Nothing But Reading Challenges discussion

Rosemary and Rue (October Daye, #1)
This topic is about Rosemary and Rue
391 views
Previous BOMs - Authors; M - P > Rosemary and Rue, by Seanan McGuire (October Daye #1) ; MOD Takeover BOM ; Starts 2 July 2018

Comments Showing 1-50 of 193 (193 new)    post a comment »
« previous 1 3 4

message 1: by Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief (new) - added it

Moderators of NBRC | 31634 comments Mod


Synopsis
ctober "Toby" Daye, a changeling who is half human and half fae, has been an outsider from birth. After getting burned by both sides of her heritage, Toby has denied the Faerie world, retreating to a "normal" life. Unfortunately for her, the Faerie world has other ideas...

The murder of Countess Evening Winterrose pulls Toby back into the fae world. Unable to resist Evening's dying curse, which binds her to investigate, Toby must resume her former position as knight errant and renew old alliances. As she steps back into fae society, dealing with a cast of characters not entirely good or evil, she realizes that more than her own life will be forfeited if she cannot find Evening's killer.


message 2: by Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief (new) - added it

Moderators of NBRC | 31634 comments Mod
What is a BOM (Book of the Month)?

At NRBC we use a more structured approach to our BOMs. We have a discussion leader and a reading date is set to start the book. A reading schedule is posted prior to the start date and discussion questions are posted each day regarding that section of the book.

More info under spoiler
(view spoiler)


message 3: by Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief (last edited Jul 06, 2018 10:56PM) (new) - added it

Moderators of NBRC | 31634 comments Mod
Chapter Breakdown

Date Chapters End % MPQDs

2 July Prologue-5 23% Teddie
3 July 6-13 50% Melissa
**BREAK DAY**
5 July 14-20 75% Imke
6 July 21-end 100% Sophie Victoria



message 4: by Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief (new) - added it

Moderators of NBRC | 31634 comments Mod
Ruby Coin Book of the Month ~ Ruby Coin Ruby Coin

How to Earn:
Ruby Coin 1 Ruby Coin for half DQ participation
Ruby Coin 1 Ruby Coin for Writing Disscussion Questions
Ruby Coin 1 Ruby Coin for completing ALL days DQs within month of BOM start
Example of ways to Earn Ruby Coins: (view spoiler)

Learn about Gem coins here


message 5: by Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief (last edited Jul 01, 2018 12:06AM) (new) - added it

Moderators of NBRC | 31634 comments Mod
There were 10 items in your list. Here they are in random order:

Teddie Hermione
Melissa Gilderoy Lockhart
Imke Ginny Weasley
Sophie Pomona Sprout
Eldarwen Severus Snape
Cat Cedric
Snowtulip Bellatrix Lestrange
Michelle Draco
Lisa Luna Lovegood
Eunice Tonks

Timestamp: 2018-07-01 07:05:54 UTC


message 6: by Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief (new) - added it

Moderators of NBRC | 31634 comments Mod
reserved


message 7: by Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado (new) - rated it 4 stars

Karen ⊰✿ | 14780 comments Mod


Every now and again the mods take over a Book of the Month. We used to do it for our birthday months, but then we went from 3 BOMs each month to 2, so we haven't done it in a while.

We thought the last month of Tower Teams would be the perfect opportunity to have a third BOM!


message 8: by Sophie, The other one (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sophie (drsophie) | 3954 comments Mod
Exciting! You've picked something I've seen around but not read yet, so I'm in and will do DQs for Pomona Sprout


Victoria | 1132 comments How fun! I've debated reading this for awhile now so this is a good chance for me to read it! I'm in for DQs - also for Team Pomona Sprout.
note: I also volunteered to write for The Tattooist of Auschwitz, but would prefer to write for this one if I can't do both - if i'm even chosen :)


message 10: by Cat (new) - added it

Cat (cat_uk) | 7547 comments Mod
It's new for me, too! I'd like to have my name in the ring for DQs (Cedric)


Devann (devannm) | 2732 comments YAY! I was about to go ask in the buddy read thread if anyone was up for starting this series next month, i've been meaning to reread it for ages and i think several of us were talking about it in the every heart a doorway thread too :)


message 12: by Eunice (last edited Jun 08, 2018 06:09AM) (new)

Eunice | 508 comments I'll be joining in! I'm also up for writing DQs for Team Tonks.

