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Ulysses by James Joyce Readalong & Re-Readalongs (2014, 2016); Audio Listen-Along (2017)
Great article, Cosmic! Thanks! Marilyn had such a sad life. It's nice to know that she enjoyed books. From the picture, it looks like she's just finishing Episode 18.
It would have been fun to discuss this book with her.
The catechism format - I had to laugh because it is as I remember the format of The Baltimore Catechism from my catholic grammar school days ! From first grade I still remember "Who is God? God is the supreme being who made all things."I expected something more from the meeting of Bloom and Stephen but I'm not sure what . Maybe I wanted more of an emotional connection ?
I didn't feel any culmination of that relationship . ( Maybe IF I ever read it again , I'll feel differently - that's a big IF).
Mechanism is so different from the steam of consciousness. Joyce is telling us what they thought and felt and did. It was like everything we didn't know about Bloom , we now know . I don't feel like I know Stephen as well .
Acceptance rather than fighting Molly's suitors - well he's not Odysseus but maybe Joyce never meant him to be . I've heard so much over the years that Bloom is "Everyman " and I understood that a lot better after this episode .
On to the end !
Thanks for the photo and article, Cosmic.
Angela, I think that's the biggest flaw with this book: that people either don't finish it or finish and swear never to read/look at it again. I really have to wonder why Joyce would do this to his own book. It's almost like deliberate sabotage.
This book is hardest on the first reading. So hard that it pushes people away.......yet it's a book that needs to be read more than once to appreciate it because of the language, nuances, history, etc. It's a lot to take in in one reading (or two....or three, maybe).
So why would Joyce write the book in a way that both requires multiple readings and pushes people away on the first reading? What was he trying to do?
If I could sit down with Joyce and get clear answers from him, this is what I'd ask.
I won't swear I won't read it again because you never know ! I'm feeling like I wish I had read it earlier in life , in college , when as an English major , I was much more into doing research and reading criticism and analyses . Having said that , I'm happy that I did read it - well almost - still need to read episode 18 .
It was a pleasure and a great support reading it with this group .
I'll wait until I have finished it to give my final view.
Those are really good questions !
It's surprising how often the book and Bloom enter your thoughts after reading this book. At least, that's what I found and it was this that made me want to reread the book.When I first finished the book, I thought it would benefit to reread it again but didn't think that I would be rereading it myself. I was glad to have read it and be finished.
But, over time, with Bloom entering my head once in awhile, I started to want to reread it and I'm really glad that I did.
I'm going to star Episode 18 this weekend and I'm wondering how I will feel after that !
Me, too. It'll be interesting. I'm looking forward to discussing that episode and the entire book as a whole. There's a point made in one of the blogs I will post that I'm particularly interested in. The blogs have been interesting. Most say the same general thing but once in a while someone will say something different that resonates somehow. People pick up on so many nuances that I completely miss.
I definitely want to read it again, but next time in English... I regret having read a translation - as good as it was, and it really was! - but from checking the english edition a couple of times I saw some lines that were untranslatable and ended up being lost in Portuguese.
I'll never say never but not right away !
Yay!! It's nice to hear that a re-read may be in the works one day. Angela, I agree.....it wouldn't be soon. Over the years, I've read (on on-line sites as I know no one who has or will read Ulysses in real life) that one can "dip" into Ulysses "for fun". I never understood that but I think I'm beginning to. I think that I could now "dip" into the book and occasionally read an episode at random.......I think....
Maybe just part of an episode for fun? I'm finding an entire episode is taking me several days, but there are definitely parts that are very humorous and could be fun to reread.
Linati Schema:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linati_s...
Joyce listed the time with the infinity symbol to indicate that Molly does not live her life by the clock. The episode is rendered in eight (note that the numeral 8 turned sideways is the infinity symbol) massive sentences meant to capture Molly's wandering thoughts as she lies awake in bed beside Bloom.
Sparknotes:
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/ulysses...
Stuff Jeff Reads:
http://stuffjeffreads.wordpress.com/2...
YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knqdd...
Well, we did it! We made it through Ulysses!Well done!
Now that we're finished, here are a few interesting items:Bloomsday course map (if you're ever in Dublin):
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IHNNfGpRr2s...
How much did you retain? :D
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/ulysses...
