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Ulysses by James Joyce Readalong & Re-Readalongs (2014, 2016); Audio Listen-Along (2017)
Thanks for the review by Paul Bryant, Pink. I've not seen that before. I found his comments on this chapter useful, and also reassuring!
Pink wrote: "Okay, what on earth does this even mean?An exquisite dulcet epithalame of most mollificative suadency for juveniles amatory whom the odoriferous flambeaus of the paranymphs have escorted to the q..."
Like I said, 'too clever by half'!
Only slightly?!
I've finished Oxen of the Sun, but most of it was beyond me. I did a fair amount of research. How in the world is a first reader to know that when Bloom is "smitten" by "a horrible and dreadful dragon", it's referring to a bee sting Bloom had received? (I'm not complaining and I enjoy the research, I'm just saying...)
One part I had to research, I ended up liking a lot:
And as no man knows the ubicity of his tumulus nor to what processes we shall thereby be ushered nor whether to Tophet or to Edenville in the like way is all hidden when we would backward see from what region of remoteness the whatness of our whoness hath fetched his whenceness.
ubicity: Latin root ubi means "where"
tumulus: mound of earth or stones over a grave
Tophet: in the bible, a place where children were sacrificed
One part I had to research, I ended up liking a lot:
And as no man knows the ubicity of his tumulus nor to what processes we shall thereby be ushered nor whether to Tophet or to Edenville in the like way is all hidden when we would backward see from what region of remoteness the whatness of our whoness hath fetched his whenceness.
ubicity: Latin root ubi means "where"
tumulus: mound of earth or stones over a grave
Tophet: in the bible, a place where children were sacrificed
Well done finishing the chapter Terri, I have about 5 pages to go! I agree it is fun doing the research and 'translating' what Joyce meant, but not so easy to know what he's going on about as a first time reader :)
Once I realized that I was (somewhat) enjoying Ulysses on my first read, I also had to rant at Joyce a bit about making such a good work so hard on the first time reader. However, with the re-readings, I'm really enjoying seeing, finding and recognizing the details that Joyce put into this book. It's like reading a new book every time in many ways.I'm still reading this chapter (about half way) and will be done today, I think.
"Then spoke young Stephen orgulous of mother Church that would cast him out of her bosom, of law of canons, of Lilith, patron of abortions,...."I'm always curious about Lilith, the first wife of Adam and Adam's non-existent past life. She's got a bad rap through history, if she's remembered at all. Makes me wonder what happened way back in her and Adam's day.
According to the footnotes, Lilith is Hebrew for "night hag", a female demon believed to have been Adam's first wife and she torments children and pregnant women.
That's a harsh historical sentence to carry.
I've always imagined that there must have been some sort of incredible rift that made Adam & his followers leave the tribe and start anew or made the other Leader & his followers leave the tribe. Either way, two tribes came into being that were enemies to each other. Lilith and her children followed the other group, leaving Adam.
Some loathing happened afterwards since Lilith was cut out so completely from Adam's life & observances. He started over. But what about her? She disappears into history, as well as her children, and becomes the tormentor of children and pregnant women.
We'll never know what happened to cause such a rift between not only man & wife but a tribe. I'd love to be able to travel back in time to find out what happened. It must have been remarkably big and catastrophic.
I still like this episode. It's fun watching the language change. It is difficult as well and parts of it are a bit tedious. I can't say I picked out many authors being parodied. Darwin and maybe Dickens, I think. Most of the medieval sections could have been Mandeville. I think one section may have been Defoe but that's because of the mention of the name "Moll", so I may be reaching.
What is it about the "Rose of Castille"? That phrase keeps popping up. I think I remember that it was a joke....a play on words.....when it was first mentioned but am too lazy to go back to check. I've seen it at least 3 or 4 times since then.
I also picked up on the return of MacIntosh. LOL! The funeral was even mentioned to take away all doubt that he's the same nameless guy.
