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The Wise Man's Fear
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notw: So the good stuff is in book two?
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I kind of agree with you in general although not entirely in degree. I found there were lots of wonderful little things that I found engaging in book 1. There's all these wonderful turns of phrase and ways of looking at the world that increase my respect for Rothfuss as an author. But on the other hand, I had the same "get to the reveals already" experience. Kvothe keeps seeming to get sidetracked. I really think people need to remember that as awesome a human being as Rothfuss seems to be in his personal life, this is his debut novel. It's compelling and dripping with promise, but the pacing and over-arching plotting are uneven, at least to me. I'm really interested in what novels this man turns out 5 to 10 years from now, but I don't think he's perfect yet. The second book has some interesting bits but also some ridiculous bits as well.
Like you I loved the prose and you make an excellent point which had not occurred to me in that it is a first novel and an ambitious one at that. I am not really aware of Rothfuss reputation other than his books are held in high esteem so I'll differ to you in that aspect.
He's started a charity, he's kind to fans, loves his kids, and has done all sorts of amusing things at conventions with other authors. People like him. http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/2013/...
I got lucky, I was given this book about a month after it came out, and read it soon after. So, there wasn't the hype built up around it. I really enjoyed it, and very much looked forward to the 2nd book, witch I also enjoyed. I'm not even sure I knew at the time I read NOTW if it was only going be a trilogy, or thought it might be a longer series, so it didn't bother me that the ending was of a smaller scale then going after the Chandrian. While the 2nd book continues the story, and expands the world significantly, it also doesn't have any Huge resolutions. In fact it just leads to more open questions. I would not let that stop you from reading it, just know it going in.
I picked up the first two books after watching the series of author discussions Pat did on geek and sundry. There are some excellent prose but its not really a story about things getting resolved or things happening. There is a lot of world building and stuff about the every day life of the Kvothe. But he doesn't really put in any effort to do anything about Chandrian after people make fun of him for thinking they're real in the first book.
About the biggest resolution in book 2 is Kvothe becoming financially secure.
I'm not sure how much resolution we'll get in book 3 either. More questions, more world building, some plot lines tied up certainly. But ultimately things go very badly and book 3's flashbacks end with Kvothe and Bast buying an inn in a small village in the middle of nowhere.
Alain wrote: " maybe the Chandrian are more prominent in book two and three... "The Chandrian are almost nonexistent in book 2. He spends far more time investigating his own sexuality than he does the Chandrian. I don't blame him since he still isn't in their league and would certainly die.
I came across this book randomly on the shelves one day and read almost 50% of it. I loved the depth of the world and richness of the details. I also love the ways he made magic more of a discipline akin to engineering rather that something mystical or religious. I did feel that the protagonist was a little too perfect, and like some of the other posters, it bothered me that nothing much seemed to get resolved and very little was fully explained.
Dustin wrote: "Alain wrote: " maybe the Chandrian are more prominent in book two and three... "The Chandrian are almost nonexistent in book 2. He spends far more time investigating his own sexuality than he doe..."
You are probably right in your assessment that he isn’t powerful enough to deal with them we think. Truth is we don’t know much about them and neither does Kvothe. So far we have attributed two massacres to them. The motivation was seemingly to keep important information out of the hands of for lack of a better word mortals of this world . How do the Chandrian know that something important or dangerous needs to be acted on? After all they are hardly unknown in this world. For example they are featured in children’s songs and are used as bogeyman to keep said children in line. Kvothe’s father had been collecting stories from all over the place to produce his song. Chandrian stories aren’t rare and they are still known by the common man even if most people think of them as legends.
After hearing Skarpi’s account of the Chandrian that spurred him out of the downward spiral of Kvothe's prior three years he does precious little to find out more about them. True that was partly due to circumstances of being banned from the Stacks but Kvothe was clearly passive in regards to something he supposedly has a burning desire to elucidate. So I was looking for some sort of reveal in regards to the Chandrian but that did not happen.
Book 1 is Kvothe Kingkiller's Schooldays. Book 2 is Kvothe Gets To Know Some Ladies....Biblically.
Rob wrote: "Book 1 is Kvothe Kingkiller's Schooldays. Book 2 is Kvothe Gets To Know Some Ladies....Biblically."Hmmm that really does not make me want to read tome 2. I might wait to see book 3 drop before I determine whether to go forward with the series.
Some of the criticism seems directed at book 1 being a huge prologe, and I guess I can understand where that comes from.For me, Book 1 is very interesting in that it turns a fantasy world into a normal world. Kvothe the kid has his head full of magic stories, only to learn in a very real and hard way that the world is not like in the stories. In a way is very refreshing, and I liked it even more because of it. And yet, you know that there is magic and supernatural - but it is really hidden, magic for the people in the four corners is as much as mistery as it is for us.
Book 2 then is the coming into magic book.
As for other criticism... Kvothe is between 14-15 years in Book 1, financially broke, emotionally abandoned... and yet everyone wants him to blindly follow the track of the Chandrian? I think the description is a very real one..."yes I have a burning desire to avenge my parents death, but first I need to make ends meet or I will starve to death".