Ulysses, the short, graphic version:
http://thattherepaul.com/features/ufo...
Stephen & Leopold's day at a glance:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=u...
Short summaries of all 18 Episodes:
http://www.shmoop.com/ulysses-joyce/s...
I like the Ulysses underground map. Thanks Petra!
Gosh, I got 8 out of 10 on the sparknotes quiz. I'm very surprised by that.
Brave woman, Gill. I haven't taken the quiz yet.....a bit afraid I'll fail. :DNice score!
Gill wrote: "I like the Ulysses underground map. Thanks Petra!"I liked that, too, Gill. It needs to be on a T-Shirt!
So, what did you all think of Molly? I found her as flawed as Bloom. But she loves Bloom and wants to stick by him. She's enjoying her affair with Boylan but who wouldn't after 10 years of forced abstinacy?!! I think she'd toss Boylan in a minute if Bloom ever looked her way again.
Bloom's got to curb his inclination to ogle all the pretty women. Molly feels "average" so his ogling others makes her feel inadequate.....probably one of the reasons that she can't/won't stand up to Bloom and talk with him about this "problem" they are having in the bedroom. She feels that she's not up to his standards, yet we know that Bloom loves Molly and wants a closer relationship.
These two need marriage counselling so that they learn to communicate about the important things....not books written by Kock! :D
Petra wrote: "Brave woman, Gill. I haven't taken the quiz yet.....a bit afraid I'll fail. :DNice score!"
I decided it was a quiz which didn't have a pass/fail mark, so I'd have a go! There were only 3 of them I was sure of, and I was wrong about one of those!
Remember the part where Molly says she tossed a coin from her window to a beggar on the street that morning? Somewhere in Stephen's three episodes, he notices a woman tossing a coin to a beggar in the street from a window. I'm sure these two scenes are the same scene. It's this sort of "ripple effect" that I'm noticing with this read (in the last few episodes only, though). I find the ripples interesting.
Gill wrote: "Gosh, I got 8 out of 10 on the sparknotes quiz. I'm very surprised by that."I did too!
In the end we have two imperfect people , who I think love each other in spite of their flaws. We learn that Molly is not as promiscuous as we thought she was and while she is having an affair with Boylan , it is the first time . We also learn that she thinks Bloom may have had an affair in the past and that he as we know really has quite the roving eye for women. Bloom is certainly not without blame in the rift between him and Molly.I love the positive note that it ends on - yes ! I loved her thinking about them in the past and what feels like her acceptance of Bloom such as he is - perverse in some ways - lol !
I did not quite feel the same closure for Stephen. I still felt like he was quite lost . Maybe I'm missing something .
I have to admit that I'm glad we are finished , but it has been a really good experience reading this with all of you . Petra , thanks so much for being such a great discussion leader and thanks to all of your for your wonderful insights .
Gill ,I got 8 out of 10 correct too and I also was not sure of all of those answers !
I am thinking about my rating and will write a brief "review" or really just summarize my thoughts in the next few days .
The lack of punctuation in this episode really tripped me up a few times, especially with the contractions, well, shed, hell, were. Sometimes were was were, and sometimes it was we're. I found Molly's stream of consciousness easier to follow than either Bloom's or Stephen's. Less political references for starters.
Sometimes I wasn't sure if she was talking about Bloom or Boylan.
I thought it was sweet that she was happily planning for future visits by Stephen, thinking of where he could sleep and work. I know we've talked all the way through about Bloom seeing or needing a son-figure in Stephen, but I haven't really seen that. In this episode though, while Molly thought about Stephen, I really thought she was the one aching for a son. Except for the bit when she thinks about seducing him....
I feel sorry for Molly. I now do not think that the current state of their marriage is by mutual, unspoken consent. Bloom hurts her when he ogles other women and then ignores her sexually. She just needs his embrace. Does Bloom really believe she has had multiple affairs or is it just a story he tells himself to excuse his behaviour? So much unnecessary pain and suffering here.
I'm very interested in knowing what you ladies thought of Molly's soliloquy. Some of my friends think it's very clear how - although we're supposed to be inside of a woman's head - there's a man behind her (Joyce, of course.) They don't think he succeeded in penetrating the feminine mind.
Ah Renato, not even a woman can understand the feminine mind!
