Ulysses by James Joyce Readalong & Re-Readalongs (2014, 2016); Audio Listen-Along (2017) Showing 1,151-1,200 of 1,985

[Cosmic]

Geoffrey wrote: "Cosmic wrote: "Petra wrote: "Gill wrote: "I could pretend it was a labour of love, but actually it was really easy to search for 'Gallagher' on my kindle! There is no mention of this name anywhere ..."

The first time i read it i was more than disappointed with it! Fortunately i turned right around and read it again, believing there was something wrong with me not the text.

I had probably recently seen an episode of the Keiser Report.
Where he talked about the market being a 'confidence game' or a 'con game'. They had to convince you by creating an allusion of confidence.

It was great timing really, because when i read the carousel scene...and the music that was playing was 'Smoke Gets In Your Eyes', i started reading the book as an allegory of WW2 or war or history...

Of course watching 39 Steps (Alfred Hitchcock film, Salinger favorite), and reading the book The Thirty-Nine Steps left no doubt that there was an elite education provided to those who were willing to work for it.

I really never thought war would be one of my interest or that i would read war related books. Thanks to the Catcher i have read a lot, including Ulysses. Ulysses it's also one of those books i would have given up on, but for this group i have been richly rewarded with this second read.

[[deleted user]]

I've finished Wandering Rocks and liked it very much. I didn't feel like I had to struggle so much, as I did in Scylla and Charybdis. I like seeing the characters through different eyes--the blind stripling, for instance. (view spoiler)[Stephen's sister Dilly was so pathetic at first, but then when I learned she bought a book with the money from her father, my opinion of her changed. (hide spoiler)]I'm not sure I would've known it was Molly throwing the coin out the window if I hadn't read it elsewhere. I'm wondering if I'm going to like Molly. She cheats on her husband, even flirting (or worse) in his presence. I'm anxious to see more of Bloom and Molly together.

The book has made me long to wander around Dublin on foot.

[Pink]

Terri, snap! I've just finished the same chapter and had much the same thoughts. It was an easier read than the previous couple of chapters and I liked how everyone connected, but l too needed to read the notes to pick everything up.

I'm looking forward to the next chapter, but I've just had a quick peek at Paul Bryant's review (which is an excellent chapter by chapter account of Ulysses, which I'm reading as I go) and I'm a little fearful that it's going to be a difficult one.

I'm so impressed with myself at having caught up this week and still participating. I wimped out last year!

[Angela M]

Pink and Terri , so glad you are both enjoying this . I was proud of myself too last year . I feel a bit like I've whimped out this time but as you know have had a number of family issues to deal with and just don't have the energy to tackle it again right now . I am enjoying the comments though and again so glad you are enjoying it! Terri , I'm with you - would love to walk the streets of Dublin!

[Petra]

I'm loving the wandering rocks as well. I'm behind because I can't renew a library book and it has to go back on Saturday. Bummer! I want to get back to Ulysses.

Pink & Terri, I'm so glad that you're both enjoying this and are sticking with it. It's always fun when someone enjoys this book.

I would love to be in Dublin on a Bloomsday one year and partake in as much of the Ulysses/Joyce-ness as possible.
Barring that, give me a good map and I'd love to wander around the streets of Dublin, too. A gorgonzola cheese sandwich in Davy Byrne's pub would be in order. :D

[Sean]

Hey guys, just started reading this the other day and I just finished episode 3 (Proteus), All analyses I have read mention that he pisses and I keep re-reading it to see where and I'm just not picking up on it, could you guys point me in the right direction?

Also Petra, I saw an earlier post of yours that mentions him breaking his glasses. when does this happen?

I feel like for every thing Ive been able to grasp theirs a handful of things that I haven't. I'm having a lot of fun reading it though and I think I'm in for the long haul.

[Petra]

Sean, glad you joined us and in it for the long haul.

