2018 MBI longlist and shortlist discussion

[Wen]

I remember Ali Smith’s Winter, a Christmas book no less, was released in US in January. The publisher missed such a good marketing opportunity, I for one wouldn’t mind giving such a wonderful book as a Xmas present. Don’t really know the ins and outs of the publishing industry. -;(

[WndyJW]

We in the US are at a disadvantage for book releases and I’m thinking it would be cheaper for me to fly to England, buy the books and pay the extra carry on fee then to continue to pay postage for buying from small presses or Waterstones. The alternative is to be patient and wait for US publication, but I am not sure the small press books will ever find a publisher in the U.S. and I’ve never had much restraint when it comes to book purchases.

Speaking of publishers, I’m a bit torn over BigotTrump’s battle with Amazon. I grudgingly support Amazon in this, but only because I loathe BigotTrump.

I just noticed that everyone who has read The White Book ranks it in 1st place. No point in waiting for shortlist if this group ranks it above the rest.

[Eric]

WndyJW wrote: "We in the US are at a disadvantage for book releases and I’m thinking it would be cheaper for me to fly to England, buy the books and pay the extra carry on fee then to continue to pay postage for ..."

The US has plenty of books coming out in translation before they hit the UK. Check out publishers like Open Letter, New Directions, Two Lines Press, etc etc. The Best Translated Book Award longlist of 25 titles published in the US in 2017 comes out on Tuesday, and the Three Percent website (http://www.rochester.edu/College/tran...) includes translation databases for the last few years and already into 2018. Thanks Chad Post!

Also, Book Depository ships titles to the US for free I think and has plenty of those small publishers' books available.

[WndyJW]

Thank you, Eric. I will check out those publishers. Trevor listed some presses in the Best Irish and British Writers thread. I found a few that looked interesting.
I was aware of Three Percent, but I don’t think to check it as often as I should be apparently.

Those are excellent sites! I’m very excited to follow up with these. It looks like Open Letter, New Directions offer subscriptions as well!

[Doug]

I'll second Eric's recommendation of Books Depo - I buy virtually ALL my books there, even the ones available through Amazon (which actually owns BD also!), since they are always cheaper through BD, and there is no minimum for free shipping. They come within a week, and their customer service is outstanding.

[WndyJW]

Does Book Depository sell new books that they purchase from publishers?
I am very excited about the US presses Trevor and Eric listed. I have done several internet searches for US indie presses, independent publishers in US, etc., and none of those came up. Greywolf, Tin House, Catapult, and Coffeehouse came up, but not those other sites. Is Three Percent the only site that reviews US indie press books, Eric or Trevor?

[Dan]

Wendy wrote: "Does Book Depository sell new books that they purchase from publishers?"

Yes. Like AbeBooks, BD is owned by Amazon.

[Eric]

WndyJW wrote: "Does Book Depository sell new books that they purchase from publishers?
I am very excited about the US presses Trevor and Eric listed. I have done several internet searches for US indie presses, i..."

As far as reviews, I highly recommend The Complete Review and Quarterly Conversation. I'm sure there are a ton of others out there, but those are two that I like. Happy hunting.

[Marc]

BookDepot and AbeBooks are owned by Amazon?!! (Resistance is futile...)

[Ctb]

With a late start, I am unlikely to read and rank more than the two I have before shortlist is announced.

Don't feel able or compelled to skim The World Goes On, a squeaky spined library copy I'm the first to read that glows sardonically under the bed lamplight. I'd rather return to Satantango.

I own the Molina, but it doesn't entice, insidiously or guilelessly.

Bought Vernon and Die, My Love on March 17th from two Amazon sellers. I've finished Vernon (a good book for snorting rather than savoring) before DML has arrived.

I'll nibble World Goes On until its due date, which is same as shortlist date, then decide what else to pursue.

[WndyJW]

I agree, Marc. We want to support the presses performing labors of love bringing us great books so we must do a little work to find the booksellers that most benefit the publisher & writer and sometimes that means buying directly from the publisher.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Excellent Ctb - that update in itself would rate on the shortlist in my view.

[WndyJW]

Eric, are you a member of the Two Month Review group? I just joined, but I don't know how active I'll be. it doesn't look like anyone except Chad comments in that group.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

I suspect I will only read five of them (three already read, one currently reading and FIB which I picked up on Saturday) - the others are currently more expensive apart from the Binet which sounds too dry to appeal to me.