But does taking over mean the mods will be writing the DQs? Is it just that they picked an extra book?


message 13: by Sophie, The other one (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sophie (drsophie) | 3954 comments Mod
If I remember rightly from when it happened before, everything is the same as other B, there just isn't the poll to choose it. So we get to write DQs if selected.


message 14: by Teddie (last edited Jun 08, 2018 09:36AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Teddie (teddieg) | 1456 comments I'm in - volunteering for DQ's as well. (Team Hermione)


Eldarwen | 10489 comments Mod
Oooh, I'm also one of those who had this series on their shelf for a while but never read it, so I'm definitely in for this one.

I could write DQs as well for Team Severus Snape.


message 16: by Michelle (new)

Michelle (govmarley) | 3115 comments Me! In for DQs and Team Draco.


message 17: by Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado (new) - rated it 4 stars

Karen ⊰✿ | 14780 comments Mod
Eunice wrote: "I'll be joining in! I'm also up for writing DQs for Team Tonks.

But does taking over mean the mods will be writing the DQs? Is it just that they picked an extra book?"


We just took over selecting the book (well, maybe I selected it and none of the other mods objected LOL). DQs are open for all


message 18: by Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado (last edited Jun 08, 2018 05:21PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Karen ⊰✿ | 14780 comments Mod
Devann wrote: "YAY! I was about to go ask in the buddy read thread if anyone was up for starting this series next month, i've been meaning to reread it for ages and i think several of us were talking about it in ..."

That's what got it in my mind. So many of us have been enjoying Seanan Mcguire, so I thought it would work well as a BOM


message 19: by Jammin Jenny (new)

Jammin Jenny (jamminjenny) | 4149 comments I have had this on my TBR for too long so I'm in too.


message 20: by Claire (last edited Jun 09, 2018 10:03AM) (new) - added it

Claire  | 3800 comments Awesome !! I was planning to read it soon!

And I'm in for DQ :)

edit: Team Hermione, sorry I forgot to specify


message 21: by Snowtulip (new)

Snowtulip | 4553 comments I'm in for DQs, Bellatrix Lestrange :)


message 22: by Shannon (new) - added it

Shannon O'Flynn | 294 comments what are the teams for


message 23: by Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado (new) - rated it 4 stars

Karen ⊰✿ | 14780 comments Mod
They are playing our Tower Teams reading challenge. You don’t need to be in a team to join the book discussion though 😉


message 24: by Shannon (new) - added it

Shannon O'Flynn | 294 comments oh ok thank you :)


Alanna | 7 comments Would you believe that the book was USD 1.99 on digital the day after I found out about this BOM?


message 26: by Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado (new) - rated it 4 stars

Karen ⊰✿ | 14780 comments Mod
Oh what luck Alanna!

Still $12 on kindle here for me. Boo. But I’ll keep an eye on it 😉


message 27: by Imke (new) - rated it 3 stars

Imke (immie75) | 1642 comments I'm in and volunteer to write DQ's Team Ginny Weasley.


Lisa - (Aussie Girl) | 5337 comments LIke the look of this one and if Mod Fantastico Karen hasn't volunteered for DQ's for Team Luna Lovegood I'm up to do them.


Sarah (sarahjh26) | 629 comments This one is a bit out of my comfort zone...but hey, who likes to be comfortable?

Joining in for Team Hermione!


message 30: by Heather (new) - added it

Heather (hlyntunstl) | 43 comments This sounds interesting. Count me in.


Jessi (jazzykitty) | 1644 comments I'm in!!