Episode 15 (Circe): this is a long, psychedelic, crazy section that is 120 pages long in my copy. We'll be reading this Episode over 4 weeks with approximately equal sections. For the coming week (Apr 16-22), we're reading from the beginning up to & including Paddy Dignam saying "Pray for the repose of his soul".
CliffNotes summary & analysis:
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature...
Schmoop summary & analysis:
http://www.shmoop.com/ulysses-joyce/c...
The Sheila Variations:
http://www.sheilaomalley.com/?p=7626
Petra, I think Rose of Castile is a song. Not sure.
Gill, the Rose of Castille is an opera.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ros...
I've just finished my research for Circe, so I'm ready to dive in.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ros...
I've just finished my research for Circe, so I'm ready to dive in.
I'm going to read some notes about Circe today, ready to start the first part tomorrow.
Terri wrote: "Gill, the Rose of Castille is an opera."Ah, that explains it (maybe?)..... Molly sings opera.
Terri wrote: "Gill, the Rose of Castille is an opera.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ros...
I've just finished my research for Circe, so I'm ready to dive in."
Thanks, Terri.
Time for me to dive in also!
I had the most incredible and unexpected experience this afternoon. I started reading Circe, and I was entranced! I kind of knew what was happening, and I got the jokes! My husband is out of town this week, so I had the whole afternoon and evening for myself, and I just kept reading. I ended up finishing both this week's and next week's sections of text.
Most of my observations are for next week, but a few things I noticed:
-all the pig references
-when Joyce writes a list, you really want to pay attention to all the items in said list
-I loved the observation that Mrs. Breen "pisses cowily."
-I also loved that Bloom has different outfits for every situation--the descriptions were amazing.
-I can't remember where I read the term 'hypospadia", but, being a nurse, I know that this is a term for undescended testicles.
This episode brought to mind my experience with the Beatles' album Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. It came out in 1967 when I was 14 years old, and for my friends and me it was almost life-changing. For each cut of the record you have to suspend disbelief and go along with the show. That's what I felt I was doing with Bloom. It's like a circus or a carnival--you have to willingly let go and participate. (My husband is a musician, and music has always been a large part of our lives.)
Most of my observations are for next week, but a few things I noticed:
-all the pig references
-when Joyce writes a list, you really want to pay attention to all the items in said list
-I loved the observation that Mrs. Breen "pisses cowily."
-I also loved that Bloom has different outfits for every situation--the descriptions were amazing.
-I can't remember where I read the term 'hypospadia", but, being a nurse, I know that this is a term for undescended testicles.
This episode brought to mind my experience with the Beatles' album Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. It came out in 1967 when I was 14 years old, and for my friends and me it was almost life-changing. For each cut of the record you have to suspend disbelief and go along with the show. That's what I felt I was doing with Bloom. It's like a circus or a carnival--you have to willingly let go and participate. (My husband is a musician, and music has always been a large part of our lives.)
I love it! High five, Terri! What an amazing experience you had. I love your story. I'm so happy that you had this time of enjoying Joyce. Funny, that you mentioned Sgt. Pepper. Just this afternoon Circe had me thinking of Yellow Submarine and Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds. The weird, ever changing visuals of all three can only be experienced by freeing oneself and going with the flow.
Terri wrote: "I had the most incredible and unexpected experience this afternoon. I started reading Circe, and I was entranced! I kind of knew what was happening, and I got the jokes! My husband is out of town t..."Oh Terri, you're excitement about this chapter is really great! I'm so glad you're enjoying it.
Thanks, Pink! I feel like this is the chapter in which I fell in love with Joyce. :)
(The blind stripling and the man in the mackintosh are becoming old friends.)
(The blind stripling and the man in the mackintosh are becoming old friends.)
This seems such a straightforward read after the last episode. Not that I've got any more idea what's going on! I've only read this week's section yet, but I'm looking forward to the rest of the episode.
I am behind. I am still on the "Oxen of the Sun". I have started that chapter over a few times. I think i am now in a place to keep reading.
