The Corinthian Group Read March 2018

[Hilary (A Wytch's Book Review)]

I think we are getting a little far from The Corinthian!

[Elizabeth]

I agree. We need to keep our mind focused on "The Corinthian".

[MaryL]

I've got it: Lydia is like the first Mrs David Copperfield! And I'm betting Piers will regret falling for her. Although right now she appeals to his need to be the big strong decisive type, while Pen admits she's the one who usually was the instigator of their childhood escapades.

[Rebekah]

Susan in NC wrote: "Doris day, that’s it! Couldn’t place her face. But the hat baffles me!"
https://betweennapsontheporch.net/vin...

See #4.
Becky

[Rebekah]

I loved this as a young girl. But I just can't imagine Pen in female clothes. I hope Richard won't have any trouble getting used to her looking like a young ingenue instead of a young sidekick.

[Susan in NC]

Rebekah wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Doris day, that’s it! Couldn’t place her face. But the hat baffles me!"
https://betweennapsontheporch.net/vin...

See #4.
Becky"

Ok, don’t laugh- but my two aunts who never married or had kids and worked their entire adult lives in downtown Chicago (quite a feat for two Irish Catholic girls raised in the 1950s! No biggie now...) anyway, they had the coolest clothes and stuff, and had swim caps just like that, tassels and bog plastic flowers attached - I’m sure inspired by Doris! We loved her films.

[Susan in NC]

I remember I couldn’t understand swim caps, even though my mom explained ladies who had their hair done once a week didn’t like to get it wet. I never used a swim cap, and couldn’t believe it worked, and felt sorry for them because they never put their heads under water!

[Jackie]

I remember swim caps from the YWCA back in the 60s and 70s, all the girls wore them and they were so tight it was painful to put them on, ugh. the first time I swam without one it was heaven.

[Susan in NC]

Jackie wrote: "I remember swim caps from the YWCA back in the 60s and 70s, all the girls wore them and they were so tight it was painful to put them on, ugh. the first time I swam without one it was heaven."

Yes!

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

We are getting a little off topic here, folks!

[Abigail]

I do sorta wish Heyer had given us a scene on which Sir Richard saw Pen out of drag. It might have been psychologically surprising for them both.

[Rebekah]

Abigail wrote: "I do sorta wish Heyer had given us a scene on which Sir Richard saw Pen out of drag. It might have been psychologically surprising for them both."
Indeed! She probably knew the changed dynamic would be awkward and just wouldn't work.

[Susan in NC]

Rebekah wrote: "Abigail wrote: "I do sorta wish Heyer had given us a scene on which Sir Richard saw Pen out of drag. It might have been psychologically surprising for them both."
Indeed! She probably knew the chan..."

Especially if it occurred toward the end - could throw off the whole premise. I mean, if it was too close to the end...

[Abigail]

Seems like it would have been a make-or-break moment in their relationship.

[Susan in NC]

Abigail wrote: "Seems like it would have been a make-or-break moment in their relationship."

Yes, and would have had to be expounded upon - I think it would have thrown off the pace too much. What do you all think?

[Abigail]

I guess I like light books that take a turn into a more serious vein, so I would have welcomed the change of pace and a little further development. The reason I’m intrigued by the idea is that I used to cross-dress for Halloween (being six feet tall, it seemed like the obvious thing for me to do) and was always struck by how uncomfortable it made some people; they couldn’t see it as a goof. Richard and Pen have only known each other in her cross-dressing phase, if you will, and the change to her usual persona might have been jarring. And I worry that she’ll find herself chafed by restrictions when she returns to being female in that society.

I like to think of them, later in life, going off someplace where neither of them is known so that she can get back into her boy clothes and have adventures with him! Maybe trekking in Snowdonia or something.

[Rebekah]

Susan in NC wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Seems like it would have been a make-or-break moment in their relationship."

Yes, and would have had to be expounded upon - I think it would have thrown off the pace too much. What..."
Yes, I definitely agree it would have thrown off the pace. Usually in with the cross-dressing trope, the girl is revealed in all of her glory midway through or sooner. Giving time to develop a more conventional relationship.