In a way is a deconstruction of classic heroes... Kvothe exploits are so adorned by the local people, that the real story of a real boy/man is lost. Kvothe tries to show that heroes are normal people, that their futures were not always as clear, and that the groundworks of a story are always more mundane and gray that the fairy tale we weave around them.
As for the sex bit on Book 2... yeah is a rather large chunk, but then again is not such a big portion of the overall book. Was perhaps longer that needed be, but is not (by any strech of imagination) of what book 2 is about.
I didn't necessarily want him to blindly pursue the Chandrian. I did want him to start finding clues. Stories, or books maybe. I don't think that's Kvothe's fault. I think it's Rothfuss' fault.
Let me clarify a bit my earlier comment-- both books have a lot of "the good stuff." It's just for Rothfuss the good stuff isn't high fantasy typical grand quests. It's about peeling back the image of a drizzt-esque insanely powerful genius badass! and going "ok, what would his life and world actually be like? What would a magic school be like? How would classes work? What would he do for money? What kind of stuff would happen to him when he began to wander the world a bit, to grow up a bit more, and start forming relationships and histories with other people, sexual and otherwise?" If you didn't like the lack of progress in the overarching plot in the first book, the second book will also frustrate you, and all indications are that the third will infuriate you. From the first book alone it's pretty clear that we're not being set up for a satisfying ending. But if you liked any of the stuff in the first book, the second is even better.
Joanna wrote: "I didn't necessarily want him to blindly pursue the Chandrian. I did want him to start finding clues. Stories, or books maybe. I don't think that's Kvothe's fault. I think it's Rothfuss' fault."Take into account that the University events in Book 1 seem long, but is less than a years time - in research, specially into a subject that its actively concealed, is not much time at all. You kinda have to wait for a lucky break.
I actually enjoyed the first book more than the second. If you think Kvothe gets sidetracked in this one, just wait till you read TWMF. I was so bored during the whole Felurian/Adem section that I thought about lemming. Rothfuss is a wonderful writer, but I really wish he would tighten up the storyline.
Yeah that story had me stir-crazy in TWMF...I'm hoping there is a significant payout for sitting through that.
Yes, there is sex in TWMF, but it isn't at all a major theme. The Felurian part was about starting to understand what happened when Jax stole the moon. It also provided more insight into what Kvothe could be as a namer, provided a prophetic doom worthy of a Greek tragedy, and allowed him to acquire his shaed. The Adem section allowed Kvothe to relearn some level of calmness and peace, understand the power of words (especially for a namer), and level up his fighting prowess. And both parts are wrapped up in getting his hands on a certain box (view spoiler)Also, when you are trying to make a place for yourself in the world, spending obvious time searching for children's tales isn't going to help you. He even has to approach the issue obliquely with his friends, but he did actually do great deal in achieving his goal in the second book.
Joanna wrote: "I didn't necessarily want him to blindly pursue the Chandrian. I did want him to start finding clues. Stories, or books maybe. I don't think that's Kvothe's fault. I think it's Rothfuss' fault."That I agree with wholeheartedly.
i thought it was a poor book with horrible cliche's and the part with the dragoon was too silly to put into words but somehow the author managed it.
Pickle wrote: "i thought it was a poor book with horrible cliche's and the part with the dragoon was too silly to put into words but somehow the author managed it."You aren't fooling anyone Luke Burrage.
So, don't go to the re-readers thread. It is full of unhidden spoilers and rampant speculation. But in it, I was pointed at Jo Walton's hyper-analyzed reread of books one and two. http://www.tor.com/features/series/pa... There's the link, but beware, rampant spoilers. But reading it has made me realize that there were clues. I just did not recognize them for what they were. My appreciation of the books has just gone up considerably.
Joanna wrote: "So, don't go to the re-readers thread. It is full of unhidden spoilers and rampant speculation. But in it, I was pointed at Jo Walton's hyper-analyzed reread of books one and two...."Thanks for the heads up about the reread thread. I have avoided so far for the reason you stated. I saw that Jo Walton had a reread and avoided it for fear of spoilers. I really enjoy reading her fiction criticism in general and well its making me waver on when or if I read the second novel if only to have a reason to read her articles.
The Tor reread is great, and very spoilery. Make sure to read the one where Jo and commentors got to ask Pat questions. It isn't a quick read, though it is much shorter than the WOT reread.
The Wise Man's Fear meanders even worse than this did, I think. You could probably extract 600 of the 1100 pages of it and what's left would be significant-ish and fluffy still.
Having now reread both books and reading the rereader's thread, I have come to the conclusion that all three books are going to be necessary to really understand the first book. There all these little teasing hints that I didn't notice on the first reading that seem very meaningful later. Things I thought were fluff ended up being pretty important. It makes me wonder whether Rothfuss was just too clever for his own good, with so many of his readers missing this the first time around. Because the rereader's thread has Lord of the Rings-level analysis and it all seems quite and very plausible.