[Paul]

Longlist finished yesterday for me.

5 which would all be worthy winners: Die My Love, Flights, The White Book, The Impostor, The Stolen Bicycle;

3 more that are battling for the last shortlist place: Frankenstein in Baghdad, The Flying Mountain and Go, Went, Gone;

3 which add to the longlist but are too flawed to progress: The World Goes On, Like a Fading Shadow and The 7th Function of Love (on the first two please read Satantango and Sepharad instead for a proper taste of these normally excellent authors.);

1 marmite book: Vernon Subutex 1. I’m in the hate with a passion camp but at least it generates passions;

1 only that doesn’t belong in this company: The Dinner Guest which left me indifferent.

(punctuation added in tribute to The Impostor)

[Wen]

What’s the predicted winner on the other group?

[Paul]

Which other group?

[Wen]

Mookse and Gripes

[Paul]

This is the Mookse and Gripes?

White Book currently leads the dynamic rankings but I will be surprised if the MBI picks the same author and translator twice in the 3 years of its existence.

[Wen]

Lol sorry I’m on iPhone and thought was the booker group. Make sense. Will definitely read this one regardless.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

I would be surprised if FiB did not make the shortlist and not at all surprised to see it as the winner, even if I preferred a number of other books.

[Marc]

WndyJW wrote: "I agree, Marc. We want to support the presses performing labors of love bringing us great books so we must do a little work to find the booksellers that most benefit the publisher & writer and some..."
I'm guilty of too often taking the easy route when it comes to acquisitions...

[Dan]

Paul wrote: "1 marmite book: Vernon Subutex 1. I’m in the hate with a passion camp but at least it generates passions"

As one who feels that a day without Marmite is not a day fully lived, the term “Marmite book” has always felt off to me. Is it true that there are actually people who don’t enjoy Marmite?

Setting Marmite aside, which is often difficult for me, I don't plan on picking up Vernon Subutex 1: my paper and electronic to-read-right-now piles are much too large right now.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

Dan, Yes. I can't stand Marmite. Brewery waste!

[Dan]

Hugh wrote: "Dan, Yes. I can't stand Marmite. Brewery waste!"

Well, Hugh, at least I often share your taste in novels. Now I know that appreciation of Marmite (or lack thereof) doesn't predict appreciation of good fiction.

[Ctb]

Dan wrote: "As one who feels that a day without Marmite is not a day fully lived, the term “Marmite book” has always felt off to me. Is it true that there are actually people who don’t enjoy Marmite?..."

Funny, Dan.

I only know Marmite's description, not taste, but it doesn't sound appealing as a spread. It seems comparable to miso, suited for diluting in soups, dressings, marinades... sometimes using dark beer as a solvent.

But I get Paul's meaning of polarizing from Wiki.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Paul and I are both with you Dan. I take marmite on holidays with me.

[Neil]

I love Marmite!

I've read 12 of the long list. The thirteenth has not yet been published in UK and I doubt I will read it when it is. Maybe if it is short listed I will think about getting a copy.

Of the 12 I've read, there are 3 I would delighted to see win: The White Book (although this is unlikely as the same author/translator has already won), Flights and Vernon Subutex (because I am in the "loved it" camp). I'd also have FiB, 7th Function and Die, My Love on my short list.

That said, I feel bad about some of the ones I've therefore demoted as they were often beautiful and ambitious. It's only The Impostor that I didn't get on with.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

It's a nightmare to get off a book though which always makes reading at breakfast (or lunch or dinner) tricky.

[Dan]

Ctb wrote: "It seems comparable to miso"

Hmmm. I don't taste the similarity. Some say that Marmite tastes a bit like Bovril or Vegemite or even chopped (chicken) liver, but again I just don't taste much similarity. And the Bovril and Vegemite comparisons fail to do justice to Marmite.

[Dan]

Gumble's Yard wrote: "Paul and I are both with you Dan. I take marmite on holidays with me."

Ahh, so do I. But we're off for a quick trip to Bath in September, so presumably I can leave my Marmite jars back home i the U.S.

[Paul]

Hugh, beer is merely an accidental waste product of marmite manufacture.

[Robert]

Hugh wrote: "Dan, Yes. I can't stand Marmite. Brewery waste!"

I'm a Marmite hater as well - reminds me of some sort of expectorant

[Paul]

I read in the every reliable Daily Mail that marmite deters mosquitoes from biting you.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/art...

