A Court of Frost and Starlight
discussion
A case against the constant vilifying of Tamlin
Briana wrote: "And to keep this about Tamlin, I hope that he finds something or someone to bring about some healing. "I think Tamlin should have a chance to reconcile with his past deeds alone. I mean... his PTSD he wanted to deal with it on his own terms, alone. So by this same logic why would he even WANT someone else helping him heal, when he can very well do it himself and go on a personal journey of redemption.
You know who would actually help him get past this! Lucian. In my opinion their friendship as it is now is a complete dumpster fire of a relationship which Maas merely used to create drama.
If Maas were consistent she'd actually strengthen the bond between Lucian and Tamlin instead of breaking it apart. I mean why was Lucian distancing himself from Tamlin while Feyra was at the Spring Court, when he KNEW that his friend was a double-agent >.> Apparently he didn't for convenience's sake!
You know, I think it’s a common popular idea that characters must grow alone and have some journey alone but in Tamlins case, I think that’s counterproductive. Because in his case, his problem is that he already tries to do things alone. He won’t let anyone in, and tries to take too many burdens on his own. This has ruined his relationships as is.If anything, him learning to let others help him would be in his best interest. Lucien being one, like you mentioned. And tbh I’m not opposed to a love interest as well. For Tamlin to mend his dearest friendship (Lucien) and find love, I can’t fault that.
Nicko wrote: "I think Tamlin should have a chance to reconcile with his past deeds alone. I..."yeah looking back i can see how what i said might have come off like he needs someone in order to heal and i don't think that. i think that in order for someone to change they have to want to do that themselves so in that aspect i agree with you completely.
WinterRose wrote: "You know, I think it’s a common popular idea that characters must grow alone and have some journey alone but in Tamlins case, I think that’s counterproductive."
i understand this too and i agree. i think that somewhere in my mind i was thinking of how tamlin is already alone and he's currently suffering. i forgot how long it's been between acowar and acofas but it seems like he was slowly sinking lower and lower. i just didn't want him to be by himself but i don't think anyone is responsible for his healing.
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i also love the idea of lucien and tamlin mending their relationship. when it was mentioned in acofas that lucien would be going to visit tamlin at some point, i was very happy to hear it even though tamlin did what he did to lucien. i just hope that when it comes to that maas doesn't give the credit to rhys and feyre because i can see it going in that direction with rhys telling tamlin to eat and by lucien saying that rhys needs tamlin whether he wants to admit it or not. i just want characters to figure out things without feyre and/or rhys getting to play the morally superior role. i also hope that whatever redemption tamlin will have isn't presented in a way where feyre and rhys feel the need to approve or reject what he's doing.
Agreed! This might be an unpopular opinion but I’d like to see Feyre apologize to Tamlin as well. Ruining his court was petty and frankly, really stupid from a political/leadership perspective. His court = his people. That’s who suffers from her actions and it should be called out. I’d like to see Feyre and Tamlin BOTH own up to their failed relationship and be able to move forward. I don’t want to see Tamlin just groveling to everyone. Feyre needs to take some responsibility for her actions as well. (This seems to be a SJM trait: make her favs unapologetic and not take responsibility for things they’ve done wrong.)
Just want to say thank you for this thread! I know it's old now, but I'm so glad to not be alone in my thoughts about Tamlin!I enjoyed the series particularly the first two books, but the whole time just felt bad for Tamlin, like there was more he wasn't talking about. He certainly doesn't deserve all the negative energy aimed at him! I hope further books give us the opportunity to see things from Tamlins perspective as well as Lucien's!
I admit by the end of Frost and Starlight I was a bit over the cool kid group.. I'm not holding my breath for some extravagant story as it's pretty obvious that Freysand is always right and the hero of the tale. But I look forward to the next book.. they managed to distract me while in COVID lockdown!
Thanks again! :)
Joanne wrote: " I know it's old now, but I'm so glad to not be alone in my thoughts about Tamlin!"Oh don't worry, we're not letting the poor dead horse alone just yet. We still have a few more kicks to give it :D
Joanne wrote: "Just want to say thank you for this thread! I know it's old now, but I'm so glad to not be alone in my thoughts about Tamlin!I enjoyed the series particularly the first two books, but the whole t..."
It's hard to find people who actually want to discuss Tamlin and not just bash him. lol
I admit by the end of Frost and Starlight I was a bit over the cool kid group
You know, SJM has this weird way of making me dislike characters I don't ACTUALLY dislike, simply because of the way she writes - how she can't seem to write objectively. Whenever I feel like an author is trying to make me feel a certain way, it turns me off.
Because I really do like the inner circle characters, but somehow as a group they're almost too...cliquey? Maybe that's not the right word. Like SJM really wants this dream team of besties and is trying really, really hard to get that across to the reader. Somehow even their riffing feels forced and scripted.
WinterRose wrote: "You know, SJM has this weird way of making me dislike characters I don't ACTUALLY dislike, simply because of the way she writes - how she can't seem to write objectively..... Because I really do like the inner circle characters, but somehow as a group they're almost too...cliquey?"That's my thing with the possible Tamlin redemption. I don't want Tamlin groveling to them because SJM has a tendency to make it seem like everyone in the entire world caters to them. It has that Devil Wears Prada "everyone wants to be us" vibe and they're so narcissistic.
^Same! I mean I do expect an apology to Rhys for his involvement with his sister and mother, and I'd like he and Feyre both to talk it out and be able to move forward. But groveling I can do without.
Sam wrote: "I spent my lunch break reading this entire thread instead of finishing ACOFAS - No regrets. Firstly, hi everyone, but especially hi to Nicky for giving me this thread."
Honestly so much same here, especially with the fact that they could have left Tamlin alone in ACOFAS. What I would have done was let Feyre and Rhys work on healing themselves and their court in this book, I didn't mind the fluff as I said in my review but it was so regressive to have them kick Tamlin while he's already down. Then SJM was a coward about it because instead of making Feyre the one doing it, she made Rhys do it, excuse it as a "slip up" and Feyre got to be the morally superior one again.
I probably wrote this already or I probably didn't... who knows? This pandemic makes my mind fuzzy but I hated how everyone prioritized Feyre and Rhys' happiness above everyone else. Feyre is supposed to be an equal to Rhys but whenever Rhys continued to put Mor in situations that made her traumatized, Feyre was quiet because she didn't want to rock the boat but as far as we know, she never checked Rhys about it in private? It's like everyone around them has to play by different rules while making sure Feyre and Rhys' precious egos are protected.
