All About Books discussion
Readalongs
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Ulysses by James Joyce Readalong & Re-Readalongs (2014, 2016); Audio Listen-Along (2017)
Pink wrote: "I'm about to pick this up and get started, I'll only be reading the first chapter/ section of Telemachus and seeing how I get on. I've read the comments above briefly, but I'll read over them again..."I am with you Pink. Hoping to pick this up next week.
Kathy, it's great to have you join us.
Gill, the book edition I have does include quite extensive notes at the back, so I'm reading those, then the chapter, then some online notes at schmoop or spark notes and then the posts here. With all of that I'm hoping something makes sense. (Still not started yet as I ended up in A&E this afternoon, after my son had a football injury. He's ok, I'll try again with the book tomorrow)
Glad to hear your son is okay, Pink.
I'm reviewing notes before I read a passage, and it's working pretty well. I'm using the notes from the Joyce Project website. The notes are color-coordinated, and you can read as few or as many as you wish. I'm enjoying seeing how beautiful Ireland is, and even seeing some of places in which Joyce actually lived and frequented.
I'm reviewing notes before I read a passage, and it's working pretty well. I'm using the notes from the Joyce Project website. The notes are color-coordinated, and you can read as few or as many as you wish. I'm enjoying seeing how beautiful Ireland is, and even seeing some of places in which Joyce actually lived and frequented.
I've finished Telemachus and think I loosely understand what's happened so far. There's a lot of other hidden meanings and symbolism. The notes have helped in pointing out how Haines is seen as a conquering Englishman, who speaks better Irish than them. The silver case with green stone, represented Ireland, the green Island in the sea and I guess showing his power as an Englishman over the Irish. Buck and Stephen are interesting, especially trying to work out their characters in regards to Hamlet (the play that Stephen thinks he's starring in?) and The Odyssey (the real drama he's taking part in?). Stephen definitely feels usurped from the tower, walking away at the end, saying he won't return, while giving up his key and money. Is this Stephen already giving up his rightful home and inheritance to Buck? Alluding to Telemachus being denied his inheritance by Penelope's suitors in The Odyssey?
A couple of other things I've noticed. The use of colour, which in this section is supposed to be the use of white and gold, yet I've found there has been a lot more mention of the colours white and silver? Did anyone else think there was a lot of silver detail included?
There's a few Yeats quotes, which is to be expected considering he was (and still is) such a prominent Irish poet. Of course there's plenty of references to The Odyssey, Shakespeare and The Bible as well, some of which I've picked up, but I'm sure I'm missing plenty as well.
Anyway, that's my initial thoughts!
Yes, if I recall correctly, Deasy's speech to Stephen reminded me of Polonius' advice to Laertes. As for Haines. he regards Irish language and culture as an object of study and of history, when it's the English who forced it to be that way.
This time round, I've realised how little I know about the play 'Hamlet'. I don't think I could cope with reading it alongside Ulysses. I must have a proper read of it sometime.
Gill, I don't know if you ever use audiobooks, but I found a company called Complete Arkangel Shakespeare that produces them, and they're quite good. I've listened to both King Lear and The Taming of the Shrew, and they were both excellent. There's a cast of actors, music, and sound effects. I follow along in my text while listening to the books. It makes for an incredible experience. (I get the audiobooks from my library--I just download them onto my smart phone.)
I have been trying to work out whether Ulysses is compelling reading without the subtext (The Odyssey, Shakespeare, etc.). I find that the reason I keep coming back to this text has actually more to do with the language of the writing than anything else. This book haunts me, and it has done for more than 40 years. Phrases pass through my mind regularly, without prompting ("agenbite of inwit" :-)). There is a sonority to the text which is seductive, and a weight. The referential subtext is interesting, too, for an intellectual like myself, but I think the power of this book is in the things that are not so easy to clearly identify or state.
I agree with Geoffrey. I think it's fun to look for the parallels and tie-ins but that it isn't necessary for enjoying or understanding Ulysses. I think Joyce meant this as a stand-alone book and that he just had literary fun & games in the fact that he saw parallels between the stories and could link them together for his own creative satisfaction. I have very little insight into this text (from an academic stand point) and see Ulysses as a rejoicing at the human experience, both as an individual and a group/society. Joyce seems to be saying something along the lines of "Life may suck at times but it's always a rewarding, entertaining experience; embrace it".
