May 2018 - The Last Report on the MIracles at LIttle No Horse

[Janice, Moderator]

I'm struggling to fit it in too, Sandra. I went to "psycho shorts" at the Short Film Fest last night. We had pizza and about 10 short films all about murder and mayhem including some ghosts and vampires. I didn't get home until midnight.

[Cherie]

I read chapter 6 and 7 today.

My head is spinning at all that happened. I feel like I can barely grasp it all, it is so strange.

[Ashley]

Chapter 9

(view spoiler)[I love the banter between father Jude and Damien. I laughed when Father Jude said sex hurts and Damien asked him if he’s seen a doctor. The rivalry between the groups on the reservation is pretty intense. They’ve got like a Hatfield and McCoys situation going on. (hide spoiler)]

[Janice, Moderator]

Cherie wrote: "I read chapter 6 and 7 today.

My head is spinning at all that happened. I feel like I can barely grasp it all, it is so strange."

Sounds intriguing, Cherie. Could you try to articulate that in a spoiler?

[Ashley]

Cherie wrote: "I read chapter 6 and 7 today.

My head is spinning at all that happened. I feel like I can barely grasp it all, it is so strange."

I agree! I feel like there were some really big events that seemed to have been just skimmed over and not much time spent on them making it hard to interpret how it really happened.

[Cherie]

Hahaha. Thank you, Ashley, for sticking up for me.

Sorry, Janice. It was late when I quit and I couldn't think what to say, even to put into a spoiler. If you have been curious about the Indians and some of the people that have been mentioned so far, you won't be disappointed. It was just so much! I think you just have to swallow it all down and then maybe we can talk about it.

[Janice, Moderator]

I have finished to the end of Chapter 5 -

Chapter 4 - (view spoiler)[ Things were so brutal when Agnes arrived in Little No Horse. It was freezing cold and there was no food. I was repulsed by the fact that she crawled into the old priest's bed even though it hadn't been cleaned from when he died in it. I guess when you are desperate, cleanliness doesn't matter. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 5 - (view spoiler)[ I had made an instant liking to Kashpaw, and the foreshadowing leaves me a little anxious as to what will happen to him.

I had been wondering how Father Damien had dealt with menstruation. How did he keep that hidden? As Father Damien heads to visit Nanapush, he prays that his monthly cycles be taken from him. If only it could be that simple. But, it's evidence of the magical realism in the story.

Imagine being so hungry that you would drink spruce needle tea. I think I'd go for boiled water. And then to gorge on porcupine. I would think that going from empty stomach to full like that would have induced vomiting as is often the case in starvation.

Nanapush is an interesting man, and still a bit of a mystery to me. (hide spoiler)]

[Janice, Moderator]

Cherie wrote: "I am reading chapter 5.
I keep missing the "and" in the sentences. Does anyone else feel that way? I keep stopping and rereading to find what is not there. I have a question about her breakfast too..." (from message 40)

I pondered over that sentence too and wondered if it was a typo.

[Janice, Moderator]

How is everyone doing? The discussion seemed to stop over the weekend. I hope people are enjoying the book and are just busy with real life. My last week has been rather busy and my reading time has suffered. I crawled into bed last night and kept reading the same paragraph over and over. I realized I was too tired to absorb it so turned out the light. When I woke this morning, I realized I had one page of chapter 5 left. Isn't that the way of it.

[Ashley]

Chapter 14

I’ve been too caught up in the story to stop and post about it. (view spoiler)[ First of all, the black dog. To be honest I thought the black dog was creepy. Was Damien just sick and delirious or is the black dog really the devil? Then Father Gregory, wow! I bet neither of them was expecting that relationship! Keeping the identity of Father Damien must be really important to Agnes for her to give up love and and a most certainly easier life to continue to be a priest. I wonder if the black dog had anything to do with her decision. Did she think Father Gregory was simply sent as a temptation? I like how that relationship brings up the question, how can love be wrong? (hide spoiler)]

[Ashley]

Chapter 14
I can’t remember what happened in which chapters but chapter 14 is the furthest I’ve read

LuLu and Fluer (view spoiler)[ I can’t imagine the amount of betrayal and abandonment Lulu felt when she was taken from her home and sent to a school away from her family when her mom knew about it prior. It’s a shame that both mother and daughter are so stubborn that they can’t rebuild their relationship. Fluer got her land back but was it worth the cost? I'm surprised she could go from living a life of luxury to going back to the reservation <\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

@ Janice's spoiler from chapter 5 re tea (view spoiler)[ I have read other books where spruce needle tea was mentioned. It is probably an acquired taste for the Indians. I believe it has some medicinal qualities, but I am not sure. Nanapush was quite interesting, indeed. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Janice wrote: "How is everyone doing? The discussion seemed to stop over the weekend. I hope people are enjoying the book and are just busy with real life. My last week has been rather busy and my reading time ha..."