I mentioned before that Feyre is sometimes written like a villain and I don't think SJM even realizes it. Feyre is vindictive, mean, and petulant a lot of times. On top of that she's selfish and an unapologetic narcissist which I wouldn't mind if she was a villain but she's all those things and then SJM wants us to sympathize with her. It's clear she wants us to love Rhys and root for Feyre. I understand morally gray characters but in my opinion in SJM's eyes Feyre is a light gray character when she actually writes her as being a couple of shades darker.
I can spend days talking about how annoying it is that Feyre is never wrong. People do horrible things on her behalf and she gets to play the soft morally superior role, Nesta is suffering with alcoholism and PTSD while Feyre is the martyr, Elain is going through PTSD but Feyre is slightly annoyed by her, the Inner Circle continuously attacks Tamlin verbally but since it's them doing it and not her the readers are meant to overlook it because they're just being loyal.
Then both Feyre and Rhys having the "I refuse to feel pity" when they reflect on how the Spring Court is in such bad shape just makes them double down on their horribleness... these aren't "good" people... Again, it would be FINE if they weren't meant to be looked at as the absolute best people in the entire universe.
I kind of wish that this was a villain origin story for Feyre. I loved Book 1 Rhys so much... HE was hot.
Book 1 Rhys was my favorite. When he was a questionable guy who dances along the antagonist/hero line. I honestly still like him a lot but again, SJM leaks her bias onto characters too much and unfortunately Rhys is another victim of that. How everyone overlooks what happened to the spring court is beyond me. It’s like they’re choosing to forget that a court isn’t one person - it’s literally thousands of people. Mothers, fathers, children, soldiers, peasants, etc. All of them are going to feel the effect of their “King” losing his army, leaving bc them weak and vulnerable to attack.
It’s frustrating bc I really wish Tamlin and Feyre (and Lucien) has instead teamed up to work against Hubert.
Lol Hybern. Sorry for the phone typos :)
hi guys!! been a while!You know what I find hilarious about the Feyre/ Tamlin/ Hybern situation was they fact that Feyre literally thought that Tamlin went to Hybern for HER!! Like what?? Talk about self-centered, thinking that you are so important that your ex would literally do a full 180 and work with the devil. To get who back?? You?? LMAO.
Nadia wrote: "Talk about self-centered, thinking that you are so important that your ex would literally do a full 180 and work with the devil. To get who back?? You??"It's funny you mention that, because I actually argued for the exact opposite in my review of my second reading of ACOMAF (analysis reread).
" Did Feyra actually BELIEVE that Tamlin would not go to war for her? Feyra, I give you Robert's Rebellion and the Trojan War *throws ASOIAF and the Illiad in Feyra's face*."
I argued this, because, given what we already know about Tamlin up until that point, it's perfectly within his established character to go after her. It's not a question about Feyra's self-centeredness (though given her narcissism it might certainly be a contributing factor) it's more a question of whether Tamlin himself would play the scorned lover card in his role as double agent.
so i was reading the other threads in this discussion and i came across this comment by moon about how feyre admit to wanting rhys under the mountain.for some reason i completely missed this and it makes me wonder how that version of rhys was so different from tamlin in the first place. rhys was abusive to her and for her to say that she wanted him back then without even knowing his "true" intentions feels like glorifying abuse. i completely forgot about her admitting that to him. that feels so careless.
Briana you raise a really good point. It really frustrates me (mainly on BookTok) where people are all saying how wonderful Rhys is. A lot of people seem to justify Rhy's behaviour as some grand protective gesture because he saved her, but you're right, they are glorifying abuse. Both Tamlin and Rhys fail here. Rhys abused and manipulated Feyre Under the Mountain. He drugged her, made her wander around in clothing she didnt choose and each time she woke up the next day with no memory of the night before. (Imagine that happened in real life!) Tamlin fails in this moment for not acting protectively as he does in pretty much every other circumstance- which makes me believe someone elses theory that Tamlin wasn't actually Under the Mountain next to Amarantha all that time and only came out at the end when Feyre had to stab him. And I hope that is true. The series has serious issues with unhealthy relationships and power and control.
Joanne wrote: "Rhys abused and manipulated Feyre Under the Mountain. He drugged her, made her wander around in clothing she didnt choose and each time she woke up the next day with no memory of the night before. (Imagine that happened in real life!)"Let us not forget that he twisted a BONE SHARD lodged into her shoulder to goad her into accepting the bargain.
I stared at him, sending as much hate as I could into my gaze. He’d been the one who’d caused all this. He’d told Amarantha about Clare; he’d made Tamlin beg.
“Well?”
I bared my teeth. “Go. To. Hell.”
Swift as lightning, he lashed out, grabbing the shard of bone in my arm and twisting. A scream shattered out of me, ravaging my aching throat. The world flashed black and white and red. I thrashed and writhed, but he kept his grip, twisting the bone a final time before releasing my arm.
Panting, half sobbing as the pain reverberated through my body, I found him smirking at me again. I spat in his face.
He only laughed as he stood, wiping his cheek with the dark sleeve of his tunic.
“This is the last time I’ll extend my assistance,” he said, pausing by the cell door. “Once I leave this cell, my offer is dead.” I spat again, and he shook his head. “I bet you’ll be spitting on Death’s face when she comes to claim you, too.”
- Sarah J. Maas, ACOTAR, Chapter 37.
Why is no one ever mentioning this? It's in the goddamned text and everyone focuses on the freaking drugging situation, but I'm here like, GUYS he legit TORTURED her into submission. Ofc, that is totally romantic, I too would want to have hot steamy sex with the guy who basically mentally and physically manipulated me while I was on my death bed. What a dreambolt!
Nicko- oh yep I’ll admit I forgot that bit! Everything he did under the mountain was totally wrong! So glad we’re all on the same page!
I also get annoyed that so many people see Tamlin locking Feyre in the house as truly horrible. Literally every time she ventures off on her own - as human or Fae, someone needs to save her. There’s only so many places Tamlin could be. I get it, it’s wrong, but also highly likely with all the bad things that were roaming about that she would have died!
Sam wrote: "I haven't reread the series and for some reason, the drugging stood out clearly, but that bone shard bit was CRUEL. "Exactly, that's why I try to make people aware of it. It's in the text, it's something that Rhysand officially did and yet everyone seems to find the drugging part infamous. What's worse? Unaware and paraded, but unharmed, or conscious and in agony while you slowly die of infection?
And people think Rhys is hot, he's a saint, he's doing what is best for Feyra. Yeah... When the author stops sweeping the atrocities of her main characters under the rug and has the guts to address them, then maybe I'll start respecting her as an author.
Lucien surely knew Tam was being a double-agent, why would he not mention that to Feyre or Rhys when they kept doubting Tamlin?Tbh I think SJM has a habit of having her characters do things that don't make sense in order to keep certain things unknown to the reader. Lucien WOULD know. And as you mention, Feyre would also know Tamlin is not about slaughtering humans. Rhys knows this too. But having these characters figure this out early means the reader won't be surprised when Tamlin joins the fight in the end.