Renato , I was a bit disappointed to think that Joyce's view of the feminine mind was focused so much on the physical and sexual but on the other hand it's pretty progressive to show this sexual side .
Molly had such an exotic background compared to her current life. I think success on the stage was really important to her as well as success with men. Just like so many marriages, it's unfortunate that Molly and Leopold can't actually tell each other what they are thinking, which could help them reconnect.
Evelyn wrote: "Ah Renato, not even a woman can understand the feminine mind!"LOL! Loved that answer!
Angela wrote: "Renato , I was a bit disappointed to think that Joyce's view of the feminine mind was focused so much on the physical and sexual but on the other hand it's pretty progressive to show this sexual si..."
Angela, that is precisely what some of my girlfriends said!
Renato , The true feminine mind - young and old - we're in agreement . I like that .
When I first started reading Ulysses, I tried to start with the Introduction. It is at the beginning of the book, seemed like a good place as any to start. I don't remember how many pages into the Intro I got, but I do remember giving up on it as it was all over my head and I didn't know any of the characters or events being referenced.Well now I have just successfully finished reading the Introduction and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I smiled, I nodded, I agreed knowingly. While recognizing that I have only just scratched the surface of Joyce's Ulysses, I feel in a way that I have joined a worldwide society, and at this moment it feels like a superb achievement. What a journey this reading has been!
Thank you Petra, for keeping us all going! I feel no shame in admitting there have been days I wished I had never heard of this book or ever made what at times felt like a misguided decision to read it. Petra, you were there every week for us, providing encouragement and illumination through links, synopses and analyses. Without you, I would not have made it through. Thank you.
There is a Great Courses audio about Ulysses (maybe a DVD version as well) which you may be able to find at your library. I am thinking of getting it from Audible before too much time goes by and I forget everything I read.
I was trying to decide which is my favourite chapter of Ulysses.First I thought it was ch 10 with the different people walking around the streets of Dublin.
Then I thought it was ch 17 with the catechism and Stephen and Bloom talking to each other and finding out about each other.
And then I thought of how much I've actually enjoyed ch 1 when I realised that maybe after all I would be able to understand what was going on in Ulysses!
And then there's also ch 13 with Gerty and Sandymount Strand, and there's also ch 6 with the burial of Paddy Dignam!
So many bits were good!
Good question, Gill! My favorites were Episodes 14 & 15.
Episode 14 (the maternity hospital) wasn't as great in a story-telling way but I loved how the language it was written in "developed" from something more archaic to modern slang. It was done so seamlessly that one didn't really notice it happening and yet it did. I also like how Joyce tied the language development in with the maternity hospital, full of developing, mature fetuses and new lives about to start developing.
Episode 15 was so psychedelic! Loved the zaniness of it.
Dignam's funeral was also a favorite and the beach episode with Gerty.
I also liked the episode where Stephen walked along the beach (episode 3?).
There are a lot of little stories here that stand out as favorites. You're right: so many bits are good.
I still want to read this, but just not feeling inspired right now. I finally got the Annotated Ulysses back (had to return) via interlibrary loan, but I keep procrastinating now. I have a long list of other things I want to read. So I hope you all don't think I'm a terrible person postponing this for now! It would have been fun, but.... other books are calling me....
I need to finish this book. I was very interested in Joyce mention of sunspots and wondered how much they knew about them.
I was looking at another book that talks about sunspots
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/37589/...
THROUGH MAGIC GLASSES
AND OTHER LECTURES
A SEQUEL TO THE FAIRYLAND OF SCIENCE
BY
ARABELLA B. BUCKLEY
(MRS. FISHER)
NEW YORK
D. APPLETON AND COMPANY
1890
If you are interested in more
http://www.youtube.com/user/Suspiciou...
I just started reading the book and have just now finished the Telemachiad. I am probably missing a lot of what I read, but some things I thought...(view spoiler)
I used spoiler tags... Why was the text removed?
The text is still there, Tom. Just click on "view spoiler". Also, there's no need for spoiler tags anymore, if you don't want to add them.
Have you looked back at our comments on the first 3 segments? Each segment's discussion starts with a short synopsis and some links to blogs, etc. It made it easy for us to know which episode we were discussing.
Here's a link to the beginning of Episode 1's discussion: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
It sounds like you have a good understanding of Ulysses so far.
