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Ulysses by James Joyce Readalong & Re-Readalongs (2014, 2016); Audio Listen-Along (2017)
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Pink
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Apr 11, 2017 10:46AM
Today, I listened to Nausicaa. Probably one of the more memorable episodes from my first time of reading. I still loved it, though being inside Bloom's head makes for some slightly uncomfortable reading and I'm reminded about things I don't like about him. Unsurprisingly, I'm still not such a fan of his masturbating to the sight of Gerty's drawers! Oh and why did he just make a mess of his shirt and not use a handkerchief or something? Now he has to walk home in his stained shirt, which will need washing, with all it's evidence on it. Though I suspect Joyce liked this messy aspect! I'm feeling less sympathetic about Molly's affair right now.
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I spent the afternoon listening to Nausicaa, and it remains one of my favorites. I had a huge laugh at Gerty ironing her underwear. The more I listen, the more I like this narrator. His baby talk was quite realistic.
I'm close to finishing Nausicaa.It seems that this entire episode is about Women, their wiles, their ability to seduce, their appeal. In a way, it's an episode revering women.....maybe.....or it could be a way of chastising them for their sexuality.
It's a very charming start with the girls taking care of the children. All of the girls are delightful, interesting, bright, cheerful, pretty.....you name it....they are positive in every way.
Then Joyce moves internally to Gerty's thoughts and they are wholesome (marriage, fashion, home) .....and then she begins to think more carnal thoughts and with these, her "wiles" appear and she shows her legs and knickers to Bloom, knowing all along what she does and her influence on him.
Bloom, as a man, kind of gets lured by the wiles.....in a way, he has no choice in his actions because of the woman. She used her wiles to excite him, yet she's not available to him; therefore, he must masturbate.
It's a bit perverse and I'm not sure whether this shows that Joyce sees women as a positive or negative in the lives of men. He starts off with a cheerful, innocent vision of women and ends with a siren who manipulates and uses to achieve an end.
Terri, are you listening to the audio narrated by Donal Donnelly? His narration of this episode is wonderful. He's been good throughout. I really like his narration.
From Schmoop:"Here's another question: is Leopold Bloom a loathsome offensive man? In the scene, he masturbates publicly while staring at a young girl. Because the scene becomes focused in on Bloom's perspective, it is easy to sympathize with him, but one should pause for a moment and consider how shocking it would be to see a middle-aged man masturbate in public. This is the most extreme instance yet of Joyce forcing us to accept our hero with all his faults. By now, we have seen Bloom go to the bathroom up close, release his gas as he wanders through the street, pick at his nose, and now masturbate. It's almost like a challenge from the author to the reader: "I refuse to idealize Leopold Bloom. I will make him entirely human. If you want to accept him and sympathize with him then you have to accept and sympathize with all of him." "
Petra, the version I'm listening to is narrated by Jim Norton. It's excellent. When it comes to Molly's part, the narrator is Marcella Riordan.
Your comments on how we perceive Bloom are cogent. Is he the earthiest character in literature? For me there is something endearing about him. At his core I think he's a good man, and a common man.
I listened to Oxen of the Sun this afternoon. I don't know all the literary techniques Joyce was using, but the language continues to delight.
Your comments on how we perceive Bloom are cogent. Is he the earthiest character in literature? For me there is something endearing about him. At his core I think he's a good man, and a common man.
I listened to Oxen of the Sun this afternoon. I don't know all the literary techniques Joyce was using, but the language continues to delight.
Terri, I like Bloom as well. He is, as you say, endearing. Throughout, he's done small acts of kindness, with no kudos or trumpet blowing. If his acts of kindness take root, they can change people's lives for the better (contributing to the fund for Paddy Dignam's family and meeting with ?, can't remember his name, to talk about the mortgage on Dignam's house). He thinks of Molly and things to make her happy throughout the day (the lemon soap...which he used, but still the thought is there....and the book he picks up for her enjoyment). He's a warm and friendly, perhaps loving, man.
Then he does the more base things. Joyce seems to be reminding us that Bloom is just an ordinary guy; he farts, he poops, he masturbates, he visits prostitutes, he fantasizes about women.