It's annoying, really. There's just no way Feyre and Rhys wouldn't have at least doubted Tamlin being allied with Hybern. I still think it would have been 100x better if it had gone like this:
At the end of ACOMAF, when Feyre, Lucien and Tamlin are back in Spring, Tamlin says to her "I know you're lying. The bond is still there." And of course Feyre would deny it, and Tamlin would call her out again--and Lucien too. Then, realizing they won't be fooled, Feyre begrudgingly admits it. She expects Tamlin to rat her out, to turn her over to Hybern, but he (a bit angry, and even hurt) lets her stay at the manor and says they'll figure it out in the morning.
Theeen the next day Feyre and Tamlin have a proper closure. It'd be tense and uncomfortable of course, but honesty at last. And Tamlin tells her his plan with Hybern, about spying, and bc she can't very well leave, they decide to work together. She can still escape when she does, but this way Tamlin isn't dragged through the mud and there's proper closure. Voila!
WinterRose wrote: "She can still escape when she does, but this way Tamlin isn't dragged through the mud and there's proper closure. Voila! "Oh, but that would mean Tamlin would be an honest-to-God decent character and we can't have that in a narrative where Feyra is the POV.
I think Maas was probably feeding off the hate the fans had for Tamlin and fueled Feyra's petty monologues and revenge plan with it, without even considering that a lot of the things she is putting on the page don't make any logical sense i.e. no suspection of Tamlin being on their side, no Lucian knowing that Tamlin was a double-agent, an utter disconnection from Prythian politics etc.
But by now if anyone is ever going to salvage this story it's... probably another author who takes... inspiration from these plotpoints and molds them into a "what could have been" scenario. I'd do that myself if I had any real talent or practice in writing, but I do not.
It's always going to be a battle with SJM. I've always thought she has good ideas and overall good characters, but can't tell the actual story without bias leaking through the narrative. I remember the first time I read Throne of Glass and being annoyed with how often we're told how Celaena is the greatest assassin of all time. I don't think I've ever read a story where an author was so obsessed with a character as SJM was with Celaena. It honestly turned me off Celaena as a character. Like every other character at least once had to mention how amazing she is.
Is anyone looking forward to A Court of Silver Flames? I can't decide if I'll read it. I mean I probably will, but I'll admit I'm more interested in Azriel/Elain/Lucien/Vassa story we'll probably get in the next one. I feel like Nesta is SJM's Celaena so I'm just not looking forward to hearing about how "queenly" and amazing and strong and powerful she is. Bah.
WinterRose wrote: "It's always going to be a battle with SJM. I've always thought she has good ideas and overall good characters, but can't tell the actual story without bias leaking through the narrative...."Yes! That was my biggest issue with Throne of Glass. ACOTAR threw me off originally because Feyre was so unlike the MC from ToG that made me never want to read that series ever again.
Also I love the idea of the different courts and I wish that this was more like A Song of Ice and Fire with insight on the different courts without all the bias. I know GRRM favored Tyrion Lannister and Arya Stark but you couldn't really tell. I get that Feyre is the main character here but good grief. I was literally thinking today about the celestial courts in particular and I just hate how Feyre and Rhys pretty much marked their territory all over these courts to the point where I just don't care about anyone anymore because I know they'll all suck up to them because they're the best. /end rant
Is anyone looking forward to A Court of Silver Flames? I can't decide if I'll read it. I mean I probably will, but I'll admit I'm more interested in Azriel/Elain/Lucien/Vassa story we'll probably get in the next one. I feel like Nesta is SJM's Celaena so I'm just not looking forward to hearing about how "queenly" and amazing and strong and powerful she is. Bah.
I was looking forward to it because Nesta is written as a bitch and is self-aware unlike how Feyre thinks she's god's gift to everyone but I found myself annoyed with some descriptions about her. Like she's supposed to be in the throws of alcoholism and depression but SJM made sure to let us know that she is still beautiful, fierce, and regal. Who cares??!?! I wish writers weren't so afraid of ugly traits for their MCs. I'm also not into this idea that "she's ugly and broken down but Cassian loves her anyway." Again, I don't care because we all know how that story will end up. They're going to fight, be stubborn, and eventually have boring heteronormative sex and end up as mates.
I was also interested in Azriel, Lucien, Vassa, and Elain but I'm just exhausted by this sister group. Azriel likes Elain but Lucien is her mate. I'm already bored with this idea that she'll have to choose between them or it'll be something polyamorous just so SJM can say she did it but it'll still manage to be heteronormative because Azriel and Lucien will only mess around if Elain is there or involved.
LOL I'm clearly in a good mood today....
I wish writers weren't so afraid of ugly traits for their MCs.YES. With SJM in particular I've noticed she just makes her favorites completely unapologetic--they're always right, even when they're wrong. When they do something they SHOULD make amends for (Nesta's abuse of Feyre over the years, Feyre burning down the Spring Court, etc.) it's never addressed in a "yeah, that's my bad" kind of way but more like "nope, I had my reasons and I'm right and won't be sorry about it."
I'm not into the idea of Cassian and Nesta together at all, but I'm one of the few that feel that way, haha. (I don't like how she treats people in general. Until that changes, I won't like her with anyone.)
I don't think Elain will feel very torn, tbh. She's already got something brewing with Azriel and Lucien seems to be into Vassa. I think he's the one that will feel torn--not because he genuinely feels anything deep for Elain, but because she IS his mate and he feels some obligation there. But ultimately both Elain and Lucien will reject the bond and end up as friends only. At least that's my prediction.
WinterRose wrote: "Is anyone looking forward to A Court of Silver Flames? I can't decide if I'll read it."At this point in time I expect it be the same old drivel we've been fed in ToG and ACOTAR arc 1, but with a different skin. That said I will probably write a discussion thread about it as soon as I get the chance to read and then finish it - I'm guessing I'll probably touch on the author's lack of originality, because from the synopsis alone I can tell that it's gonna be quite formulaic.
Also the cover design for A Court of Silver Flames is so ugly. Looks like communist era covers, especially with the color combo.
I just found this thread and spent an hour reading every single message and it was the best decision I have made. I'm a very shy person so I debated to myself if I should post a comment and my opinions but then I though -- eh fuck it, I'm gonna do it.The main reason why I even picked up this book is because of Tamlin. Not sure if anyone knows this but his name came from the (I believe) Scottish tale called the Ballad of Tam Lin and it was my favourite myth I've ever read right beside Hades and Persephone.