Melissa | 3007 comments I'm in and would like to sign up for DQs


message 33: by Tina ❣ (last edited Jun 28, 2018 10:31PM) (new) - added it

Tina ❣ (nutrinut) | 1908 comments I've just got the book from the library and will definitely be reading this. I sign up for back up DQ

(Team Tonks)


Lisa - (Aussie Girl) | 5337 comments Hey Mods, I know you have a lot on your plates wizarding and all... but just wondered when you are going to decide who is doing DQ's for this.. as tomorrow is the 2nd July down under.

I'm starting now... so if I am lucky enough to get picked for the DQ's I can start off...Cheers..


message 35: by Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief (new) - added it

Moderators of NBRC | 31634 comments Mod
Apologies for the delay. Breakdown now posted and DQ volunteers have been PM'd


message 36: by Claudia (new) - added it

Claudia | 435 comments I bought this book a year ago but haven't gotten around to it so can't wait to start this.


message 37: by Teddie (last edited Jul 02, 2018 06:14PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Teddie (teddieg) | 1456 comments Set 1: Prologue to chapter 5

1. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?

2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?

3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)

4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?

5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?

6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?


Tizzy | 13 comments 1. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?

I'm not sure there's any specific relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted, but then again we know very little of Simon at this point other than that he's evil. Maybe he plotted the whole thing, making it last exactly that long. As for why October calls those six months her penance, I think she sees having to rebuild her life away from her family and the fae world as her just desert for dealing with them. I mean, it's quite obvious she doesn't like the fae and would perhaps even rather have been born a regular human.

2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?

I'm not sure about the quarter fae thing - perhaps when there's very little fae on somebody there's a chance they just take to their human side (as it would be the major part of them) and just not display any magic, or at least enough magic, to have to make the choice at all?

As for avoiding her mother, assuming Gilly was a child of say, seven or eight, she would be in her early twenties now. Meaning she'd likely be keeping a grudge against her mother for having disappeared - plus, it's only been six months since she came back. However, those grudges eventually fade so I'm sure she'll try to contact her eventually, if not during this book at least at some point in the series.

3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)

I agree. Cats are annoying and fluffy so I allow them around.

4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?

This is difficult to answer because we know what we know only from October's point of view, but it seems to me like all of the fae hate each other and spend their time warring and plotting stuff against and using one another to attain power. I might be wrong, tho.

5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?

I think October is a deeply jaded person with a tendency to see the worst in everything, not to mention very given to complaining. This is partly due to her position of being literally between worlds without either being particularly kind to her (at least from her point of view,) but at least a chunk of this is just her personality. Literature is full of jaded female main characters (Jessica Jones comes to mind,) and even the world is full of people of both genders like that. At least October only comes off as jaded, not mean, so we're allowed to care about her.

As for why she doesn't go after her daughter, I think she's just trying to respect her. She probably knows showing up uninvited, unexpected, and unwanted won't attain much more than making her daughter angrier, so she'd rather wait for it to pass. October is expected to live centuries anyway, so it's quite likely she'll survive her daughter (since those who are only 1/4 fae should live shorter, shouldn't they?) and even then her daughter being part fae probably means they have at least a century to patch things up.

6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?

I think it might, but I'm really puzzled about all this. The Queen of Mists isn't presented as a likable character at all, and since October basically describes everyone as mean we can't know if she's hiding something or just being a petulant, spoiled child. I believe whatever is going on is probably way bigger than Evening having forgotten to pay for her share of the rent that month, tho.


message 39: by Lisa - (Aussie Girl) (last edited Jul 02, 2018 07:19PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Lisa - (Aussie Girl) | 5337 comments SET 1 - PROLOGUE - CHAPTER 5 ANSWERS. -

1. Wow, that prologue was different, I had to read it twice to double check she was really turned into a fish. Not sure if the double time was significant although it may have been Simon making a point. October seems to hate her fae roots highlighted by the fact she has taken a human partner and had a quarter fae child. She tried to turn her back on the fae and then by being sucked back in resulting in her curse she now doubt thinks she has horribly hurt the ones she loves most. Thus that penance in her own mind.


2. It does mention that some people with fae ancestry are very weak in their powers. Perhaps Gillys haven't manifested and she is very bitter by her mother's apparent disappearance.