Petra wrote: "I still like this episode. It's fun watching the language change. It is difficult as well and parts of it are a bit tedious. I can't say I picked out many authors being parodied. Darwin and maybe..."
I also liked this chapter, after having read that it was one of the hardest. There were lots of jokes, lots of humour. And the changing style made the discussion between the young men, which otherwise might have been very boring, endlessly interesting.
Petra wrote: "Thanks, Terri! I meant to comment on that. I also looked up a Golliwog. I vaguely remember such a figure....either as a children's cartoon or in a children's story book. Here it is:
http://www.am..."
I'm still catching up with the discussion. I finally finished both Nausicaa and Oxen of the Sun, so I'm (nearly) caught up! About the golliwogs, here's an interesting fact I came across. That great band, Creedence Clearwater Revival was called, in an earlier version, you guessed it, The Golliwogs!
By the way, I think Nausicaa is one of my favorite Joyce chapters, just as it is one of my favorite Homer chapters. I found the whole discussion very erotic!
Cosmic wrote: "I am behind. I am still on the "Oxen of the Sun". I have started that chapter over a few times. I think i am now in a place to keep reading."We're always here to discuss any episode, Cosmic, so please continue to comment as you catch up.....there's not ever a time when we're ever "behind", really. Joyce has to be enjoyed at one's own pace and Life has a way of filling up our free time with other things.
Geoffrey, that's an interesting fact about CCR. Wonder where the name The Golliwogs came from. It must have meant something to them.
Cosmic wrote: "I am behind. I am still on the "Oxen of the Sun". I have started that chapter over a few times. I think i am now in a place to keep reading."Cosmic, my suggestion is (I'll say it quietly so the others don't hear!), if you realise you really can't get anywhere with this episode, then skip it and move on to the next one. You can always have another crack at it, next time we have a group read of Ulysses!
Ooh, I wasn't quiet enough, Petra!
Actually, Petra, I was wondering if the final sentence of my reply to Cosmic would give you food for thought!
Gill wrote: "Cosmic wrote: "I am behind. I am still on the "Oxen of the Sun". I have started that chapter over a few times. I think i am now in a place to keep reading."Cosmic, my suggestion is (I'll say it q..."
Well i set a timer for 25 minutes and pushed through!
I finished it. One thing that i noticed toward the end was that it sounded like boot camp...with a military sing song chant of the words. Did anyone else notice this. The reader i was listening to helped with this interpretation i am sure.
Gill wrote: "Actually, Petra, I was wondering if the final sentence of my reply to Cosmic would give you food for thought!"I was pretending not to see it, Gill. LOL! We're only just half way through this read......and planning the next????!!! LOL! We are cray-cray-crazy......
Cosmic wrote: "I finished it. One thing that i noticed toward the end was that it sounded like boot camp...with a military sing song chant of the words. Did anyone else notice this. ..."I didn't notice that, Cosmic. It's almost worth going back to reread the last section.
Congratulations for pushing through and winning!!
So as I was driving today, I found my audiobook version of Ulysses and listened to most of Nausicaa and some of Circe. I found this really interesting. When I read the book, I tend to skim through almost and then go back to read the parts I most liked. But in the audibook version, every word is given its full rate. The reading slows right down. I really liked this.So while I was listening to Nausicaa, some of the fleeting thoughts I had while reading it myself came back to me. I remember how much in love Bloom is with his wife, despite everything, Blazes and his own dalliances, he still so obviously deeply cares for her and loves many, many things about her, down to her smells, the ways she wears clothes, her care over her appearance, etc. etc.
Then Joyce has a lot of fun with his orgasmic fireworks display, not to mention his detailed laying out of Gerty's undergarments in the beginning of the chapter, all of which pays off later on. And this thinking about the other, Gerty about Bloom and Bloom about Gerty, while they quite consciously each share this forbidden moment together, it is priceleless!
