All About Books discussion
Readalongs
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Ulysses by James Joyce Readalong & Re-Readalongs (2014, 2016); Audio Listen-Along (2017)
Gill wrote: "This is from near the end of the episode:A man passed out between them, bowing, greeting.
- Good day again, Buck Mulligan said
Is the man Bloom?."
I think it is.
The man passes just as Stephen is wondering whether he should follow Buck and, if not, where he might go. He's floundering with direction....and then the man passes by. Bloom is Stephen's salvation, and here he passes so close, giving Stephen that opportunity of a choice (of sorts....it's hard to see a stranger as an opportunity).
A couple of other phrases that stood out:Meinherr from Almany - a reference to Freud; hence a psychiatrist:
"let some Meinherr from Almany grope hs life long for deephid meanings in the depth of the buckbasket." (buckbasket = washtub; dirty, soapy, brackish depths?)
Lubber - a big, clumsy, stupid fellow who lives in idleness; reference to Buck Mulligan. (LOL)
French Triangle - an arrangement in which 3 people live together, usually consisting of a husband, his wife and the lover of one of these
And, after all this talk and "yapping".......Stephen doesn't believe what he's been saying???!!!???!
Gill wrote: "I've succumbed and bought Inventing Ireland.It will fit nicely with this Ulysses readalong."
What a pain. There are a lot of quality issues with the ebook version of this one. So I've had to return it for a refund. It obviously was not meant to be!
Another thought on Scylla and Charybdis. I've read a couple of plays by J.M. Synge, for the seasonal drama theme of Irish playwrights. So it was interesting to have mentioned in this discussion. And also, Mulligan does a bit of a take-off of Synge's play dialogue here, copying Synge's version of Western Ireland speech.There are several of Joyce's contemporaries as characters in the book, aren't there?(both by actual name and by pseudonym) I wonder how they felt about it.
Terri wrote: "I'm about to start Lestrygonians. My pattern has been to read the assigned pages on Monday and Tuesday, and then use the rest of the week to reread and do some research. (I use the Joyce Project we..."Terri, I do wish I could organise my reading and following a bit better, like you do. I've used the Joycenotes for the first time with Episode S and C. I found them really interesting, I was bit reluctant at the start, because there were so many notes, but there are a smaller number each episode now. I think I'll look at them each episode now.
Gill, I'm lucky to have the freedom and the health to maintain this schedule right now. At first I didn't know it would take so much time, but I'm enjoying it so much I don't mind letting other things slide. I could never do it without the support of this group!
I'm going a bit slower with Scylla and Charybdis. I'm doing my second reading tonight.
It occurred to me that those of you who have read this before are seeing Stephen and Bloom's relationship for more than I can appreciate at this point.
I'm going a bit slower with Scylla and Charybdis. I'm doing my second reading tonight.
It occurred to me that those of you who have read this before are seeing Stephen and Bloom's relationship for more than I can appreciate at this point.
Terri, I went through our comments on this episode from last year's read. I was struck at how much more we observed this year as well. This truly is a book where one sees more each time one reads it. Sadly, I don't think many people read it more than once and many more shun it completely. That's one of my pet peeve's with Joyce about this book: he wrote a brilliant book but in such a way that even avid readers often avoid it. I'm sure he wanted his book read. Are we, as readers, less astute than the readers of the 1920s? Do we lack the concentration required for such a book? Or was this book as convoluted for the readers of the 1920s?
Petra wrote: "Terri, I went through our comments on this episode from last year's read. I was struck at how much more we observed this year as well. This truly is a book where one sees more each time one reads i..."Convoluted is an understatement. I am going through with this because I promised myself, but I am not really enjoying the book at all. Yes, Joyce was all-knowing and very clever, but as he wrote, each of his books just got more "convoluted". I will never even try Finnegan's Wake.
This is interesting: images, through postcards, maps, illustrations, etc, related to Ulysses:http://joyceimages.com/
Nancy, I'm glad that you are still reading Ulysses. Where are you in the book so far? What are your thoughts on it? I find there are episodes that are quite absorbing, others that aren't. Maybe the episode you find absorbing is still coming up?