Juggling Circe and Little No Horse is an unexpected challenge. I want to read both, but Circe is a little more enjoyable.

[Cherie]

Chapter 6 (view spoiler)[I think what struck me about this chapter was how manipulative Nanapush was. It was obvious that the Indians had figured out how Father Hugo would have reacted to Kashpaw having more than one wife and tried to have taken steps to address it. Father Damien did not fit the typical male priest role though. The wrangling was amusing. I really thought the story of Nanapush and the Indians and the re-creation of their tribe, after the sickness, very interesting. When Kashpaw confronted Father Damien about why he followed Jesus, I thought the paragraph about love was striking and Father Damien got an Alter Boy out of it. The story of Kashpaw's Passion was sad and the story that followed almost incomprehensible, especially Quill's madness. I did not understand the spirit woman and the whole dirt thing. Is she possessed? The story of John James Mauser was tragic for the Indians. He takes their land by trickery, gives them money and then provides them with alcohol. It is like the never-ending-story of the American Indians. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 7 (view spoiler)[The story of The Feast of the Virgin and The Puyat was as good as any Garcia dream state I have read! It was almost funny, but NOT. The whole dying scene was unreal and the prophesy of the sickness coming from the east awful.
The whole digging episode with Mary Kashpaw was weird. I thought it interesting how Agnes tried to come up with an explanation. The dream was quite interesting as well as the solution - for her enter the convent... and 5 years passed. Did you pick up on that? The flu and The Puyat seemed to have been made for each other and Agnes saw Jesus in Mary Kashpaw. Did I get it? 1919 - Agness has come to want to avoid Pauline. I liked "The girl's false humility was a stale grease Agnes could taste, but she opened the door unhappily and allowed the girl to enter. It seemed Pauline's whole confession was just to get close to Agnes to fall against her and what - try to see if her breasts were bound. Does she suspect Agnes? I do not understand the whole victim soul story. I felt sorry for Sister Hiledgarde! Just too strange. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

I finished chapter 8. (view spoiler)[ I don't know which story was sadder, Pauline's or that of the buffalo. I'm reviewing my bookmarks: In the beginning of the chapter, wasn't it interesting that Father Jude saw an old woman in the doorway as Father Damien waved good good night? I loved it when Farher Jude was saying his prayers in bed "God," he said, "help me out, here." And last, The race. Quite a story! I want to know what "The earth purred underneath her makizinan that day." meant. Her feet?? (hide spoiler)]

[Janice, Moderator]

I had real life book club tonight and it's way past my bed time so I doubt I'll get any reading done. The next book we're to read is Indian Horse which is also about Ojibwa, only in Northern Ontario. I won't have any trouble filling that task on the zodiac challenge.

[Laura (Lclwags)]

Cherie wrote: "I finished chapter 1
@ Sister Cecilia Never heard of Swabian before, but I knew that the woman said that she was hungry. Oh, I loved the description of the convent and the music Sister Cecilia pl..."

I'm glad I'm not the only one (view spoiler)[ who listened to the piano pieces Agnes plays. I had to hear what pieces were having such a profound impact on her. I played piano for years when I was in elementary school, but I definitely never connected to it like that! (hide spoiler)]

[Ashley]

Chapter 19

Nanapush (view spoiler)[I couldn’t help but laugh at most of the moose/boat scene. He is such a character. He wouldn’t even die in a conventional way. Not many can annoy people at their own wake haha. <\spoiler>

Father Gregory (view spoiler)[ I knew he’d come back! I didn’t think he’d come back to die though. Interesting how Damien didn’t like him calling her Agnes or how she felt he was belittling her because she is a woman. I think Agnes is more Father Damien than Agnes now. <\spoiler> (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Ashley - you are really powering through. I cannot seem to get more than one chapter done at a time.

I finished reading Chapter 9 today.

[Ashley]

I’ve been reading three or four chapters at a time but then I can’t remember exactly what happened in which chapters so most of my comments are probably from previous chapters. I should really start using the bookmark feature.

