The Core (Demon Cycle #5)

[Margo]

Peggy wrote: "Not related to the book, but I've really enjoyed reading this entire series with (almost) the same group of people, with a few months in between books.

It would be nice to do it again, with anothe..."

Yes! I was going to make the same suggestion :-D It would be preferable to do another complete series like The Final Empire.

[Peggy]

I thought you would be up for it ;-) Head on over: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Sarah]

I've read some more. I'm in chapter 16 (view spoiler)[Hasn't Renna changed?! She has definitely grown up and is less annoying. Seems like she has more control of her powers now. I've been enjoying her insights and interactions with the Painted Children. Looks like she's going to get them in order. I think Arlen was right not to do it although perhaps it would have gone a bit easier without a child dying. They will be a valuable asset as the swarm comes. I am also liking that Renna is being more open to Leesha as well as the Krasian ways, asking Shanvah to collect her tears over Rojer. Also, no declarations of love so far so I'm guessing you'll be pleased Jannene!

I loved that Arlen was reunited with Ragan and Elissa. And the other guy Derek. I couldn't remember who he was but they when they mentioned Brayan's gold, I knew it was from the novella. Still cannot remember exactly but clearly Arlen thinks highly of him.

I don't like that everyone is putting their affairs in order. Arlen has written a will, although he did state that everyone thought him dead anyway and everyone he has bequeathed stuff to can have it straight away. I have a sense of impending doom coming.

Jardir's return to Krasia was interesting. I'm curious if his mother will change tack now and support Inevera and Jardir's wishes generally. Asome is being eaten up with guilt. Too right! His reaction to Jardir showing up was mental. That's basically where I've stopped in the chapter.
(hide spoiler)]

[Peggy]

I'll pick it up again in a few minutes. I'm also reading one of the group read books, so I'm a bit slow.

[Peggy]

Finished chapter 8: (view spoiler)[ Hasik has truly lost his mind. He's gone crazy! (hide spoiler)]

[Jannene]

Peggy wrote: "I'll pick it up again in a few minutes. I'm also reading one of the group read books, so I'm a bit slow."

Faster than me. I haven’t started. I have had 2 birthday celebrations so far this month! (Husband and Father in Law)

[Sarah]

Agreed Peggy. But perhaps (view spoiler)[ he has a role to play in Sharak Ka, even if he's totally lost it. Lol (hide spoiler)]

[Peggy]

He might. Although he said (view spoiler)[ he's not interested in Sharak Ka or killing demons anymore. Actually, I'm not sure what he's trying to achieve with his army of eunuchs.

I wonder if they all have the same 'issues' as Abban, who's constantly wetting himself. Imagine the stench! (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

I think they do Peggy (view spoiler)[Hasik mentioned something about people not wanting to be near him because of the smell of piss! Maybe it improves once things have healed?!

I'm guessing as soon as the demons swarm they'll be interested in fighting Sharak Ka! (hide spoiler)]

[Esther]

Peggy wrote: "Finished chapter 8:"
(view spoiler)[
[ Hasik has truly lost his mind. He's gone crazy!
crazy or desperate to clutch at whatever power he can?
(hide spoiler)]

[Peggy]

Esther, both maybe, but the way he goes about things, 'crazy' is definitely part of it.

[Jannene]

Finished prologue. (view spoiler)[I didn’t get the entire consort thing. Was that the Princling they caught? I am assuming the heir is Arlen since the other is wearing a crown. I liked how they put wards on him. (hide spoiler)]

[Jannene]

Margo wrote: "I'm not finding much time for reading at the moment but I did get to listen to the prologue."

I felt the same way Margo.

[Peggy]

Jannene wrote: "Finished prologue. [spoilers removed]"

I think the Heir is Jardir, the Hunter is Renna, the Explorer is Arlen. They were also mentioned by name in my prologue, but I agree that that whole thing was a bit confusing.

[Peggy]

Sarah wrote: "Following on from my chapter 12 spoiler "

Indeed. And there's also (view spoiler)[ Melny carrying a baby. I totally forgot about that and am not sure whether it's important. (hide spoiler)]

[Peggy]

Sarah wrote: "Oh my! "

My thoughts have been very similar to yours. Also, (view spoiler)[ is Briar Inevera's cousin? Because Aisha would recognize the cousin by his smell? Did we know this already? It actually doesn't surprise me, given how many wives the Krasian men have. I'm sure everyone within a tribe is related to everyone else somehow..