My favorite is still the one where language matures and develops. That was the episode where I first thought that I might like this book. Reading this the first time was frustrating for me and that one episode showed me that it could also be fun, interesting and absorbing.
I now have more favorite episodes but this one always stands out to me for being my turning point with the book.
Don't hesitate to voice your frustrations here. Sometimes that really helps. Venting gets the frustrations out of the way and (maybe) the story will become less convoluted, if only for a moment or two? :D
Okay, I'm pretty well caught up now. Read Lestrygonians Friday and Scylla and Charybdis today, and have started into the Wandering Rocks. I loved both chapters, but for very different reasons (hardly surprising)! First, the Lestrygonians :Although the general link to Homer's Odyssey is obvious, the Lestrygonians as cannibals, I found fewer direct references to Homer's text. Also, however, everyone remarks on the obvious and ubiquitous references to food in the chapter, but as a fashion buff, I found that a strong second theme that ran through the entire chapter were references to appearances and fashion. This does make sense in Homerian terms - the Lestrygonians were ungainly giants as well as flesh eaters in Homer's story. Here are a number of examples :
“Molly had that elephantgrey dress with the braided frogs. Mantailored with selfcovered buttons. She didn't like it because I sprained my ankle first day she wore choir picnic at the Sugarloaf. As if that. Old Goodwin's tall hat done up with some sticky stuff. Flies' picnic too. Never put a dress on her back like it. Fitted her like a glove, shoulders and hips. Just beginning to plump it out well. Rabbit pie we had that day.”
“Remember her laughing at the wind, her blizzard collar up.”
“Same blue serge dress she had two years ago, the nap bleaching. Seen its best days. Wispish hair over her ears. And that dowdy toque: three old grapes to take the harm out of it. Shabby genteel. She used to be a tasty dresser.”
“Tight as a skullpiece a tiny hat gripped his head. From his arm a folded dustcoat, a stick and an umbrella dangled to his stride.”
“Denis Breen in skimpy frockcoat and blue canvas shoes shuffled out of Harrison’s”
“O yes! Mrs Miriam Dandrade that sold me her old wraps and black underclothes in the Shelbourne hotel.”
“Hotblooded young student fooling round her fat arms ironing.
— Are those yours, Mary?
— I don't wear such things... Stop or I'll tell the missus on you.”
“Charley Boulger used to come out on his high horse, cocked hat, puffed, powdered and shaved.”
“Three Purty Maids from School. How time flies, eh? Showing long red pantaloons under his skirts. Drinkers, drinking, laughed spluttering, their drink against their breath. More power, Pat. Coarse red: fun for drunkards: guffaw and smoke. Take off that white hat. His parboiled eyes.”
“Muslin prints, silkdames and dowagers, jingle of harnesses, hoofthuds lowringing in the baking causeway. Thick feet that woman has in the white stockings. Hope the rain mucks them up on her. Countrybred chawbacon. All the beef to the heels were in.”
“He passed, dallying, the windows of Brown Thomas, silk mercers. Cascades of ribbons. Flimsy China silks. A tilted urn poured from its mouth a flood of bloodhued poplin: lustrous blood.”
****
Also, I found Joyce's discussion of parallax interesting. Near the beginning of the chapter, he states:
"Fascinating little book that is of sir Robert Ball's. Parallax. I never exactly understood. There's a priest. Could ask him. Par it's Greek: parallel, parallax."
So he is drawing parallels - of course the whole book (Ulysses) is about that - parallels between Homer's story and his, between Stephen and Bloom, but in this chapter also between food and appearance.
And then, near the end of the chapter, he brings up the subject again : "Not go in and blurt out what you know you're not to: what's parallax?" Parallax, as opposed to parallel, is not just two things in relation to each other, but a means of estimating distance. Joyce knew about these things - he knew about Einstein's relativity theory, and he probably knew something about the use of parallax to make measurements of distance.
****
Now onto Scylla and Charybdis.