Perhaps because these things, if done, are usually done in private, they don't take away from the feeling that Bloom is endearing.
(masturbating on the beach is an except to "private"....that one is unusual)
I've still to listen to Nausicaa. My memory is that Bloom is quite a way from other people when he masturbates. Is that your impression, Petra, Pink and Terri?
Yes I think he's out the way, though I think Gerty knows what he's up to. Petra, I agree he's a very realistic character, warts and all. Which was probably quite unusual for the time. I'm used to reading books from this period and earlier, where men have affairs and visit prostitutes, just as an everyday occurrence. Bloom gets a little more gritty, especially with the descriptive language of bodily functions, though he doesn't partake in as much sordid behaviour himself.
I don't think this chapter, or any of the book is that graphic, you can almost miss the meaning if you're not alert, but this part always leaves a slightly sour taste in my mouth and also reminds me of Joyce's real life dirty letters to his wife, which were not as tame!
For some reason, I see him by a stone wall. I think that must be wrong because a stone wall on a beach would be close to a pedestrian walkway, which isn't very isolated. I don't see Bloom whipping it out in such a public place. He must be in an isolated spot. One day, I'll read a biography on Joyce. I really don't know much about him or his thoughts at all.
Gill, I thought as you did that Bloom was in a place off from the crowd. I got the impression that nobody knew what he was doing except for Gerty. (Perhaps they were looking at the fireworks.) I loved the Roman candle going off at the appropriate time.
I agree; despite being in public, it was a very private moment between Gerty and Bloom.
Perhaps we need some male input. I'd expect them to make a distinction between exposing oneself and masturbating about something/ someone at a 'safe distance '. I wonder what percentage of men have done that? I don't think it's something I'm going to check out online!
That could make for a very interesting google search Gill ;)
Ok I couldn't help searching, luckily it was a relatively safe search. Aside from flashing, which has several articles about it being a psychological disorder (one for our current non-fiction read?!) there's a lot about the prevalence of men masturbating in public. Several sites quote the figure as 40% of men who've done this at work, but I think this is in secret, not to be caught. The guardian also has an article about men who masturbate at women in public, which makes it seem like quite a prolific thing. I've had this happen on a train and been flashed at once too, so that's 2 incidents in my lifetime. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...I'm sure though, that Bloom wasn't doing it to scare Gerty, or be seen by others, though he might have got an illicit thrill at knowing Gerty was aware of what he was up to. Also, wasn't she putting on her own show for him? Leaning back so that he could get a glimpse of her thighs and underwear. It's all a little bit mucky, but I see Bloom as more distasteful than a sex pest. I'm judgemental of him, but not by the same standards of today. I think it's probably more similar to men having affairs or visiting prostitutes, which was once accepted as things they done in private, but mostly wouldn't be condoned or put up with now.
I'm not condoning what Bloom has done; don't get me wrong in that. However, in listening, I kind of see this episode as one of womanly wiles and their power to allure. Bloom might (if seen in this context) be the innocent "victim"; the man cannot resist the wiles and allure that the female puts out; he's a victim to the woman's power in this way.
Gerty noticed him, watched him, then lured him into masturbating by showing her legs and knickers...knowing all along what she does and what affect she's having. She enjoyed it as much as he did.
One thing I found interesting was the contrast between Gerty and her incredibly romantic views of what it would be like to be involved with a man (which in a way was giving her a romantic orgasm), and Bloom's much more earthy response. I don't think what she was doing was leading him on so much for the sex, as for a romantic thing.I also was impressed by, and saddened by, the juxtaposition of Gerty's romantic views of how love and marriage would be, with Bloom's views, especially on women other than Molly, and how as you get older you decline, and there's little romance there.
Terri wrote: "Gill, I thought as you did that Bloom was in a place off from the crowd. I got the impression that nobody knew what he was doing except for Gerty. (Perhaps they were looking at the fireworks.) I lo..."Yes, Terri, I thought the fireworks were great, especially in this audio version.
I don't even remember the bats when I've read Nausicaa previously. Any views on their significance?
No idea about the bats significance, but I expect they have one.