I tried it when on holiday last year and on the plus side I didn't get bitten, but on the downside having smeared my whole body with marmite, the hotel charged me extra for laundering the bed sheets and changing the swimming pool water.

[Paul]

On the eve of shortlist announcement (live on Facebook around 7pm UK time tomorrow) my version of the dynamic rankings has it:

Overall ranking Paul style
Eve of shortlist announcement:

1 The White Book 36
2 Die My Love 23
3 Flights 17
4 The Stolen Bicycle 7
J5 Frankenstein in Baghdad -1
J5 The Impostor -1
------------------------
7 Flying Mountain -3
8 Vernon Subutex 1 -4
J9 Go Went Gone -11
J9 The World Goes On -11
11 Like a Fading Shadow -12
12 The Dinner Guest -17
13 The 7th Function of Language -23

Hugh's system would agree on 5 of top 6 but Vernon Subutex would replace The Impostor on our shortlist.

Which is a good reason to prefer my system :-)

For the technically minded, mine gives more weight to those who have read most books - wonder who has read the most books on the list and ranked a certain book last :-)

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

I think you meant to write “would be the imposter”

[Val]

I have only read three so far and would rank them:
Frankenstein in Baghdad
The 7th Function of Language
The Impostor
I thought they were all good, but I seem to be alone in liking the second of those.

Edit: I am up to four and a bit now.
Die, My Love goes above the Impostor and I haven't decided quite where Flights fits, but it is high.

[Paul]

Gumble's Yard wrote: "I think you meant to write “would be the imposter”"

Incidentally - impostor / imposter - do both work? The book is the former. It is a UK/US thing or both work in both countries.

[Paul]

Val wrote: "I have only read three so far and would rank them:
Frankenstein in Baghdad
The 7th Function of Language
The Impostor
I thought they were all good, but I seem to be alone in liking the second of those."

Yes I am surprised by the relative lack of love for the Binet, although it wasn't quite my thing.

[Neil]

I liked the Binet! Don’t forget me!

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Should we expect the shadow jury’s shortlist sometime today?

[Meike]

Neil wrote: "I liked the Binet! Don’t forget me!"

I also really like the Binet!

[Louise]

I hope to like it - had 2 really chaotic weeks with work & family stuff, and little time to read - so am still just reading my second longlist book :-)

[Viv]

I really liked the Binet too!

I've only managed 4 of the longlist, but if Paul's prediction works out, then 3 of them will be shortlisted so halfway there :-)

[Paul]

Gumble's Yard wrote: "Should we expect the shadow jury’s shortlist sometime today?"

No. Next Thursday is the likely plan.

[Paul]

Meike wrote: "Neil wrote: "I liked the Binet! Don’t forget me!"

I also really like the Binet!"

Only 5th/12 though AND 3rd/6th though which is scraping onto shortlist territory and doesn't counteract other people putting it last.

Whereas another French book you both have much higher, which is why it makes the Hugh-system shortlist.

The other one that surprises me is The Flying Mountain - seems to have strong verbal support but again once you crunch the numbers it doesn't make it. From public reviews/tweets from the shadow jury members it seems to be getting more love there.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

I am not sure if it is entirely coincidental, but the four I have read are currently all in the top six, according to my ranking system, as is the one I have an unread copy of. This just leaves Flights unaccounted for. Most of the lower ranked books are still only available in hardback.

[Paul]

Hugh wrote: "Most of the lower ranked books are still only available in hardback. "

There is a slight and understandable tendency for people to rank the books they like 1,2,3,4 and then add the odd unliked one as 13th. Which does then rather flatter the books that have been read in the scoring system as they end up with above average scores.

Mine on the other hand rather flatters the views of people who have read all the books (cough) and also drags those read by lots to either extreme.

As I will never tire of saying, as per Kenneth Arrow, there is no possible perfect voting system.

[Neil]

Yes, I did put Binet only 5th, but, to be fair, the reality is that I had about 6-8 books at equal third! Top 2 (White Book and Flights) are top 2, but after that I find it hard to make a call and the list could change on a day to day basis. Except The Imposter is definitely 12th.

[Meike]

Paul wrote: "Only 5th/12 though AND 3rd/6th though which is scraping onto shortlist territory and doesn't counter..."

Yes, because I really liked Despentes, Saadawi and Binet, and you have to rank them somehow! :-) I also enjoyed Ransmayr a lot (but mainly because of his language), while I found Erpenbeck and Munoz Molina quite meeehh...