All About Books discussion
Readalongs
>
Ulysses by James Joyce Readalong & Re-Readalongs (2014, 2016); Audio Listen-Along (2017)
Tom wrote: "Chapter 7, Aeolus is now done. I equated the noise of the presses with the storm winds released by Ulysses' crew. And I couldn't help but think the headlines appeared as has been done in the movies..."Tom I love the visual on the spinning newspaper!
I have been reading the comments you are adding and thinking back to my reading. Please continue with your comments through to the end of the book.
It is apparent you are much better versed in The Odyssey than I, and I think an understanding of that text would have helped me.
I also like the image of the spinning newspapers. LOL! That's a great visual, Tom.It's such a good feeling to get a reference or joke in Ulysses. I felt that way, too, when I recognized a joke in this book for the first time.
While I'm not ready for a reread , I'm enjoying the new posts as well . Thanks ,Tom .
Ahh, but doesn't it bring back fond memories, Angela. :D
Absolutely ! I have to admit I felt a little lost after we finished . I would usually save my reading until the end of the week so I could have the weekend to get ready for our weekly discussion of whatever episode we were on . Now I have time to just focus on books I can understand without reading synopses and analyses. But yes - I have fond memories of this group read and I think we will all be bonded by Ulysses for life - lol !
Evelyn wrote: "Tom I love the visual on the spinning newspaper..."Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__u2e...
Well I can't claim any special knowledge of the Odyssey - I just look up the relevant subject headers online and read synopses. One thing I have noticed is the importance of keys in the novel - Dedalus and Bloom both leaving their respective dwellings without them, and both having external reasons for not being able to use them Dedalus because Buck wanted his key to keep his shirt smooth, and Bloom because he suspects Molly of having an affair with Boylan. And of course the notion of two keys being identified with home rule, via the Keyes ad which Bloom does not get into the paper. In that sense it's his blowhard colleagues who thwart him from doing his job. (Like the winds blowing Odysseus off course when he was in sight of home.)
Also, it seemed like Joyce is pointing out the two tiered social system in Ireland. The Irish feel themselves oppressed by the English, but they in turn oppress those, like Bloom, who are different/aren't true Irish. In fact, the speech mentioned uses the Egyptian/Israelite metaphor for the English/Irish relationship, yet see no problems with making fun of/or not acknowledging the existence of Mr. Bloom. Stephen has it a bit better in that he was asked to write for the paper, but he refused, in his head wanting to keep writing his poetry.
In the end though, it's all about finding home - for the Irish, (free from the English), Dedalus (free from Buck Milligan and Haines), the Jews (Promised Land) and Bloom (free from the specter of adultery - his wife's alleged activities and his own dalliances) - a place in which they can feel safe and prosper.
Edited to add - he uses the word organ in a variety of different ways in the book - Bloom's breakfast, the cemetery being essentially a collection of failed organs, the Nelson statue being the heart of the tram system in Dublin, the newspaper as a daily organ, as well as a mouth organ (that I think one of the newsboys plays).
Angela M wrote: "Absolutely ! I have to admit I felt a little lost after we finished . I would usually save my reading until the end of the week so I could have the weekend to get ready for our weekly discussion o..."So true!
Tom wrote: "In the end though, it's all about finding home - ...... - a place in which they can feel safe and prosper...."
I like this. Well put, Tom.
Oh it is nice to read more comments here! I'm glad you are enjoying the book, Tom.
Chapter 8: Laestrygonians - From the online research I did, it seems the Laestrygonians were cannibalistic giants (or a large race of people) that decimated Odysseus' fleet, killing/devouring all the crews and destroying all the ships, save one - Odysseus' own because he did not anchor in the harbor with the rest of his fleet. The chapter is replete with references to food, hunger and weight, but probably the most direct comparison is the scene where Bloom stops by the first pub he'd planned on having lunch. The diners' lack of manners while eating puts Bloom off the place and he decides to go to a nearby pub.
There he has a cheese sandwich, which is kind of surprising since he'd had the kidney for breakfast. This part seemed an indirect reference to the sacrament of Communion (though Bloom dines alone) and its cannibalistic overtones (the bread and wine being Christ's body and blood). Bloom is also placed as the Christ figure when he helps the blind boy across the street, feeding the seagulls (manna from heaven) and at the beginning of the chapter where he misreads blood of the lamb as being about him.