I also heard that he was an abusive prick so that made me more interested to read about him. People said that there were signs that he was abusive in the first book so I looked for them.
During my first read of ACOTAR, my first opinion on Tamlin was that he was generally a simple dude who never wanted much. His entire monologue about never wanting to be a High Lord and was content with serving his dad and brothers spoke to me. I never aim to be a great leader, I'm just content with being a hardworking follower.
But on that note, I also thought that he was suffering from depression or some other type of mental disorder.
In the book there were MULTIPLE lines that gave me MAJOR RED FLAGS that he is not mentally ok and that he needs help and that maybe someone should talk to him.
Nobody talked to him.
I even made a list of all the lines. The lines were short and just small phrases that were then ignored and never talked about again but these lines just stuck to me till the very end.
And then ACOMAF and ACOWAR happened and I just became sad that Tam acted the way he did. But when he told Feyre to be happy and she wrote that note hoping he'll find happiness, I cried.
But then ACOFAS came and destroyed me. When Rhysand came to Tam and verbally beat the shit out of him, I was crying and begging for it to stop. I was like 'No! Stop! Rhysand stop! He's already lost everything! You won! Just stooop!!' And then when Rhy left and he commented that Tam didn't have any protection spells on his manor where someone could literally winnow in and slice his throat 'as though he wanted it to happen'. I died.
I felt so sad and so sorry for Tam. He already lost everything. Isn't that enough? Rhys had everything. He won. There was no need for him to attack Tam like that.
But I'm glad I found this post ^-^
Hi Sarah! I am glad that you posted!!It seems that when it comes down to the important stuff, everyone in this damn book series, suddenly can't talk. Apparently, no one knows how to have a conversation, call out anyone, or ask a question.
Sarah wrote: "I just found this thread and spent an hour reading every single message and it was the best decision I have made. I'm a very shy person so I debated to myself if I should post a comment..."Hi Sarah! I'm glad you decided to respond. I think for the most part we are all in agreement about Tamlin. I don't dislike that he is a "villain" because if a guy in real life acted like how he did then I would run for the hills but it's the way SJM let's it play out. I don't think that any Tamlin "fan" or someone who just looks at these characters objectively thinks that he is without blame. SJM plays favorites and cannot seem to write fleshed out characters. Rhysand in ACOTAR was interesting because he was clearly not a great guy but he was helping Feyre which made the reader wonder why. A lot of Rhysand's actions in general are glossed over completely while there is a hyper focus on Tamlin's wrongdoings. I also wish that Feyre gave Rhysand more shit beyond her loyalty she hade for Tamlin. As soon as Rhys "explained" why he "had" to act the way he did, I still feel like she could have been more upset about it. I could go on and on but you get the idea lmao.
As someone mentioned earlier in the thread we won't ever really get to see a nuanced look at Tamlin until she writes something from his POV because Feyre is pretty much unreliable in all aspects since ACOTAR was Feyre in love with Tamlin and the rest of the series is Feyre hating Tamlin and in love with Rhys. Also Rhysand's POV towards Tamlin was skewed by hate but again, why does Rhysand get a pass when Tamlin doesn't. Their feud was bad on both sides tbh.
Nadia wrote: "It seems that when it comes down to the important stuff, everyone in this damn book series, suddenly can't talk. Apparently, no one knows how to have a conversation, call out anyone, or ask a question."
That's my biggest pet peeves in story telling across all mediums. I hate when characters suddenly can't communicate purely for plot development because no one is like this in real life. I get that there are nonconfrontational people in this world who run away from unpleasant conversations but most of these characters aren't those type of people.
Nadia wrote: "It seems that when it comes down to the important stuff, everyone in this damn book series, suddenly can't talk. Apparently, no one knows how to have a conver..."I know!! When I started the first-- THE FIRST -- chapter of the second book, I was like "Oh god, they really going down the miscommunication route aren't they?" And one thing about me is that I really HATE miscommunication. The entire series would have ended in book one if the characters just man up and said what's on their mind.
I totally agree about miscommunication because it’s hard to pull it off without coming across like blatant plot convenience. It has to be understandable miscommunication and that didn’t happen here. No way in hell was Feyres note remotely believable for example.1) To Tamlins knowledge Feyre couldn’t read or write. 2) Even if she could, who’s to say she wasn’t forced to write it. It was short as shit. And you are sending this to a man you literally died for and were about to marry.
Everything about that relationship falling apart was done so poorly. Like it IS possible to write them slowly falling apart while also developing with a Rhysand without warping Tamlins character.
WinterRose wrote: "2) Even if she could, who’s to say she wasn’t forced to write it. It was short as shit. And you are sending this to a man you literally died for and were about to marry."And I really hate this too because in the first book she said this line. To give context, she was about to go back to the Spring Court to help and save his ass from Amarantha.
"Tamlin might be furious—he might command me to turn
around and go home. But I would tell him that I was going to
help, tell him that I loved him and would fight for him
however I could, even if I had to tie him down to make him
listen."
I mean??? She literally had no qualms about tying him down and forcing him to listen to her yet in the second book she just sent him a short note????
And when in the third book at the end, she sent that other note saying that she thanks him and that she wishes him to find happiness. Yes, Feyre. Because the last time you wrote him a letter it ended so well.
And when Rhys beat the hell outta him verbally in ACOFAS, Feyre was like, "Oh its fine! You were entitled to a slip-up". First of all, that wasn't a 'slip up', Rhys legit confessed that one of the reasons he wanted to visit Tam was to both talk about the border AND say those hurtful and UNNECESSARY words to him. It wasn't an 'accident', he was purposely being a jerk.
Too easy. It was far too easy to bait him, rile him. And though I reminded myself of the wall, of the peace we needed, I said, “You saved my mate’s life on several occasions. I will always be thankful for that.” I knew the words found their mark. My mate. Low. It was a low blow. I had everything—everything I’d wished for, dreamed of, begged the stars to grant me.
I don't know about you but it seemed that Rhys purposely said words that HE KNOWS would anger Tamlin.
Sarah wrote: : "I don't know about you but it seemed that Rhys purposely said words that HE KNOWS would anger Tamlin.He did. Rhysand is such an idiot. He knows that Pythian (however tf you spell it) is in shambles and that he will need the help of other High lords to rebuild if he doesn't want another invasion of any sort. And what does he do??
1.He goes to the Spring Court and openly insults another High Lord
2. he has sky sex and climaxes to the image of his own child (Like wtf???EW)
3. doesn't do anything about the illyrians ( still. despite the fact that he has been High Lord for at least the past three hundred years)
4. let fayrug (who is not qualified to be High Lady) to do irrevelent paperwork??
