Ulysses by James Joyce Readalong & Re-Readalongs (2014, 2016); Audio Listen-Along (2017) Showing 501-550 of 1,985

[Petra]

LOL! That's terrific, Robin. LOL!
I read Ulysses a few years back and I've been surprised at how often I'm reminded of the book in a real-life situation.
This is a wonderful story. Thanks for telling us.

[Angela M]

I love that Bloom shouts out the names of famous Jews and that was the thing I liked best in this episode . Up until then , even though I feel sorry for him , I thought he's been kind if a whimp - ignoring the slurs on Jews in the other episodes and avoiding Boylan . It's also sad that he is laughed at because of Molly and Boylan .

Not having read The Odyssey , I appreciated the explanation of the parallels in the various analyses . I'm feeling like reading this is a lot of work since in order for me to make any sense out of what happens in Ulysses I have to read summaries and analyses . It's been a long time but I feel like I'm in college again
- lol !
The parodies were over my head and yes citizen comes across as a jerk ! I did read that Joyce's biographer Richard Ellman thinks that citizen was loosely based on Joyce himself. Hmmm - I'd hate to think that Joyce is citizen!

[Cosmic]

In Chapter 11 Bloom mentions 1904 and forgetting where and when we were supposed to be in Dublin I looked it up and found this interesting link:
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading...

I really enjoyed listening to chapter 11 with the link Chuck gave us. It made it more musical and enjoyable. I felt like all that participated in the reading were really engaged and wanted to create a meaningful work of art.

I will be through with 11 in a few minutes.

[Cosmic]

Angela wrote: "I love that Bloom shouts out the names of famous Jews and that was the thing I liked best in this episode . Up until then , even though I feel sorry for him , I thought he's been kind if a whimp ..."

Which chapter are you referring to? I just finished chapter 11. Because this has been a challenging book I wrote down the chapters and have dated when I have read them.

I was looking up famous Jews mentioned in Ulysses. One thing that was pointed out was that Bloom is half Jewish and that is on his father's side who is not practicing Judaism. Does this make a cultural difference that I might not be aware of?

[Angela M]

Cosmic - episode 12

[Petra]

Angela, I liked that Loeopold stood up for himself for once, too. It was nice to see him believe in himself enough to make a stand.
The Citizen is a jerk.

There's so many things in this book that I don't think I appreciate fully. One of them is Leopold's embarrassment (?) or discomfort of being Jewish. He certainly feels that being Jewish keeps him apart from many Dubliners. I realize that Ireland is very Protestant and Catholic and, therefore, probably very few other religions and that this book is set in 1906, which was very different from our more relaxed ways, yet I don't quite comprehend Bloom's isolation because of his religion.
I think that's a good thing, really. It means that we, as a society, have perhaps progressed to more awareness and acceptance.

Cosmic, you've made me once again want to listen to Ulysses to hear that music, rhythm and flow.

[Angela M]

Petra said : I realize that Ireland is very Protestant and Catholic and, therefore, probably very few other religions and that this book is set in 1906, which was very different from our more relaxed ways, yet I don't quite comprehend Bloom's isolation because of his religion.

I understand Bloom's isolation, even if as Cosmic pointed out he is only half Jewish and non practicing because he is made to feel like an outsider with the antisemitism of Citizen and others in earlier episodes ( I think with the men in the funeral procession if I remember correctly is another example.) Can this be antisemitism even though Bloom is not practising? I think it is because that is the meaning that Citizen and others want to convey.

[Petra]

I guess that's what I mean, Angela. I see how Bloom would feel unwanted & isolated but not how society would care that he was a non-practising, half-Jew. The fact that this makes Bloom stand out from the rest of society is baffling to me. It shows how small Dublin was at this time that citizens knew "everyone's" history and lineage and that a person/family could be judged by this lineage.

[Petra]

Just a heads up: my brother & sister-in-law (and dog, Daisy) are coming to stay with us this weekend. I won't be able to post about Episode 13 until Monday.
Sorry!

How's everyone doing with the reading? We're getting close to the end. It's early evening already. At some point soon, Bloom will have to meet Stephen.

[Gill]

Still with you but not much internet contact at present. Will post more in ten days.

[Angela M]

I plan to read Episode 13 over the weekend .