Ever practical, Bloom wonders about how responsible a religion is that encourages its members to be fruitful and multiply without regard to having the resources necessary for feeding them all. He also wonders how man discovered what foods were edible/beneficial and which ones were harmful. Which is interesting to me since his meal consists of fermented foods - foods whose preparation had to be discovered/learned over time. And of course, as the richer upper class developed, the methods of preparation became more and more elaborate/extreme, as in the making of foie gras. In fact, Bloom, at a later point in the chapter, thinks about how cruel and savage the meat producing industry is.
Food as love is also mentioned when Bloom nostalgically remembers a passionate day with Molly wherein she feeds him partially chewed seedcake from her own mouth - after which the two make love.
Also interesting - Bloom says he has difficulty understanding what a parallax is, and Joyce gives a good example of it, as when Bloom goes to use the restroom and the other pub patrons talk/gossip about him, often in error. We know Bloom through his actions/inner monologue, but here we get an idea of how others see him as well.
Chapter 9: Scylla and Charybdis – Lots of things going on here. We finally hear Stephen's theory about Shakespeare being both Hamlet and Hamlet's father. It seemed that Stephen steered his ship toward Aristotelianism/Scylla in that he pretty much says that Shakespeare wrote what he knew/experienced in the real world. As opposed to the more idealistic eternal Platonic forms/Charybdis. (That observation came from Sparknotes, and I think it's a good one.).I think the idea of persistance and change can also be put into a Scylla and Charybdis dichotomy as well – while we are identifiably the same individual, we are not exactly the same as we were at birth, or in some previous version of ourselves. And in this sense, I think Joyce brings the idea of a parallax into play. Viewing even ourselves from different points in the present can bring about two different observations – considering myself at 18 when 30 is going to be different from considering myself at 18 when 50.
Stephen's theory that Shakespeare is both King and Prince Hamlet seems to align with the idea that Joyce is both Bloom (Odysseus) and Stephen (Telemachus). In that sense it introduces a few parallaxes – the version of the authors contained within their characters as well as the juxtaposition of the stories. King Hamlet/Odysseus/Bloom have had their spouses cheat on them or they at least suspect it. Prince Hamlet/Telemachus/Stephen have had their home invaded by a usurper and there seems little they can do about that fact. What I found really interesting is that Shakespeare himself seems to have had his own odyssey, going from Stratford to London, returning some years later as Stephen alleges that Anne Hathaway had cheated on her husband, the bard of Avon.
One other theme I've noticed is the notion of money lending between the three stories. As I said before, Polonius has his famous advice to his son Laertes (Shylock from the Merchant of Venice is also mentioned in this chapter), Stephen has a similar speech from Mr. Deasy, and needs to remind himself not to spend all of his money in a quick, foolhardy way. In looking up lending in terms of the Odyssey, it seems that it plays a role in the Eumaeus, but I've not fully researched it yet.
Isolation is another theme that can be seen through all three stories – Bloom and to a lesser extent Stephen are isolated from societies in which they'd like to belong. Hamlet isolates himself by his increasingly erratic behavior, and Odysseus is becoming isolated by attrition in that each stop on his journey leads to him losing more of his ships and men.
As a side note, Bloom is more practical than Stephen but Stephen is more artistic and intellectual and therefore more capable of flights of fancy as befits his last name. (Another Scylla and Charybdis dichotomy?) To be totally practical would rob Joyce of his literary skills, but to be totally artistic/intellectual would I think lead to detachment from reality.
Another Scylla and Chaybdis moment I see is Stephen's talking about love – how it looks for another's good, but it also looks to secure our own pleasure too. Courtly (Platonic) and carnal (Aristotelian) love is also mentioned in the chapter as well.
I don't known if you are ready for this:There is a group reading Dubliners.
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show_...
Cosmic wrote: "I don't known if you are ready for this:There is a group reading Dubliners.
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show_..."
Heh thanks, but I'm not. Reading Ulysses is enough for now. To be honest, I didn't know that Portrait and Dubliners were pre-sequels of a sorts to Ulysses. I'll eventually get around to them, but not before some intervening lighter/less challenging reads happen first. Thanks for the link regardless.