[Susan in NC]

Abigail wrote: "I guess I like light books that take a turn into a more serious vein, so I would have welcomed the change of pace and a little further development. The reason I’m intrigued by the idea is that I us..."

I admit, I was thinking the same - envisioning a future where Pen striding around their country estate in boy clothes!

I’m surprised people freaked over trick- or- treating as a boy - it was such a comic staple! My brother and I went as Sonny and Cher one year - it was a hoot!

[Susan in NC]

Rebekah wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Seems like it would have been a make-or-break moment in their relationship."

Yes, and would have had to be expounded upon - I think it would have thrown off the..."

It would definitely have made for a longer story! Like Abigail, I’d like to have seen at least a bit where we could be assured that they’ve adjusted to each other as man and woman and still like each other - something tells me their social circle may be limited a bit, especially if any of this gets out! I hope Pen likes Richard’s place - too hard to explain their presence if they stayed in Pen’s part of the world.

[Karlyne]

I haven't worn a dress since my last son got married, almost 7 years ago. Thank goodness my daughter went for a casual beach wedding last summer. I do own a couple of dresses still, but I'm not sure why. Jeans have so much more freedom!

So, yes, all along I've wondered just how hard it was going to be for Pen to fit back into society. I like the trekking idea, Abigail.

[Susan in NC]

Karlyne wrote: "I haven't worn a dress since my last son got married, almost 7 years ago. Thank goodness my daughter went for a casual beach wedding last summer. I do own a couple of dresses still, but I'm not sur..."

Oh my gosh! You’re a girly girl, actually owning a dress or two - jeans? I rarely get out of yoga pants since my last surgery!

I feel for Pen, it’s going to be a tough adjustment. Wasn’t she kind of interested in dresses at one point? I thought someone was packing or unpacking, and Pen was lusting after their gowns (Piers’ silly love? I forget, I was distracted by the love birds, and I’ve been reading other books since this one).

[Karlyne]

I'm a Westerner, through and through!

[Jane]

I think Pen would do just fine (and be just as fun) in skirts or pants. I never saw her as someone who was determined to be a "radical" and wear pants and do things to shock people for the rest or her days. I felt that the disguise was just that, a temporary disguise that was necessary to get her out of her situation. I always viewed her as a feminine sort (even possibly girly-girl) who just had an adventurous, fun-loving spirit. I think she and Richard will be just fine and have great fun whether she's wearing ball gowns in high society or horseback riding in pants on their country estate.

[Barb in Maryland]

Jane wrote: "I think Pen would do just fine (and be just as fun) in skirts or pants. I never saw her as someone who was determined to be a "radical" and wear pants and do things to shock people for the rest or ..."

Thank you, Jane. My thoughts exactly!

[Karlyne]

I don't think Pen was radical, and her "cross-dressing" was simply practical and not designed to stand out, but if she continued it, whether riding or not, it would become radical cross-dressing. Although some women did wear pants, they were few and far between and were definitely considered radically odd. (I'm thinking of Lady Hester Stanhope, perhaps the most famous radical of her time.)

[Susan in NC]

Jane wrote: "I think Pen would do just fine (and be just as fun) in skirts or pants. I never saw her as someone who was determined to be a "radical" and wear pants and do things to shock people for the rest or ..."

Oh, I like to think so!

[Karlyne]

Abigail wrote: "I guess I like light books that take a turn into a more serious vein, so I would have welcomed the change of pace and a little further development. The reason I’m intrigued by the idea is that I us..."

Haha, Abigail, we could have had some great Halloweens - I'm 5'3 on a good day. Wouldn't we have made a great Mutt and Jeff? At one time I had several close to 6' friends, and I tell you, I used to feel insignificant every now and then. Luckily, the other friend in our group wasn't 5' even on a good day...

[Abigail]

It’s funny, Karlyne, our semiconscious gut feelings about height! I am perfectly comfortable with any man who is over six feet tall, but if I meet a woman who is taller than I am? Look out!! I’m both uncomfortable and faintly hostile.