I think the urination is the bolded part (I could be wrong):
- "better get this job over with" = hurry, before someone sees you in this public place
- "seesoo, hrss, rsseeiss, ooos" = is the peeing, I think.

"In long lassoes from the Cock lake the water flowed full, covering greengoldenly lagoons of sand, rising, flowing. My ashplant will float away. I shall wait. No, they will pass on, passing chafing against the low rocks, swirling, passing. Better get this job over quick. Listen: a fourworded wavespeech: seesoo, hrss, rsseeiss, ooos. Vehement breath of waters amid seasnakes, rearing horses, rocks. In cups of rocks it slops: flop, slop, slap: bounded in barrels. And, spent, its speech ceases. It flows purling, widely flowing, floating foampool, flower unfurling."

I originally read about Stephen breaking his glasses in a blog I had found (The Sheila Variations: http://www.sheilaomalley.com/?p=1177). The Sheila Variations helped me a lot on my first read. The idea was supposedly to show that Stephen wasn't seeing clearly, he was confused and unfocussed.
Since Joyce is so detailed, I thought there'd be some mention somewhere about Stephen breaking his glasses but there apparently isn't until later in the book.

Sounds like you're in the right group here: we all feel that for every thing we "get" there are a multitude of things we don't "get". That's Joyce.....and that's what numerous re-reads are all about. Hahaha......

Welcome!

[Geoffreyjen]

Petra wrote: "In long lassoes from the Cock lake the water flowed full, covering greengoldenly lagoons of sand, rising, flowing. My ashplant will float away. ..."

Gawd! I entirely missed this urination episode! I remember reading the Cock lake thing and thinking, ah huh, another seamy reference/joke, and I also remember looking up "ashplant" because it seemed to me that that is also a sideways reference to a penis, but I missed the urination completely!

The problem I have with the broken glasses is that it seems to me Stephen is seeing more clearly rather than less clearly, but I suppose that's not an argument against the broken glasses in Joyce's often paradoxical formulations.

Have poked my nose in the Sirens episode - yep, this one looks like to be a challenge!

[Gill]

I've read this as a prelude to the Sirens:

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature...

I'm raring to go!

[Petra]

I got a reply from Robert N who works at the James Joyce Tower. He took the question of Reverend Conmee's tram fare to a Joycean group he belongs to.

Their reply is:
"Ian Gunn referred me to a book about Dublin trams which was not entirely informative about the way the fares worked but did make it clear that the penny ticket was blue. I then did some more searching and found the Dublin United Tramways fares and timetables booklet for 1910 reproduced on the National Archives site. It makes plain that the fare from Nelson's Pillar in the city centre as far as Merville Avenue (the stop after Annesley Bridge) was one penny. It must have been clear to Father Conmee that the old lady had come from the city centre and was therefore at the limit of the penny stage. He himself, having got on after the Amiens Street station stop, also had a penny ticket but was entitled to travel as far as St Lawrence Road out near Howth. So he isn't a fare dodger."

(Ian Gunn must be one of the group members)
I think it's really stupendous that Robert and his group put so much time into the question. I'm going to thank him warmly for the work they've done. What a great group of people Joyce readers are!

Now I'm going to go back and see why Reverend Conmee knew that the old lady boarded the tram from the city center region.

[Sean]

Thanks for filling me in Petra :), That had been bothering me lol. I suppose it is probably a strange question but I have a feeling Im going to have a lot more lol.

[Gill]

Gosh, can you imagine living in Dublin and have such a geeky group of Joyce readers to belong to? I'd be in there like a shot! Thanks for finding out Petra and do pass on all of our thanks to them.

I wonder if it's worth asking them about the sausage shop?! I bet that one would be so easy for them to answer!

[[deleted user]]

Petra, as Gill said, we are all so thankful for this input! What a great group of Joyce readers. It makes me feel special to be joining such outstanding people in reading and appreciating Ulysses.

[Gill]

I've read the first five pages of Sirens now. I've no real idea what's going on. It's just nice to luxuriate in the language of it all! . I'm reading it out loud, and certainly getting some sense of the music in it.