[Cosmic]

Angela wrote: "Petra said : I realize that Ireland is very Protestant and Catholic and, therefore, probably very few other religions and that this book is set in 1906, which was very different from our more relax..."

I haven't read 12 yet, (this time around) but I did want to remind you that it wasn't just his Jewishness that sets him apart. It is also his privilege that he shares in being a Manson. So I think there is some jealousy. Could these men get in? Or would they want too? Do they see themselves as better than Bloom, more righteous?

When I lived in the northeast to be protestant was very much like being a different race. Having come from the South I was shocked that there was a "holy war"going on between these two faiths. Since I was from the Bible belt it was mostly made up of Baptist and different flavors of Protestantism. There was a Catholic school where I lived but it was across town. I knew you "shouldn't" marry across faiths ...and that the reason would be discovered after you had children and wanted to instill the beliefs you had.

Different groups see others as threats. This is why we have wars. We have identities that we wear. Whether it is heritage, religious, food, clothing, hair cuts, makeup,...we all wear a mask that we were given early on.

So indirectly is this what Joyce wants to talk about?Stephen has rejected his faith and Bloom is going to become a Father figure to him. Would you want Bloom for a Father? Or a husband? Or even a friend? Why?

Why will Stephen? He didn't like the guy from Oxford and called him a usurper.( I can't remember his name but it was in the first chapter.) I think that all of this is about Dublin life in 1904; this is a time capsule.

Ok those are my thought.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Petra]

Gill, just keep having a great time. We'll be here when you get back. {{waving}}

[Petra]

Gill, you keep having a great time. We'll be here when you get back. {{waving}}


Cosmic wrote: " Would you want Bloom for a Father? Or a husband? Or even a friend? Why?
..."

That's an interesting set of questions! We know a lot about Bloom and yet so little, too.
I think I'd like him as a friend. He's kind, friendly, helpful and he seems to be active enough that I think he'd have a variety of interests.
On the other hand, we only know him through this one day, when he's working so maybe he's not that active on a non-work day.

I wouldn't want him as a husband. He doesn't have enough backbone and gives in too easily. I like being pampered at times but I wouldn't want a husband who brings me breakfast in bed while his breakfast burns in the kitchen. I'd want to eat with my husband; not have us eat separately and alone. It's the togetherness and camaraderie that I'd want and Bloom/Molly seem to have moved away from that. We don't know Molly's side yet but we know that Bloom would like things to be different, yet he doesn't move on that wish. I'd want a man who would move on a wish like that.

For these reasons, I think he'd make a great father for small children (kind, gentle, helpful, friendly and probably quite patient) but once the kids get to the age where the parent has to show some backbone, he'd fail and the kid would walk all over him.

[Evelyn]

Finished episode 12.
I found a lot of humour in this episode, and I liked the parodies for their hyperbole and also the little jokes interspersed in them. My favourite line was the response to "who made these allegations?" "I'm the alligator". Loved that. Also in the lists of people, places, etc in the parodies - the list of wedding guests all with tree names, the list of saints including Anonymous, Eponymous, Pseudonoymous, Homonymous, Paronymous and Synonymous, as well as all the characters present in the bar and several other real people, not saints. There were many more examples like this throughout the episode. I usually skim over lists like these, but I found myself slowing down and reading the lists carefully, hoping for a chuckle or two.

[Evelyn]

Angela, with respect to Bloom calling out the names of famous Jews, the notes in my book state this - an odd list of the Jewish faithful, more a list of the doubtfully Jewish. It then goes on to explain each person's history - one whose parents left Judaism before his birth, one not Jewish at all, one whose views were so unorthodox that he was excommunicated by the Sephardic Jewish community.
Of course, no denying the Jewishness of Christ.
To me this scene is reminiscent of a schoolyard taunting, where the child being bullied stands up and says "oh yeah, well (fill in the blanks), so there!"

[Angela M]

Evelyn ,
Yes it does sound like "school boy" taunting but I really liked that Bloom spoke back since up until now he has just sat back whenever anyone made fun of him . It's interesting that this list is of questionable Jews, since Bloom's Jewishness is questionable . But as for citizen and the others who taunt him in other episodes , some of the analyses that I looked at consider it real antisemitism . Again I just really liked that he stood up for himself .