5. Not let the citizens of Hewn City into his exclusive private gated community even though he promised and they WENT TO WAR FOR HIM. therefore limiting the economy for Velaris's rebuld
Like damn. I am kinda upset at myself for ever stanning this book series. There was a point in time in which I said I would want someone like Rhysand. Now I wish I could slap myself.
Hi Guys, So I'm coming from insta after seeing a bunch of teaser pics regarding A Court of Silver Flames.
My thoughts regarding this new addition to the series got me thinking about Tamlin and that led me this wonderful thread that's been alive for the past 2 years.
I've read almost all of the replies and identify quite strongly with most of them.
For me, Tamlin and Lucien have been my favorite characters throughout this series and to see them both being discarded, made out to be the bad guys and having questionable personality flips just devastated me.
I have this joke where I say that the mating bond between Tamlin and myself snapped into place the same time Feyre realized that Rhysand was her mate. I don't think I've ever felt that strongly for a character before. A character who is supposed to be our "villain" - I would say, "SJM who tf are you kidding?" but with the amount of hate Tamlin receives I'd say her plan to destroy him worked out quite well. Most readers have their Feyre tinted glasses on. Anything she says is of course true and all any other reasoning is outrageous. And my favorite comment of all time when you try to say anything about Tamlin is - "Romanticizing Abuse"
I feel like most have forgotten about Tamlin in book 1 (I've seen a lot of people choosing to skip book 1 entirely when rereading). I found him to be such a dork, someone who was not as smooth with the ladies as you would have expected "Your hair is... clean" He was not the charming Rhysand that SJM deemed as walking perfection. And I kinda loved that about him. He was not perfect. There was so much potential with him, a chance to build him up into a great character.
There were moments in book 1 that was so touching. I don't think any of us will forget the dying faerie, the prayer for him to pass into the other realm, Lucien not being able to stand the sight of such horrors. Both Tam and Lucien were not strangers to violence, yet they were not harden by this, they still cared.
Then there were soft moments of romance and sweetness, the fiddle playing (Oh how I long to see him play again), the dancing, the wine, the will-o-wisps, watching the sun come up, picnics at the glen... "I love you... thorns and all"
There were lots of other moments as well, Tam revealing he never wanted to be a high lord, he was musically inclined and wanted to pursue that - I know Tam is a beast but at times he came across as soft. Tam and Luci bantering - I miss this pairing, Tam, despite not wanting to be a high lord, he still wanted better for his people.
Though despite all of this there was one common issue I found throughout the series with Tamlin. And that is miscommunication. This led to most of his troubles. And this came from both sides. For one, I felt like he internalizes everything. Finds out the pros and cons to every situation, debates it in his head and just tells you the final result without explanation as to how he got there. Then there was the issues of those around him, Feyre would never push him, would never try to get to know him and the things that haunt him or makes him happy, etc and vice versa. It was one of main reasons I could never ship Feylin. Their relationship lacked substance. I always found myself wanting more from them. Then there was Lucien, whom I felt knew what to say but wouldn't because Tam was the "High Lord" - Lucien, you're his best friend, if you don't reason with him, nobody, especially not Feyre, is going to.
When Rhysand entered the book, I have to admit I liked him, he was dark and dangerous and the Night Court seemed like such a sexy and nefarious place. That was attractive. But the more you got to see of him the more he became one giant eye roll. Perfect, the most handsome, the feminist leader, full of himself, has a bigger dick (yeah sjm even stooped to that level to make the reader like Rhys even more - honestly disgusting). And all this time Feyre spent with him, developing a "love", I kept going "Ok cool, we need a third love interest but whats happening with Tam"
And then we do see Tam next to Ama, shutting his mouth, literally being an accessory next to her. People thought he was awful for not doing anything though they forget he knew Amarantha from childhood, knew the evilness that resided in her, witnessed what they did to the girl they thought was Feyre. I think him doing nothing prolonged Feyre's life, more than she could imagine.
Onto some of the "awful" things he did in this book (I know I'm rambling a lot, please bare with me, I have a lot of feels regarding him *facepalms*)
- Locking her in the house. To be honest, I didn't think this was such a big deal (don't get me wrong, I don't think it was a good decision, I just didn't realize how big of an issue this was that people would use it to say he is an evil and terrible person), I felt like this was on of those decisions Tam made in his head - he knew the high lords would be after her and then there's the threat of Rhysand trying to take her away. Feyre, despite being Fae, she was still as defenseless and useless as a mortal. He was trying to effectively keep her safe from all of this, in the way he thought was best. The drama that this all caused could have been avoided if they actually spoke about their feelings and concerns and worked like an actual couple. Miscommunication with them was a huge thing.
- Losing his cool, exploding and hurting Feyre (who deserved it, that manipulative little bitch - sorry but I hate our supposed "Yaas, Queen Feyre") - if all the events leading up to this hasn't convinced you that the boy needs help then this certainly takes the cake. I don't really know much about depression or mental health issues but from what we've seen so far, he does have a lot of issues stemming from his family, his past, his inability to open up and also the magical side of him, not truly accepting his role, not knowing how to manage himself. And this is a giant red flag for someone dating him. In terms of Feylin, it was detriment to himself and Feyre. And this outburst, even though this was what Feyre wanted, it doesn't take away from the fact that this was abusive. He never intended to hurt her, he apologized profusely afterwards. Though despite not intending to he still physically harmed the person he loved. He needs help!
- Siding with Hybern - well we all knew he was a mole in Hybern, Lucien almost told Feyre this. And the thing that irks me most about that convo is that everything could have come out in the open if Feyre could have just pushed Lucien to tell her what he meant. And just earlier Rhysand was going on about how nice it would be if we had someone on the inside of Hybern *rolls eyes* But our dearest Feyre, who was so concerned about destroying the court that fed her, clothed her, a place where she'd gained a friend and lover. This is just one of the things I could never forgive sjm for. Once the inner circle and Rhysand was introduced, everything regarding Spring, Tam and Lucien was suddenly disgusting, vile and despicable. Feyre cared for none of it, she went so far as to think Spring's food was horrible and tasteless - Nothing was ever as nice as Night, Night court and all its members are yet again "Perfect". She destroyed Spring with so much of hate and so many people think it was justifiable - Because he locked her in a house whilst thinking he was protecting her ... I mean do they even hear themselves - I would understand her wanting to hurt Tam, its her ex, she hates him, but an entire court... no, that was not justifiable. I'm also upset with Alis, I know she was thinking of her boys but Tam still took you in after Summer and gave you a job and looked after your family ...lovely payback...