Chapter 10: Wandering Rocks - This chapter provides a welcome respite from the interior monologues of the first nine chapters. That is not to say though that it is easy going. Joyce throws linearity to the wind, breaking up the chapter into about 19 episodes, which follow various characters' travels around Dublin. The overarching journeys are those of Father Conmee (who seeks to get Patrick Dignam into a Jesuit school tuition-free) and the viceregal parade to a charity benefit for Mercer Hospital. Interestingly, most of the characters in the chapter see the parade, but Bloom and Stephen Dedalus do not. The chapter also points out traits that both Bloom and Stephen possess - they are both of an artistic bent and both enjoy books. In fact, they both pick out books about sex, albeit for different reasons. Also, both are recognized by others for these predilections - M'Coy calls Bloom an allaroundman (which I take to mean Renaissance man) and Mulligan says that while Stephen will never be a poet, he will write something in ten years.
We're also shown how badly off Stephen's family (as well as Stephen himself to a lesser extent) is, as his sisters have taken to trying to pawn some of Stephen's books for money. As a contrast, Bloom has given five shillings to the Dignam fund to help support the now orphaned children. Moreover, it is not just Bloom who is charitable, it's Molly's arm that throws the coin to the wounded veteran (which I found out on Sparknotes).
I understand that (via Sparknotes) Joyce interpolated sentences from two simultaneous events to be the rocks for the reader. To be honest, I didn't notice them since the book is such a challenging read anyhow for me.
Chapter 11: Sirens - Joyce continues with parallel narrative in this chapter, but he also throws in a list of motifs at the start of the chapter. I'm strongly reminded of classical music books, say of sonatas (or other collected works) which list the starting motif for each piece or movement within the piece. Entirely appropriate since music is one of the central themes in the chapter. In the Odyssey, Odysseus had his men block their ears up so they could not hear the sirens' song. Interestingly, he has himself tied to the mainmast (ears clear) because he MUST hear the song. In that sense, I see Crowley, Dollard and Simon Dedalus as doing just that - they walk into the valley of temptation (of two Irish mainstays, music and drink) and cannot extricate themselves from it. Also interesting are the songs they sing - lost loves and historical war songs, indicating that much of their focus is on the nostalgic past, and not on the ever more dire present. The fact that they are past their prime is also alluded to in the text. So while life without music and drink is not a good thing, so it is when there's too much of either. (You can safely assume when I write about dichotomies like this, Scylla Charybdis are at the forefront of my mind.)
True to form, Joyce starts the chapter with the two beautiful young barmaids at the Ormond Hotel - Lydia Douce, who has just come back from holiday and is very sunburnt (bronze) and Mina Kennedy, a golden haired girl. Miss Douce flirts with one of the patrons and Bloom also stays longer than he intended because his attention is drawn to her.
The chapter also seems to use the narrative to manipulate the meaning, as the part where the servers are talking about the ugly old fogey druggist is interspersed with episodes of Bloom's traveling around Dublin - so that you cannot help but make the connection that Bloom is unattractive. (I had to read it a few times to see that they were only talking about the druggist.)
One thing I thought was brilliant was Joyce's inclusion of a blind man (the piano tuner) and bald Pat (well nigh deaf busboy/waiter in the hotel's restaurant). Yes, Scylla and Charybdis again. The fact that the tuner enthralled the maids with his piano playing was a nice touch.
One of the questions I had though was does Bloom have an erotic penpal because of Molly's incipient infidelity? I can't remember which chapter it was in, but I recall something along the lines of "What's good for the goose is good for the gander."
And since the book was ostensibly a present to Nora Barnacle, who would become Joyce's wife. What does that say about their relationship?
In Chapter 12, Cyclops, who leads whom around the pubs of Dublin to teach the evils of alcohol. When I read it, I thought it was Bloom leading the nephew about, but on a website it was Bloom who was led. Which is right?
Chapter 12: Cyclops - It just keeps getting better and better. Joyce's interpolation of Polyphemus into the description of the Citizen was brilliant. Also, having an unidentified first person narrator was not only a nice change of pace, but it fit well with the overarching story. I couldn't help but notice that both the narrator nor the Citizen were given identities - no "I" as it were, as they were only a collection of their dialogues.Sparknotes turned me on to the various stake-like images Joyce uses in chapter, but most importantly, the cigar Bloom enjoys at the pub. Bloom though is not the hero of legend, as he nearly burns himself on it toward the end of the chapter. I have to wonder if Freud's "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" was around at the time Joyce wrote the piece, because I could see him (Joyce) adding "except when it's not." at the end.