I am also reading Reading 1922: A Return to the Scene of the Modern. Not sure if i have mentioned this before. It is really good. Helps you to see what was going on in the mind of the times. I just read about this book Babel. In Babel ..."The universal speech of the artists is anticipated and overwhelmed by the universal speech of money and manufactured objects, which bring along with their clarity a deafening conformity.
....page 60
...page 62
Ulysses is, on one level, an anthology of such mistakes (But there is also, even in the same chapter, a good deal of emphasis on radio linguistic deviation, on mistakes that seem to make the language nonsensical. But in Joyce mistakes are functional and revelatory.) , which begin to build up among themselves a parallel universe, peopled by characters like the non-existent Mr. McIntosh, who is brought into being by a misunderstood word. Joyce provides the most appropriate name for this process in "Nestor" when he refers to the "mummery" of the numerals and letters dancing across the homework of an incomprehending schoolboy (U, p23). "Mummery" is masquerade, deception, but it is also motherhood, as Gogarty suggests in the first chapter when he slides from "Our mighty mother" to "a lovely mummer"( U. p 5) When Stephen's own language begins to disintegrate under the influence of drink in "Oxen of the Sun", he remembers his father's fateful telegram as "Mummer's wire" (U, p347), a piece of mummery itself that merges telegraph lines and navel cord, motherhood, and the vagaries of mistyping. But "mummer" is also quintessential example of babble, the prattling syllables associated with savages and children. Out of this sort of random, nonsensical play with the lips, Joyce suggests, come entire orders of being untamed of in the actual world.
.....but Ulysses opens with one that has a particular historical and political character. When Haines, the British lifer, speaks Irish to the old milkwoman in "Telemachus", she takes it for French. The ironicies are fairly obvious: having expunged Irish almost literally from the linguistic map, the English now return to code their colonial subjects for not speaking an authentic tongue. "He's English, Buck Muligan said," with exquisite irony, "and he thinks we ought to speak Irish in Ireland" (U. p.12). Thus Ulysses begins with much the same gesture as The Wasteland, Prufrock and Other Poems, ironizing the idea of "echt deutsche," which has become faintly ludicrous in a time when great empires alter national boundaries almost at will. And yet there is also rather particular political pathos in the old milkwoman's taking her own language for French, for Irish could only become a political cause through alienation and rediscovery.. The Irish only come to notice their their own language and to value it as a form of national expression one it is imperiled by English. What the old milk woman accomplishes when she mispreceives her own language as foreign is a bit of Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus anthropology, which Joyce seems to suggest was not so much a specialized science as an everyday experience."
Reading 1922 p.63
Geoffrey wrote: "I remember how much in love Bloom is with his wife, despite everything, Blazes and his own dalliances, he still so obviously deeply cares for her and loves many, many things about her, down to her smells, the ways she wears clothes, her care over her appearance, etc. etc...."I agree. I think the love between Bloom & Molly shines through, even though it doesn't seem to be the center of the story (such as there is a "story"). Through all the pitfalls and mistakes made in the relationship, this one is......or could/will be; it's rather on a precipice.......strong and real. Perhaps Joyce is showing that all relationships can be at the precipice and awareness has to be with us of how much our significant others mean to us and enrich our lives.
I am really enjoying Circe.Joyce's parents were so loving, weren't they? I really liked how his father called him Leopoldleben. In German, "leben" means "life". Having his father call him "Leopold, my life" is touching. His mother has her potato talisman, the special good-luck token she gave to Bloom to keep him safe.
Trivia from Joyce's Dublin: A Walking Guide to Ulysses: - Joyce did not invent Bella Cohen; she was a real-life Dublin madam in 1904. Her real life address was No 82 Lower Tyrone Street but Joyce changed that to No 81 for "superstitious reasons" (wonder what they were?.....the book doesn't say)
- a visitor in today's Dublin should "exercise caution" when following Bloom's route from Amiens Station to where Bella's establishment was. "Although the brothels are gone, this is not Dublin's safest neighbourhood."