3. So true about cats, I did smile at this comparison but they can be very lovable,

4. No definitely a fae thing. In most literature they are different to humans in their cold and even cruel emotions and this story seems to support that mythology.

5. I wondered about that as well. But she had kept her fae heritage a secret so appearing 14 years later the same as when she left would need some explaining. Maybe she decides to shield her partner and child by not exposing them to the truth. She seems to be very hostile to the fae and also full of recriminations and guilt.

6. The missing Kings and Queens of the Courts of the Fae has been mentioned and I immediately thought that October will find out what has happened to them. Also that October is special to the Fae, and this will be revealed.



message 40: by Heather (new) - added it

Heather (hlyntunstl) | 43 comments 1. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance? The curse was heartless but we also saw how the fae community helps Toby whether she wants help or not. I think the curse goes more to the cruelty of Simon and Oleander. I also wonder if they truly intended for her to remain in the pond or to ever return since they were interrupted during the spell.

I think she sees it as penance for leaving her family and being unable to save Sylvester’s. She also wasn’t able to tell her family the truth about her disappearance. None of it was her fault but guilt doesn’t always have reason. I’m sure she sees everything after her return as penance.

2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?I would think Gilly would be a changeling but she could have chosen her father without even knowing as Toby did. Gilly would likely have feared losing 2 parents.

While it’s sad that Gilly will not see her mother, I think that’s because we know the truth. I imagine that If I had a parent who disappeared and returned with a weird story about amnesia with no proof, I wouldn’t be too keen to see them either. Maybe Gilly did have to go through the Changeling Choice but, as of now, it sounds like she was raised as a human. Maybe we’ll find out different later. It doesn’t even sound like her husband knew.

3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;) We’ve had more dogs than cats but we were lucky as ours were always cuddlers. This description does match one of my sister’s cats perfectly.

4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?They both, but especially Tybalt, seem to be watching her in a similar way she was watching Simon in the Prologue. I think there was a love/hate with Evening (she did call Toby friend at the end) while there’s just annoyance/hate with Tybalt. I think this is typical Toby post-pond but it sounds like she had plenty of friends and family before. You don’t continue reaching out to a bad friend if they make it clear they don’t want to be involved like Mitch and Stacy do.

5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October? I think she feels horrible guilt and, after reaching out and hearing that Gilly has no interest in her, she feels that’s what’s best for her daughter. She’s definitely not happy about it and hopes Gilly comes to her but feels she shouldn’t/can’t reach out again and further disrupt her life.

6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?I wonder if there’s a time component or something that negates the time in the pond. There’s also the mystery of Sylvester’s missing family that Evening could have been referring to. This may be wishful thinking as I always want a happy ending.


Sarah (sarahjh26) | 629 comments 1. As to what Tizzy was saying, October definitely is bitter about being partially in both the human world and the fae world. She believes her mother blames her for taking her away from her husband and October's dad. Also, I can definitely understand how she blames the fae world from taking her life from her twice. First, her human life when she was a child and then with Simon's fish spell for 14 years.

And that is such a brutal choice a changeling child has to make! Imagine deciding to be fae and therefore her entire human life, including her human parent, is literally killed. (The fae parent is also forcefully brought back to live in the fae world.) If the child chooses the be human, they are killed in an 'accident' but their parents get to live. How brutal!

I don't have any specific thoughts in regards to the length of the spell other than to think it is very specific. I'm not sure I see the six months after recovery from the fish spell as penance.

2. I also think Gilly probably didn't have to make the Changeling's Choice. She doesn't have enough fae in her to have to make it.

I also expect we will see Gilly later in the book.

3. Oh I need my cat! She is my best friend! I love my little girl : ) So she'll always stay.

4. I expect that the love/hate relationships are pretty standard for the fae. You're going to have other fae with the same allegiance as yours, even if you don't like them. Likewise, people you like/get along with won't always have the same liege.

5. Tizzy's comparison between October and Jessica Jones is totally apt! I see both in each charatcer. Nice catch!

Also, do we even know for sure whether Gilly know's her mother is a changeling? We know the fiance didn't. I guess this also pertains to the question of Gilly's Changeling's Choice.