For the first-time readers, I suggest enjoying the story for itself.
I may not be making too many comments to this thread through the end of February. I'm not abandoning my second tine around read ! I'mgoing to be on vacation in Florida for the month of February and having read Ulysses once , I'm thinking that it won't be conducive to my goal of relaxing, especially if I read the analyses - lol ! I will keep up reading the thread and pop in if the spirit moves . My plan is to catch up after vacation.
Yeah, I've also been thinking today about the different ways one can experience this book. I've been thinking that some of the time, when I'm looking more deeply into the symbolism and the references in it, I'm missing out on the fact that much of it is a really good story.So, in Nestor, I've been really enjoyed Stephen in the classroom with his pupils.
'A bag of figrolls lay snugly in Armstrongs satchel. He curled them between his palms at whiles and swallowed them softly' etc etc
And then the discussion about Pyrrhus.
And then Stephen's musings whilst he's meant to be paying attention to his pupils.
And then Talbot being meant to translate at sight, but he has a copy to use as a crib.
Yes, I'm enjoying the story for itself.
And here's Polonius' text...Yet here, Laertes! aboard, aboard, for shame! 55
The wind sits in the shoulder of your sail,
And you are stay’d for. There; my blessing with thee!
And these few precepts in thy memory
See thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue,
Nor any unproportioned thought his act. 60
Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.
Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel;
But do not dull thy palm with entertainment
Of each new-hatch’d, unfledged comrade. Beware 65
Of entrance to a quarrel, but being in,
Bear’t that the opposed may beware of thee.
Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man’s censure, but reserve thy judgment.
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy, 70
But not express’d in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man,
And they in France of the best rank and station
Are of a most select and generous chief in that.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be; 75
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all: to thine ownself be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man. 80
Farewell: my blessing season this in thee!
Tom wrote: "And here's Polonius' text...Yet here, Laertes! aboard, aboard, for shame! 55
The wind sits in the shoulder of your sail,
And you are stay’d for. There; my blessing with thee!
And these few precep..."
Thank you!
Geoffrey wrote: "This book haunts me, and it has done for more than 40 years. Phrases pass through my mind regularly, without prompting ("agenbite of inwit" :-)). There is a sonority to the text which is seductive, and a weight. The referential subtext is interesting, too, for an intellectual like myself, but I think the power of this book is in the things that are not so easy to clearly identify or state. ...."
How many times have you read this book?
I think you're all right about how this can be appreciated on different levels. I guess that's the reason it's stood the test of time, but more so why people are still studying and discussing it. I think Joyce said he wanted to write a book that people were still questioning and trying to interpret 100 years later, as it's so multi layered and he's definitely right about that! It's too early for me to give much of an opinion about the book as a whole, or whether it works better as a study piece, or story in it's own right. I'm wondering what everyone thinks of the characters. I know most of you have read it before, so already know what's to come, but my initial impressions are that Buck is a bit arrogant and Stephen a little insipid and annoying. Especially how he seems to feel defeated by Buck and Haines. I'm going to read Nestor tomorrow.
A couple of questions re Nestor:Kingstown Pier, why do some of the boys giggle knowingly, and very shortly after is a list of 4 girls' names? Is it a well known meeting place for love, sex?
Have I read it correctly that the Head of the school is Protestant? I thought it was a Catholic school.
Pink wrote: "I think you're all right about how this can be appreciated on different levels. I guess that's the reason it's stood the test of time, but more so why people are still studying and discussing it. I..."I certainly agree about Buck, Petra. But as I was thinking about your question, I realised that Stephen is the only character at this stage whose inner thoughts we know anything about. Maybe if we knew something about Buck's inner thoughts we might view him differently?
Re Stephen, I don't know how much his character and action/inactions are influenced by the death of his mother relatively recently. Perhaps that has really knocked his confidence.