I read somewhere that this episode is like the variations you get in some music on the theme. Eg The Goldberg Variations.The word 'bronze' seems to keep appearing throughout the text. Do you think that's the beginning of each new variation?

[Petra]

Doing some research:

- Bloom walks along Dorset Road, past Saint Joseph's National School, to Dlugacz's. When I googled Dlugacz's there was a note stating that this is one of the few fictional shops that Joyce put into Ulysses, so the name difference (Dlugacz and Gallagher) could be intentional
- Reverend Conmee walks along North Circlular Road. He passes some schoolboys on the road who are crossing from Richmond street. He then turns onto North Strand Road, where he's saluted by William Gallagher.

From maps, Dorset Road does cross North Circular Road but the Reverend was walking East of Dorset Road and going in an easterly direction (away from Dorset).
Bloom's path is less direct. It seems that St. Joseph's National School has moved location since 1904 because it is now located a long distance from Dorset and in a completely different section of Dublin. Since Dlugacz's shop is fictional, it's hard to say where along Dorset he was walking.
We know Bloom started at 7 Eccles Street but not whether he turned left or right onto Dorset.
If left, he could easily have walked to North Circular (about 3 blocks distance) and turned right, which would put him on the Reverend's route.

I plotted Bloom's (possible) route from 7 Eccles Street, turn left on Dorset, turn right on North Circular to North Road. From 7 Eccles to the corner of North Circular & North Road.is 1.85Km.
So, it is possible that the shops are the same but that's a bit of a distance to walk for a kidney breakfast (in today's terms, that is). On the other hand, it's only about a 15-20 minute walk, so very possible and maybe even likely.

[Gill]

Petra, you rock! Did you enjoy your research? (I bet you did!)

[Gill]

Here's a bit of information about the very first Bloomsday, in 1954. It also includes a very short movie clip of it:

http://www.openculture.com/2013/07/th...

[Petra]

I did enjoy it, Gill. {{sheepish & totally nerdy grin}}
We still don't have an answer to the question. I'm not sure what else to look for. If there are any other clues to add we might get further.
What I could really use is a good Ulysses paper map of Dublin. It's hard to find the streets and see distances/etc on-line. Plus, I'm a paper-person, rather than an on-line person.

As for the old lady & the tram, she had on her a shopping net and a basket. My guess would be that a bag in the shopping net had the name of a shop that was located in the city center printed on it and that Reverend Conmee saw the name of the shop.

[Petra]

Gill wrote: "Here's a bit of information about the very first Bloomsday, in 1954. It also includes a very short movie clip of it:

http://www.openculture.com/2013/07/th..."

Gosh, I hope to attend a Bloomsday one day.......

[Petra]

Also, according to the map, the Blooms lived across the street from the Mater Misericordiae Hospital. That surprised me because I thought of them in a completely residential area.

http://www.dublinmapped.com/?search=7...

[Petra]

Episode 11: Sirens
http://modernism.research.yale.edu/wi...

Early reaction to Sirens:
In response to (Joyce's publisher) Weaver's unenthusiastic reception of a draft of "Sirens," Joyce wrote:

I understand that you may begin to regard the various styles of the episodes with dismay and prefer the initial style much as the wanderer did who longed for the rock of Ithaca. But in the compass of one day to compress all these wanderings and clothe them in the form of this day is for me possible only by such variation which, I beg you to believe, is not capricious. (Letters 1: 129)

Ezra Pound, also in response to a draft of "Sirens," complained to Joyce that "a new style per chapter is not required."
- http://home.earthlink.net/~mdmeighan/...

[Gill]

No use for very detailed map work, but here's a straightforward map of what happens where:

http://www.irlandaonline.com/wp-conte...

[Gill]

Sirens episode: The first couple of pages are like a Prélude in a piece of music, or an overture to a piece of music. So all the phrases that occur in this prelude, occur later on in the rest of the episode. Now I realise this, I don't feel so bad that I had no idea what was happening in the first couple of pages!