This chapter is startling in many ways. It shifts the ground of the story, from Bloom back to Stephen, and from earthy observation to the intellectual sphere. The language also shifts into passages of runtogetherwords that slideabout, the whirlpool I think (Charybdis), juxtaposed (parallax again) with intellectualising, the many tentacled beast (Scylla). The chapter is Joyce's way of laughing at himself as he spells out the themes of his own work, in complex ways that aren't easily reducible to simple arguments. The father that is the son, that is pregnant with the self, these are versions of transmigration, which Joyce also mentions, the union of flesh and spirit. Lovely, lovely.
Even the near encounter between Bloom and Stephen is parallax at work. Scylla and Charybdis, in Homer's story, is about slipping between the two monstrous elements, and here Bloom slips past them all!
"Boccaccio's Calandrino was the first and last man who felt himself with child. Fatherhood, in the sense of conscious begetting, is unknown to man. It is a mystical estate, an apostolic succession, from only begetter to only begotten. On that mystery and not on the madonna which the cunning Italian intellect flung to the mob of Europe the church is founded and founded irremovably because founded, like the world, macro and microcosm, upon the void. Upon incertitude, upon unlikelihood. Amor matris, subjective and objective genitive, may be the only true thing in life."
One of the things that is remarkable about Joyce's writing is that there is so much back reference that each reader will pick up on very different elements - hence each reading is singular. Convoluted, yes, but also singular. Another reason to love it.
Petra wrote: "Nancy, I'm glad that you are still reading Ulysses. Where are you in the book so far? What are your thoughts on it? I find there are episodes that are quite absorbing, others that aren't. Maybe th..."
Petra, thanks for the encouragement. I am about to begin The Wandering Rocks. I really have no excuse for not "getting" it. I have the audiobook, beautifully narrated by Jim Norton, which I listen to as I read. Actually I find this a great help. Then I do have Ulysses Annotated by Gifford which I refer to only occasionally as I find it a little overwhelming with the amount of information it has to offer. Then I have James Joyce's Ulysses by Stuart Gilbert which I use to review the episode before I read it. I think the story in general just doesn't "grab" me. I find my mind wandering (just like the rocks) very much like when I'm trying to pay attention to a very boring sermon. Then I have to go back and start all over again. However, I admit the limitations are all mine, and I WILL finish the book at least once. I feel that this is my "have to read" book and when I've read an episode I can get back to reading the book that really excites me right now which is The Covenant by Michener, the first book on Africa, about which my book club will be reading for the next year or so (so much ground to cover!).
Nancy wrote: "Petra wrote: "Nancy, I'm glad that you are still reading Ulysses. Where are you in the book so far? What are your thoughts on it? I find there are episodes that are quite absorbing, others that ar..."
I don't think you should feel the wandering attention is just you, Nancy. Even though I enjoy the book immensely, my attention wanders just as much. I find it takes a particular state of mind to read it - some days I try and I just skip off the surface and can't make any headway at all. And then I'll come back to it another time and I plunge in and whiz through. But it is always a challenge to read with attentiveness, without my mind wandering off into tangents. I think the writing itself does this to us. Whenever we do engage, he throws in a right angle turn and we lose hold again.
Geoffrey wrote: "And then, near the end of the chapter, he brings up the subject again : "Not go in and blurt out what you know you're not to: what's parallax?" Parallax, as opposed to parallel, is not just two things in relation to each other, but a means of estimating distance. Joyce knew about these things - he knew about Einstein's relativity theory, and he probably knew something about the use of parallax to make measurements of distance...."I'm glad you mentioned the many instances of "fashion" used in Lestrygonians, Geoffrey. Fashion was woven throughout.
It struck me that Bloom was a bit of a prig when it comes to women and dressing. He more than once commented about hosery wrinkling about the ankles and how distasteful that was. :D
I also found the idea of Parallax interesting. To me, it seemed more of a concept of seeing the same thing from a different angle, which changes the thing by showing us different sides. In the case of Lestrygonians, it depends on where you stand in life (what your background, upbringing, outlook is) as to what you see and how you react.
....although I can't think of any examples at the moment.
Agreed: Joyce would have known about parallax, Einstein's theory and so much more. He was one smart dude!