[Ashley]

There are so many different characters and strange things happening in this book. There is so much to comment on and I end up forgetting to mention lots of things. Definitely a good pick for a group book because there’s no shortage of things to discuss.

[Janice, Moderator]

I've run out of time and need to get to work, so I will try to comment later on. It's a super busy day.

I've read to the end of Chapter 6.

[Ashley]

Just finished the book. The last few chapters really brings the story together.

Father Jude (view spoiler)[ He figures out that Father Damien has a secret but he’s wrong about what the secret it. I was a bit surprised Damien doesn’t tell him that he is not LuLu’s father. Perhaps he does feel like an actual father to her. Or maybe the only reason he doesn’t say anything is so his real secret can stay hidden. <\spoiler>

Mary Kashpaw (view spoiler)[ I think the love Mary has for Damien is the best example of love in the whole story. She is loyal to him and helped him keep his secret even after his death. She led him back to the living when he was stuck in the spirit world and has been his protector and took care of him for most of the book. I think it made perfect sense that it was her that helps Damien’s final wishes to be carried out. <\spoiler>

Father Damien/Agnes (view spoiler)[ The whole book I’ve been wondering is this character more Father Damien or more Agnes but after finishing the book I think it’s not one or the other but she is both Father Damien and Agnes. I like that Father Jude came to the conclusion that maybe Damien is the saint not Leopolda. <\spoiler>

I really enjoyed the book. I’m glad it was a group book because I never would have chose it myself. (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Janice, Moderator]

You finished it quickly, Ashley. I'll have to come back to read your spoilers because I'm not even half way through it. It's awesome that you gave it 5 stars. Is this the first book you've read by Louise Erdrich?

[Janice, Moderator]

Chapter 6 - (view spoiler)[ I remember years ago, my boss coming into my office with the office manager in tow. The office manager was smug and almost preening at the certain dressing down I was going to get. She left rather deflated when my boss realized that I was not at fault. Nanapush reminded me of this office manager. His meddling was more of a inducement to what happened than Father Bishop asking how many of Kashpaw's wives were formal marriages.

What happened to Quill was shocking. Could her sister's presence really ward off her neurosis? Perhaps she was able to hide it better.

This section touches on the impact of the missionaries on the native people and their culture. I think religion has a lot to answer for in the destruction of their culture. But religion is not alone in that. The last part about Mauser addresses the greed of the government and settlers for their land. I imagine more emphasis on these subjects later in the book. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 7, to the end of the section "Kashpaw's Vision & Quill's Peace - (view spoiler)[ What a horrific chain of events that led to Kashpaw's & Quill's deaths. And what a horrible way to die.

I had to laugh at the statue of the virgin Mary crashing through the window of the saloon, tipping upright in such a way that the sun shining in was like a halo around her. That was such an amusing image in my mind. (hide spoiler)]

[Ashley]

Janice wrote: "You finished it quickly, Ashley. I'll have to come back to read your spoilers because I'm not even half way through it. It's awesome that you gave it 5 stars. Is this the first book you've read by ..."

It is the first book I’ve read by her. It definitely won’t be the last though

[Janice, Moderator]

I've read The Round House and really enjoyed it. Quite a few of her books are on my wishlist as a result. I'm glad I finally got around to reading this one.

[Janice, Moderator]

I finished Chapter 7 -

(view spoiler)[ Pauline Puyat is a very flawed person. It was horrifying to learn that she had been raped and had a still born child. What is even more horrifying is that she believed herself to somehow at fault and therefore the blame was hers.

The flu of 1918 was devastating. It was shortly after we moved into this area that I took an alternate road into the city and discovered a small graveyard on a knoll surrounded by trees. There were a number of white wooden crosses. I was curious about it. The next time I drove by, I stopped and read the plaque. These were people who died in the flu epidemic.

Mary's digging - the earth seems to be symbolic in this book. Quill, in her madness crammed dirt into every body orifice and into the children's mouths. Mary's compulsion had her continually digging. Even the "ground meat" (who thought of hamburger when you read that) ties in. Just an observation. (hide spoiler)]

[Renee]

This author is hit and miss for me. I loved Love Medicine but hated Antelope Wife. I only rea her for group type reads. This book sound interesting but my library is being stingy. I will join in when I can

[Janice, Moderator]

I'm enjoying this one, Renee. I'm feeling a little disjointed but I think that's caused by me and not by the book. I want to have it finished before I leave next Tuesday so I'm putting pressure on myself.