- Another evil deed that I am dying to hear more about is regarding Tamlin's family and how they killed Rhysand's mother and sister. In my head and of what we know about Tamlin so far, this story doesnt make sense to me. We know that Tam and Rhys used to be friends, he even has a set of Illyarian knives from Rhys. We know that Tam hated his father as well as his brothers. And I feel, though I cant say for certain, that Rhys and Tam had struck up a true friendship which is why their hatred is so strong. Though what I fail to understand is why would Tamlin give information regarding Rhysand's family to his father. Unless he was forced to. Tamlin doesn't strike me as one that would rat out his friends, especially not for his fathers benefit. So I think there's more to that story. Though we would probably never hear more of it and will have to just consider Rhysand's story to be true - Our perfect Rhys can never be wrong
The thing that hurts the most to talk about is acofas. Tamlin is greatly flawed, we all know this. He needs to grow emotionally, he needs to learn how to cope with his ptsd. But despite his issues, despite Feyre destroying him and his court, he still helped them, helped her escape, helped with the war, helped Rhys and he even let her go "Be happy Feyre" ...and I was genuinely happy for everyone. I was happy that Tam was finally able to let go so he could now move on. But then acofas came along....
Boy did that book boil my blood (books 2 and 3 did this as well) - I thought we were going to see Tam moving on and rebuilding and I even hoped that there would be a love interest for him. I wasn't hoping for much but just a mention of them being happy. I needed him to be happy after losing so much. But no, Spring was empty, the wards were gone, the house was a mess, Tam wasn't just a mess, he was a suicidal mess. Oh my heart at seeing him so beaten down. And then Rhysand.... Rhysand, that asshole, ...he knew he had everything, he knew he'd won, but it still wasn't enough. You have to be the lowest sort of scum to tell someone who is on the brink of taking their own life, to die. By the Cauldron did I want to stab that guy!
I hope we get a healing arc. I would really love for that friendship between Lucien and him to be mended, Lucien is truly the only person he still has by his side. And I really hope Tamlin finds a love interest if not a mate. A lot of people think he needs a docile person akin to Elain, someone who will obey him but I think that just plays into the issues he currently has. I want someone with a bit more fire in their soul for him. Someone who's going to rattle him but also take him out of his head. Someone he can connect with emotionally. Someone he feels safe to open up to. But alas its SJM, one cannot hope for much when it comes to her and open biasness in writing.
I did see some lovely pairing suggestions. As much as I hate the Night Court (it's a beautiful court but the way sjm keeps portraying the court and the inner circle as superior, its hard not to dislike them), I really like the idea of Emerie and Tam - it seems like it could be an interesting pairing - if you know of any fanfics lol I'd be happy to read.
I've rambled a lot here but in short I feel like Tam isnt the villain everyone wishes him to be. If they would only take a closer look they would be able to see it too. I think there are some lovely and admirable qualities about him but at the same time I also think he is greatly flawed and in need of development which our author would never give him since he's not her fav.
Feyre is not the Queen the fandom thinks she is, she's manipulative, does not know what loyalty and friendship truly are, egotistically, the list goes on and on. I particularly like the sociopath comments.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Tam gets a lovely healing arc, and Lucien gets better than being pawned off to the next available character, Vassa, since he's not part of the inner circle and therefore doesnt get the happily ever after with his mate.
I know I said a lot on the previous comment but also just wanted to comment on the book that led me here - A Court of Silver Flames. I know many don't like Nesta, I know I sure did at the beginning when I actually like Feyre and thought Nesta was a bitch and a half.
But as the series progressed my dislike for Feyre grew and I began to like Nesta. She's still a bitch but something about her hating Feyre and myself doing the same, I felt like I could form an attachment on her based on our mutual hate *facepalm*.
Anyways I'm rather fond of Nessian though I have to admit I was a little disappointed that the book we're getting is Nessian since I wanted a Tamlin healing arc which I doubt will be included in this (honestly wont be surprised if we find out sjm killed Tam so she wouldnt have to deal with developing his character). But anyways after I got over that, I began looking forward to this book.
Until I saw the snippets......
"Never again would she be weak. Never again would she be at someone's mercy" - This gives me Aelin feels. And that makes me sick. I've noticed all of sjm female characters are the same - very powerful assholes who think they're better than everyone else. We've seen it with Cel/Aelin, Feyre, Bryce... I guess Nesta is joining the pack too. Which is highly disappointing.
I really dont want to read about how awesome and powerful Nesta is, How she is suddenly Feyre's bestie and part of the inner circle again - A circle she didnt want to be apart of!!!
And by these snippets, she's definitely going to be apart of it. Most of them have Azriel in it. It seems like he has suddenly grown a personality and learned how to speak.
I have unreasonable dislike for Azriel. He's a nice guy, has never done anything wrong. But he makes my blood boil as well. One of things that gave me hope in this series was when Lucien figured out that Elain was his mate. At this point we knew Tamlin was out of the story. As much as it hurt me, there was nothing to do there. But my second boy Lucien, I had so much of hope for him to still have a good story because of the bond.
But... Nope!
Feyre, who was still pretending to be Lucien's friend, was telling Rhysand about how nice of a pairing Az and Elain would make. Gosh sjm and her writing of character never fails to piss me off. How do you do that to your supposed friend who is mated to your sister. She even violated his privacy and looked into his mind (yet she couldnt use such wonderful powers when it actually mattered, like finding out what Lucien knew about the Hybern deal).
The biasness again at discarding Lucien, who you could have written a beautiful mating story about yet she chose to favor the inner circle YET AGAIN.
And it is flipping annoying. I dont care how much of chemistry Az and Elain has, you didnt have to do that to Lucien. Its like he never has anything going for him. I dont even want to start on how Feysand figured out that Lucien is Helions son - they're the only smart people in the room that can put two and two together. As if Lucien's powers havent told him this already - though I'll be damned in feysand decides to break that news to him. As important as they think they are, its really not their place!
Then there's Vassa - her character description was interesting - her actual character though - disappointing. And its so visible how SJM is just pushing Lucien onto her. Like I cant give you your mate because we hate book 1 characters but here's a consolation prize. I do feel happy though that Lucien decided not to stay at the Night Court (my heart really could take that) and found a band of exiles for himself. Though Im not the biggest fan of Vassa nor Jurian, I'm happy that he feels like he has a place. But at the same time theres still a feeling of sadness because I want him to come home, to Spring.
Anyways back to the book of silver flames, definitely feels like its a setup for the azriel book since I've never seen that much involvement from that dude previously.
I really hope they could give us just a paragraph or even a line of whats happening at Spring. I definitely going to be reading just for that piece of information since I've lost hope in everything else.
Also hoping for multipov's. I think its time we finally heard whats going on in Tam's head *crosses fingers* though he didnt have one in acofas, we might just get inner circle povs only. Sigh, how insufferable
Me again, last post I swear. So I was just thinking of the Emerie and Tamlin pairing.