Did we think Asome was dead? Or do you mean his lover, Asu-something? I also didn't remember Asome thought Aisha was dead. Ooh this is all a bit confusing. (hide spoiler)]

[Jannene]

Chapter 1 and 2
(view spoiler)[What the hell is in the author’s head to make the baby have both parts? One sick individual would think that up and why? I hope it is revealed later. As I figured, her baby is speculated to be the deliverer. (hide spoiler)]

I’m still looking forward to see if Elona really is pregnant and if it is Gared’s.

[Jannene]

Chapter 3
(view spoiler)[So Elona is really pregnant and we don’t know if it really is Gared’s. I’m so hoping not. (hide spoiler)]

[Margo]

Jannene wrote: "Chapter 1 and 2
[spoilers removed]

I’m still looking forward to see if Elona really is pregnant and if it is Gared’s."

(view spoiler)[it can happen in real life, why not in a fantasy story? Re prologue: I was relieved to see others confused by that 😲 (hide spoiler)]

[Margo]

Chapter 6 (view spoiler)[ poir Shanvah (sounds like). I can't imagine what she is going through seeing her father to a shell and a puppet of the creture he spent his life trying to destroy.
Arlens reaction to Rennas news was predictable! She put him down but part of me agrees with him. The fact that the demon was trying to put her off going makes me think. Is he afraid of her? (hide spoiler)]

[Margo]

Chapter 7 (view spoiler)[ what a cruel and brutal chapter. I have to admit I fast forwarding and everywhere I stopped to listen was worse than what I had heard before :'( (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Jannene wrote: "Chapter 3
[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ I do not see her sleeping around with anyone else, so if it is not her husband's, it could only be Gared's. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

My other thoughts on Chapter 5
(view spoiler)[ Re - the Stella and Ellen "girl talk": RUDE!
Re - The Children: I do not like any of them, and I cannot think of what Leesha is going to do with, nor about them. I thought it was interesting about how they are divided up but I did not quite get how it is done.
Re - the Tender - Is he making stuff up about Arlen?
Re - Briar - I do not blame him for wanting to go "home". (hide spoiler)].

[Peggy]

About the boy/girl thing: (view spoiler)[ it can indeed happen, but not like in the book. In real life, a baby would be born with genitals that are a crossing between male and female, but not with two complete sets as happened in the book. I found that a bit weird too.. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

Peggy wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Following on from my chapter 12 spoiler "

Indeed. And there's also [spoilers removed]"

Re Asome/Asukaji chapter 16 (view spoiler)[I was talking about Asome in my spoiler about him having dreams about his father showing that he is being eaten up by guilt. But yes, I was surprised that Asukaji was alive after Ashia snapped his neck. Great that Jardir healed him. Hopefully the both of them will gain some sense and honour now. Wondering if "coming out" will be a thing at this point. Push'ting has always been a sin for the Krasians so hopefully they can move past this now. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

Jannene wrote: "Chapter 1 and 2
[spoilers removed]

I’m still looking forward to see if Elona really is pregnant and if it is Gared’s."

(view spoiler)[Brett hasn't just made this up. It actually happens in real life. Babies born with both sex parts are known as hermaphrodite or intersex It is actually more common than you think. I read some statistics on it last year that it is as common as those with red hair. I love that Brett has included an intersex child in this. He's being all inclusive here and tackling other LGBTIQ issues throughout the story too. I also love that Leesha is against them cutting her males parts off. This is something that has been done in the past in reality with doctors choosing what sex the child should live out it's life. This has caused a lot of upset and confusion for the children in the future when they've identified more with the other sex. It is much better for the child to grow and make the decision for itself. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

re Briar, Peggy (view spoiler)[when Amanavah and Ineverah caste the dice and found out about the cousin they'd know by smell, I did not think of Briar but it makes sense completely now you've said it. I think it would be really good if it as. Briar mentioned he was heading back to Lakton and Ashia is on her way there to find Hasik and Abban so it is likely they will meet there. Because he is half Greenlander and half Krasian, perhaps it will win Inevera over a bit more to the Greenlanders. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

Peggy wrote: "About the boy/girl thing: [spoilers removed]"

Pretty sure it can be that complete (view spoiler)[any variation is possible. For some, their internal sex organs don't match their internal. Others might have both sets internal or external. For some people, it isn't even obvious that they are intersex unless testing is done but for others it is a lot more obvious externally. (hide spoiler)]

[Peggy]