I think the chapter also showed just how much of an outsider Bloom is. Being Jewish, "true" Irishmen like the Citizen see him as an undesirable hybrid who should not be there. Also, Bloom doesn't drink alcohol, which, in Ireland absolutely sets him apart. In fact, it proves his non-Irishness and is a catalyst for the Citizen's attacking him at the end of the chapter. The narrator also notices Bloom's not drinking, nor offering to buy a round. (Especially since the narrator makes the erroneous assumption Bloom has just collected a large sum of money from betting on the Gold Cup, which he did not bet on at all.) The ironic part being, if I understood it correctly, Joe borrowed money from Bloom with which he buys the rounds, and also Bloom's cigar. But according to the narrator, Bloom's the one who essentially bummed the smoke from Joe.
Not that Bloom doesn't have issues - it seems like he's a nerdy know-it-all, but not for self-aggrandizement, but as someone who seeks truth. His topics of conversation seem to be in left field a lot of the time and when they aren't, he's ignored by the Citizen and those assembled. (As when the Citizen starts with the nationalistic talk about the martyred patriot.)
I can't help but think the chapter is set up to be a pissing contest between the Citizen and Bloom, which I think was the case with Polyphemus as well. But other references come up - Denis Breen makes an appearance, with the prank card "U. P.: up" and in fact the characters discuss him a bit as well, with Bloom saying that it must be difficult for his wife. Joyce also has the narrator visit the necessary to offload his spent cargo of Guinness and when he gets back the other men are gossiping/discussing Bloom.
I like how Joyce integrates the sheep motif into the story, with the Citizen literally calling Bloom a "wolf in sheep's clothing" referring to his not being truly Irish (non-Catholic, non-drinker) and therefore a danger to those he considers the real thing. And the narrator calls Bloom sheepsface as he (Bloom) is carried away by the jarvey posthaste, much as Odysseus and his crew escaped the blinded cyclops by clinging to the sheeps' underbellies.
The reference to Elijah was brilliant as Joyce has been working up to it in the previous chapters. I wonder if he (Joyce) meant this chapter to be the close of his Old Testament and the New Testament starting with Nausicaa and Bloom's journey home.
Chapter 13: Nausicaa - I get the feeling I might be right (about Old and New Testament), because Nausicaa is the first chapter in the book that gets into a woman's head (Gerty MacDowell). I think Joyce kind of rigs the game here a bit, because while it is a parody, it WAS really nice to read something rather more straightforward for a bit. Not to worry though, as the second half of the chapter is taken up with Bloom's interior monologue. Although I thought it was really creepy when I read it, it does indeed seem like Gerty-Nausicaa indirectly helps Bloom-Ulysses to a victory in the long standing war with his personal cyclops. I read on one of the notes sites (SparkNotes I think) that Bloom and his wife had not been intimate since the death of their son Rudy which would seem to explain, in part at least, the Blooms' marital difficulties.
I also think that it may have something to do with Dignam's death and mortality in general - that here was an act of defiance against death, even if a futile one since the seed was spilled onto the earth.
Unlike the previous chapters where the people around Bloom were generally disagreeable, here in Nausicaa I thought the girls were delightful. In his quest not to idealize Bloom though I think he may have gone a step or two too far.
Also interesting was Joyce's connecting Gertrude to the Virgin Mary (whose church they are close to, where the men's temperance retreat is being held). Does she save Bloom? Perhaps, but it's clear the event means very different things to them both.
The other shock to me in this chapter was finding out Gerty is lame, and Bloom's reaction to it. He says something to the effect of that's why she's on the shelf as if she was damaged goods. He then goes onto thinking about how, in his words, abnormalities affect relationships with people. Thing of it is, in all the chapters before this, being different was seen as something bad, culminating in the Citizen's attack in the last chapter. Here, different is embraced as both Molly and Gerty are attracted to Bloom because of his foreignness.
When Nausicaa first encounters Odysseus, he's naked and fast asleep on the beach. Bloom on the other hand ponders whether he should go home or not yet, deciding on the latter as he may not want/be able to confront the scene of Molly's and Boylan's tryst. So Joyce has Bloom falling asleep on the beach after Gerty leaves with a plan to go back into Dublin after a short nap.
Edited to add: Forgot to add that it seems like Joyce took nod to a Romeo and Juliet setup making Gerty the granddaughter of the Citizen.