Many of the phrases or snippets that come in the episode relate to songs or music that were 'popular' at the time. I guess it depends how many of the songs you recognise, as to how much of it will be easy to follow. I knew some of them but not many. Go with the flow I say!

[Petra]

Gill wrote: "No use for very detailed map work, but here's a straightforward map of what happens where:

http://www.irlandaonline.com/wp-conte..."

That's handy, Gill. Bloom didn't buy his kidney at Gallagher's butcher shop.
Besides that detail, it's an interesting map. Thanks for finding this.

[Petra]

I've been looking for the phrases from the first couple of pages in the text, wondering if those phrases were chosen for a particular reason. So far, there's no connections that I can see.
Other than that, I am kind of ignoring that first section and concentrating on the rest of the episode.

[Petra]

I haven't gotten far along yet and already there's a lot happening:

- Bloom merely passes by the pub and becomes an object of ridicule. The poor man isn't respected anywhere. I hope he didn't hear the maidens' comments.
- Simon Dedulas has a good relationship with the maidens and he feels really comfortable in this bar. It's a place he must frequent often and the relationships here are better than those with his family because......
- Simon is sad that others spend time, drink, talk with Stephen while he doesn't. He regrets the gap between them but not enough, it seems, to figure out how to close that gap. Or, maybe it's not a matter of the gap being unimportant but a matter of Simon not knowing that the gap could be bridged.
Another father-son relationship regret to add to the others in this book.

I'm enjoying this episode so far.

[Petra]

Oh, poor Bloom! This really is a gut wrenching time for him.

On the one hand, he mans up and follows Boylan to the pub. The other two times, he ducked away & hid but this time he somehow wants to face up to him.
But once in the pub, he can't get closer. He isn't ready to confront Boylan.
I really felt for him when Boylan left for the rendezvous and Bloom let out the sad sigh. He's hurting and all the songs being sung are about lost and/or broken love.
I have to say, I want to hug Bloom to show him some support. He seems so alone.

I am by no way getting a lot of this episode. There are large sections where I'm not at all sure of what's happening but I think most of it is about singing songs.

I'm trying to find the phrases from the first pages of this episode to see if there's a pattern.
The pattern seems to be that a phrase is entered mainly when a person enters or leaves the pub. The other phrases are about lust and/or lost love in some way.
Basically, at a change in the dynamics, a phrase is added to the first fugue part.
Not knowing much about music, I looked up "fugue". It's a 2-voiced composition with a theme.....which fits perfectly: Bloom, Boylan and the theme of love.

[Petra]

In the footnotes, it mentions that a Jingle is a 2-wheeled covered vehicle, so I looked it up and this is the sort of vehicle that Boylan is riding around Dublin in (I'm sure his is nicer):

[Geoffreyjen]

I lifted the following text from the Yale University primer for the Sirens chapter. I found this particularly helpful :

"the opening sequence of approximately sixty fragments as an announcement of the episode's interest in music, a sort of orchestra tuning before the imperative "Begin!" that starts the narration in earnest. But as each fragment save the last line appears subsequently in the episode itself, this section represents a dehydrated version of the episode, not unlike the fugal melody that dominates a counterpoint arrangement. As the reader reads through the episode, the nonsensical fragments reappear in contexts that imbue them with new meaning; the effect is to force the reader to flip back to these initial pages, attempting to discover whether or not they are in the right order, whether or not there is a system that can be set up for interpretation. In essence, this self-referencing, the building up of Bloom's personal connotations on the level of the word, is an excellent introduction to Joyce's overall technique in Ulysses, which is self-referential without having the enclosed, neat structure of the Sirens episode. More generally, the fugal construction of the episode is made apparent in the episode's predominant focus on the sound of Bloom's experience, using such techniques as frequent onomotopeia (the "tap tap tap"ing of the approaching blind tuner, the jingling of Boylan's keys), the juxtaposition of homonymic phrases, reduction of words to syllables, the recurrence of rearranged words, and identifiable fragments that the reader comes to look for, having realized the "pattern." The episode frequently alludes to songs from the period, drawing from popular operas, ballads, and folksongs."