Dustin wrote: "Alain wrote: " maybe the Chandrian are more prominent in book two and three... "The Chandrian are almost nonexistent in book 2. He spends far more time investigating his own sexuality than he doe..."
BEHOLD THE SEX GOD!
It was the worst aspect of book 2 IMHO. There was a definate streak of adolecent (small f) fantasy in book 2 where he learns to please ladies and becomes a badass.
It is a real tribute to PR's skill that the thing was a good read and did not crash and burn dispite this.
Skip wrote: "Yes, there is sex in TWMF, but it isn't at all a major theme."
I would disagree
(view spoiler)
After reading some of the comments in this, and other, threads, I get the impression some people would have responded to The Fellowship of the Ring with complaints of why didn't Gandalf just send Frodo to Mount Doom on the back of eagles. You know, that old complaint. I'm not trying to compare Rothfuss to Tolkien, nor The Kingkiller Chronicles with LOTR. It also brings to mind the old saying, "it's the journey, not the destination."While the journey in NotW and TWMF may not be to LOTR's standard, it is still a journey I felt worth the effort. The operative statement there is, "I felt...". I understand that these books may not be for everyone and that shouldn't diminish the enjoyment by others. However, what I'm getting at is the first 2 books are about the journey of Kvothe, not his destination. If what you want is to get to the Chandrian battle, it isn't going to be found in these pages. There are some clues about them, but these 1st two books are more about Kvothe growing up and into Kvothe the Kingkiller.
Having said that, if you find Kvothe a loathsome character or just not one you like, then the story probably isn't going to be for you. I don't like everything about the character (more flaws, less arrogance) but I do like enough to enjoy the books.
TLDR: The 1st two books are about the story of Kvothes early years. Don't like Kvothe, you probably won't like the books. And that is perfectly fine. Don't sweat it and move on.
I don't like Kvothe but I love the books for how the characters are explored and the sheer skill of the writing.You do not have to like the characters to like a book.
He may not have done half of the things he says he did since we are getting a biased account. Plus kvothes an asshole and as we have seen from his school days he can make up a lie in a second.
Nathan wrote: "I don't like Kvothe"Everyone is hatin on the gingers.
http://youtu.be/bUhLIjlTNSk
Gingers are people too!!!
Nathan wrote: "BEHOLD THE SEX GOD!..."Bast would argue that.
Kvothe's had what, weeks or months in-between. Bast had an afternoon.
Nathan wrote: "Skip wrote: "Yes, there is sex in TWMF, but it isn't at all a major theme."I would disagree
(view spoiler) "
I guess we had a difference sense of the weight of sex in TWMF. Unlike the Chandrian who aren't seen but always present, the sex is definitely present, but not as important as what else was happening.
(view spoiler)
I just finished Day 2 and I have to agree with those commenting around Kvothe's journey in the first and second books, as opposed to the resolution of the whole Chandrian storyline. I don't expect Day 3 to be much different as far as resolving everything, having him defeat the seven, etc. I think he'd get his ass kicked no matter how great he is at embellishing his own story.
For me, Kvothe's story is about his journey of self-discovery as he tries to find out as much as he can to get some kind of closure on what happened to his family. I'm going to be satisfied if we get that in the third book.
For me, the key that unlocked enjoyment of book 2 was when my significant other pointed out to me that I should think of it as three novellas, rather than as one novel.That changed my expectations of the story so much that I suddenly found I was enjoying it a lot more. It's the part in the middle of a video game where you go and do all the side quests, and meet companions.
Do you think there will be a resolution of the Chandrian storyline? I don't know why... but I have this feeling that Kvothe is so broken because he gave up everything (maybe even Denna) in his quest for revenge... only to fail at the end.
I think the Kvothe that we meet as the innkeeper hasn't even faced the Chandrian yet. He gave up after whatever happened with Denna.
Alain if you finished this book and didn't find "the good stuff" then this series just might not be for you, because this book is nothing but "the good stuff". Mystery, Tragedy, Suspense, (Awkward) Romance, Joy, Friendship, Bildungsroman, Magic, Social Injustice, Danger, Adventure, Exploration, Immersive Worldbuilding, Unreliable Narration... it's all in here.
Skip wrote: "Darren, in my mind you sound like Peter Falk (Princess Bride Reference)."
;-}
http://iurl.no/46530
Skip wrote: "Darren, in my mind you sound like Peter Falk (Princess Bride Reference)."
:D
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Jo Walton (other topics)Jo Walton (other topics)
Maybe I am being unduly harsh since I am judging a story that is only one third of the way through and maybe the Chandrian are more prominent in book two and three. Also I guess the King killing is in the forthcoming novels as well. The Name Of The Wind to me feels like a giant prologue. Setting the scene and wetting the appetite to the upcoming excitement which is unfortunately in the upcoming novels.
Despite that I did enjoy the novel but I was not wowed by it. Maybe my expectations were too high given the adulation Patrick Rothfuss has received recently.