Geoffrey wrote: "The language also shifts into passages of runtogetherwords that slideabout, the whirlpool I think (Charybdis), juxtaposed (parallax again) with intellectualising, the many tentacled beast (Scylla). The chapter is Joyce's way of laughing at himself as he spells out the themes of his own work, in complex ways that aren't easily reducible to simple arguments. The father that is the son, that is pregnant with the self, these are versions of transmigration, which Joyce also mentions, the union of flesh and spirit. ..."I like this. It's not enough to make me reread this episode but it's close to doing that.... :D
Nancy, Geoffrey said it best. This book needs a special attention that we can't always give it. However, that's okay, too. We can read and just get out of it what we will, without the added research and digressions. (those can come with the next few readings.... :D )You're doing an extensive read for the first time. That's pretty darn impressive. I barely read through it the first time and it took a good group to keep me at that and help me see the genius of the book (even if I didn't get a lot of it at the time).
I have an audible recording of the book that I've never listened to. I think I'm almost ready to listen to it one day. I wanted a firm base before listening to Irish brogue and Joycean English & writing. I've heard that this story lends itself well to audio versions.
I came across this interesting cartography of Joyce's Ulysses, not sure if it has been mentioned anywhere : Dislocating Ulysses
I've just started reading the Wandering Rocks episode. This was my favourite episode last time, and this time I am adoring it. It feels like Joyce shows all his excellence as a writer in this episode, without trying to grind our noses into how 'clever' he is.The big thing plot/philosophy wise that I like here is: in the book you can experience Stephen/Bloom as showing the ordinary person on their Odyssey and you can take it as we the reader being on our own journey/Odyssey. In this episode we see that you can take every single person as being on a journey, and it depends who's to the forefront as to what perspective you have on what's happening. I love it!
Re the Reverend John Conmee (view spoiler)
Episode 10 (The Wandering Rocks)Composed exclusively of nineteen short vignettes that feature collectively nearly all of the characters of Ulysses, this tenth of Joyce’s eighteen episodes “is both an entr’acte between the two halves and a miniature of the whole”.
Two complementary journeys “by the representatives of ecclesiastical and civil authority respectively” open and close the episode, and Joyce peppers the other seventeen sections with references to their progress.
This dichotomous structure is belied by a number of other interpolated incidents “that are temporally simultaneous but spatially remote” from the vignettes in which they occur. While some of these intrusions relate to happenings from other episodes—the aquatic voyage of the “crumpled throwaway, Elijah is coming” from the beginning of “Lestrygonians,” for instance, or the trudging walk of the “two old women” from Stephen’s vision in “Aeolus”—most point to other sections of “The Wandering Rocks”. This “labyrinthine” technique cultivates a sense of “The Hostile Environment”.
Episode 10 is the only episode in Ulysses without a direct Homeric parallel. The Wandering Rocks appear in The Odyssey only third-hand, in Odysseus’ recount to the Phaeacians of Circe’s presentation of the two routes back to Ithaca: the course through the “Prowling Rocks, or Drifters,” “whose boiling surf, under high fiery winds,/carries tossing wreckage of ships and men” and the path between Scylla and Charybdis (XII.74, 83-4).
Since Odysseus opts for the latter path, which Joyce traces in episode 9, “The Wandering Rocks” alludes to the road not taken in Homer’s epic. Though Ulysses here diverges from the plot of The Odyssey, Homer still furnishes Joyce’s fundamental inspiration for this episode—a decentralized, disjointed portrait of Dublin’s “tossing wreckage of…men.”
- https://modernism.research.yale.edu/w...
Gill, (view spoiler)Okay....it's settled. I am starting The Wandering Rocks tonight. I want to read the Reverend's vignette.
Petra wrote: "Gill, I've looked up a few things and its confusing........."Not sure if this helps - here is a web site that locates the Newcomen Bridge : Newcomen Bridge - just zoom out to see where it is located within the city.