Another thought...did October normally age as a fish? Imagine not seeing uour daughter for 14 years, coming back and not looking a day older.

Also, October does seem a bit immature in her emotions. Just completely given up with life, which I guess is understandable, but how can she go on that way? She literally cannot pay rent. So even in Evening's death never happened, October would have had to figure something out quick.

6. I have no idea what the mockery could be. No sense at all. We also don't know what the deal was with the Simon thing, as that was a complete set up. So is her liege, Sylvester, I think, involved somehow?


message 42: by Claudia (last edited Jul 02, 2018 08:12PM) (new) - added it

Claudia | 435 comments 1. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?

I don’t know if the length of time holds relevance. I thought it was mainly to drive home how cruel Simon was and how much October lost. I think she calls the six months are her penance because she is dealing with everything she lost and she obviously blames the fae for it. I think she considers it her own fault for choosing them.

2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?

That’s a good question and I was wondering this myself. Maybe Gilly is mostly human and never developed any power or maybe later on she will develop power and end up having to choose. Toby stated even if you chose human the child was still taken until they got control. Toby stated if she had chosen human she would have still been taken but her mother would have been left behind.

3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)

That sounds about right for cats. Cats tend to be like I put up with you because you feed me but I don’t really need you. And yet we still keep them around and they still stay.

4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?

I haven’t decided yet. Think this is just how October views things. I kind of feel like Tybalt doesn’t quite feel the way she thinks he feels about her. I mean she stated that he deliberately seeks her out to pick fights with her. I don’t know about you but when I hate people I don’t go out of way to track them down and see them. I tend to be happy avoiding them and having them out of life.

5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changeling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?

I feel like she is too busy being bitter and wallowing in her pain. She came back and years had passed so it’s understandable she feels angry. She was thrust into a new world and found that her ex wants nothing to do with her and her child also has rejected her. Maybe she is just respecting Gilly’s wishes of not seeing her

6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?

I kind of felt like maybe there is a conspiracy going on. Part of me wonders if it is connected to back when Toby went missing. Another part of me wonders if the Queen has an idea of what is going on but not wanting to get involved out of fear. It sounded like the Queen doesn’t have much support herself so maybe she is worried they will strike against her. Also just not enough known yet to really make a guess.


Jessi (jazzykitty) | 1644 comments Set 1: Prologue to chapter 5

1. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?

I'm not sure about the relevance in the time the curse lasted. Maybe it's longer than how long humans are held because the fae completely despise changelings, maybe even more than they despise humans because they are forced to deal with changelings more often.
As for her penance. I think it's because she feels she messed up and caught by Simon so she feels the curse is her fault more than anything. And she also feels the guilt of what happened with her father and maybe she feels she did the same to her daughter.

2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?

I think that a quarter fae isn't enough for a choice to be made. It was implied that if a changeling chose human they were killed in a mysterious "accident". Since Gilly is alive and living with her human father than she never had to make a choice since she probably has no powers. Her mother, Toby, is half fae and is pretty weak when it comes to faerie powers so my guess is that she doesn't have any magic at all. And because of all this she is not curious at all about her mother and her side of the family.

3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)

Haha I have 3 cats and they're happy as long as their fed.

4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?

I don't think it's too typical for the fae. I'm still not sure about Tybalt's stance with Toby and what they're story is yet so I'll wait and see with them. Evening, however, we got a bit more story there. She seems to have respected Toby for hard work even if Toby is a changeling. They seemed to have the type of relationship where one helped the other and then the other repaid them but there is no real love or friendship there. Toby says Evening was a friend but perhaps that's just her human side talking.

5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?

As a mom I don't understand her either but perhaps this is where her fae side comes in. She is probably scared of getting too close to her since she's missed so many years of her daughter's life. Toby would most likely outlive her daughter by several centuries since her daughter is 3/4's human and would live a normal mortal human life.

6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?