Also, here is a text that describes the musical allusions throughout Ulysses : : Musical Allusions in the Works of James Joyce: Early Poetry Through Ulysses by Zack Bowen

[Geoffreyjen]

I noticed that several pages in, I suddenly felt, Oh, I know these people and this place, I know what is going on here! And then I thought... well, and the same is true of the text, after being completely derouted, I now feel I can make sense of the text. So it is a double revelation, and one clearly orchestrated by Joyce!

[Cosmic]

Petra wrote: "I got a reply from Robert N who works at the James Joyce Tower. He took the question of Reverend Conmee's tram fare to a Joycean group he belongs to.

Their reply is:
"Ian Gunn referred me to a boo..."

How fun and what a community has been created around the world around the book. Thank you for pursuing this!

[Petra]

Geoffrey wrote: "I noticed that several pages in, I suddenly felt, Oh, I know these people and this place, I know what is going on here! And then I thought... well, and the same is true of the text, after being com..."

LOL! My thought, too, at that point. It was all coming together nicely......then the second half of Sirens happened......
We'll have to compare notes later. I'm mostly lost. :D

[Petra]

Cosmic wrote: "How fun and what a community has been created around the world around the book. Thank you for pursuing this! .."

I think it's great to have such a group to belong to also. I wouldn't be able to participate much in such a group but imagine the insights that could be picked up. It would be fun to sit in on a meeting once or twice.

[Geoffreyjen]

So is there something going on between Miss Lydia Douce and Mr. George Lidwell?

Also, I noticed that contrary to my expectations, my attention didn't wonder so much in this chapter (the Sirens). Joyce gets us caught up in the tension between Bloom and Blazes Boylan on the one hand, and between the Sirens and the other customers on the other, so despite the challenges the chapter poses, we stay hooked (at least I did!... mostly).

[Geoffreyjen]

Petra wrote: "Geoffrey wrote: "I noticed that several pages in, I suddenly felt, Oh, I know these people and this place, I know what is going on here! And then I thought... well, and the same is true of the text..."

Yeah, I agree my attention did start to wander about 70% through the chapter lol!

[Petra]

Finished! I got a bit cocky at the beginning of this section because it was flowing and I was following along nicely. Then, after Boylan left, it got all muddy and confusing again. I wonder if Joyce meant that because of the muddy, sad, confusing triangle that was being played out.
Also, Bloom is going through some sad thoughts: his feelings for Molly, for Rudy, his thoughts on Margaret & that situation, what to write in the letter, etc.
It's all a muddy, confusion time. Why should we, as readers, get through this clearly? We also need to be confused and in muddy territory. :D

Geoffrey, I'm glad you mentioned Lydia and George. I'm not sure. I picked up on that but thought I was making it up. It seems maybe possible (as life is like that) but there's so much flirting going on in this episode that I was surprised that there may be an actual relationship going on between any bar patron and bar employee. But maybe?

I also got really caught up in the tension between Bloom and Boylan.
Bloom has avoided Boylan twice already, ducking into buildings so as not to confront him. This time, Bloom deliberately followed Boylan and got real close to him. Still no face-to-face confrontation but I think it's a big step for Bloom to face Boylan as he did. It gives hope that he'll one day actually confront him and fight for Molly.

Last time, I picked up on the big fart at the end of the episode (completely missed it the first time I read the book) and this time I noticed the multitude of tiny farts leading up to the big one. I got a chuckle out of how Joyce managed to "hide" those with his other word choices.

[Geoffreyjen]

Petra wrote: "Finished! I got a bit cocky at the beginning of this section because it was flowing and I was following along nicely. Then, after Boylan left, it got all muddy and confusing again. I wonder if Joyc..."