[Evelyn]

Yes, he did at last. I hadn't made the connection of Bloom's questionable Jewishness to the list's - thank you, that makes this make more sense!
To be honest the antisemitism makes me uncomfortable, just as any other example of discrimination does. I do understand, and have experienced as aggressor (I am ashamed to admit) discrimination that is so ingrained as to be "normal" in the eyes of the aggressor. At some point in my life clarity ensued and this type of behaviour now just makes me cringe.

[Angela M]

Evelyn ,

Thanks for sharing that . I love that AAB makes us comfortable enough to be open .

The antisemitism makes me uncomfortable too and that's probably why I mention it here every time I see it in Ulysses . Even though we say Bloom and those Jews mentioned are "questionable " , the intent of citizen and the men at the funeral was blatant .

There was some antisemitism in Ireland in 1904 in Limmerick . I read that there was a boycott of Jewish businesses .http://www.historyireland.com/20th-ce...

I also read a bit of this article which is only in part .

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307...

[Angela M]

Ok - I'll start . We finally reached the part that got Ulysses banned ! I have to say that I honestly didn't think it was as explicit as I expected . Maybe it was looked at differently in 1922.


I guess we have to give Bloom a break - after
all Molly hasn't slept with him for 10 years .

[Evelyn]

I agree Angela, a lot was left to our imagination in this episode.

I found that while I was reading about Gerty, my reading pace was very leisurely, kind of like la la la, nice summer day, sun is shining, birds are singing, not a care in the world and nothing to do but enjoy the day. Then, when the narrative switched to Bloom and we were back on stream of consciousness, my reading speed accelerated, became fidgety and jumpy and a little tense. Did that happen to anyone else?

[Petra]

Episode 13 - Nausicca
Stuff Jeff Reads:
http://stuffjeffreads.wordpress.com/2...

Cliffnotes:
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature...

[Petra]

Thanks for starting the discussions!

I'm not quite through Episode 13 but will be very soon.
I really like the twins in the beginning and could picture them romping on the beach, being both awesomely cute and very tiring and time-consuming. They are fun! :D

[Angela M]

@Evelyn ,
Yes , I felt the same way with the narrative and I read that in the first half Joyce was parodying a romance novel and yes once it's about Bloom it's back again .

I'll come back here when I'm on the computer , there are a couple of links I want to share . On my phone right now . But I'll come back .

[Angela M]

Petra ,
Thanks for the links . Jeff makes it sound a lot more explicit than I thought - lol ! I'll have to reread it .

[Angela M]

Dec 6 , 1933 was the day that the publisher of Ulysses won the trial and It ws declared not obscene, so I guess we should celebrate on Saturday,
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hi...

Also found this interesting link on the trial:
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3...
"Ten minutes after the judge completed his statement, Random House had typesetters at work on Ulysses."

[Cosmic]

I am a little behind right now but I am making an effort to finish the book. I am at the end nd of the Cyclops chapter. What do you make of the foot and mouth disease? Is it a pun? As well as being literal? Was it a real problem? We're farmers especially Irish farmers being exploited? Did this happen again with "mad cow disease"?

I always like to see connections. The more connections the better.

[Robin P]

I got behind with chapter 12 because it seemed to be just more guys talking in bars. But when I got to the parodies, I loved them. He has political reporting, sports writing, science, legends, historical fiction, the bible, advertising, legalese, society column - I especially liked the wedding of the trees. It segues into chapter 13 which is like the "chick lit " of the time. So for any readers wondering "why does Joyce write in such a weird way? Why can't he write like other authors?" he shows he can write in any style he chooses. The lists that start out logical and then veer into the ridiculous with rhyming words, or words that are associated but odd, again remind me of jazz or even rap.

[Petra]

Cosmic, hoof-and-mouth disease certainly seems to run through this book, doesn't it? I have no idea about connections. Was there an epidemic in Ireland around the time of writing this book? Or is it an inside joke about people putting their foot into their mouths?

Robin, I've asked myself the same sort of question: "why is Joyce pushing his readership away rather than pulling them close?". I like this book and yet still find it hard to get through.

[Petra]

Episode 14 (Oxen Of The Sun)


Schmoop summary:
http://www.shmoop.com/ulysses-joyce/e...

Schmoop analysis:
http://www.shmoop.com/ulysses-joyce/o...