Gill wrote: "Maybe if we knew something about Buck's inner thoughts we might view him differently?.."That's a great insight, Gill. In Life, we are closer to those we know more intimately through ideas, thoughts, personality quirks, etc. We often "judge" the people we come in contact with but who's ideas, thoughts and personality quirks we aren't familiar with. The introvert hanging around the edges of a group is seen as stuck-up, aloof, stand-offish and is (perhaps) avoided, while that same person is seen differently and more warmly accepted by those who know him/her.
We don't know Buck in an intimate manner. Are we judging him unfairly? Are we judging him by Stephen's yardstick, which is something we barely know as well.
Haines would fall under the same umbrella as Buck. We don't know his thoughts either.
Stephen's mother's death may have a lot to do with his insecurity ....or his guilt at not doing his mother's wishes at the time of her death may be the confidence buster. I have't read A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, which may give more insight into Stephen's mindset before his mother's passing.
A bit of an aside:I'm starting to read Riders to the Sea for the seasonal plays theme. It was first performed in 1904, in Dublin. Near the beginning, someone has disappeared at sea, and they have been watching for 9days for his body to be washed up. Which is a sort of confirmation for what is said in Ulysses about someone being lost at sea. A nice sort of coincidence in reading!
Gill wrote: "A bit of an aside..."I'm also reading something else which is a bit of a non sequitur, while still being relevant somehow. Over Christmas, a friend was telling me about a new book dealing with Lewis Carroll's Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass called Alice's Adventures in Wonderland Decoded: The Full Text of Lewis Carroll's Novel with its Many Hidden Meanings Revealed by David Day. Day is a professor of literature at the University of Vicoria, in B.C., Canada (where I was staying over the hols). Day's analysis is quite fascinating and deep. Essentially, Alice in Wonderland is a retelling of the story of Persephone's descent into Hell, and deals with ideas drawn from Rosicrucian and Freemason sects. So like Ulysses, it is a story with a parallel structure, and one that is not entirely foreign to the one that Joyce draws upon.
Gill wrote: "A bit of an aside:I'm starting to read Riders to the Sea for the seasonal plays theme. It was first performed in 1904, in Dublin. Near the beginning, someone has disappeared at sea, a..."
I love finding literary connections! Way to go!
I've started my third read of Proteus, this time around; and it finally seems to be falling in place for me. Now I've read notes for it, I've a better understanding of the references and allusions, especially in the inner voice sections. Eg, I've just read from 'A hater of his kind....' to '....bald poll' and can see several places where it refers to Jonathan Swift.
I'm also enjoying the descriptive language eg, ' They are coming, waves. The whitemaned seahorses,, champing, brightwindbridled, the steeds of Mananaan.'
One of the notes I read said that Stephen was on the beach with Haines. Is that so? I seem to have missed that.
Geoffrey wrote: "Gill wrote: "A bit of an aside..."I'm also reading something else which is a bit of a non sequitur, while still being relevant somehow. Over Christmas, a friend was telling me about a new book de..."
That's interesting, Geoffrey. I knew about the mathematical connections, and also references to people at Oxford. However the links to Persephone, Rosicrucian etc ideas are new to me.
Gill wrote: "A couple of questions re Nestor..."I've found a part answer to my second question re the school:
According to Richard Ellmann, Joyce taught for a few weeks at the Clifton School in Dalkey. "The founder and headmaster was an Ulster Scot, very pro-British, named Francis Irwin, a Trinity College graduate." The students are based in part on the ones Joyce taught. Deasy is an amalgam of Irwin and Henry Blackwood Price, an Ulsterman Joyce knew in Trieste (Ellmann, James Joyce [1982], pp. 152-53). Roger Norburn's chronology of Joyce claims that he began teaching at the Clifton School sometime after May 16, 1904 (Norburn, A James Joyce Chronology [2004], p. 19).
Thanks for the digressions Gill and Geoffrey. I love it when books inspire other books and you can find comparisons or see where ideas emerged. I haven't had time to read this over the weekend, but I'll continue tomorrow.
Me too!Petra wrote: "Also, I'd love to live in a Martello Tower, I think: a rooftop terrace (with a sea view, no less), a domed living room, flagged floors (I am assuming stone floors here)....... it sounds wonderfully..."