- the names of some of the streets have been changed:
Lower Tyrone Street is today called Railway Street
Mabbot Street is today called Corporation Street
Montgomery Street is today called Foley Street
Purdon Street and "Faithful place" (????) are gone
- Gillen's Hairdressers is now Connolly's Shoe Store
- Antonio Rabaiotti's fish and chip place is now Pantheon Café (but still a fish and chip place)
- Olhausen's Butcher shop is still there
- Tomas Cormack's pub (at the corner of Mabbot Street) is today called The Ramblers Lounge
- the place where Bloom's hallucinations start (O'Beirne's Pub) is today an empty lot
- the corner where Stephen encounters the English soldiers (near the end of the episode) is today "little more than a laneway, and the visitor should not linger on its lonely corner".
Petra wrote: "Trivia from Joyce's Dublin: A Walking Guide to Ulysses: - Joyce did not invent Bella Cohen; she was a real-life Dublin madam in 1904. Her real life address was No 82 Lower Tyrone S..."
This helped me a lot to visualize the place - it became quickly clear that the episode deals with the quartier, not just the brothel itself. I wanted to get a sense of what that neighborhood was like, and your brief notes gives me that.
One of the things I find interesting about the change in style is the life the dramatic form brings to the page. It seems there are lots of things going on, in and around the dramatis personae - reading the notes in italics fills in on these myriad details. It makes for fascinating reading, and contrasts with Joyce's heavy use of self reflection where the only action one can see is the one going on inside someone's head!
It's a fun little book, Geoffrey. It was on Amazon.ca for a penny. Well worth it. :DI like visualizing the places in a loved book, too. I'd love to partake in Bloomsday one day. I have a bad memory for names, though, so I'd have a hard time finding places without the guided tours. I'd certainly have Joyce's Dublin: A Walking Guide to Ulysses tucked into my backpack to help me along.
Petra wrote: "It's a fun little book, Geoffrey. It was on Amazon.ca for a penny. Well worth it. :DI like visualizing the places in a loved book, too. I'd love to partake in Bloomsday one day. I have a bad memo..."
I know what you mean. I've spent days walking through Thomas Hardy's Wessex... Some writers' work lends itself to that more than others.
I'm about halfway through Circe now. If I underlined everything I wanted to comment on, I'd have underlined the majority of the episode! Just a few comments: *I love that the Bloomusalem is built in the shape of a huge pork kidney
*Funny to me- the inhabitants are lodged in barrels and boxes, all marked in red with the letters L.B.
*The man in the Mackintosh is here again, this time springing up through a trap door
*It's a great list (Joyce is so good at these lists) of what Bloom's bodyguard distributes - Maundy money, commemoration medals, loaves and fishes, temperance badges etc etc
So much of this episode is so funny. I read some in a cafe this morning, and people turned round as I laughed out loud on several occasions.
So I was going to wait until I read the whole chapter but then I realized there is a reason the reading is spread out over several weeks! It took me quite a while to begin to make sense out of what was going on, even reading other sources to get hints. But now I'm enjoying it more, and less perturbed by the sudden shifts in sense and context. One of the things that confused me, but now I realize is just part of the fun, is that Bloom is simultaneously accused of being a cuckold and a seducer, to quote Joyce, "a well known dynamitard, forger, bigamist, bawd and cuckold"! I mean, really? :)
Geoffrey, I was sort of doing the same, kidding myself that I could read the whole chapter in one go, but I'm too realising why it's been split up. I'm finishing a couple of other books off today so I can clear my weekend to concentrate on it some more.
Gill, there really are a lot of interesting things happening in this episode. I also love the kidney shape of Bloomusalem.
Joyce's imagination runs amok in this episode; I am really enjoying the craziness.
In the segment between Bloom and Bello (when did Bloom turn into a "she"?), the notes mention Venus in Furs in almost every reference. This must be a parody on that book. Has anyone read it? I think I may add it to the TBR list.