Chapter 14: Oxen of the Sun - Another hard go reading-wise, especially since this is about where the annotations in the edition I was using had run out. From what I could tell though, the three main points of the tale in the Odyssey have been accounted for. Odysseus and his crew land on an island where the cattle sacred to Helios live. (Bloom, Stephen, Lenahan etc have gathered at the maternity hospital where Mina Purefoy is still in labor. I assume the hospital so as to keep company with the two medical students there.) Odysseus tells his crew not to touch the cattle, but the crew disobeys, slaughtering them for food. (Most of this chapter is a drunken dialogue between, but for Bloom, the single men about childbirth and off color comments about women. In fact, Bloom's daughter is the subject of one such conversation, though it dawns on Bannon that Bloom is Milly's father so he has the brains to slip away quietly from the group.) Helios complains to Zeus about the crime and Zeus punishes the crew by destroying them and the ship with a thunderbolt, leaving Odysseus to swim to Kalpyso's island. (A massive bolt of lightning initiates the storm that brings some much needed water to Dublin. Stephen is afraid, thinking God is angry with his (Stephen's) "hellprate and paganry" e.g., the story he told about papal bulls. Bloom tries to reassure him, explaining the science of lightning, but it doesn't help. Eventually, seeming on a whim, Stephen suggests the crew go to Burke's where they arrive in time to have a drink, but then are kicked out at closing time. Bloom attempts to follow Stephen, but ends up alone in one of the seedier parts of Dublin.)
Once again Joyce uses form to inform content and vice versa. He starts with the literally translated Latin for the first section and then brings it forward through history in a variety of literary styles. Sparknotes says it's the birth of language, which continues through to the use of Dublin slang at the end. I did notice how the highbrow/epic language attempted to raise the level of the proceedings, including embellishments and compliments of the characters involved. I did like how Stephen's story of the bulls and Buck's fertility scheme were presented, particularly the latter.
I did notice that Bloom took a liking to Stephen, even trying to calm him down in the wake of the lightning. Is this the first step to his being a father figure for Stephen? Seems that way to me. Because in addition to Bloom being on an odyssey on June 16, 1904, he's been wandering in his relationship with Molly for ten years following the death of his son Rudy. Perhaps this is the start of his own healing process.
One question I did have was why Bloom is so interested in Mina Purefoy's pregnancy/birth?
Edited to add: Also, in this chapter, Bloom chides the men for talking about women in that way, there is a section that calls him out as being a hypocrite, being guilty of some of the same sins.
Tom, I do believe I am getting more out of your notes than I did reading Ulysses myself. You break it down so it is so simple and straightforward, I read your notes and say "why didn't I see that?"
Evelyn wrote: "Tom, I do believe I am getting more out of your notes than I did reading Ulysses myself. You break it down so it is so simple and straightforward, I read your notes and say "why didn't I see that?""Thanks Evelyn. I claim no special knowledge. I just read the text and then read the related chapter summaries/analyses on sites like Shmoop and Sparknotes, and re-reading the text as needed. Still, it's good to know someone's reading them, so thank you for that as well.
Chapter 15: Circe - In the Odyssey, Circe offers part of Odysseus' crew food and drink, turning them into swine once they'd had their fill. (Based on the preceding chapter, that would not take much, if any effort with the drunken crowd of scholars, students and ne'er do wells ejected from Burke's.) Eurylochus, expecting treachery from the start (keep in mind he's the one who agitated for the slaughter of the oxen of the sun), returns to Odysseus to tell him of the mens' fate. Odysseus and the rest of the crew make ready to rescue their shipmates, but Hermes tells Odysseus he must protect himself from Circe's magic using an herb and once she is foiled make as if to attack her. (At one point in the brothel, Stephen asks for a cigarette, but drops it, lit, which Bloom readily disposes of. Also, due to seeing the ghost of his mother, Stephen attacks the chandelier with his ashplant - and Bloom, once again to the rescue, smooths things over with brothel madame.) Hermes further warns that Circe would then ask him to bed and there attempt to steal his manhood, unless he made her swear by the names of the gods she wouldn't. (Bloom is not successful as in an extended fantasy the brothel madam becomes his dominatrix, and switches sexes with him.) Odysseus avoids this pitfall and ends up staying on the island for a year. (The Circe chapter is the longest in the book, even the time spent in reality is fairly short compared to Bloom's and Stephen's fantasies.) Incidentally, Circe tells Odysseus there are two ways back to Ithaca - either through the Wandering Rocks, or past Scylla and Charybdis. (Bloom helps Stephen navigate one such peril by keeping him out of jail with Corny Kelleher's aid in getting the night watch not to run him (Stephen) in.)Bloom and Stephen's fantasies make up a good portion of the chapter - with Bloom's relating to his shortcomings as a man, his various transgressions and sexual proclivities, and being a false messiah. Does that last move him closer to being a Christ figure, with his being Jewish?
