just Macintosh. No one ever speaks to him; he is just noticed. I think he's kind of a icon of "it's a small world and we're all connected".
Chrissie wrote: "I like to fall into a book and envelope myself in it..."I understand this completely. Ulysses is different, though. Read another book, then come back to this one. If you look at the dates, it took us about 6 months to read through Ulysses each time and often some of us were behind schedule.
The first time through is confusing. I have been lucky in having this group to discuss it with. Everyone picks up different things and we all discuss them and come away with a better understanding than we would have had we read it alone.
(I edited some of my earlier comments while you were posting, I think. Sorry. I was trying to answer all your questions in the best post)
No feeling stupid! LOL! We'd all have to feel that and I think we're all marvelously capable for making it through this tome with the wonderful discussions we've had.
Message 1879, really helped me, Petra. Thank you. And what you say about MacIntosh is interesting and so true.
Reading lots of comments is hard on my eyes.......
I hope it helped to keep you reading the book? There are a lot of comments and links. Maybe skim them until there's a topic that you find interesting and (hopefully) helpful?
I am encouraged by your lines. "There's a feeling of positiveness about people. It's a good-feel story. The characters are warm & friendly (for the most part), they mean well (even if that doesn't always come across to others), they are doing their best under the circumstances of their lives. I guess, it's a book/story about everyone, about life." I needed to have a reason to continue the book, and this helps me.
Now, I don't feel so bad about not understanding everything. I thought if I listened intensely I would. But here I quite simply cannot understand everything they are throwing around about Shakespeare.....for example. Too much for my head. You are right that in Joyce's time these considerations were not highbrow, but for me they are. Or let's just call them academic.
I am kind of stubborn....... I don't want to give up and maybe now with your kind help I can go on. I just do not want to stick in another book. OK, I will have to accept this is only my first reading, and it can only give me so much first time around.
Petra, I have to give you some hugs. ((((Petra)))))
That Shakespeare episode is brutal! I still don't get the point of including it. Who wants to listen (or read about) so much babble about Shakespeare??!?!!! LOL! In today's terms, there are still questions about whether Shakespeare wrote his plays or not....maybe in Joyce's time this and other questions about Shakespeare were in the forefront?
I've come to the conclusion that Joyce was an exceptional genius. He managed to read, learn and remember EVERYTHING and be able to put all the details together in a whole picture.
I didn't learn as much as he did and didn't retain ALL of what little I learned and sometimes I don't connect the dots to make up that whole picture.
For this ability, I call Joyce a genius.
....then he put that whole picture into Ulysses for the rest of us to scratch our heads over. LOL!
Chrissie, I've read Ulysses 3 times now and I've enjoyed it more each time, . To me, it's a sort of Everyman book. There are so many interesting characters that you just catch glimpses of . I always feel that there is an interesting back story for each of them, if we but knew it,
Petra, I have not doubt in my head that the book is exceptional and that Joyce was extremely talented .........but little old me has to understand it. These are two different things. The way the guy plays with words is amazing. It is almost a bit like reading poetry and that too is best not read all in one shot. I looked and checked. I have read about 1/3, not 1/2. maybe I will get to 1/2 and reconsider if I should stick in another book. I am just saying maybe though.In episode 11 there was a cool line: "It is in silence you feel you hear. "
And then he throws in funny light lines like: "Pat is a waiter who waits while you wait."
These are examples pf why I mean it is poetry.
Gill wrote: "Chrissie, I've read Ulysses 3 times now and I've enjoyed it more each time, . To me, it's a sort of Everyman book. There are so many interesting characters that you just catch glimpses of . I alway..."Nice you stopped by too. Thank you.
I understand what you are saying. I was just thinking similarly as you did but in relation to the son of Patty, the guy who died. He turns up off and on, and for some reason he makes me smile.
I really cannot understand what is going on with me and this book. Some points really annoy me, usually when I am having trouble figuring out what Joyce is trying to get across. But then he lightens the tone and gives us fun.
Joyce is intelligent and gifted without a doubt, but I have to see if I can understand what he is trying to get across.
Chrissie wrote: "I really cannot understand what is going on with me and this book. Some points really annoy me, usually when I am having trouble figuring out what Joyce is trying to get across. But then he lightens the tone and gives us fun....."LOL! I think this applies to all of us. :D
Petra, now I am much more positive. How will I feel after the next chapter is of course up for grabs. The things is I have SEEN how they change. Being told is not the same thing as having experienced it yourself. At least for me.