Boy/girl: (view spoiler)[ yes, definitely there's variation. But to me it felt like Brett meant the child had two perfect sets next to each other, while I thought that in intersexuals the one is part of the other. As boy/girl genitals develop from the space place, there's still one set of genitals, but instead of fully male or female, it's some combination of both. Not sure of I can explain it clearly. (hide spoiler)]

Push'ting: (view spoiler)[ I had the impression fron the other books that it isn't a sin per se, and is often tolerated (you're not persecuted or degraded to being khaffit) as long as you make sure you have a male heir. The heir is what counts, whatever else you do is your own business. (hide spoiler)]

[Margo]

Boy/girl: (view spoiler)[ I'm with Sarah on this. My understanding is that it can, in rare cases, be as Brett has discribed. I also saw some stats recently that were an eye opener. It is one those things that people don't mention in "nice" conversation. In our culture it is swept under the rug. In antient times it was celebrated. In some cultures those rare people were thought to powerful, shaman-like. I say good for Brett! He has got this group discussing the issue. It is not shameful or unnatural. It is nature in all its variations :-) (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

Love what you've written Margo, especially (view spoiler)[about how intersex people were viewed back in the day. Very interesting. And yes, it's great that a book can generate discussion like this. Especially when you're not expecting it. (hide spoiler)]

[Peggy]

Question about ch 13 (view spoiler)[ who are derek, stasy and jef again? They sound familiar but I can't place them. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

I just finished chapters 6,7 and 8.
(view spoiler)[ Abban sure created the mother of all monsters when he castrated Hasik and let him live, didn't he?!!! (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

Peggy wrote: "Question about ch 13 [spoilers removed]"

I couldn't remember at first either. When detek mentioned brayan's gold it made me think they featured in the brayan's gold novella. But i might be wrong.

[Sarah]

Just checked Brett's website Peggy (view spoiler)[ and I'm right about those characters mentioned in chapter 13. They are from Brayan's Gold) Also Briar was first introduced in Messenger’s Legacy). There is another novella but doesn't introduce new characters, kust focuses on Arlen and Jardir. (hide spoiler)]

[Peggy]

Thanks Sarah! I haven't read the novellas. I think they may have been mentioned in previous books but as very minor characters. Which is probably why I don't remember the details. I was surprised (view spoiler)[ that Derek was among the selected few Arlen chose to see, as all the others are people very close to him. I'm really glad he visited his friends before he leaves for the core. I hope they make it out alive.. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

I am up to chapter 17 and going to sleep now...

[Margo]

Peggy wrote: "Thanks Sarah! I haven't read the novellas. I think they may have been mentioned in previous books but as very minor characters. Which is probably why I don't remember the details. I was surprised [..."

The mention of those characters confused me as well. I don't think that is quite fair as many readers, like me, haven't read the novellas. There are so many characters to keep track of at this stage 😲

[Margo]

Cherie wrote: "I just finished chapters 6,7 and 8.
[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[he certainly did Cherie! I found those chapters very hard to read and they didn't add much to the progress of the story. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

Margo and Cherie re chapters 6-8 (view spoiler)[I guess we have to trust that it will all make sense in the end the parts everyone plays. It may not feel like it progresses the story but we've not finished it yet so who knows!

Also Hasik has a point, without their manhood guiding their desires and life generally as in the past, they have less distractions and can get on with what they want to actually do.

I think the eunuch element is tying in with the general theme of gender role changes, sexuality, and what the external genitalia can determine in these people's cultures. How making gender and sexuality no longer an issue, anyone can rise up, play their part it sharak ka, love who they want, and life their life. With the eunuchs included, i think he's covered all bases. No transgender yet. But give it time. (hide spoiler)]

[Margo]

@Sarah (view spoiler)[ I get the eunich army, painful though it is :O What I am found hard to deal with was the daily tortue visited on Abban and the pain inflicted on the maid (I can't recall her name) and her children. Hasik has a mania for chopping things off! Yes, yes, I get the symbolism ;-)

Personally I hated Hasik enough for his repeated rapes of Abbans wife and daughters and for cutting the genitals off of every man he met. I didn't need to know about tougues, noses and other tortues. I get it - the man is BAD NEWS LOL

I love most directions modern fantasy has taken, but I can't come to terms with the brutality. It is as if one is trying to outdo another for shock value

(hide spoiler)]

[Peggy]

Totally agree with you on that Margo.