[Cherie]

Sorry. I took a Pendergast book detour, but I should be back to this story today.

[Cherie]

I read chapter 10 and chapter 11 today. The time jumps are disconcerting and it is hard to figure out what happened when.

Chapter 10 (view spoiler)[I thought it very enterprising, the way Father Damien got people to send donations to the Mission. Amazing- what people send too! I thought that it was interesting how Agnes/Father Damien could merge the Church doctrine with the Ojibwey spiritual beliefs and carry on in her administrations to the Indians and the Mission. It seemed right that Agnes would grow to love the people and consider them her family. The way that the land was stolen from the Indians was awful. I'm not sure I understood about Fleur and the bones. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 11 (view spoiler)[ The deal Agnes made with the black dog, in exchange for Lulu seemed like something Agnes would do, but the temptation was truly awful, wasn't it? (hide spoiler)]

[Janice, Moderator]

I'm in the middle of Chapter 9 to the end of the section titled "Penmanship"

Chapter 8 - Mary's Confession: (view spoiler)[How could Sister Leopolda even be considered for sainthood? I guess we'll find out eventually. She was cruel in the extreme to Mary - scalding her, stabbing her with a fork. Stigmata, my ass. It was interesting that Mary refused to talk to Father Jude. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 8 - History of the Puyat: (view spoiler)[ Such a violent past. I would say that Pauline (Sister L)'s upbringing led more to madness than sainthood. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 9 - The Rosary (view spoiler)[ Who made the rosary with the barbs sticking out between the beads? And was it used for self flagellation? This makes me think of the scene in The Davinci Code when Paul Bellamy as the albino monk self flagellated himself. In fact, he reminds me of Sister L in some ways - the inability to see that the violence was not of religious zeal. They can't see the difference between right or wrong. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 9 - The Funeral: (view spoiler)[ That was quite a spectacle. Can you imagine have to hold two services for the different warring factions? (hide spoiler)]

Thoughts about Agnes/Father Damien - (view spoiler)[ I'm beginning to wonder about the significance of Father Damien being a woman. What does it bring to the story? Right now, it seems to be a moot point. Maybe more will come about later on, (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 9 - Penmanship: (view spoiler)[ That was short-sighted on Nectar's part. I can see there are going to be some resulting issues from him destroying the original documents. (hide spoiler)]

[Janice, Moderator]

Ashley, I hope you are still reading along with the discussion. I noticed that you didn't report that you finished the book. You are eligible to receive a badge, but you need to report that you discussed the book in this thread.

[Ashley]

Janice wrote: "Ashley, I hope you are still reading along with the discussion. I noticed that you didn't report that you finished the book. You are eligible to receive a badge, but you need to report that you dis..."

Hey! I’m definitely still following along. So much happened in this book I feel like I forgot to comment on lots of important things.

[Ashley]

Chapter 9
(view spoiler)[I agree with you Janice, sister Leopolda thinks she is justified in doing horrible things if she believes she is doing them for religious reasons. Then she has zero remorse for doing it because she thinks she’s in the right. Not very saintly! <\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Chapter 12 (view spoiler)[ That was the shortest chapter in the whole book, so far! I've read it three times. Did Nanapush believe Agnes a woman posing as a man or a man posing as a woman? I was shocked when he asked her if she was a female priest or a male priest and she started crying. When she realized that he really did't care, it was such a relief. Who was he going to tell? He just wanted an advantage in the chess game. I wonder if the chess discussion was true? I have never heard of the Indians playing chess before, but I can see them playing "for keeps, if they did. (hide spoiler)]

[Janice, Moderator]

Ashley wrote: "So much happened in this book I feel like I forgot to comment on lots of important things."

I agree with that sentiment. I think I need to take better notes but that's hard to do when you're lying in bed. LOL!