Yes, Gerty's thoughts are very romantic. She's young, inexperienced and only has romantic ideas of what love, sex and relationships are all about. She's got no real experience; just imaginings. Bloom is coming at it from the other end: middle-aged, experienced and a bit life-worn by dull jobs, the death of Rudy and the stagnation of his relationship with Molly.
Gerty's thoughts throughout were romanticized but she quickly saw that Bloom was interested and realized how to keep his attention. I'm not sure if she knew he was masturbating.
It is sad that Bloom has lost romance from his life. The romance doesn't need to leave just because we age and decline.
I'd forgotten the bats; meant to mention them. I don't remember them from previous readings either.
Terri, the fireworks were an ingenious idea. Joyce manages to hide the baser parts of Bloom in the world around him. Remember when he let out a long, loud fart just as a tram was passing by to hide the sound?
Pink wrote: "Ok I couldn't help searching, luckily it was a relatively safe search. Aside from flashing, which has several articles about it being a psychological disorder (one for our current non-fiction read?..."
I had 2 incidences of my own, both circa 1963 in a suburban town outside Chicago. I was 10 years old walking down the main street past a group of people waiting at the bus stop. A middle-aged (to me) man was exposing and fondling himself with a raincoat as a cover, which he skillfully pulled aside for a good view. My 5 year old sister was with me. I was scared out of my mind and this is the first time I've told anybody about it. The second time was a simple exposure when I was 12 taking the train into the city.
I'm halfway through Circe and I've found that if I feel lost I can still appreciate the language and the mood.
I had 2 incidences of my own, both circa 1963 in a suburban town outside Chicago. I was 10 years old walking down the main street past a group of people waiting at the bus stop. A middle-aged (to me) man was exposing and fondling himself with a raincoat as a cover, which he skillfully pulled aside for a good view. My 5 year old sister was with me. I was scared out of my mind and this is the first time I've told anybody about it. The second time was a simple exposure when I was 12 taking the train into the city.
I'm halfway through Circe and I've found that if I feel lost I can still appreciate the language and the mood.
I go back to work tomorrow so will be back to listening regularly.Today, I listened to the bit where Bloom's penis stuck to his clothing and he had to pull it away and it hurt a bit. Serves him right! I got a chuckle out of that bit.
Terry, I imagine that Circe will need attention to listening. Hope to be there soon. It's so psychedelic.
Terri, I dont think you're alone in your experience. It's awful really isn't it, such a simple act that gave some man a cheap thrill, but scared you into silence. I'm still listening to Oxen of the sun, but have taken a break for a few days as I found I wasn't concentrating on it. I'm in the early parts, where the language is still pretty archaic. I re-read notes about the different literary styles before I started, but I can't distinguish them very well while I'm listening.
I started listening to Oxen In The Sun on this morning's commute. It's hard going to listen to that archaic language at 6am, while driving on the freeway. On the good side: I recognized the section written in the style of John Bunyan!
I would have to listen to this again from the start to make sure but I think the audio pauses a tiny bit longer than necessary when the styles change. I'm not sure, though.
I'm finding Oxen very hard to listen to. I enjoyed reading it a lot, both times, so that's a bit of a downer. I guess the thing is if you want to distinguish literary styles, the best way to do it is when you're reading them not when you're listening to them. I'm about a quarter of the way through the episode, and considering whether in fact to give up on this episode and go onto the next one, Circe.
I'm now sure that there are pauses between the literary styles. I haven't been able to distinguish them through reading so it's kind of interesting to hear them now. I don't recognize the authors intended but that's okay.This is a more confusing episode to listen to but its getting easier as it progresses. Mrs. Purefoy has had her baby and it seems that arguments and chaos are happening in the beer-serving cafeteria.
Gill, perhaps the differences in recordings is affecting enjoyment of this episode? Not having listened to the version you're listening to I can't really say. The difference in length makes me think that a shorter recording can only mean faster talking. If this episode were narrated faster than what I'm listening to, it would be very difficult to follow because of the archaic language.
That could well be the case, Petra. Anyway, I've decided to abandon the Oxen episode (40 minutes in) and move straight on to Circe, the next one. And, I'm enjoying it a lot. Circe is the episode I found really difficult to read, but it's going fine for me whilst I'm listening to it. So I don't feel bad about abandoning Oxen!!
