The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
International Booker Prize
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2018 MBI longlist and shortlist discussion
Imposter/impostor. I did a quick bit of "research". Latin root is impostorem, so natural spelling is impostor, but both spellings are considered correct (whichever side of the Atlantic you are).The noun referring to one who takes an assumed identity in order to deceive is variously spelled imposter and impostor. Impostor has the edge, and it is the form recommended by most English reference sources, but imposter is not wrong. Not only is it nearly as common as impostor, but it is also nearly as old. Impostor came to English from the French imposteur in the late 16th century, and imposter first appeared almost immediately thereafter. And though the -or spelling has always been more common, imposter has always been present to some degree.
Thanks. Still safest to adjust my scores I think!
The OED has impostor (also imposter), so it also suggests both are correct.Nice to see some enthusiasm for Binet, even if it is lukewarm.
Now I had better get on with reading the rest of the list.
Paul wrote: "You actually have two books ranked 2 on your list - I assumed scoring. I think Hugh ranked them both 2.5th ..."I just checked, I actually don't have two books ranked 2...must have been someone else! :-) There are many good books on the list though, so I see how this can happen!
Mod
I just checked, I actually don't have two books ranked 2...must have be..."
It is Neil that has two ranked 2nd, and I didn't notice - I had Flights at 2 and Vernon at 3 in my spreadsheet. Paul is correct that according to my normal rules I should treat them both as 2.5, and applying that fix moves Vernon up to 5th at the expense of Frankenstein, by a mere 0.0027 adjusted points!
It WAS me, but it isn’t now - I was editing as Hugh posted.It was a typing error. If I were to have any with equal ranks, it would be a lot of them at 3.
Still a typo though Neil in your rankings, you left off the 1 in front of the 3.
:-)Similar to your error with The Imposter.
Mod
Neil wrote: ":-)Similar to your error with The Imposter."
The Impost o r! I am increasingly convinced you read the wrong book. I also must have made the same mistake and there is a book called Vornon Subutox Won which I should have read instead.
Ah - now that typing error was deliberate, in keeping with discussion about how to spell it.
Based on the previous two years, how have we fared in predicting the shortlist? The current selection matches my own almost exactly. To be honest, "The White Book" and "Flights" are my top favorites and would be remiss of either of the two doesn't make it. For the rest, I am a lot more flexible.
Barbara wrote: "Based on the previous two years, how have we fared in predicting the shortlist?."Not very well usually. Ultimately picking a shortlist is very hard due to the three rules (Paul's Almost Impossibility Theorem)
1. The judges picked the longlist so by definition like the books
2. The judges are more likely than us to have re-read and even re-re-read
3. The judges are a small number of people with idiosyncratic tastes.
(and could add 4. The judges may want a balanced list, whereas our rankings don't allow for that)
Hence all 1716 possible shortlists are quite plausible.
Rule 1 makes it harder to pick books that definitely won't win it, and has less impact on the winner - and we do have a 100% track record of picking the winner (on a sample of 2 years).
Any idea what time they will publish the short list?
Paul wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Based on the previous two years, how have we fared in predicting the shortlist?."Not very well usually. Ultimately picking a shortlist is very hard due to the three rules (Paul's ..."
Thank you for that very thorough explanation.
That theorem makes sense. I am particularly worried based on my previous experience with the English-language Booker, as for the shortlists, the judges seem to go with books that frustrate readers the most (have a hard time imagining "4 3 2 1" held up that well on a second reading).
Hopefully, the MIB will pleasantly surprise us.
Louise wrote: "Any idea what time they will publish the short list?"It's going to be broadcast live on the Man Booker Facebook page starting at 7:15 pm UK time.
I finished my 7th on the long list this morning and it soared and landed in the number 1 slot. I rank the seven I've read as follows:1. The Flying Mountain
2. The Stolen Bicycle
3. Go, Went, Gone
4. Like a Fading Shadow
5. Flights
6. Frankenstein in Baghdad
7. The 7th Function of Language
I have one more in my possession and another 2 winging their way to me from the UK. Hopefully the 3 I did not manage to obtain won't make the shortlist!
Mod
"The Flying Mountain is now in the top six in my table" - Hooray! "displacing Frankenstein" - Oh! Think it will do the same to mine but Impostor will still be there rather than VS.
This feels like watching a football match live, except more exciting.
After last night, we just need an awkward Englishman to award a last minute red card and penalty in favour of the Spanish contender - Paul over to you
I already have - it's Hugh that needs to change his rankings.
Just to record the forum view 30 mins pre the official announcementShortlist of The White Book, Die My Love, Flights, The Stolen Bicycle, Flying Mountain
and either The Impostor or Vernon Subutex 1 depending on the system
with Frankenstein in Baghdad missing out by a tiny margin on both
1 The White Book 0.51
2 Die My Love 2.36
3 Flights 3.03
4 The Stolen Bicycle 3.84
5 Vernon Subutex 1 5.32
6 Flying Mountain 5.42
--------------------------
7 Frankenstein in Baghdad 5.46
8 Like a Fading Shadow 5.99
9 The Impostor 6.48
10 Go Went Gone 6.66
11 The Dinner Guest 8.21
12 The 7th Function of Language 8.65
13 The World Goes On 8.90
or
1 The White Book 36
2 Die My Love 23
3 Flights 16
4 The Stolen Bicycle 6
5 Flying Mountain 3
6 The Impostor -1
=================
7 Frankenstein in Baghdad -2
8 Vernon Subutex 1 -4
9 The World Goes On -11
10 Go Went Gone -12
11 Like a Fading Shadow -13
12 The Dinner Guest -17
13 The 7th Function of Language -24
Shortlist isThe White Book
The World Goes On
Vernon Subutex 1
Like a Fading Shadow
Frankenstein in Baghdad
Flights
So curious but FB is blocked at work. Have to wait 5 hours ;-(
Wow, Die, My Love didn't make it. Color me surprised.