SparkNotes:
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/ulysses...

The Ulysses Reading Project blog:
http://ulyssesreadingproject.blogspot...

[Petra]

This was my favorite episode when I first read the book. I really liked it this time, too.
However, I didn't remember how difficult it was to get through or all the various writing styles. And I either never "got" or completely forgot that Joyce was emulating various authors & writers. That is a cool thing!
Still a favorite episode.

Bloom is still an outsider (sad) but he meets Stephen (yay!).

I liked how Joyce went through the phases of the English language as a form of gestation, change, growth.

[Angela M]

I'll be a little behind this week . Visiting family for a few days so won't get to it to later in the week but I'll catch up .

[Gill]

Angela wrote: "Ok - I'll start . We finally reached the part that got Ulysses banned ! I have to say that I honestly didn't think it was as explicit as I expected . Maybe it was looked at differently in 1922.


..."I liked this section a lot, and I agree that it was much tamer than I expected. Though we are looking at it nearly a century later. That's a thought, a get together for the centenary of 1912!

[Petra]

I just looked at the schedule for Episode 15:
Dec 15: Chapter 15 (Circe) pages 308-428 (last words: "waistcoat pocket.")

Yikes!! Most of our sections are about 40 pages or less. This coming week's reading is over 100 pages! I'm not sure I'll get through that in time but I'm trying.

[Laurel]

I've gotten stalled on this whole project. But planning to continue it through the winter. Hopefully, I will catch up by March or so!

[Petra]

Laurel, I hope you don't stall for too long. We miss your comments. Feel free to pop in and comment at any time, even if you haven't read the section.

How is everyone doing with the read? Comments this week are sparse. :(
Where's everyone at?

I'm getting close to 1/3 through Episode 15. It's quite funny! :)

[Angela M]

I've been away for the last week and haven't had much time to read so I'm a bit behind . I hope to read Episode 14 over the weekend and I will post my comments then . I'll catch up with 15 during the week .

We had a great time visiting family in NYC , celebrating family birthdays and spending a day in the city . I'm behind on my reading and have a lot to catch up on in AAB and my other groups !

[Petra]

I'm glad that you had such a lovely time, Angela! Welcome back!
No rush......we'll be here.

[Petra]

Episode 15 - Circe

YouTube clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5zfn...

SparkNotes:
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/ulysses...

The Sheila Variations:
http://www.sheilaomalley.com/?p=7626

15. CIRCE
TIME: 12.00 midnight.
SCENE: Bella Cohen's Brothel, Tyrone Street in the red-light district, or 'Nighttown'.
ART: magic
SYMBOL: Whore
TECHNIQUE: Hallucination

Homeric Parallels: After visiting the LESTRYGONIANS, in book 10 of The Odyssey Odysseus tells of landing on Circe's isle. On the island the crew splits into two groups, one of which, upon finding the hall of the witch Circe, are transformed into hogs.
One man escapes and warns Odysseus who approaches Circe alone. Odysseus is intercepted by Hermes who gives him a herb, moly (Molly??), which will protect him against Circe's "witch's tricks" which might "unman" him.
Odysseus demands that Circe release his men. She not only releases them, but entertains the whole crew "until a year grew fat". Eventually his men tell him to shake off this trance, and he departs from the isle, following Circe's advice to consult the shades in HADES.

Summary: A 'realistic' synopsis of this episode is difficult, but, broadly... Mabbot Street opens onto Nighttown, a strange and sordid place. Stephen and Lynch stagger in drunk and are mocked by the denizens of the place.
Bloom follows, events and characters (Gerty, Molly, his father and mother) stimulating his mind and sense of guilt in an hallucinatory fashion. Bloom is arrested for committing a nuisance and undergoes a protracted Kafkaesque trial. His identity constantly changes as characters from his past and 'personifications' of perverse desires enter the court.
Bloom speaks with one of the whores, Zoe Higgins, who knows where Stephen is. This stimulates scenes of an imaginary triumph for Bloom, who becomes an example of the "new womanly man", gives birth, and is then farcically pilloried after the temper of the court changes. He returns to 'reality' and finds Stephen in the music room, while also becoming his own grandfather and thinking about his past loves.
In a discussion on theology Stephen metamorphoses into Cardinal Dedalus. Meanwhile, Bella Cohen the madame of the place appears. She and Bloom change sex and ritual sado-masochistic humiliations of Bloom ensue.
Stephen, in his drunkenness, is attempting to settle his bill. Bloom ensures that he isn't cheated. The ghost of Stephen's mother appears, he breaks the chandelier, and they end up on the street.
A fight with some English privates leaves Stephen prostrate on the pavement. The police appear, but Corny Kelleher and Bloom smooth things over. Bloom gazes at the unconscious Stephen, and experiences a vision of his dead son Rudy.