I've nearly finished Oxen, but my mind keeps drifting off. It's not one of my favourites to listen to either. I'll probably start Circe in a few days, I'm looking forward to hearing it.
Okay, those last 10 mins of Oxen were worth a listen, if only to hear the made up slang language being narrated!
I'm looking forward to that now, Pink. I'm still in rather old fashioned English but not archaic.
One thing that was surprising in Nauticaa was how long the episode continued after the fireworks. In my mind, it ended shortly after that. But on the audio, it went on and on and on.....over another disc worth's of narration. Interesting but surprising.
Yes I thought the fireworks came at the end of that episode too! I was surprised how long it went on after.
Same here! I'd forgotten that there was a long section from Bloom's point of view.
Does Bram Stoker get a mention in Oxen, does anyone know? There was a bit about the "murkiness of night" and the "bride of darkness", so he was brought to mind.
Didn't notice any Bram Stoker connection, but there could be! I think it's always safe to assume there's a connection to everything in this book!
Your final sentence made me laugh, Pink. So true!
I'm just listening to the bit where Bloom becomes the Lord Mayor of Dublin. I think its brilliant. I have no memory of it from reading it at all. When it comes to who is in the procession, there is another one of Joyce's fabulous lists. He is so brilliant with language isn't he?
He's a genius with language. I don't think I'd get through it otherwise, as I often have no idea what's going on, but even then I get absorbed in the lyricality and absurdity of the language. Which is handy, as I'm about to start buddy reading Finnegans Wake with another group. I've peeked at the text and I'm scared already!
Finnegan's Wake!! Oh boy! You're a brave one, Pink.
Petra wrote: "Finnegan's Wake!! Oh boy! You're a brave one, Pink."Eek! Gosh! How long will that take, Pink?
We're reading a couple of chapters a week, so about 2 months, maybe 3. I'll see how I get on!
Just finished Circe. I thought it was wonderful in audio, so much better for me than when I read it. I thought the encounter between Stephen and his mother was gruesome.
That's good to hear Gill, as we all seem to be in agreement about which episodes work best on audio and which on paper. I'll be starting Circe tomorrow.
I forgot to say that the end of this episode is beautiful. I forgot how much it moved me when I was reading it, and it's just as beautiful listening to it.
Pink, I agree that the end of Oxen is good. As the language matured, I liked it more. But, it isn't a favorite episode to listen to, sadly. Circe is fun so far.
The scene with Beagle Dignam with the Daschund coat was very Dicksonian (Marley's ghost at the beginning of A Christmas Carol). Very humorous.
I also liked the Chorus of Kisses that fluttered around Bloom.
As always, Joyce's lists are wonderful. I liked the 12 Worst Books.
Well I thought I just got to the end of Circe, but there was no musical interlude and it went straight into the next chapter. So now I know this one is split across two chapters because it's so long! Onto the next part :)
Pink, it's strange that you and I are listening to the same audio recording of this, and yet it's set out in a different way. There is no music at all between the episodes in mine. I can't remember what it was, but there was something else that was different between your version and my version as well. Maybe it was something to do with notes to go with it? Anyway, I'm motoring on with this. My copy is due back at the end of April, and there is no way I want to hang on another three weeks at this stage.
So, I've just finished the next episode now, Eumaeus. I enjoyed listening to this, in fact I ended up giving up most of things I was meant to be doing yesterday in order to get to the end of it. .
Petra, yes, the list of the 12 worse books was brilliant, I thought. In fact that so many brilliant lists in this book by Joyce. It's a shame that there isn't any way of just getting hold of all the different lists that you liked and look at them separately. Preferably listening to them!
I think the real brilliance of them is that the list often starts with pretty sensible things on it, and then just occasionally Joyce sticks in something that is completely ridiculous as if it's meant to be there.
There's no music! I can't remember what else is differenet. There aren't any notes with mine. Does it have the female narrator?
Pink wrote: "There's no music! I can't remember what else is differenet. There aren't any notes with mine. Does it have the female narrator?"Oh, ok, what did you mean about the musical interlude then?
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