I agree completely. I was having trouble getting into the narrative until I began to listen to versions read aloud on YouTube, which changed the whole experience for me. It reminded of listening to Russian poetry being read by Evgeny Yevtushenko - incredibly beautiful and moving, although you don't understand much of it. Geoffrey wrote: "I have been trying to work out whether Ulysses is compelling reading without the subtext (The Odyssey, Shakespeare, etc.). I find that the reason I keep coming back to this text has actually more t..."
A little late to the party, but happy to be here!Started 3 or 4 times and couldn't get into the book until I began listening to online versions. Now I read along on the annotated version of the Joyce Project. Letting the narrative wash over you without pausing to ponder each new allusion or twist of phrase, makes the banter come alive and you feel as if you're eavesdropping on the conversation. It also makes it easier to follow the action and see what's going on.
The first couple of times, when not following along with someone else, I thought about each item, trying to figure out its meaning and how it fit in with, or referred to, The Odyssey, Irish life and culture, the Church, or the many other subjects that recur through the narrative. Pretty soon I was bogged down skipping from one rabbit hole to the next, until suddenly I saw Joyce laughing his head off, imagining readers navigating this perpetual, multi-layered, multi-meaning literary scavenger hunt.
I will follow Gill's advice and just enjoy getting through the chapter with an idea of what's going on and lots of stimulating back-and-forth here on the thread!
Gill, I just started Proteus tonight. I'll keep an eye open for Haines but, as I remember it, Stephen is alone. I think I may have clued in to Joyce's very cryptic way of telling us that Stephen doesn't have his glasses and is not seeing clearly:
"ineluctable modality of the visible" & "signature of all things I am here to read" (from the first two lines of this Episode)
According to the footnotes, "ineluctable modality of the visible" means "that which is inevitably certain to be seen" and "signature of all things I am here to read" refers to a written work stating that God is present in all earthly things and humans are beholden to decipher the trace of God's word within the physical objects that surround them,
Both statements refer to not seeing at the moment but having the promise to "inevitably" see if one "deciphers the trace".
Either Joyce is a genius at making the reader "inevitably decipher" his meaning and "see" what he is saying.......or I'm a genius for making that up. LOL!
Geoffrey, that's really interesting. Now I want to read that book. Thanks for mentioning it. Gill, that's a great coincidence. Love it when that happens in literature!
Johanna, I have a CD recording of Ulysses but I've never listened to it. Thanks for mentioning the beautiful lyricism of it.
I'm glad that you are enjoying the read. I agree that the symbolism can be ignored to make the story more noticeable and readable. There's really so much happening that rabbit holes are everywhere.
.....hahaha....."rabbit holes".....another reference to Alice, which leads us back to the book Geoffrey mentions. Full circle! .....hahaha....
Geoffrey wrote: "Gill wrote: "A bit of an aside..."I'm also reading something else which is a bit of a non sequitur, while still being relevant somehow. Over Christmas, a friend was telling me about a new book de..."
Thank you for that little tidbit about Alice In Wonderland and comparing it to Ulysses. Well check out that book when i get a chance.
I read Nestor and Proteus this morning. Wow, they are completely different from each other, but I loved both sections for different reasons. In Nestor, I think it was clearer to see what was going on and follow the outline of the story, with Stephen teaching at the school and his conversation with Deasy. I probably missed all the underlying meaning though! Deasy seemed quite a similar character to Haines, I wasn't sure if he was Catholic or protestant or even Irish. In the notes about Deasy it says that he was like Haines, a unionist from the north, pro-British and anti-semitic. To be honest the only bit I'd picked up myself was his anti-semitism. Now for Proteus, where to start! I'm not sure I understood much of anything, but I tried to read without examining what was meant and just enjoy the chapter. I found the language beautiful, there were many passages I could quote from and that was quite a surprise for me. I wasn't expecting it to be quite so poetic, even though I was braced for the stream of consciousness. From my understanding Stephen was alone at the beach, contemplating all sorts of things, letting his mind wander from one topic to another, from his Mother's death and being called back from France by his Father, to other historical events and literary references such as Gulliver's Travels. I'm sure I missed lots, but that's okay.
I have no idea who Kevin Egan was. Is he a just fictional character that Stephen meets in Paris, or is he a based on a real life Irish figure?