[Angela M]

Episode 14

The best part for me was that Bloom and Stephen finally meet ! The hard thing was trying to understand what was going on with the changes in writing style ! Thankfully , the summaries and analyses explained this and I must admit I thought it was brilliant even though I did not know whose style Joyce was mimicking and was not familiar with some of the writers .

Brilliant - but I have to admit that it is getting tiresome to have to read summaries and analyses to get what is going on . But we are on the home stretch .

So the father - son theme has been reflected here and it will be interesting if it continues .

I still don't like Buck Mullugan !

Hope to catch up with Episode 15 in the next day or two .

Petra , thanks for the links .

[Petra]

I don't like Buck either.

Without the analysis' I would never have figured out that the style of Episode 14 emulates various author's over time.
However, I loved this episode in terms of the development of language....from archaic, medieval times to ultra-modern, slang. The transition throughout the episode was done almost seamlessly. As we read along, the style modernizes, adapts, morphs but we don't really realize it until....what seems like suddenly....we realize that we're no longer reading medieval English but something more modern.
For me, the development of the English language, in the setting of the Maternity ward (development of fetus and birthing of new life), was ingenious.
This was my favorite episode in 2010. I may have missed the bit about the authors and so much more that this episode may contain but the development & birth of language made this episode a winner (to me).

ETA: Angela, if you can get through Episode 15 in a day or two, I applaud you. It's incredibly well done and completely psychedelic.....and very long. :D
Can't wait to discuss it. I'm almost finished with this episode; will finish it today, for sure.

[Angela M]

Sounds like it may be longer than a few days ! I haven't even started it yet !

[Gill]

I liked the development of language in section 14 also. I read it with a list of all the different language styles included next to me. I thought it was quite good fun.

Section 15 is very long!

[Petra]

Gill, that would have been fun! Seeing the list of different language styles, I mean.
In 2010, this was the first episode where I thought that maybe, perhaps I had glimpsed a bit about what Joyce was doing in this book. I think I'll always have a soft spot for this episode because of that (and I had fun reading it, both times).

I'm very surprised at how much I'm enjoying episode 15. It's crazy fun (with some very dark sides)!

[Gill]

This page has some info about the styles, although I used one which had more detail (but I can't remember where I got it from!)
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/ulysses...

[Angela M]

Thanks for the link ,Gill . I'll take a look . Any help in better understanding is most welcome!

[Petra]

Thanks, Gill!

I finished Episode 15 and have to say that I loved the imagery of the stage directions. LOL! I would love to see this episode done on stage. What a hoot that would be!
That said, there are some disturbing revelations about our Leopold Bloom made here......yet, in the end, he's true to form. He doesn't desert Stephen; he sticks by him and makes sure he's okay. Gotta like that about the guy.
All in all, I liked the psychedelic and crazy feel of this episode.

[Robin P]

I agree about psychedelic. Maybe Joyce was a secret time-traveler who had experienced the drug trips of the 60's and music videos of the 90's. Just kidding, but what did happen in his time was surrealism and Freudianism both stressing the interplay between dreams and life. I thought that both Bloom's humiliation and his later coronation, in fact almost everything in the chapter are dreams or drunken fantasies. The way things keep changing is totally dreamlike.

Has anyone tried to make a movie of this book? It would be very difficult to do the parts where the style is a big part of the message, but for this part , it could certainly be portrayed as a hallucinogenic vision. Or maybe going back and forth from "reality" to vision.

[Evelyn]

I am about halfway through episode 14 - are they really drinking in the same building that women are giving birth in? Does that seem weird to anyone else?

[Petra]

It could probably be done nowadays, Robin, what with all the computer technology and such forth. However, someone would have to understand what Joyce was getting at before putting the book to film. That would be the hard part. LOL!