Stephen's main episode is seeing his mother rise from the floor of the brothel. He is guilt-ridden over her death, asking her if he was the one who caused it. Assuming that Bloom/Stephen is a manifestation of Joyce in the novel, what does that say about him? Stephen (as in previous chapters) wants to see Ireland freed of Scylla (the Church, living off the fat of the land, enslaving its people) and Charybdis (England, responsible for the widespread destruction of the land and its people). That sounds like something Joyce could get behind. It's this desire that leads up to Stephen's altercation with an British army officer and subsequent trouble with the night watch. Interestingly, Stephen is the one to act on the basis of his fantasies, whereas Bloom simply watches/accepts them.
One thing I did notice was that the previous chapters referenced the real world (bits of song, quotations etc), but the Circe chapter references mostly the world Joyce has created through the novel. Does that mean I as the reader am experiencing my own fantasy? If so, that's very meta and very cool. In a way, it collects the experience of the novel and refracts (or is it reflects) it through the glass darkly as it were of Bloom's and Stephen's subconsciouses. Does that make a parallax?
Forgot to add: Bloom's hallucination of his son Rudy, while tending to Stephen is telling and further entrenches the idea that Bloom is/wants to be a father figure to Stephen.
Chapter 16: Eumaeus - Eumaeus is the first person Odysseus sees when he lands on Ithaca. Not knowing what the situation at home was like, Odysseus comes to Eumaeus in disguise. (Several of the characters in the chapter - the keeper, the sailor, the faux cabman - do not seem to be who they appear to be. Also, the sailor seems to be a kind of false Ulysses, being a sailor who talks about long times away from home and the adventures to be had out in the world. Bloom also talks of leisure traveling/vacationing both for himself and the common man in general. The air of uncertainty is further reinforced by all the gossip going on about various subjects.) Odysseus is careful in his questioning to find out how things stand at home and where Eumaeus stands. (Bloom, wisely, keeps quiet about his thought that Ireland should remain with England, given the demonstrably hostile crowd in the shelter. And despite that, the temperance and Jewishness, Bloom considers himself a true Irishman. To Stephen though, he relates his encounter with the Citizen and the outcome, with the third person narrator adding "People could put with being bitten by a wolf, but what properly riled them was a bite from a sheep.", again a reference to the Cyclops.)
Telemachus arrives, whom Eumaeus greets as a son. (This is the first time in the book that Bloom and Stephen can sit down and actually talk to each other, though the conversation is at times mundane and halting, given that Stephen is still intoxicated. I think Bloom here better fits Eumaeus’ role in being a father figure, rather than the actual father. That said, Bloom is an imperfect dad lecturing Stephen about keeping bad company both in his friends and romantic relationships – to the point of being hypocritical, having himself visited, that we know of, at least one prostitute – Bridie Kelly. Still, he means well, as the bromance evolves in his thoughts, with Stephen and Molly singing duets together, and them going on concert tours. While Bloom does welcome the money I think it’s only to live comfortably, but more importantly to him, make him more of a society insider. This after Bloom has come up with a plan to have Stephen stay the night at his (Bloom’s) house, despite someone having her occasional temper. It’s interesting to me that on this night of all nights he wants to bring someone home in the aftermath of his wife’s having had a tryst there. Awkward? Certainly.)
Together the three (Odysseus, Telemachus and Eumaeus) develop a plan to take on the suitors. (In contrast, Bloom doesn’t know what he’ll be walking into when he gets home, or what Stephen will do once they get there.)