[Critterbee❇]

Abigail wrote: "It’s funny, Karlyne, our semiconscious gut feelings about height! I am perfectly comfortable with any man who is over six feet tall, but if I meet a woman who is taller than I am? Look out!! I’m bo..."

Interesting! Why is that?

I am usually most comfortable with people my own height, men and women, or if they are up to 6 feet tall.

[Abigail]

It’s something that lies below my conscious mind, Critterbee, so I don’t really have an answer. Maybe it’s just that I’m so used to towering over other women that it feels unnatural to me when I have to look up to one.

[Critterbee❇]

Whoops, spoiler question sorry, ,moving to the spoiler thread!

[Critterbee❇]

And goodreads posted this comment twice, sorry - edited to erase.

[Karlyne]

Abigail wrote: "It’s something that lies below my conscious mind, Critterbee, so I don’t really have an answer. Maybe it’s just that I’m so used to towering over other women that it feels unnatural to me when I ha..."

I think I perceive myself as being taller than I am, so it's only when I see myself in photos or stand next to people who are much taller than I am that I notice my ... vertically challenged self.

[Anjali]

I agree with Jane. Pen dresses as a boy out of necessity but there's nothing to suggest that she won't enjoy nice dresses and fashionable society!

[Nick]

Karlyne wrote: "I think I perceive myself as being taller than I am, so it's only when I see myself in photos or stand next to people who are much taller than I am that I notice my ... vertically challenged self."

I'm 5'3 too, and nobody ever believes me when I tell them because I seem taller. I've no idea how I do it though! I'm always faintly surprised to meet people shorter than me, like some part of brain has me pegged as The Shortest. Those 5 footers are defying the natural order.

[Critterbee❇]

Anjali wrote: "I agree with Jane. Pen dresses as a boy out of necessity but there's nothing to suggest that she won't enjoy nice dresses and fashionable society!"

True! Pen might like both, or decide that she really prefers dresses. Her personality is so strong, that I think she will not be daunted by living in women's clothing.

Even today, when a lot of women in the world have a choice of pants or skirts or dresses, everything is worn.

And as a heiress, Pen will be able to have her clothes made for her however she prefers. *edited* To clarify, she would be able to have her clothes made comfortably, as dressmakers would listen to her so as not to lose her business*

I think signs of eccentricity affected people negatively more when the spouse or a family member wanted to have them declared insane, or if a family member was a public figure (politician) or if their was some legal case that would be decided (they always seemed to connect personal actions to legal cases).

[Karlyne]

Nick wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "I think I perceive myself as being taller than I am, so it's only when I see myself in photos or stand next to people who are much taller than I am that I notice my ... vertically c..."

True! I have a friend who's 5'4ish and I definitely think he's taller than I am. No one ever thinks I'm taller than I am, though, except myself... However, I am the voice of authority in my family, and I'll be content with that!

[Susan in NC]

Karlyne wrote: "Nick wrote: "Karlyne wrote: "I think I perceive myself as being taller than I am, so it's only when I see myself in photos or stand next to people who are much taller than I am that I notice my ......"

Same here, clocking in at 5’3-3/4”; I don’t mind our only child looking like me, but I had hoped he’d get a little more of his dad's height! He’s 5’7”on a good day, though...

[Susan in NC]

Karlyne wrote: "Abigail wrote: "It’s something that lies below my conscious mind, Critterbee, so I don’t really have an answer. Maybe it’s just that I’m so used to towering over other women that it feels unnatural..."

Me, too!

[Susan in NC]

❇Critterbee wrote: "Anjali wrote: "I agree with Jane. Pen dresses as a boy out of necessity but there's nothing to suggest that she won't enjoy nice dresses and fashionable society!"

True! Pen might like both, or dec..."

Agreed - Pen will have money and social power on both sides in her marriage, and can dictate fashion as Richard does!

[Elizabeth]

So sorry I've not posted any thoughts on "The Corinthian". It's just that personal life takes precedence the majority of the time. I'm almost finished reading chapter 2.

[Abigail]

I know how hard it can be to snatch reading time, Elizabeth! Hoping you get a little downtime soon and can relax and enjoy this book, which is perfect for decompressing.