Oh and this was the first time that I felt a connection between Stephen in Ulysses and The Portrait of the Artist of a Young Man. I think the references to his Mother and Father reminded me of his previous story and struggles.
I nearly forgot. I've read your comments above about his glasses and I have no idea what any of this is about. I don't recall reading anything to do with glasses or vision. Is this something that crops up later, or has hidden meaning, or am I missing something?
Pink, I'm so glad that you're enjoying the book so much! Awesome!Each episode can be quite different from any other episode. Mostly, that's a fun thing.
I think Kevin Egan was someone Stephen knew in Paris but I may be mistaken.
The eyeglasses thing: last year, one (or more?) of the analysis sites mentioned that in Proteus, Stephen's vision was blurred when he looked at the beach & people because he had broken his glasses earlier. We spent some time looking for that reference earlier in the book (since Joyce mentions *everything* but we never found it.
Gill found the mention of Stephen having broken his glasses the previous day in Episode 6 (or another episode further along) but it's unlike Joyce to mention things after the fact.
This one little discrepancy seems to have become, to me, one of the mysteries of this episode and I keep looking for a mention of broken glasses somewhere in the first 3 episodes. It's probably not important for anything except my own curiosity.
Pink, I've read that Kevin Egan is based on John Casey. Casey was imprisoned in 1867 for his part in the rescue of two Fenians from a police van in Manchester. The Fenians tried to rescue him and others from a London jail, killing twelve local people in the process. I think I also read that Joyce was friendly with his son in Paris.I'll leave Petra to explain the 'obsession' with broken glasses.
So glad you are enjoying this, Pink. I'm looking forward to starting Episode 4, Calypso, and getting to know Mr Leopold Bloom a bit.
Edited to add, he may be Joseph Casey not John Casey.
Petra, thanks for clearing up about the eyeglasses and Gill, thanks for explaining about Kevin Egan's connection. I'm actually wanting to read the next chapter now, so I'll make a start on that tomorrow.
Thanks for that link Gill, I was just off to look it up myself, now you've made my job easier!
Edit: I've read that piece and found it quite interesting, seeing how Joyce has tied snippets about Casey and his son into the story. It mentioned another exiled Fenian, called Patrick Egan. Perhaps Joyce used his name instead, or maybe it's just a popular Irish name for the time.
Pink wrote: "Petra, thanks for clearing up about the eyeglasses and Gill, thanks for explaining about Kevin Egan's connection. I'm actually wanting to read the next chapter now, so I'll make a start on that t..."
Yes, I wonder re the name, Pink. The only time I've met the name Egan before is Jennifer Egan.
The Proteus passage is one of my all time favorites, in ANY book, and one of the reasons I keep coming back to Joyce. Although I got a great deal more out of it this time, partly because of the informative Joyce Project, although I actually feel they missed part of what is going on here.To better understand it, I wrote my own stream of consciousness echoing of Joyce. Here it is :
JOYCE : "Ineluctable modality of the visible : at least that if no more, thought through my eyes."
EDWARDS : The visible mode is absolutely inevitable, there is no escaping it, and so even my thoughts are conditioned by my eyes.
JOYCE : "Signatures of all things I am here to read, seaspawn and seawrack, the nearing tide, that rusty boot."
EDWARDS : What the sea births in its rhythms and what it destroys, the signatures of all things are encompassed within this, since the sea is a form of blood, and I am here "on the beach" (on Dover Beach?) to read it
JOYCE : "Snotgreen, bluesilver, rust: coloured signs. Limits of the diaphane."
EDWARDS : Each color is a part of the landscape, a limit of how the light passes through things.
JOYCE : "But he adds : in bodies. Then he was aware of them bodies before of them coloured."
EDWARDS : But it's not just about light, it's also about bodies, about tangibles, about living beings. Colors attach to things.
JOYCE : "How? By knocking his sconce against them, sure. Go easy."
EDWARDS : You can bump into them and hurt yourself. So you need to be careful.
JOYCE : "Bald he was and a millionsire, maestro di color che sanno."
EDWARDS : So, the experts say this is Aristotle, and the paragraph is partly about the limits of the knowable.