OMG, the chapter with the three girls, two small children and an infant on the beach is
hysterical
! How does Joyce manage to write so completely differently? And each so well for what he is describing.
I've just caught up with your posts Chrissie. Petra has given you excellent advice! I think on your first time through, you have to accept that you won't understand most of it, or be prepared to spend a lot of time thinking it over and reading notes. Either way is fine. It sounds like you enjoyed the Nausicaa chapter, it's a good one. If you want a very quick summary of each chapter, without going too deep, Wikipedia is quite useful for going over the main points. Spark notes is also very good for a bit more detail, without too much analysis. Next up for you must be Oxen of the Sun, where Joyce really shows us what a literary genius he wanted was. We get writing styles covering the past 500 years or so, parodying many famous authors works, but don't worry if you don't pick up on them all. I certainly didn't!
Pink, Petra has helped me tremendously. I have gone back to sections via message two. I had lots of trouble with Oxen in the Sun, even after you warned me, Pink, how Joyce is covering different writing styles. So that was really special for you, Petra? Gill, you weren't so comfortable with that episode either! I agree with you in your statement that it was too long....... BUT I am not getting discouraged. I have stopped with that.
Pink, I just checked out Wikipedia. WOW, seeing that one must marvel at what Joyce has done in Oxen. Thanks for the info.
Clearly, this is not a novel like any other! , My feelings toward the book reflect more my ability than Joyce's. Nobody can say anything other than that he is a master. If I end up not giving it that many stars it is simply b/c he is the master and I am not. I think you guys understand what I am saying here.
I am very thankful for all the help I am being given.
Only now have I read about 1/2 of the book. The last episodes must be very long since so far each audiobook chapter, of which there are 25, has so far corresponded to one episode in the book, which has 18 episodes. All of then so far have been preceded by music, as you explained, Pink.
I DO admire what Joyce has done even if my personal appreciation fluctuates.
Chrissie, you only have four chapters to go. Circe next, which is the longest of the book and broken into two, or maybe even three chapters on audiobook. What you'll miss from the page, is that this one is set out like a play script throughout. We have a lot more interaction between Stephen and Bloom and quite a few hallucinations from them both, so sometimes it's not clear what actually takes place and what's going on in their minds.
Chrissie, beware......Circe (your next chapter) is psychedelic, to say the least. It's fun, crazy, bizarre, hilarious, sad and full of hallucinations. ("beware" only because it's such a change in style; not because it's a boring episode, it's anything but that)
The men are drunk and they aren't seeing things properly. As Pink says, it's written as a play with many costume changes (hilarious ones) and strange discussions and actions.
This is a very long episode but a fun one.
I did like Oxen In The Sun. I think it's mainly because on my first read through Ulysses, I thought I "got" that episode more than others before it. Somehow, I found it more straightforward to follow and that made the episode stand out for me. I still like it but I like other episodes better now.
The beach scene was a good episode. I'm glad you enjoyed that one.
What did you think about The Wandering Rocks....the episode where we see many people walking around Dublin?
I'm really glad that you're enjoying this now. The first time I read the book, I gave it 3-stars, I think, for the same reasons that you have: Joyce may be a master but I couldn't keep up with him.
Reading over my first review, I mentioned that this is a book that is destined to get lower ratings on the first reading and probably higher on subsequent readings. That has turned out true for me.
Pink and Petra, right now I am depressed with this whole Ulysses thing. I have been listening to Circe for ages and I cannot stand it. So I went ahead and read what is coming up by looking at Wiki. I really am not enthused.
I liked the Wandering Rocks. The problem is that more of the chapters I dislike rather than like.
You say I am almost done, but I am not. I have ten God Damn more hours of this. I am NOT saying Joyce is a lousy writer, simply that it is too difficult for me. Or that I quite simply don't have the interest in working through it.
Right before I wrote this I decided to quit. I think it is pretty terrible that after listening to 17 hours and now with 10 hours remaining, I see no reason to continue. It flutters through my mind that I might miss a good chapter, but at this point I really do not care.
I am sorry but I get emotional about books. That is just the way I am.
PLEASE understand that I still appreciate all the help and time you have spent helping me.
Before giving up, maybe skip this episode and move on to the next? It may be that this style doesn't work for you but the next 3 will. You're so close to finishing. It's a shame to drop the book now that Stephen and Bloom have met.
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Am I supposed to go to the first thread linked in message 2 now or when I have completed the first episode? I don't recall it saying "episode one". I assume it will say when I have moved on to episode 2. The audiobook I have, narrated by Jim Nordan and Marcella Riordan, has 25 sections. So does the book have 25 episodes?