She's a head strong illyarian though her wings have been clipped (they're so cruel). She must long for flight like so many other woman like her.
If she and Tam had to get together. He has the shapeshifting ability (not entirely sure how it works but he could project it onto others). He could help her fly again 😍 that would be so lovely.
I feel like im caught up in this pairing already. Seems highly unlikely but I want to hold thumbs for them.
Nadia wrote: "Sarah wrote: : "I don't know about you but it seemed that Rhys purposely said words that HE KNOWS would anger Tamlin.He did. Rhysand is such an idiot. He knows that Pythian (however tf you spell ..."
Nadia, I honestly feel like so many of those issues are simply because SJM didn't want to write a proper medieval fantasy. She'd rather her little group just hang out than do their jobs. (Compared to TOG this cast felt so clique-y because of it)
They don't do things that you should see in medieval fantasy. Especially as a king, a commander of the army, the spymaster, etc. No, instead they have time for things like...snowball fights. (Literally wtf) And going out to dinner at restaurants. And decorating the living room for a holiday. Like Cassian would never have free time. He'd be at the army bases constantly. Azriel would probably be gone a lot too and Mor should be in the Hewn City more.
To me it's clear SJM was having issues with the Crescent City world bleeding over--which CC is more urban fantasy. Like I'm sorry you don't wear sweaters, leggings and boots in MEDEIVAL FANTASY. All she needed to add was an iphone and a Starbucks cup and the picture is painted.
@ AsharaWelcome! I'm glad you found us. :) It's so hard to find people who feel this way about Tamlin/the books because so many are on the Tamlin hate train.
It's funny you mention ACOTAR--that's where I found both Tamlin and Rhysand to be the most likeable. Tamlin was broody and guarded, but had a heart of gold. (And I loved his relationship with Lucien, like SJM Rhysand was mysterious, morally gray, and a bit antagonistic. A shame SJM deviated so much from the first book.
Also, I completely agree with so many of your points. I REALLY miss the relationship between Lucien and Tamlin and hope they reconcile.
What really bothered me about the whole "locking Feyre up" thing is Rhysand's comment about it. "He locked you up because he knew—the bastard knew what a treasure you are. That you are worth more than land or gold or jewels. He knew, and wanted to keep you all to himself."
BULLLLLSHIT. Tamlin shouldn't have done it, but we all know he placed the ward around the house because he wanted to protect Feyre from his enemies. Not to horde her like he's a damn dragon hording treasure. This pattern of SJM trying to twist the narrative is so annoying to me.
It's funny you mention Emerie and Tamlin because that's exactly what I wanted, too. Tamlin has very strong feelings toward the NC and Illyrians especially, so it would be super interesting if he ended up falling for one of those "brutes" as he called them. It would also help heal the relationship between Tamlin and Rhysand, which IMO needs to be healed more than Feyre and Tamlin even. There's bloody history there that needs healed in order for their courts to become allies--which we all know they need in the long run.
Regarding the whole Lucien/Az/Elain/Vassa debacle...I'm honestly so much more excited for this than Silver Flames. I too think SJM is just going to do another Aelin 2.0 and even though I don't like Nesta yet, I'd rather see a more Daenerys story for her. (Minus that awful S8 bullshit that I elect to ignore) Someone who can be powerful and strong in how they make decisions and rule, not necessarily someone who is physically strong. I had actually thought Nesta would make a better villain - I mean, rooting for your family to starve out of spite isn't exactly the stuff of hero's lol. But alas, SJM isn't that brave.
Back to the love square. My theory has always been that SJM wanted to write a mate pairing that rejected the bond, so she chose two people that don't really make sense to be bonded - hence it won't be that upsetting when they break the bond. Vassa was introduced but not fleshed out because we'll likely get her in another spinoff where she plays a larger role. (And yes, I do think she'll be Lucien's love interest. He showed more interest in her in a few paragraphs than he did with Elain throughout the whole book. True, genuine interest that is. Without the mate bond, Lucien wouldn't be drawn to Elain--I imagine him drawn closer to someone with more fire.)
Which of course leaves Azriel and Elain. I think SJM has built that one up throughout the books, so it won't be a surprise if their book is the next one after Silver Flames. I do think SJM will give Tamlin his healing arc, possibly link it with Lucien's story since part of Tamlin's healing will involve Lucien. It's all such a tangle with this group, that's why I'm excited for it. :)
LOL I feel like I'm one of the few who don't want an Elain/Azriel situation. The three hottest Ilyrian's for the three Acheron sisters who are all different versions of one person annoys me to no end. I also feel like Azriel in one of the characters that is queer coded. SJM can make him crush on as many "females" as she wants but none of them feel real. I did once entertain the idea of Elain and Azriel but that was before I noticed Nesta and Cassian which I imagine will have a ton of cringe vanilla hate sex. Plus the inner circle pairing off with Acherons just added to it for me. Unrelated I'm sorry lol
Briana wrote: "LOL I feel like I'm one of the few who don't want an Elain/Azriel situation. The three hottest Ilyrian's for the three Acheron sisters who are all different versions of one person annoys me to no e..."Haha I agree it IS really too perfect - personally I don't think Cassian and Nesta fit. If I had it my way, I would only have Elain and Feyre end up with two of the bat boys. Nesta would have had the surprise mate bond (not Elain) to Eris. I know how narrow minded the IC is so I'm sure there's more to Eris than what we're meant to believe, and he and Nesta would have made a really interesting pairing. Plus it'd get Nesta out of there, as it doesn't seem like she even wants to be in the NC. (Though I'm sure she'll wind up exclusively with the Illyrians, giving her that distance.)
It's going to be hard for SJM to pull it off without it coming off too cookie cutter perfect. Though now that I think about it, I do know some people in real life where siblings married a pair of best friends. I guess its no different than meeting someone through a friend - in this case instead of friends, its sisters. It's just not as common in fiction so it feels weird, lol.
Ashara wrote: "Then there were soft moments of romance and sweetness, the fiddle playing (Oh how I long to see him play again), the dancing, the wine, the will-o-wisps, watching the sun come up, picnics at the glen... "I love you... thorns and all"Stop. You're making me cry T~T
I loved those soft romantic moments. They were just so cute and I'm a slut for fluffy moments.
Sometimes I also wonder if people even read the first book.
I also would love Tamlin having a love interest that somewhat follows the original myth. (https://youtu.be/UF3O6Xkpscs) A link for a vid about the myth of Tam Lin. In my opinion, Tamlin needs someone who is a mix of Elain and Nesta. A person who is independent and brave and stubborn like Nesta who can handle him but also soft and caring like Elain because let's face it, our boy needs some soft hugs after all the bullshit he went through.