I haven't the foggiest as to what the mockery is or why the Queen of Mists won't help. She's clearly shaken and surprised but beyond that...not a clue..


message 44: by Geri (new) - rated it 4 stars

Geri | 2042 comments 1. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?

Yes, I think Simon was trying to be especially cruel to October. I don’t think it was a coincidence that the time was doubled.

October likely feels responsible for getting caught by Simon. And now she is living a sad, lonely life as her penance.

2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?

Good observation about Gilly and her mother being turned into a fish! I hope we do find out what happened to Gilly. I don’t think October has contacted her family so Gilly likely doesn’t have the choice to connect with her mother or not.

3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)

Don’t even get me started about cats! I’ve got 2 spoiled, high maintenance cats. :) I love them, but I agree with you, I don’t own them!

4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?

I am enjoying this dynamic in her relationships with other fae. I chuckled quite a bit. I think it is an October thing.

5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?

So far I like her. She is very reluctant to get involved in her previous life. That is why she hasn’t contacted her family. How does she explain why she disappeared for 14 years? But I like that she takes responsibility for investigating her friend’s death. Her loyalty to her friend wins out over continuing to hide from everyone and everything.

6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?

Yes, that could be it. I found it strange that the Queen freaked out like she did. And refused to hear anything October had to say. Very suspicious!


Devann (devannm) | 2732 comments it's so fun to be rereading this series because while there is actually a LOT of stuff i've forgotten, it's great when toby randomly mentions something in passing and i'm sitting here like 'oh i cannot wait to get to that part!'. also interesting to see everyone's speculations.

Set 1: Prologue to chapter 5

1. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?

well to most of the fae - or at least the purebloods - that curse wouldn't really seem that cruel. i mean what is 14 years when you're going to live forever? we haven't really gotten into it that much yet but you'll see later the huge disconnect between purebloods and changelings because time just literally means nothing to the purebloods. as for why fourteen years, SPOILERS FOR FUTURE BOOKS (view spoiler) as for her 'penance', she feels responsible that she didn't stop simon / save luna and raysel.

2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?

gilly hasn't made the choice yet because [and i think this part might have gone over a few people's heads from the responses here] if she had chosen fae she would be in the summerlands and if she had chosen human she would be dead. i can't remember how young she was when toby was turned into a fish but it was pretty young so think she's actually still a teen at this point. her having to make the changeling's choice does come up later but i'm thinking it's not for several books so she is a pretty late bloomer i guess. it's sad that she doesn't want to see her mom but i also understand because in her mind the whole situation is [excuse the pun] pretty fishy [pause for groaning] and she probably thinks her mom just abandoned her.

3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)

yuuuuuup. i am currently watching my cat destroy my blinds as she tries to burrow through them to look outside lol

4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?

i think it is pretty typical of the fae because when you live forever you apparently have nothing better to do than be bitchy all the time, but also you'll see as we go on that october inspires very strong feelings of both hatred and loyalty depending on who she's interacting with, but i don't think anyone is ever really just neutral about their feelings for her lol

5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?

i think at this point she is hoping that gilly doesn't have enough magic to have to make the choice or that maybe if she stays away then the other fae will forget about her. she obviously misses her daughter but she hates faerie so much that she would rather give her daughter a chance away from all that and feels like she would be better off without her. plus she's been gone basically her entire life so she missed everything with her growing up, she probably feels like she doesn't belong there.

i absolutely love october. i feel that she is a flawed character in a lot of ways but she is also so completely relatable and real and just a total mess a lot of the time in ways that female characters often aren't allowed to be. i agree with the jessica jones comparison but women like jessica and toby are definitely the minority in most literature and the role of like 'depressed foul mouthed loner anti-hero' is generally reserved for men.

the reason i even started this series [and discovered my favorite author!] was because i saw an interview seanan had done where her editor told her toby was too much of a bitch and no one would like her and seanan was just like 'go through and replace her name with harry dresden and tell me if she's still a bitch' and the editor didn't give her anymore shit after that lol.

6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?

i actually don't entirely remember what evening wants october to find out so this is kind of a mystery to me too even though i've actually read it before. i know some of the elements to it but i don't want to talk about them because they haven't been introduced yet. anyway, it's definitely not what you'd expect!