Chapter 17: Ithaca - An aptly named chapter I thought since Joyce is giving us the lay of the land so to speak, providing back story for Bloom and Stephen. Much like the meeting of two disparate characters it describes, the narrative style seems a mix of religion (catechetical question and answer) and science (just the facts, but in a vocabulary that obscures the meaning). Some of this is used to good effect, as when Bloom has to get into his house without his key, but for the most part, I found this chapter difficult to grasp. A good part of the novel it seems has been setting up this parallax - Stephen and Bloom seeing each other at a distance, gradually falling into each other's orbit and finally being able to see each other up close. They both have an affinity for music and the arts, but the dissimilarities are notable - Stephen as Artist, Bloom as Scientist; Stephen as Plato, Bloom as Aristotle; Stephen as Future, Bloom as Past. Joyce points this out through the chapter, such as their respective thoughts while they urinate together in garden, and on hearing the bells when they shake hands. Still, the two have a discussion in languages they should know, but don't really (Bloom's Hebrew and Stephen's Irish) after which Stephen sings an anti-Semitic song. It's the otherness, I think, helped along by the detached narrative style that I think is the focus in the chapter, but by extension leads me to consider Bloom's and Molly's estrangement as well.
One further note on Stephen - Joyce tells us that Bloom met him twice before when Stephen was 5 or 10. Simon invited Bloom to dinner but he declined - which told me that he did have the opportunity to know the Dedalus clan, and Stephen especially but he did not take advantage of the offer.
Also interesting and funny was how Joyce incorporated the notion of arcs in the chapter, as the men go outside to relieve themselves of the day's liquid victuals. Even going so far as to acknowledge Bloom as a champion pisser in school.
Much as Odysseus did in Homer's work, Bloom finds home to be quite a bit different from the way he left it. Boylan's betting tickets in plain sight were one thing, but moving the furniture around took things to a whole new level. It seems Molly is flaunting the infidelity, forcing Bloom to acknowledge his part in it, (being no angel himself), but perhaps also trying to get him to do something about it. In that vein, Bloom defeats Boylan by thinking of him as one of many of Molly's suitors but at the end of the day, he, Bloom, is still married and with Molly. A pyrrhic victory, considering how so much was lost from their (Bloom's and Molly's) relationship for them to get to this point. And of course a very different sequence of events plays out in the Odyssey where Odysseus and Telemachus slaughter the suitors and Odysseus claims her as his own.
Reading some commentaries, I understand that the chapter should end with a big period. Neither the online version seems to have it, nor the Delphi Classics edition. Should I be looking for something else? The chapter in both books ends with
Where?
Chapter 18: Penelope - Following the slaughter of the suitors, Penelope is still not entirely convinced that the stranger is Odysseus. To test him, in his hearing, she orders one of her servants to move her marital bed. Odysseus says that isn't possible because he'd made the bed himself and one of the legs is a living oak tree. This is something (according to Penelope) only Odysseus could know, having constructed the bed himself, so she accepts him as her long-lost husband. Joyce seems to take the above story and turn it on its head. Most of the chapter is Molly's ruminations about the day's events, her marriage, her growing up in Gibraltar and her recollection of her previous lovers. In Molly's mind, Bloom has made her and adulteress because of his sexual fetishes and infidelities - suggesting that Bloom's made his bed, and now he must lie in it.
Joyce also revisits the idea of parallax in that we've only heard about Molly through others' talking about her, and now she gets an entire chapter to herself. Also, whereas Bloom in the previous chapter lists of the names of the Molly's suitors, we get a more complete view of each here. Also, in Molly's version, Boylan is the only actual sexual infidelity, whereas Bloom thinks she's been with all of them.
Also, Molly sees Stephen in much the same way Bloom does - how it his (Stephen's) would benefit her, but her criteria are obviously different from her husband's, as in her extended fantasies about having him (Stephen) and younger men in general.
I think one of the surprising parts of the chapter is Molly's frankness about sex, and her enjoyment of it. She compares Bloom and Boylan, saying that while Boylan is more well-endowed, Bloom is more fertile (has more sperm). This seems to be an oblique reference to the running discussion through the book of being fruitful and multiplying vs sex for pleasure's sake.
One thing that Bloom and Molly share though, is the grief for their deceased son Rudy. In fact Molly says that they've never been the same since his passing. They have had no real intercourse since then, which may be one reason she decided to take Boylan to bed. On that score though, the notion of the bed being reserved for Bloom and Molly alone is reinforced because Molly and Boylan had to lay a quilt on the floor, the bedsprings being too noisy.
In both books though, the final decision is Penelope's/Molly's Both have to acknowledge Odysseus/Bloom as her husband. Molly does this (albeit in retrospect) by remembering the day she got Bloom to propose to her. For the first and only time in the novel, the text takes wing, soaring to rhapsodic heights and peaking at her affirmation - Yes. (A verbal orgasm? It wouldn't surprise me in the least.) While most of the book shows the way the Blooms live now , Joyce shows they had their moment in the sun too, the question being how close can they get to the sun again, without relying on Icarus' faulty wings.