Paul's Almost Impossibility Theorem strikes again
Incredibly disappointed that it didn't. But I'm happy that Flights and The White Book did. I don't know what possessed the judges to shortlist The World Goes on though.
So, 4 of my top 6 are there - that's better than I normally do!I assumed The World Goes on would make it even though it wasn't a personal choice, so that's 5.
The only one that surprises me at all is Like A Fading Shadow which I enjoyed but didn't think was spectacular.
Neil wrote: "So, 4 of my top 6 are there - that's better than I normally do!"Same! I think this might be a record for me.
To me the only certainty was FiB on the shortlist. And that happened. The rest feels like a balanced list with a wide selection of countries and styles, even if I need to try and retrieve one from the bin.
Is there a shortlist reading event planned.
I read 6 (well 5 and DNF one) of which four made the list. What I need now is a relative with a spare copy of the other two on the shortlist he will lend me.
Hint ...
Read one on the shortlist but I have The White Room and Vernon Subutex 1 on the TBR pile and a PDF of Flights. I'll get to them after I finish the Women's Prize Longlist.
Library copy of "The World Goes On" was due today, but last night it renewed automatically. I should have taken that as an omen of its shortlisting and my not being excused from finishing it. Now I feel compelled to read the Molina I own and have ignored.
I was also sure that we would see FiB on there (and rightly so). Needless to say, I'm thrilled that Subutex made it. Nevertheless, I stand by the prediction I made in February: Saadawi will win.
I have kindle versions of The White Room and Vernon Subutex 1. (I gave up on my library request of the former, but perhaps a few more people will request it now it has made the shortlist.)I suppose I will have to read The World Goes On and Like a Fading Shadow, both of which I was going to miss.
Have read two and one made it. Think I can read two more before the winner is out.
Feels to me this is the year the MBI finally lives up (or down) to its big brother - by making inexplicable decisions!Hopefully the shadow jury will have more taste. One judge does at least.
GY - Yes there are two events but exactly what they comprise not yet announced. And which books do you need? The one you binned I got Amazon to erase from my devices.
I'd only read two from the longlist (FiB and Die) ... was very happy to see FiB go forward, and even happier to see Die ... die!! (I detested it!) Just ordered White Book from the library (I liked The Vegetarian), and even though not a fan of short stories, might try World also... not so sure on the other three... if I ever DO get around to Vernon, it will be when the entire trilogy is available in translation...
Don't worry, Doug - the short stories in The World Goes On don't feel short.
I have not read The World Goes On or Like a Fading ShadowI might wait to see if Doug gives them 2* or less so I know if they are worth reading :o)
Paul - very helpful to list the number of events. I was sort of hoping for dates/locations. If they do the author/translator event like last year I would heavily recommend it - each author read from their book in the original followed by the translator reading from the same passage in their translation. I did not really like any books on last year's shortlist but I really enjoyed the event.
Neil wrote: "Don't worry, Doug - the short stories in The World Goes On don't feel short."Hmmm... am not so sure if that is a ringing endorsement - or not!!
Well, I've read 3 of the 6 and should have 2 of the other 3 by the weekend. But I do not want to read The World Goes On and do not intend to, even if it wins.
GY as a shadow jury member I don't actually have inside information on events coming up oddly (nor a veto over the shortlist unfortunately) but my insider Ms Googlesearch tells me that the following are planned:17 May, ‘Translation at its Finest’ event in partnership with Foyles and English PEN, Foyles, Charing Cross Road, London – tickets available soon
21 May, Man Booker International Prize event with Waterstones at The Emmanuel Centre, Westminster, London – tickets available soon
Incidentally on reflection the inclusion of Vernon Subutex doesn't bother me too much. I didn't like it but two of my favourite GRs, Neil and Meike, loved it. And crucially anyone reading it can form their own view (indeed the Amazon preview will tell you if you will like it or not). But the Munoz Molina and Krasznahorkai are far from their finest works and may well stop people going on to read those. I would seriously suggest anyone that hasn't read either read Sepharad and Satantango instead. Does feel the jurors in both cases are atoning for the omissions of the past.
Mod
Are we doing a separate shortlist rankings thread? Last year's combined one got a little confusing!
The Mookse and the Gripes
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Authors mentioned in this topic
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Javier Cercas (other topics)
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Impostor / Imposter - I'm still waiting for someone to tell me the 'correct spelling' - is it UK/US or both work? But I again assumed in my rankings you read a different book to the rest of us (seemed so from your review) so I swapped that into the now vacant 3rd place
:-)