Melissa | 3007 comments Set 1: Prologue to chapter 5

1. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?

This was very strange to me and I'm sure there is significance to the time frame.

2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?

Since October's husband doesn't know that she is Fae it would make sense that her daughter didn't know either. I found it very strange that they wouldn't have wanted to see her and believe that she was still alive. I wouldn't care what the reason was if I were in their place. I would want to see my husband.

3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)

I have 2 cats and I 100% agree LOL

4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?

I think it is typical Fae and Changeling

5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?

I don't understand it either. I don't understand why she didn't go to them right away or why she waited 3 days to even call her husband. It is really strange

6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?

No Idea whatsoever!!!!


message 47: by Erin (new) - rated it 3 stars

Erin | 612 comments I was waiting for a copy from the library, but it looks like that's not going to happen. Just picked up a copy, and will start today!


message 48: by [deleted user] (new)

Day 1, Set 1: Prologue to chapter 5

1. What strikes me is the heartlessness of the fae, or perhaps a better way to say it is their lack of humanity. That curse was so cruel: October was spelled into becoming a fish, and the spell stuck for 14 years, twice the length a human is held in the fae hollow hills. Do you think there is any relevance to the amount of time the spell lasted? Why do you think October calls the 6 months after she emerges from the spell her penance?


I don't know why the "fish spell" lasted that long and why Simon didn't just kill her or leave Toby as a fish forever. I felt bad for her that she lost Cliff and Gilly, especially Gilly. She didn't seem like a bad person before the fish incident, so I don't know why she would call that time her penance.

2. The daughter's name is Gilly and her mother was turned into a fish? Seems like someone should have seen that coming. Ok, the question: If Gilly is a quarter fae, doesn't that make her a changeling as well? If 14 years has passed, it seems she didn't need to make the choice, or she chose human - do you think the choice has been made? What do you think about a daughter not wanting to see her mother - even with just a quarter fae, wouldn't there be some things that are strange in her life? Wouldn't she want some answers?

Oh my, I missed both of those points, the Gilly/fish connection and the fact that Gilly is part fae! So I wonder if Gilly will try to reconnect with Toby after she develops some strange abilities.

3. I laughed at the comparison of cats to Sidhe, "...where both sides said, "I don't need you," and both answered, "You'll still stay." How many cat caretakers (as one never OWNS a cat) out there agree? (Non-cat people: feel free to chime in. ;)

I've never had a cat, so I probably don't understand that line as much as others do.

4. In these few opening chapters, we are introduced to two characters, Tybalt and Evening, both of whom October seems to have a hate/love or love/hate relationship with, while there is still some sort of a bond. Do you think this typical of the fae, or just October?

This is just typical of October. The other fae seem fine with their fae-ness and are probably fine with other fae. But being only part-fae, October's childhood was interrupted and all just to be at the bottom of the fae food chain. So it's not really a nice deal for her.

5. After 5 chapters, I am having a hard time understanding October. I know she is a changling and so only half human, but I don't understand why she doesn't go to her child. I am hoping there is more context about her pre-fish years so I have a better view on why she makes the choices she makes. What is your take on October?

I thought it was Gilly not wanting to see Toby which I thought was weird. What child wouldn't want to see their mother who has been found after 14 years? If Cliff married someone else, I could see him not wanting to rekindle things with Toby, but I would have thought Gilly would want to see her mother no matter what. So I'm hoping that will be explored more in the story, what's going on with Cliff and Gilly and maybe what happeend to them after Toby went missing.

6. When October relives Evening's death, she hears Evening say about her: "...she'll find what's been left for her to find, she'll end this mockery at last." What are your guesses about what the "mockery" is? Do you think it has something to do with why the Queen of Mists won’t help find Evening’s killer?

That was such a strange reaction from the Queen of Mists. Was she that distraught that she didn't want to picture Evening's painful death? I have no clue what the mockery could be. Maybe someone in Simon's camp is pretending to be someone else and Toby is the only one who will be able to see and reveal the truth.


message 49: by Melissa (last edited Jul 03, 2018 11:57AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Melissa | 3007 comments Chapters 6-13

7. During these chapters we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to.

8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away?