Mmmm, I did see the farts, although kinda subconsciously...

What I liked about this episode is it felt very much like Bloom "strapped himself to the mast" by sitting in that pub at the same time as Boylan did, and then had to deal with all the currents pulling at him! I noticed he started to make moves to leave the pub before he actually did... that follows real life, we all do that.

I'm looking forward to the next chapter, Nausicaa was always my favorite episode in Homer's Oddyssey. And a glance ahead is reassuring.

[Cosmic]

Just looked up for my information about whether Joyce was in the Free Masons. From there source:

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/fiction/joy...

This might also prove helpful:
http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/fiction...

[Cosmic]

I finished listening to the Sirens. I thought about how Bloom was is in advertising and he was coming up with jingles.

I also liked the quote "The hand that rocks the craddle rules the world". I thought about where is that hand? Did it get usurped?

Here is some history on that poem:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_H...

Poem is here:
http://www.theotherpages.org/poems/wa...

The ideom:
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/T...

[Gill]

I've still not finished the Sirens episode yet. I've been under the weather this week, and that's definitely not conducive to reading this book! I hope to be finished by the weekend.

[Petra]

I hope you feel better soon, Gill. Hot rum.....it's good for everything. :D
Agreed: Sirens is not conducive to reading when feeling under the weather. Oy!

I'm always thrilled to see a new post to this thread. We have the best ideas and discussions on a very confusing read.

Cosmic, I have a recording of Ulysses but have never listened to it. I really should. I've heard it sounds very lyrical.

[Petra]

I had mentioned to Robert that we were trying to figure out whether Father Conmee's butcher friend was the same butcher that Bloom visited that morning.
He replied by sending a copy of a page from his book on Ulysses (The Ulysses Guide: Tours Through Joyce's Dublin)!!! How thrilling is that?! A published Ulysses author took the time to reply to a random email from a stranger (group of strangers). I think that's rather impressive.

His book says this:
"....on the original door of 7 Eccles Street itself, which is on display not very far away in the James Joyce Centre in North Great George’s Street.
He crossed to the bright side, avoiding the loose cellarflap of number seventyfive. The sun was nearing the steeple of George’s church.
The cellarflap was a heavy iron disc in the pavement covering the coalhole, through which coal deliveries could thus be made directly from the street. Some of the older Dublin cellarflaps are particularly ornate and of various styles. St George’s Church in Hardwicke Place was designed by Francis Johnston in 1802, and Arthur Wellesley, the future Duke of Wellington, was married here in 1806 just before his involvement in the Peninsular War. The bells which chimed on every quarter hour of day or night have been removed to Taney Church in Dundrum, and the building, since relinquished by the Church of Ireland, is now the Temple Theatre.
Bloom approaches Larry O’Rourke’s on the corner, where he turns right into Dorset Street. Restored to its state of Edwardian elegance after years of scruffiness, the pub is now the Aurora gastropub and café. He passes the national school at No. 81-84, now a clinic for the Mater Hospital, and the birthplace of Seán O’Casey at No. 85, and enters Dlugacz’s, the pork butcher’s, between the school and Blessington Street. This establishment, of which no record exists, was apparently invented by Joyce, who mischievously named it after a Jewish acquaintance in Trieste."

Since Bloom turned right onto Dorset, the two butchers are not the same, as we rather figured.

[Geoffreyjen]

Petra wrote: "I had mentioned to Robert that we were trying to figure out whether Father Conmee's butcher friend was the same butcher that Bloom visited that morning.
He replied by sending a copy of a page from ..."

That book sounds amazing!

[Cosmic]

Petra wrote: "ICosmic, I have a recording of Ulysses but have never listened to it. I really should. I've heard it sounds very lyrical. ..."

I bought one from audible but i don't care for it as much as this free one:
https://archive.org/details/Ulysses-A...

I think when you hear it it will be a better experience! There are people reading different parts as well as sound effects. Making all those up in your head feels like sound gymnastics.