It's interesting that Joyce reverts to a kind of more traditional writing style when he no longer has to present his story from the point of view of either Stephen or Bloom. In fact, the two passages in the Wandering Rocks which deal more directly with Stephen both return to the convoluted style that characterizes his writing about Stephen. I also find it fascinating the way he repeats certain sentences so that he can tie down the timings of scenes from different character's perspectives. It has been said that the single most defining characteristic of the novel format is that it allows the reader to keep track of spatially distinct events that happen simultaneously (as opposed to the pre-novel writing forms of letters and diaries which cannot address simultaneity in the same way). There is something remarkably "relativistic" about the way Joyce treats space and time in this chapter.
Nancy, it sounds like you're doing very well to me, especially as you're not enjoying it. It can be hard going when we don't like what we're reading, but I think this is one to slog through to the end. This is my first time as well, but I'm enjoying it, even though I don't understand most of the hidden meanings. I've been following all the comments above, but don't have anything to add I'm afraid as I'm still playing catch up, just about to start Scylla.
Geoffrey wrote: "It's interesting that Joyce reverts to a kind of more traditional writing style when he no longer has to present his story from the point of view of either Stephen or Bloom. In fact, the two passag..."I read somewhere that two of the interjections/repetitions are 'false' in terms of time/space. I haven't spotted them though. Yes, I really enjoyed these links between the characters.
Petra wrote: "This is interesting: images, through postcards, maps, illustrations, etc, related to Ulysses:http://joyceimages.com/"
I've just been looking through this for the current episode, Petra. It's very interesting. Thanks a lot!
Some time earlier, Petra, you were asking whether we thought that this book was more difficult for us to read than it would've been for people at the time. I thought about that a bit, and I suppose my question is a slightly different one. Does anyone know how well read it was in the decades after it was published? And who were the people who were reading it? My impression has always been that it never had a large audience. But I really don't know about that one way or the other.
I think one advantage we have in reading this, over people at the time, is that we are much more used to a variety of structures for books. Stream of consciousness and inner thoughts do not seem unusual to us. I would imagine for readers at the time they seemed quite strange.
I finished Scylla and Charybdis and I'm not even going to pretend that I understood what was happening. Now I'm going to read through the previous discussion here and look at some notes to see if things make a bit more sense. All I got was there was a lot of contemplation about Shakespeare.
Pink wrote: "I finished Scylla and Charybdis and I'm not even going to pretend that I understood what was happening. Now I'm going to read through the previous discussion here and look at some notes to see if t..."If you find out what's going on, you can explain it to me, Pink!
Haha, so you mean it's not just me then?!?
Haha, so you mean it's not just me then?!?
I'd like to know, too, Pink. There was a lot about Shakespeare.... and Anne Hathaway.
Gill, that's an interesting question, too. Somewhere, a long while back, I thought I read that Ulysses was well read after publication and that people thought it a fun, wild book....which made me think that they may have understood it more in the first reading than I did (I never caught one joke....not even the huge fart joke).
Maybe Ulysses was never that well read. Interesting question.
I wrote to Joyce Tower in Sandycove to ask them your question, Gill (which I gave you credit for in an anonymous, no-names mentioned way). Someone wrote back to say that he belonged to a Joycean group and he'll ask them the question. Don't know if we'll hear back but it would be interesting if we did.
Thinking about it, it's also possible that the Reverend got too much change back for a ticket that cost more than a penny. The old lady's ticket colour isn't mentioned. Maybe a blue ticket is more than a penny ticket?
I had fun with that tram map and wish I'd found a better copy of one with more detail.
Man.....this is Stephen's eyeglasses all over again! Another rabbit hole!....... I don't go looking for them but they are fun to go down when found.
UPDATE: the reply from the Joycean group is in Post 1160)
Petra wrote: "I'd like to know, too, Pink. There was a lot about Shakespeare.... and Anne Hathaway."What I got from the discussion about Shakespeare was that it was, at least in part, about the question of whether the author's life mattered when one was trying to understand a text or not. There was some discussion about the disputed authorship of Shakespearean plays - was it really Shakespeare or one of his contemporaries, or a combination of people who wrote the plays? That is a debate that has been going on for a long time and there is no definitive answer. It's also not an issue that interests me much. But the issue of whether an author's life matters in understanding does interest me, and Joyce was clearly posing this with a kind of ironic, back-handed reference to his own work and his own life.