9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?

10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)

11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?

12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me!



Tizzy | 13 comments 7. During these chapters we meet Devin. What are your thoughts on him? How do you feel about the things he does to these runaways? October claims they used each other but love each other all the same. What do you think of their relationship? He searched for her for 10 years when no one else cared enough to.

First, the idea that she was both one of the children he helped and his lover seems... creepy. I know she states everything that happened there was consensual, but he was still in a position of power regarding her so I don't feel quite ok with that - particularly since it's implied he's done that with several of the girls he harbors at Home.

He does seem to care about her and the kids he takes care of, tho. He reminded me a bit of the old man in Oliver Twist, who'd offer orphans a place to live and food in exchange for their help stealing stuff for him.

8. Winterrose did a lot for October - more then she ever knew. She kept her Home safe while she was missing. Why do you think that was? How was it that Evening cared so much for October when it's clear that October kept pushing her away?

As I mentioned on yesterday's question, October is really jaded and prone to seeing only the worst in people. It's clear at this point of the novel that she tends to assume people dislike her, or use her, or just plain want her out of their way when they care about her. It's not just Winterrose, but her liege, and even Devin who show care for her in ways we wouldn't have expected based on what she said during the first 25% of the novel.

Also, Winterrose probably cared about those kids too, not just October. I think part of the issues October has with her relationships to purebloods is that they all hold power over her, and their society is such that they feel they can wield that power however they want without a problem - something October, being half-human and knowing a somewhat more egalitarian society, doesn't quite agree with. This might be tainting her point of view with others.

9. After October's visit with Devin she gets trapped in fog caused by a rose goblin. The goblin hands her the key that Evening gave away right before she was murdered. By using the key October found the Hope Chest which she assumes is why Evening was murdered. The Hope Chest give a changeling the ability to become Pure Blood. If Evening had this why do you think she never told October or offered it to her?

Because nobody knows what the Home Chest really does, and it is shown to tempt changelings to open it, potentially unleashing evil upon the world. The Chest is Pandora's Box, and a very special kind of it that's specifically engineered to tempt those of a certain social standing with opening it. Telling October would've been an unnecessary risk, as would have been offering it to her since nobody really knows what's in that box.

10. October gives the chest to Tybalt for keeping, making him promise to protect it for her. What do you think of him so far? I think his relationship with October is so interesting. To me, it seems like he cares about her even though October keeps saying there is nothing but hate between them. He's like a little boy teasing the girl he likes mercilessly because he's embarrassed he likes her. :)

Tybalt seems to like her, yes. Though I fear he might have other motives for hanging around her - he might actually be working for the enemy. I can't be sure where he stands.

11. It seems as if October's magic is becoming easier for her to do. Do you think the Hope Chest has already affected her? Do you think it will ever wear off?

I'm not sure it's shown to be easier after she touches the chest as I can't recall her doing much magic except for the fumbled spell to create a new dress for Sylvester's court, but the chest is shown to have cured her of her headache and the expected magic burn, so... perhaps? Dunno if it'll last, tho.

12. We finally meet Sylvester and his family? What do you think of them? Connor seems like a strange guy to figure out to me!

I loved Sylvester, as he seems really caring of October even when she kept avoiding him (which only feeds into my theory that October tends to ostracize herself by looking for reasons to dislike people.)

I liked Luna better tho, because I couldn't figure out if she likes October or hates her. Her pose as October enters the court isn't precisely welcoming, but she carries herself quite gracefully around her to the point of seeming welcoming. Whether that's an act she pulls for Sylvester's or whether she hates October as much as her daughter does I can't be sure, tho.

Also, her daughter. What's up with that. She's shown to be rather... crazy, but at the same time October thinks she might be involved in what's going on, so I'm very curious about this.

As for Connor, he was ok, I guess. I liked the page better, Connor seemed rather goofy for my taste :P


« previous 1 3 4
back to top