[Cherie]

I finished chapter 14 and 15.
Ch 14 (view spoiler)[ so-the question of sainthood for Sister Leopolda have been put aside? Maybe Father Damien's good works will replace the quest. "Whatever his belief, Father Damien had acted on the fundamental dictates of a great love. Sacrifice had been his rule. He'd put others above himself and lived in the abyss of doubt rather than forsake those in need." (hide spoiler)]

Ch 15 (view spoiler)[ I loved Lulu's story! I can not imagine staying in a hole for two days and two nights. Did you ever wonder how it would be to dig a hole to China? I think I tried once. My dad was so mad!!! "Since I behaved both the best and the worst of anyone else, I didn't know whether I was in for a prize or for a punishment when I was called to the office." (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Ashley wrote: "Chapter 9

[spoilers removed]"

I finally got to read your spoiler for this chapter, Ashley and I agree. I laughed at the remark too. (view spoiler)[Yes - Hatfield and McCoys thing sounds right, but times two. I did not realize that there were four different groups before then. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

Janice wrote: "Ashley wrote: "So much happened in this book I feel like I forgot to comment on lots of important things."

I agree with that sentiment. I think I need to take better notes but that's hard to do wh..."

I was thinking the same thing too, Janice. I overdid it on the yardwork on Sunday and my hands and arms hurt too much to hold one of the large print books to read, so I was laying down and reading on my Nook tablet, propped on it's side. To make a comment, I had to use my iPod.

[Cherie]

Gah - my ebook is going to expire tomorrow. Hopefully, I will be able to renew it. If there are no holds, I will be able to download it again. I am going to check my daughter's library and see if it is available, just in case.

[Janice, Moderator]

I finished to the end of Chapter 10.

(view spoiler)[It was shocking to me that the teenagers were so intent on killing each other. This feud is deadly serious. (hide spoiler)]

Ghost Music - (view spoiler)[ I wondered how Agnes was coping without having a piano. Will she tune and then play the piano they acquired? (hide spoiler)]

Fleur & Lulu - (view spoiler)[ Father/Agnes is besotted with the baby. It was shameful how the land and lumber was stolen from the people. I'm a little nervous about what Fleur has planned. (hide spoiler)]

[Janice, Moderator]

I'm headed out tomorrow morning for a week's holiday and will have little access to the internet. Carry on discussing the book and I'll join in when I can. I'm taking the book with me (and a notebook).

[Cherie]

I got through chapter 16 and 17 tonight. I started into chapter 18 but I am too tired to read any more nor type any comments, one fingered, on my iPod. Work has ramped up over the last two weeks and weekends demand yard work time away from reading - only listening when I'm not running any electrical tools. (Lawn mower, weed whacked and leaf blower.)
All my print and ebooks from the library have been renewed multiple times already.

My daughter's library does not have this book in ebook but they have an audio book. I put a hold on it, in case I can not renew my ebook from my library tomorrow.

[Sarah]

Fingers crossed you can renew it Cherie. Can you not renew early?

[Cherie]

My ebook files disappeared off of my Nook this morning. I put a hold on it right away, but I have not gotten a notice that I can download it again. Someone else may have it on hold and I may have to wait. There is a hold on the audio book, but no telling how long it will be before it is available to me.

No, Sarah - my library does not allow renewals on ebooks. You have to return the title and then hope that no one has put a hold on it, and if not, you can download it again. I believe I am the one with the only hold, but I am not sure. I will see what happens tomorrow. I really want to finish it.

[Cherie]

Janice - I agree with your chapter 8 spoilers. I thought the very same things.

re the spoiler for The Rosary (view spoiler)[I wondered who made it. It was used to strangle Napoleon. (hide spoiler)]

re Father Damien/Agnes (view spoiler)[I have thought it interesting how the text goes back and forth. I cannot quite put into words what feels so strange. We know she is a woman, posing as Father Damien, but to the outside she IS Father Damien but still Agnes. She thinks with Agnes's heart. To the Indians, it does not seem to matter what she is, but who she becomes. (hide spoiler)]

re penmanship (view spoiler)[ Yes, I thought the same thing! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 10 - the kids (view spoiler)[I could not believe how they thought they could get away with tying the kids in the car and drowning them. If the car had sank all of the way - when would they have been found? May be never. I think they ALL were lucky that they got away. (hide spoiler)]

the piano (view spoiler)[I wondered about the tuning too. I could not believe she could even play the old one. It must have sounded awful! (hide spoiler)]

Fleur and Lulu (view spoiler)[ Who was LuLu's father? Do we know. I did not understand Fleur. (hide spoiler)]

[Cherie]

I am not going to give any details, but the stories in Chapter 16 and Chapter 17 reminded me so much of the way that the stories of the people in One Hundred Years of Solitude were told. We know that the years are passing, but it feels very unreal to me.

[Renee]

Picking my copy up today. I hope to join