JOYCE : "Limit of the diaphane in. Why in? Diaphane, adiaphane. If you can put your five fingers through it it is a gate, if not a door. Shut your eyes and see."
EDWARDS : Play on grammatical forms - diaphanine, that is, diaphane-like. Or not (adiaphane!) The manifest, tangible, provides for the notion of a gate or door - without embodiment, there can be no door. Use your eyes to see better, turn them off. Change modalities.
JOYCE : "Stephen closed his eyes to hear his boots crush crackling wrack and shells."
EDWARDS : Change not only modality but also narrative perspective - Move back to omniscience for a heatbeat. Listen now. Listen to the tangible and the detritus.
JOYCE : "You are walking through it howsomever. I am, a stride at a time. A very short space of time through very short times of space."
EDWARDS : Advance willy nilly in the midst of the sensory whirlwind. Change narrative perspective again - first person singular. I am, echoes of Descartes - I think therefore... Each stride is a second as well as a meter. Relativity theory.
JOYCE : "Five, six: the nacheinander. Exactly: and that is the ineluctable modality of the audible."
EDWARDS : Why five, six? (Pick up sticks! - A child's counting rhymes...) One thing follows another, yes. In the audible modality, what else could be true? (Remember the opening sequence, the modality of the visible)
JOYCE : "Open your eyes. No. Jesus! If I fell over a cliff that beetles o'er its base, fell through the nebeneinander ineluctably! I am getting on nicely in the dark."
EDWARDS : Try to return to the old modality - not possible. You stumble over your feet, like the beetle that struggles over an obstacle, or the cliff that collapses at its edge. The world of light, of the visible, the intangible, can't hold one up... you fall down through it. In the absence of the visible, the body can move. We are getting on nicely.
JOYCE : "My ash sword hangs at my side. Tap with it : they do."
EDWARDS : Ash is a charged symbol - the axis mundi (world tree) - hence the ineluctable. Tap root, tap beat, tap time. Tap into the world.
JOYCE : "My two feet in his boots are at the ends of his legs, nebeneinander."
EDWARDS : Step sideways, into Buck's shoes.
JOYCE : "Sounds solid: made by the mallet of Los Demiurgos."
EDWARDS : Yuh. The world made manifest, by the demiurge. Better stay down here than up there. At least have one's boots down here.
JOYCE : "Am I walking into eternity along Sandymount strand? Crush, crack, crick, crick."
EDWARDS : If my boots are in the (material) world, moving one stride at a time, then where am I going?
JOYCE : "Wild sea money. Dominie Deasy kens them a'."
EDWARDS : Another sideways jolt. A shell game. Shells as wrack and coin.
*****
So, what I think is going on here is not so much (or not only) a discussion of time versus space, but rather a discussion of spirit (and light) "versus" body (and dark), under the proviso that Joyce sees both as essential (he rejects the cleavage to spirit and light as somehow better or higher than body and dark). And The Joyce Project fails to bring this up. I think there are numerous clues in the text to support this idea. First the duscussion of the visible and light (the diaphanous), then the discussion of the body and dark ("shut your eyes"), and then a whole series of references to Gnostic ideas (The Joyce Project talks about Blake, but Blake was also drawing on Gnosticism, and Joyce would have read the litterature on this). But ultimately Joyce embraces the idea that the body is to be celebrated, not neglected in favor of the light (hence he rejects Gnosticism, which favors the light) - in many ways, the whole book, Ulysses, is a celebration of the body! This, to me, is where Joyce lays out his premise for the book as a whole. We are going to go on a journey where the body is the source of all things wonderful, while also being comic, and messy, and turbulent. We are going towards eternity along Sandymount beach.
Geoffrey wrote: "in many ways, the whole book, Ulysses, is a celebration of the body! ..."Great post, Geoffrey!
I will keep the above quote in mind as I read. My take on Joyce's story is that it's about celebrating Life with all the good & bad that it offers (gives?) us and recognizing the interconnectivity between us and everything/everyone around us. Nothing is unimportant or insignificant.....and, in the end, all is good and necessary.
It may be that our ideas are interconnected and the same.