Oh....I also meant to say that I'm glad that you've revived this thread. Keep posting your thoughts and we'll jump right in. What are your thoughts on Buck? on Stephen?
Tom wrote: "I just started reading the book and have just now finished the Telemachiad. I am probably missing a lot of what I read, but some things I thought...1. Dedalus as Telemachus feels his place at the..."
Thank you Tom for commenting. I have to read 15-18. So it was nice to be gently reminded.
I think Haines being an Oxford man and not seeing Stephen as a gentleman has a certain class status. The idea of knowing more about your language so that you are speaking over someone's head is arrogant. Tower may have some allusion in it as well.
Petra is there an easy way to "search" for the different chapter notes?
Not that I know of, Cosmic.Here they are:
Episode 1: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 2: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 3: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 4: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 5: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 6: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 7: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 8: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 9: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 10: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 11: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 12: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 13: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 14: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 15: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 16: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 17: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Episode 18: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Hope that helps.....now go read those last 3 episodes, Cosmic. We want to hear your thoughts. :D
Tom wrote: "I used spoiler tags... Why was the text removed?"Thanks. When I viewed the post on the Android app it said the spoiler was removed, and I couldn't click into the text to reveal it.
Toward Cosmic's comment, I think Joyce puts Haines in the book to show a particular English attitude toward Ireland. Class is a part of it for sure, but I got the impression that Haines sees Ireland as quaint and nostalgic and an object of study, rather than a living breathing people/nation. Stephen's statement about the cracked mirror of a servant being a symbol of Irish art comes across to Haines as clever, but he (Haines) does not seem to appreciate what Stephen's actually saying.I've been reading this annotated version online which has been very helpful in understanding where and when the interior dialogues occur.
I've gotten through the next three chapters, and I know I'm missing 95% of what's going on, but I still like the book. Molly as Calypso was well done, she being a singer who has enthralled Bloom. Unlike the Odyssey though, Bloom is hers for life, even though they both seem to have something on the side.
The Lotus Eaters was really good too I thought, with what I would consider Joyce's bold move of including religion with things like opium and tea that help people escape from/get through the day. Bloom seems to be on autopilot as well in that his penpal is a sort of escape from his married life.
As for Hades, my first thought was that for being part Jewish, Bloom seems to end up in Masses a lot. The first in the Lotus Eaters, and now the Requiem Mass for Dignam. Cunningham was of particular interest to me in that even though he takes over Bloom's story, it's Cunningham who lets Power know about Bloom's father, and it's Cunningham who is putting together a fund for Dignam's children. Also interesting is Joyce's inclusion of a moneylender in the chapter as a sort of echo of Deasy's talk to Stephen about his finances. More to come.
Chapter 7, Aeolus is now done. I equated the noise of the presses with the storm winds released by Ulysses' crew. And I couldn't help but think the headlines appeared as has been done in the movies - where the paper spins into view to come up against the screen. I'm also ridiculously proud that I anticipated one (the only one so far) reference - when Stephen alludes to Francesca da Rimini.
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I've been thinking more and more about the overlapping circles throughout this book. I'm not really sure how to explain it except as something dropped onto still water and seeing the ripples emanating out from that event. Another event would generate its own circles and soon, the two sets of circles are intertwining.
Add to that multiple events and circles, all intercepting, changing the directions or intensities or maybe stopping things altogether.
There are many good examples throughout this book but it would require another reading to catch them. The only example I can think of right now is McIntosh. He's the stranger seen at Dingman's funeral (wearing a McIntosh). The newspaper reporter asked who he was (no one knew) and someone (Bloom?) said something like "who, McIntosh?" (meaning, of course, his coat). McIntosh he became in the newspaper article, he's seen on the streets of Dublin in another episode, I think he was mentioned in Episode 17, too (which is probably why he comes to mind).
So an unknown, nameless person becomes a part of Bloom & Stephen's day in more than one occurrence. He leaves his mark on the day and in their memories and these marks/memories will continue (somehow) into the future. This is unknown to him but he's now a part of two people's lives.
If I ever read this book again (and I probably will at some point), I think I'll remember this thought and catch more examples and understand them more within the context of this story.
It's things like this that makes me realize how ingeniously Joyce has put this book together. I liked the story the first time and I'm quite enamored with it now.