I know there was more going on in the discussion of Shakespeare than just those elements, but I didn't try to untangle all the different threads or their details. I kinda feel that to do so would invite the need to pay attention to other details in Joyce's book, and I really don't want to delve into it quite that much. So I just let the discussion slide over me.
Here are some notes that i made about the Wandering Rocks. They may not be the rocks that you saw sticking up, but they are the ones that caught my eye for various reasons. One is my on going interest in finding literary references that may have been used in the Catcher in the Rye. Another is when i study Allusions in Ulysses: An Annotated List and something interesting is mentioned.(view spoiler)
Geoffrey, I think I approached the chapter in the same way. I like to know a bit about the meanings, but try not to get too bogged down with it, especially as a first time read. Otherwise it could become an intense study piece, with no end.
Before I move on from Scylla and Charybdis, just to emphasis how deep this chapter is in literary references, most of the preceding chapters have had 5 pages of notes at the back, this one had 40! I read the main explanatory notes, but not the almost line by line references.
Cosmic, thank you for looking up the American disaster. I meant to do that and then completely forgot about it. Once again, it shows the Joyce was completely up to date on everything. The book was published in 1922....years after these things happened; they could have easily been overlooked by Joyce but he remembers it all. He must have had a photographic memory with instant recall.
Hmmm.....Bloom may have bought his breakfast kidneys in Gallagher's butcher shop. Interconnectivity is everywhere in this book.
Someone should go back and see if the shop's name or owner's name was mentioned. :D
I like this:
"What is it (America)? The sweepings of every country including our own."
What is any new country but the sweepings of every other country who's people emigrate to it? It's what brings diversity to a new land. However, it can be interpreted as both a good and a bad thing that's happening.
By "sweepings", I interpret it to mean those who feel a need for whatever reason to leave their homeland; those who are swept into an uncomfortable corner in their homeland. However, "sweepings" could be construed as it is the country who sends it's unwanted and undesired to a new land.
In one case, the person makes the decision (for good or bad reasons; it's still their own); in the other, the country forces the person out (for good or bad reasons, the person has no control...or very little..in the move).
(Hmmm.....Bloom may have bought his breakfast kidneys in Gallagher's butcher shop. Interconnectivity is everywhere in this book. Someone should go back and see if the shop's name or owner's name was mentioned. :D
I could pretend it was a labour of love, but actually it was really easy to search for 'Gallagher' on my kindle! There is no mention of this name anywhere earlier in the book.
Petra wrote: "Cosmic, thank you for looking up the American disaster. I meant to do that and then completely forgot about it. Once again, it shows the Joyce was completely up to date on everything. The book was was published in 1922....years after these things happened; they could have easily been overlooked by Joyce but he remembers it all. He must have had a photographic memory with instant recall. ..."
It is widely documented that Joyce did, indeed, have a photographic memory!
I was looking up something today and found this picture web site:JOYCE IMAGES
http://joyceimages.com/
Gill wrote: "I could pretend it was a labour of love, but actually it was really easy to search for 'Gallagher' on my kindle! There is no mention of this name anywhere earlier in the book..."Hahaha..... thanks, Gill.
I'm not convinced that it wasn't Gallagher, though. Joyce may have used his shop's name in Bloom's episode and his name in Episode 10....they might still be the same. Joyce tricks us like that........on the other hand, the two may be completely separate.
Someone has to trace the streets in both segments and cross-reference them (another labour of love :D).
Cosmic wrote: "I was looking up something today and found this picture web site:JOYCE IMAGES
http://joyceimages.com/"
Nice!!
Petra wrote: "Gill wrote: "I could pretend it was a labour of love, but actually it was really easy to search for 'Gallagher' on my kindle! There is no mention of this name anywhere earlier in the book..."Haha..."
This did help with my Catcher In The Rye allusion.