This is really a great episode for getting to know more about Bloom that can be told in "one day". It seems to be delving deep into his psyche and past. I think the part where Bloom is a "she" is a emasculation of sorts. That sunk in when he was called a Manxcat. Ouch!!!
I've just reached where Shakespeare appears:(Stephen and Bloom gaze in the mirror. The face of William Shakespeare, beardless, appears there, rigid in facial paralysis, crowned by the reflection of the reindeer antlered hatrack in the hall.)
I love it! And I extra love it because Stephen and Bloom are gazing into the mirror together.
Working backwards through my notes, sorry!
I'm guessing the long hair that was on Blazes Boylan's shoulder, was from Molly.
When Zoe is reading Stephen's hand and says 'you'll meet with a ...... I won't tell you what's not good for you' etc, any suggestions what she's referring to?
Lots in here re Stephen breaking his glasses, he 'Broke them yesterday. Sixteen years ago'
What exactly does 'ineluctable modality of the visible' mean? Must look if up, I think I did so once before,
Such a Bloomlike comment 'That is one pound six and eleven. One pound seven, say'. And Stephen's response is priceless: 'Doesn't matter a rambling damn.'
I was surprised to read re Molly 'She scaled just eleven stone nine.' I'd imagined her as quite slight in build; mind you there have been plenty of comments from various men about her figure.
The man in the brown Macintosh is here again, this time he is named as Virag. Is that Bloom's father, grandfather??
The nine new muses number twelve. I like the inclusion of Seaside Concert Entertainments and Astronomy for the People!!
Once again, apologies that these are in reverse order, but then, what do you expect from things connected with Joyce?!
Gill, love your notes. I had marked some of the same things.
I finished the chapter yesterday, and I absolutely love this one! Once I started reading, I just wanted to continue. Here are some things I noted:
The 2 episodes for this week's portion in which we see Bloom with antlers, showing him a cuckold.
I loved the lines: (Florry whispers to her. Whispering lovewords murmur lip-lapping loudly, poppysmic plopslop.)
There's a reference to "the ass of the Dorans," and I discovered there is an Irish song called "Doran's Ass," in which Paddy Doyle gets drunk on his way to meet his girl, and ends up snuggling with a donkey. It ends up scaring him badly, and he marries her the next day.
Or how about when it describes Bloom as Goaded, buttocksmothered.
I think I said it before, but Circe is the chapter in which I fell in love with James Joyce.
I finished the chapter yesterday, and I absolutely love this one! Once I started reading, I just wanted to continue. Here are some things I noted:
The 2 episodes for this week's portion in which we see Bloom with antlers, showing him a cuckold.
I loved the lines: (Florry whispers to her. Whispering lovewords murmur lip-lapping loudly, poppysmic plopslop.)
There's a reference to "the ass of the Dorans," and I discovered there is an Irish song called "Doran's Ass," in which Paddy Doyle gets drunk on his way to meet his girl, and ends up snuggling with a donkey. It ends up scaring him badly, and he marries her the next day.
Or how about when it describes Bloom as Goaded, buttocksmothered.
I think I said it before, but Circe is the chapter in which I fell in love with James Joyce.
I've just reached the end of Circe. All hail, Joyce the Excellent! I'll try to sort my comments so that they are in the correct order for this final quarter of this episode.
Pink wrote: "I'm still going..."At least one of us is following the plan then!
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An exquisite dulcet epithalame of most mollificative suadency for juveniles amatory whom the odoriferous flambeaus of the paranymphs have escorted to the quadrupedal proscenium of connubial communion.
Joyce was clearly having too much fun with his own cleverness. THIS is why people are studying and debating it 100 years later, because it's just so hard!
I'm not even attempting to decipher this chapter, as it would take me all year to get through. I'm trying to let the language wash over me as I pick out words and phrases that I marginally recognise as English.
Feeling just slightly out of my depth, but that's okay! It wouldn't be Ulysses otherwise!