From "Stephen Dedulas Timeline" on Schmoop: (copied these three episodes only to limit spoilers)
Episode 1: Telemachus
• The book opens with Stephen coming up the steps of Martello Tower (outside Dublin, overlooking the bay) to talk with his friend, Buck Mulligan.
• Buck Mulligan teases Stephen about not praying over his mother before she died, but Stephen is very serious about it.
• Stephen wants Haines, an Englishman who is living with them, to move out. He has breakfast with Buck Mulligan and Haines.
• After breakfast, they go down to the sea. Haines tries to engage Stephen in conversation but he is stubborn and withdrawn. He tells Haines, "You behold in me a horrible example of free thought" (1.295).
• When Haines supposes that Stephen is free to act as he chooses, Stephen says that he is the servant of two masters – an English and an Italian. He spells it out and says that he is speaking of the imperial British state and the holy Roman Catholic and apostolic church.
• Haines tries to sympathize with him, and Stephen thinks of all the famous heresiarchs in Church history.
• Stephen says that he won't be swimming and leaves Haines and Buck Mulligan by the sea, but not before Buck Mulligan asks for the house key and twopence for a pint. Stephen leaves them.
• As he wanders off, he thinks to himself "usurper" (1.356).
Episode 2: Nestor
• At the start of the Episode 2, we find Stephen teaching a class in Dalkey, questioning his students about Pyrrhus.
• It is clear that Stephen is not a very good teacher; he makes inside jokes with himself that go over the students' heads.
• Stephen helps a student with his math problems after class. At first, he thinks the student is pathetic, but then takes a more sympathetic view. He thinks of the love the student's mother must have nourished on him.
• Stephen meets with Mr. Deasy, the head of the school, in his office.
• Deasy lectures Stephen and tells him the proudest thing a man can say is that he paid his way. Stephen admits to himself that he cannot say this.
• Deasy says he knew that Stephen wouldn't and says that though they are generous they must also be just. Stephen says, "I fear those big words which make us so unhappy" (2.122).
• Deasy has written an article on hoof and mouth disease that the wants Stephen to deliver to the press. Stephen agrees.
• When Deasy begins going on about what a problem Jews are and how they work against the progress of history, Stephen says, "History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake" (2.157).
• Mr. Deasy claims that all history moves toward one great purpose and they are not to question his ways. There is the cheer of a goal, and Stephen claims, "That is God" (2.162). He says God is "A shout in the street" (2.165).
• Deasy says Stephen will not remain long at the school, and Stephen agrees.
• As he leaves, Deasy runs out after him and tells one last anti-Semitic joke. Stephen does not respond, but as Deasy returns, Stephen thinks that the leaves look like sun-spangled coins.
Episode 3: Proteus
• It's about 11am, and Stephen has come to Dublin from Dalkey by way of public transportation. As you might recall, he has a set meeting with Mulligan at 12:30pm, and in the meantime he has wandered down to Sandymount Strand (the beach at the east-most side of Dublin) to stroll along the beach and think think think.
• Stephen wanders up and down the Strand and thinks about religion, philosophy, his times in Paris, and his own remorse over his mother.
• At first, his thoughts are highly abstract. Yet they gradually become more and more concerned with his surroundings.
• Stephen sees the bloated carcass of a dog, and thinks, "These heavy sands are language tide and wind have silted here" (3.62).
• After Stephen passes another couple, he sits down on a rock and jots out a poem on a scrap of Deasy's letter.
• He realizes that he does not know "that word known to all men," i.e. love (3.80).
• Stephen thinks about death at sea and picks his nose.
• When he begins to feel as though someone is behind him, he turns and sees a ship coming into the bay.
For some reason, I was struck by the last entry:"When he begins to feel as though someone is behind him, he turns and sees a ship coming into the bay."
It had never occurred to me before this that in The Odyssey, Odesseus comes home by sea and that in Ulysses Stephen sees a boat coming into the bay just before we meet Leopold Bloom.
I like how Joyce tied this together (now that I see it).
Before we move onto Episode 4, what did you think about The Telemachiad (Episodes 1-3) as a whole? What do you think of the book? Writing style(s)? Entertainment value?
What of Stephen? What about Haines and Buck?