[Jannene]

Chapter 4
(view spoiler)[Rojer’s funeral was pretty sad. I still don’t know why the author had to kill him off. (hide spoiler)]

Boy/Girl(view spoiler)[I know that there are people born with both sexual organs. I just don’t know why the author had to add this bit into the story. Maybe it will be revealed in the future but it kind of weirds me out. (hide spoiler)]

[Jannene]

Chapter 5
(view spoiler)[I feel bad fro Briar. It was like he was raped and then laughed at. I don’t think he was a totally willing party. It is kind of sad to see him being used like that. (hide spoiler)]

[Jannene]

Chapter 6
(view spoiler)[Ah, that is how they were talking to the mind demon and it was talking to them. It is sad that they used Shanjat. That is quite sad.

Ugh. Seriously Renna is pregnant with Arlen’s baby?

Good grief! Is there anyone that isn’t pregnant?? (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

I am reading chapter 19. (view spoiler)[ it just kills me that Keerin, of all people, is playing Rojer's music and Elissa is preparing herself to protect him. (hide spoiler)].

[Sarah]

I felt that Cherie too (view spoiler)[but he seems to learn a lot (and grow up) from the experience. (hide spoiler)]

I'm in chapter 22. I'll comment a bit later when i'm on my laptop.

[Sarah]

chapter 22(view spoiler)[I am pleased that Jardir went to see Olive and Leesha and that Arlen and Renna went to see their family in Tibbets Brook. It is lovely to see how everyone has changed and developed over the years and how they have been touched by the courage of Arlen.

I'm not sure what the demons are up to, destroying all the Euchor's watch posts along the route that Ragan and Elissa are taking. Do they hold something important? Is it because the mind had access to Arlen's thoughts and know who Ragan and Elissa are? Is it the stash of demon bones they carry? Or do they know something we don't. Someone did mention that there was no deliverer in Miln. Could they become joint deliverer?! I thought that the demons only became more intelligent when the minds were around but they were definitely showing forethought and tactics. Hmmm.

I couldn't believe the reaction Ragan and Elissa got upon their return to Miln. Euchor is really insecure. The grilling they got was outrageous, trying to trip them up and say the wrong thing. And so what if Arlen was their adopted son?! And for Derek and his family to be put under house arrest. Some interesting developments though with Elissa's mum having cancer and them inheriting Morning County and the titles. They are definitely climbing the ranks and can have greater influence.

Vincin is a piece of work. I hope he calls a meeting soon to reinstate Ragan as Guildmaster.

I was surprised by Mery's reaction to Arlen's letter and Arlen generally. I get she had her heart broken but she really has been brainwashed by what everyone else says about him. I was a bit disappointed in her. I hope things change.

And yes Peggy, you were right about Briar being the cousin, or at least I think that's the case. Briar has caught up with Ashia and Kaji. She can smell him but he has not revealed himself to her yet.

Interesting development with regards to Barren (I can't remember her actual name now) Selia? Sybil? I think it starts with an S anyway. She is a lesbian. Hence why she never got married and had kids (and got called Barren). I am now very curious about what the new novella will be like to find out more about her as a character.
(hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

Jannene wrote: "Chapter 6"

(view spoiler)[they didn't use Shanjat by choice the first time. The mind took him over by force. Then once he'd done the damage and the others had warded his skin, there was no other option but to use Shanjat again for future correspondence. It is sad. I can see why they chose to do it though. But still sad. It must be devastating for Shanvah to see. (hide spoiler)]

[Sarah]

re gore etc in fantasy(view spoiler)[It's not that I don't notice it, but it doesn't affect me all that much. I agree with you guys that it isn't always needed and including it just for the sake of it is pointless. However, the world in which many of the fantasy series are set are often dangerous and as such, bad things happen, and sometimes that can be violence and death. And if there was none of that written about in those stories, I'd have thought that the story was unrealistic. It needs to be there, or at least some level of it. The amount at which is detailed and the words used to describe it will obviously make a difference to how disgusting it is for the reader. It doesn't always need to be explicit. I mentioned earlier about the explicit sex scenes and language in other series. To me, if it fits the world and characters within the book, it is well placed in my eyes. Even if it makes me uncomfortable. This book is grimdark, although not like others within the genre. And as such, it portrays the dark side of these worlds, the reality of it, and doesn't hide from things. It tends to include some of the topics which might not be included in other fantasy stories.

Re Hasik and Abban(view spoiler)[What Hasik is doing to Abban is awful. I don't have the words to describe it. But it fits with who Hasik is and the relationship that has developed between him and Abban. And so to me, it's well placed. If it wasn't there, we would not fully get the full depth of the dynamics and the hate that Hasik has for Abban. (hide spoiler)] That's just me though. I realise that everyone has different tolerance levels too which plays a part.
(hide spoiler)]