Ashara wrote: "Anyways I'm rather fond of Nessian though I have to admit I was a little disappointed that the book we're getting is Nessian since I wanted a Tamlin healing arc which I doubt will be included in this (honestly wont be surprised if we find out sjm killed Tam so she wouldnt have to deal with developing his character)."Noooo. Don't say that!! I had a nightmare where Tamlin actually took his own life. I cried so much waking up. Don't jinx it. T~T
Ashara wrote: "I really hope they could give us just a paragraph or even a line of whats happening at Spring. I definitely going to be reading just for that piece of information since I've lost hope in everything else.
Also hoping for multipov's. I think its time we finally heard whats going on in Tam's head *crosses fingers* though he didnt have one in acofas, we might just get inner circle povs only. Sigh, how insufferable"
I'd really like that too. It's about time we get HIS SIDE of the story.
Tamlin needs someone who is a mix of Elain and Nesta.Lysandra? Yrene? lol This got me thinking of a crossover of ships, who would be with who. Hm, let me think. I'll go with...
Feyre and Aedion
Rhysand and Manon
Nesta and Dorian
Elain and Chaol or Lorcan
Azriel and Elide
Cassian and Asterin
Tamlin and Lysandra or Yrene
Lucien and Ansel
Mor and Rowan or Lysandra
Ya'll, a new teaser just came out with Nesta dancing with none other than ERIS. I'm cackling like my trash ship may not be endgame but I'll get fed a bit, lmao.
WinterRose wrote: "Ya'll, a new teaser just came out with Nesta dancing with none other than ERIS. I'm cackling like my trash ship may not be endgame but I'll get fed a bit, lmao."Who was Eris again? One of Lucian's sadistic brothers?
Sorry to pop in on the conversation but I've been reading through this thread for a while now after I finished ACOFAS and was entirely disgusted with the treatment of Tamlin. I am one of the few who doesn't hate Tamlin which I know, is rare for whatever reason when Feyre and Rhys's hypocrisy is outstanding, but that's another rant for another time.I just wanted to say, after reading the latest teaser and seeing Eris in it, I am going to be absolutely livid if Eris gets redemption and Tamlin never does. Eris is literally a monster and did horrible things but no, since Tamlin was made a scapegoat villain he's the one who gets the hate. I honestly don't know what sjm is planning or thinking but I am so very very tired of seeing Tamlin get hate while people warm up to Eris. I love a good redemption but Eris has physically abused people and poor Nesta doesn't need someone like that. I'm just really confused with all this unnecessary hate towards Tamlin and the hypocrisy behind it.
Julianna wrote: "I love a good redemption but Eris has physically abused people and poor Nesta doesn't need someone like that."I still stand by my idea that SJM COULD make Nesta a villain which would be infinitely more badass. Probably this is her way of doing so. I mean, it's more plausible than giving ERIS - of all people - a redemption arc. Pff.... please!
I don't mind Eris getting a redemption arc. But I SWEAR.IF THAT MOTHERFUCKER GETS A REDEMPTION ARC AND TAMLIN GETS LEFT IN THE MUD I WILL SMITE A BITCH.
I still stand by my idea that SJM COULD make Nesta a villain which would be infinitely more badass.It really would. She won't do it, but I'd have so much respect if she did.
Also, I do think Tamlin will get a redemption arc. Eris won't, imo. In the sense that we'll get his side of the story (which we've already seen there's more to it than what the IC believes) but not a full blown redemption arc. Tamlin, being a main character, will get that, imo.
Personally I'm quite intrigued by Eris. I think it's obvious he's wearing a mask to keep what's important to him secret, much like Rhys did for all those years. I already have a theory on why he left Mor in the woods and it isn't just because he's an asshat.
edit: And apparently SJM said this tonight on her live feed, which is interesting:
"He is her favorite Autumn court character. She says she “loves bad characters who act bad but have a secret history and secret motivations.”
Also, she confirmed Nesta gets her HEA but suffers first. Is it just me or are they marketing this really...obviously? Like confirming Cassian and Nesta in the summary, up front saying it's a HEA, etc. Not that I expected otherwise, but usually authors don't just give these things away before the book is out?
WinterRose wrote: "Also, I do think Tamlin will get a redemption arc. Eris won't, imo. In the sense that we'll get his side of the story (which we've already seen there's more to it than what the IC believes) but not a full blown redemption arc. Tamlin, being a main character, will get that, imo."I agree, I really think Eris won't get like a Zuko long redemption arc but more likely him telling his side of the story.
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I agree with pretty much everything you said, especially this.
I finished ACOWAR and ACOFAS finally and I conclude that Elain shouldn't have a mate right now because she has way too much to work out. Nesta and Eris would have been far more interesting than SJM trying to pair off all the Acheron sisters with either Ilyrians or someone so Feyre-adjacent like Lucien.
I haven't even seen Lucien and Vassa together but I'm all for a poly ship between Lucien, Vassa, and Jurian with them just healing together and coming to terms with things.
I think Azriel and Amren are more queer-coded unintentionally than Mor is with the bi rep which brings me to another pet peeve about the romantic aspects of this book. At this point it's no longer a response to anyone in particular but it's just a rant:
EVERYTHING IS BORING AND HETERONORMATIVE. With the amount of sex and romance in these books I just don't think that vanilla cishet sex is all that interesting. All of the High Lords Feyre meets only enjoying the company of cishet women was just... boring. They're centuries years old and are essentially gods in a way but they believe in the concept of a mate. Has anyone had a mate with someone of the same sex? Is it only one mate for their whole existence? Does having a mate mean you don't hook up with others?
I liked that Rhysand was worried about Feyre being so young and being mated with him but after that, SJM just dropped it. I was kind of annoyed about how territorial all the High Fae are. I think Feyre and Rhysand would be more interesting if their relationship just had more zest because right now it's looking like no other partners and bed mates for centuries. It's just really boring to me
Long story short, I'm annoyed at the lack of polyamorous relationships and/or LGBT relationships in this series, especially since these characters are immortal. It's also annoying how much SJM tries to control these characters and ships. Their attachment to the main ship of Feyre/Rhys annoys me as well. Let these other characters breathe without being chained to this Feyre/Rhys jerkfest. It almost feels like everyone is made to compare their relationships to them or just watch them be happy and horny all the time.
And to keep this about Tamlin, I hope that he finds something or someone to bring about some healing. I don't agree with a woman (since SJM is heteronormative AF) coming along to make him a better person. It's unfair to that woman and I don't want Tamlin to only want to be a better person for someone else, but I hope down the line he finds peace. He has had and has a long existence. People aren't the same person after months so I don't think he deserves centuries worth of misery.