In Allusions in Ulysses: An Annotated List as i mentioned in message 1138 Joyce reviewed The Mettle of the Pasture in the Dublin Daily Express, September 17,1903
What i didn't mention was this:
"Probably one reason that this passage stuck in Joyce's mind is that, in Allen's novel, it occurs immediately after Rowan Meredith's mother has tried to get him to agree to marry Isabel Conyers. Allen describes Rowan's reaction to his mother's imploring: 'No, no, no! He cried, cooking with emotion, Ah, mother, mother!' -and he gently disengaged himself from her arms"(p124) Rowan leaves and Mrs. Meredith immediately realizes that her childish wish that Rowan and Isabel should marry will never be fulfilled. Allen then says,
"we are reminded that our lives are not in
our keeping, and that whatsoever is to befall
us originates in sources beyond our power.
Our wills may indeed reach the length of our
arms or as far as our voices can penetrate
space ; but without us and within us moves
one universe that saves us or ruins us only
for its own purposes ; and we are no more
free amid its laws than the leaves of the for-
est are free to decide their own shapes and
season of unfolding, to order the showers
by which they are to be nourished and the
storms which shall scatter them at last. " (p125)
For me this is significant in reading a book. I imagine when Joyce read his book and came across this section it reminded him of his own union without engaging the church, or getting married. When i read it i didn't get that much from the text. I am woefully ignorant on The Mettle of the Pasture so the allusion was lost on me. I think it is these things that made Joyce remark that he Ulysses is full of Riddles.
For me this is significant because i discovered that Salinger used the same style of impregnating his text with meaning that would not be obvious except to the ones that wanted to study the allusion and literary references.
So when it comes to Gallagher to me this preceded the text that was important to Salinger. X marks the spot but you still have to dig.
I think this is what keeps these books alive!
Cosmic wrote: "Petra wrote: "Gill wrote: "I could pretend it was a labour of love, but actually it was really easy to search for 'Gallagher' on my kindle! There is no mention of this name anywhere earlier in the ..."I can see I am going to have to reread The Catcher in the Rye - like most people I read this as a young man and have little memory of the story now. Your comments about it intrigue me!
http://joyceimages.com/episode/10/?pa..."In America those things were continually happening." (U10.90)
Several large scale disasters indeed took place in America around the turn of the century, and were extensively covered in the news:
* The Great Chicago Fire, 1871. It consumed > 2,000 acres of Chicago's urban landscape, leaving some 17,500 buildings in rubble. One third of the city's 300,000 residents were left homeless, and 300 people died.
* The Johnstown Flood, 1889 (shown in the SV). After several days of heavy rain in the spring of 1889, Lake Conemaugh, a man-made lake in southwestern PA, broke through its dam. Within an hour, a gigantic wave of water flooded and destroyed the town of Johnstown 14 miles away. Some 2,000 people died. Many survivors awaited rescue for days on top of broken homes and debris.
* The St Louis Tornado, 1896. It ripped through the core of the city of St. Louis MO, reaching into St. Clair County, IL. It was one of a large series of tornadoes April-November that year. At least 255 people died and >1000 were injured.
* The Galveston Hurricane, 1900. It struck Galveston TX on Sept. 8th at 135 mph. Nearly a fourth of the city's 38,000 residents died, and 3,600 homes were destroyed.
Cosmic those Joyce images are very interesting, I've never seen anything like it! I read Catcher in the Rye about 15 years ago in my early twenties and I didn't like it very much, but I can't really remember any of it now.
I've started on the wandering rocks episode and I'm really enjoying it. I like how everyone is connected through a loose thread of time and place. I'll post back when I'm finished.
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Not my favorite episode but I liked it more than before. There are some interesting ideas tucked in between all that Shakespearean chit-chat.
Cosmic, I'm glad you mentioned that line. I, too, thought about it last night and was looking for it again today (but couldn't find it).
Joyce talks about (possibly) loving the daughter and later about not loving the son:
"Who is the father of any son that any son should love him or he any son?"
I found the opposites interesting.
There is a lot of father (and fatherhood)-bashing happening throughout this chapter.
"Well: if the father who has not a son be not a father can the son who has not a father be a son?"
....a reference to Bloom & Stephen?? I think it might be. The two almost meet; why not a reference to the relationship that they may have?
Gill, I agree that this episode is very much about fathers and sons. The references are many and endless. (okay....not endless but many :D)