[Geoffreyjen]

I do think we are all doing rather well with this reading. It is a demanding book to read. You can't simply sit down at any old time and read it, it's not that kind of book. So you've got to organize your life around the readings, allowing for times when you can't get into it. Plus time to write out thoughts and ideas to share. I really do feel I get support from the group because I know everyone else is also having trouble doing this. We'll need to celebrate when we get to the end, all together!

[Petra]

I agree, Geoffrey, that this book is wonderful for reading in a group. Everyone brings their thoughts, insights and confusions to the table and it makes for good discussions and a deeper understanding (well, deeper than if reading alone :D ) of the book overall.

Thanks, Cosmic! I do plan on listening to it one day.

[Gill]

I've finished Sirens now. I enjoyed the musicality of it.

I like Simon D a bit better now, because of his singing. But really, definitely somebody who is all talk and boasts. I feel so sorry still for his children, from the previous episode. Actually, Stephen has 'bettered' himself hasn't he, when you look at how his siblings are living?

Bit of a diversion that! The part I liked best in this episode is the offering of and listening to the sea conch. It fits so well with the Sirens, and I found it completely believable as a link between Lydia and ?George? It took me right back to my childhood, and being given a shell to listen to, and being transported by the wave sounds in it. I never wanted it to end!

Yes, Bloom and Boylan. It seems like Bloom can't approach and can't keep away from him. Yet, although he has my sympathy over this, how come Bloom himself has been partway to an affair? Disloyalty in writing is still disloyalty.

I love the musical sounds, the part words and sentences and the way they are made to sound like parts of songs, the actual parts of songs etc etc. I got much more from this chapter second time round.

And, yes Geoffrey, how good it is to be reading and discussing this as a group.

[Geoffreyjen]

I was reading back over the discussion during the 2014 reading you guys did of Ulysses. I picked up a few things that I found really interesting. One was the McCann interview which I loved. McCann talks about how Joyce was influenced by Gerard Manley Hopkins, which I quite understand. Hopkins is one of my favorite poets, too. Hopkins did remarkable things with the rhythms of English in metric rhyming, breaking it up into something much more contemporary in expression while still embedded in a classical form (the sonnet, for example). Joyce, in some ways, broke up another classical form (the novel) within an expressive voice with all sorts of changes in rhythm, so not so different.

And McCann also talked about another great poet, Welsh not Irish, Dylan Thomas, also a favourite of mine. Thomas worked with the paradoxes around life and living in ways that echo Joyce's work too. When I listen to Joyce I can almost hear Dylan Thomas...

I was also thinking about the parallel between Bloom and Ulysses. Ulysses, in The Odyssey, is a very canny person, crafty... he was the one who dreamed up the wooden horse after all. He was also "manly", a big man, remember he could draw a bow that no one else could manage. Bloom isn't quite like that, but the mirroring between the two allows us to see Bloom as someone who, on the inside may be closer to the heroic ideal than he is on the outside. In any case, the parallel is generous towards Bloom, and I think Joyce wanted us to feel generous towards Bloom.

By the way, I think it would be nice to centralize in one place all the interesting side links that both discussions have proposed - it makes for a very useful list of relevant sites to understanding Joyce - perhaps with a few words about what each site is about... Could be put into Post #1, Petra. Sorry to send work your way, you are already doing an amazing job keeping us going on our trek!

[[deleted user]]

I've also finished Sirens, and it's my favorite episode so far. The discussion has helped me immensely. (I'll say it again, I'd never be able to do this without the group support!) I had read about the introductory phrases being repeated in the text, and got a little lost trying to trace them all. I just loved the musicality. I've listened a bit to an audiobook version--mine has a single narrator, but it's still glorious to hear the words aloud.

[Pink]

I'm halfway through sirens, it's been a busy week with no reading done since Monday, but hopefully I'll finish this afternoon after I get back from a Sunday roast, so I'll catch up with all the comments later.