Happy Bloomsday to my fellow Ulysses readers !
Oh, of course it is! Happy Bloomsday all round!
LOL! Happy Bloomsday!! Thanks for this reminder, Angela. You've made my day. You'd think I'd remember this day because it's also Hubby's birthday.....he's not Irish. :D
I have to confess I didn't remember it on my own. I saw it somewhere online today . But Petra since it's Hubby's day - yes you should have remembered- lol ! You can remind us next year !
Petra wrote: "LOL! Happy Bloomsday!! Thanks for this reminder, Angela. You've made my day. You'd think I'd remember this day because it's also Hubby's birthday.....he's not Irish. :D"
Maybe our reading group could do something to commemorate it next year .
Happy Bloomsday! Yeah!I knew there was some reason i was thinking about this book again. I still have a few more chapters to go to finish it. Anyone else have just a little bit to go?....i think though those last few are neatly half the book.
Angela, I think that's a great idea! I'll put my thinking cap on. If anyone has any ideas on how we can celebrate Bloomsday here, please post.Cosmic, I thought you had finished the book. Push through, man!! It's worth it. Post and let us know what you think about the last few chapters.
Petra wrote: "Angela, I think that's a great idea! I'll put my thinking cap on. If anyone has any ideas on how we can celebrate Bloomsday here, please post.Cosmic, I thought you had finished the book. Push thr..."
I decided to download it to my tablet again. I will keep at it.
My friends and I will celebrate this Friday by discussing Ulysses and Mrs. Dalloway at a local pub over Irish whiskey.
Mod
Since we read this I have also now read The Odyssey and A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. I wonder when we'll start a re-read of this.?!
Gill , maybe we could do that next year and plan on having it finished by June 16th and that could be one way to commemorate it . Just a thought , if people are up for it . I would join in .
LauraT wrote: "Will they be able of staying awake????"I guess we'll find out. :)
The reason we're doing it is one of my friends was a Lit major in college. Mrs. Dalloway is one of his favorite books - he's gone to the places mentioned in the book in a recreation of the "walk". He's also read Ulysses before but is re-reading it for the discussion. He has some theory about a connection of sorts between Ulysses and Mrs. Dalloway which we are going to hear about on Friday.
Angela M wrote: "Gill , maybe we could do that next year and plan on having it finished by June 16th and that could be one way to commemorate it . Just a thought , if people are up for it . I would join in ."That's a good idea, Angela. I'd be up for that. If we put it on the Would Anyone Like To Read thread, we could see who else is interested. I guess we'd need to start very near the beginning of 2016 to get finished,
Have a great time , Tom . Let us know your friend's idea about the connection with Mrs . Dalloway .
Gill , I was thinking the beginning of 2016 also , so we can take our time like we did the first time .
Shall I put it in the anyone want to read thread and ask Leslie to put it on the calendar?
Petra , I think you have a lot to offer a second time around so I hope you will think about leading it again . Those of us who participated last time will have more or something different to add so we can help out too .
Thank you, Angela. I'll wait and see if someone else would like to offer to lead. Like I said, I'm not against leading it again (I feel quite honored that you all saw the first attempt as helpful) but feel that perhaps another viewpoint might be more interesting for those of us participating a second time around. Gill spent some time comparing The Odyssey with Ulysses and would have some interesting things to say about the connections between the two, something I can't really speak upon. Perhaps that's another angle at Ulysses that we can explore, for instance?
We've got lots of time; we'll figure things out. I'd like Pink and others joining for the first time to have a wonderful experience with this book. I think its a book that is often overlooked because the first impression of it is "Whaat???!?!!?!?!? This makes no sense!" when it's really a great story and wonderfully told.
You are already doing a good job !!!!
All About Books
Books mentioned in this topic
Astrophysics for People in a Hurry (other topics)Astrophysics for People in a Hurry (other topics)
Finnegans Wake (other topics)
Astrophysics for People in a Hurry (other topics)
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Neil deGrasse Tyson (other topics)Neil deGrasse Tyson (other topics)
Neil deGrasse Tyson (other topics)
Wilkie Collins (other topics)
Bram Stoker (other topics)
More...
Here they are:
Episode 2: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 3: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/......"
Thank you! That helps a lot.