Also from Schmoop:
Part 1: The Telemachiad
Now, you'd think that since Ulysses is modeled on the Odyssey, which is pretty much the classic quest story of all time, this should be easy to map out. The fact of the matter is that it's not. There are a number of different ways to do this plot analysis. We just picked one, but there are other valid ones as well. Though Bloom (the Odysseus figure) does not even appear until after The Telemachiad, we here have another hero, Stephen Dedalus (the Telemachus figure) for whom life has become nearly intolerable in Dublin. Without even knowing it, he sets out to wander through Dublin with the hope of meeting someone like Leopold Bloom, someone that can give him some guidance, help him put things in perspective, and make him feel a little less cut-off from the world.
Petra wrote: "Before we move onto Episode 4, what did you think about The Telemachiad (Episodes 1-3) as a whole? What do you think of the book?
I'm pleasantly surprised so far. I was expecting to find it much harder going and while I can't pretend to understand everything that's going on or pick up on the hidden meanings and references, I'm finding it easy to get through.
Writing style(s)? Entertainment value? The writing style has been quite different for each chapter so far and I like that. It's very poetic, especially in Proteus where the language washes over you. I would say it's great entertainment value.
What of Stephen? What about Haines and Buck?
My feelings about Stephen have changed already! In Telemachus I found him whiny and annoying, not seeming to take control of the situation and let himself be walked over by Buck and Haines. Whereas in Nestor and Proteus, I've been reminded of the character he was in A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man and I feel quite sorry for him. I'm invested in his personal journey and I want to find out what happens next. I don't feel like I've read enough about Haines or Buck to give much of an opinion on them yet.
Pink, I can't tell you how happy I am that you are enjoying the book. It isn't necessary to get the meanings and references; that takes a lifetime of rereading. This is my third reading and I'm still enjoying the story. I get more out of it every time.....not from the meanings and nuances but from the story itself. I think I just relax more with the reading and find the funny, interesting bits I passed over before. The writing is still a challenge enough that the reading experience remains interesting.
If you like the different styles of writing in each episode, you're in for a treat. There's some doozies ahead. :D
I like how Joyce spent these three episodes concentrating on Stephen so that we get a feel for who he is and what his worries are. He's so young. I feel for what he's going through but this soul-searching will make him a stronger man in the end.
Pink, I haven't read any other Joyce work yet. It would be interesting to read Portrait because its an even closer look into who and what Stephen is (I think it is, anyway). I like Stephen.
Jan 30-Feb 5: Episodes 4 & 5 (Calypso & Lotus Eaters) (22 pgs)http://classiclit.about.com/od/joycej...
Well, we had fun getting to know Stephen in Episodes 1-3. Now it's time to meet Bloom.......
Petra wrote: "Before we move onto Episode 4, what did you think about The Telemachiad (Episodes 1-3) as a whole? What do you think of the book? Writing style(s)? Entertainment value?
What of Stephen? What abou..."
I was listening to Joyce's Ulysses and he said something about the title:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteus
(Read the myth) and how the dog changes forms. Eventually returns to it own shape in the form of a dog sniffing the bones of a dog. We also reminded of the sea our water bringing life in the womb and death in the drown man. The metamorphosis of man.( And this is also Stephen's coming of age so to speak - my thought)
RE Petra's questions and the Telemachiad. Yes, I enjoyed it. I agree with Pink. The book is much more enjoyable than I expected, before my first read. I enjoy the language and can live with the references I don't get.I liked Buck more this time round, I'd find him overwhelming if I knew him though. Haines reminds me of too many people I knew at Cambridge, lots of money, privilege and confidence, not much understanding and intelligence. Unfortunately, the sort who will go a long way. Ok, I know there's a lot of prejudice in those statements. I don't seem to have grown out of it!
I'm enjoying Episode 4 and Bloom now.
I'll start episode 4 on Monday, when I have more time to sit and concentrate. Gill, I think lots of people would agree with your comment about their being too many people with money and privilege but not enough understanding or intelligence.
I'm looking forward to getting to know Bloom some more!
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Hi Pink, have you got some straightforward notes? Last time i used Schmoop, this time i'm using Cliffsnotes. Some episodes i read them first, before reading the episode.