Eleanor Oliphant is completely fine- Group Read- March 2018

[[deleted user]]

The winner of the poll for our fiction read for March 2018 was Eleanor Oliphant Is Completely Fine.

Smart, warm, uplifting, the story of an out-of-the-ordinary heroine whose deadpan weirdness and unconscious wit make for an irresistible journey as she realizes the only way to survive is to open her heart

"Meet Eleanor Oliphant: She struggles with appropriate social skills and tends to say exactly what she’s thinking. Nothing is missing in her carefully timetabled life of avoiding social interactions, where weekends are punctuated by frozen pizza, vodka, and phone chats with Mummy. All this means that Eleanor has become a creature of habit (to say the least) and a bit of a loner.

But everything changes when Eleanor meets Raymond, the bumbling and deeply unhygienic IT guy from her office. When she and Raymond together save Sammy, an elderly gentleman who has fallen on the sidewalk, the three become the kinds of friends who rescue one another from the lives of isolation they have each been living. And it is Raymond’s big heart that will ultimately help Eleanor find the way to repair her own profoundly damaged one.

Eleanor Oliphant Is Completely Fine is the story of a quirky yet lonely woman whose social misunderstandings and deeply ingrained routines could be changed forever—if she can bear to confront the secrets she has avoided all her life. But if she does, she’ll learn that she, too, is capable of finding friendship—and even love—after all"

Looking forward to discussing the book with you all

[[deleted user]]

I read this in January and it's also my real life book club pick so I will definitely be commenting.

I have to admit, it was my favourite but I have rave reviews from lots of other people whose opinions I respect. I certainly think it's a good one to discuss.

I will post more thoughts when others have had a chance to read and comment!

[Leslie]

A popular book at my library -- I have submitted my hold so hopefully I will get a copy before March is over!

[Pink]

Yep reserved my copy too, I'm number 56 in the queue though!

[Pam]

I’ve heard lots of good reviews about this book! I’m waiting on a library hold, too. #35 on 8 copies so 3 months at the max!

[[deleted user]]

Oh no! Looks like a few people will be reading after March. It was a popular book when I requested it but my library is brilliant at requests and I actually got it very quickly

[Alannah]

I keep seeing this on my audible homepage, will definitely use this as an excuse to try it out.

[Chrissie]

Sorry to say, but this book totally failed me. I hope you all love it. Many many do even if I did not.

[[deleted user]]

I agree with you, Christie. We are definitely in the minority though and the book is worth a discussion,

[PattyMacDotComma]

This is one I quite enjoyed but didn't "love" as some people did. I did write a review that doesn't have any spoilers but does say a bit about the story, if you're interested. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Chrissie]

Heather wrote: "I agree with you, Christie. We are definitely in the minority though and the book is worth a discussion,"

I guess so.

[Alannah]

Heather wrote: "I agree with you, Christie. We are definitely in the minority though and the book is worth a discussion,"

I always think it makes for better discussion when people rate the book very differently.

[Evelyn]

I am also on the wait list at my library for this book

[Pink]

I'm down to number 42 on the waiting list....

[Leslie]

My library hold on the audiobook CDs has come through! I have a few books to finish up first but I should be starting this next week.

[[deleted user]]

Oh good Leslie! I look forward to your thoughts

Has anybody else actually managed to get the book yet?!

[Alannah]

I started the book last night, I don't know how far I am into in the novel as I haven't checked I just unplugged my earphones and went to sleep. I didn't think the beginning of the novel was that bad but I felt like I was waiting for something interesting to happen but I guess that might have been done on purpose as I get the feeling that Eleanor is supposed to be this boring character with a very strict routine.

[Alannah]

The more I'm listening to it; I think I'm starting to enjoy it. So far I would probably give about 3-4 stars.

[Shirley]

I'm going to read this too, it's just been chosen at my book club for the read after next, so I shall be late to the party, but will join in here once I've read it.

[Alannah]

I have finished the book and rated it four stars. Will share my thoughts tomorrow on it.

[[deleted user]]

I only gave it 2 stars

(view spoiler)[ I really didn’t find the main character believable. I also think it lightened mental illness and alcoholism and made it seem easy to go from very damaged to a ‘normal’ member of society. I also didn’t think the friendship between Raymond and Eleanor at all believable or the fact that they became so close to the guy the rescued (can’t remember his name). I was so disappointed because I felt it was all a bit too neat and tidy which didn’t feel real.

I guessed quite early on that something bad had happened to the mother but I thought she was maybe in prison until about 3/4 of the way through. The abuse was obvious from the start.

I have heard loads of positive things so I’m not sure why I didn’t like it so much but I just didn’t warm to any of the characters or found the story particularly heart warming. <\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

[Alannah]

I certainly get where you are coming from, Heather.

(view spoiler)[To me, the old man didn't play much of a role in the book for me, mostly he felt like a character that was put in to fill some of the space.

I sort of related to Eleanor a little bit as I can a bit of a loner and tend to avoid contact with some people I don't know. This made me think there was something more to Eleanor's character than just being a bit of an oddball. It wasn't until we got more of the phone calls that I could see the abuse and it felt clear to me that Eleanor shied away from people because of her unhappy childhood.

I do agree with you Heather, about the friendship between Eleanor and Raymond, I didn't think of them being friends, but more like Raymond feeling it was his duty to look after Eleanor after he found her. I wouldn't have been surprised if he knew about her all along and had researched her, which to me seemed a bit easy to do. But I think I'm reading too much into that.

I didn't think about the mother until it was made clear at the end of the novel, but it got thinking more about Eleanor's character, even after I had finished the book, she's trapped in this neverending cycle of abuse she forces upon herself because that is all she knows. To me, this made sense when she repeated that she was clothed and fed well in foster care but there wasn't any mention of her emotional needs until the counsellor brought it up. If she's neglected to think about her emotional needs, then it is clear that she never received any help for the abuse she suffered at the hands of her mother, so that's why I think the phone calls are important. She only stopped the phone calls as soon as she started to realise about her emotional needs.

I don't think the ending was tied up nicely for me as it left me thinking long after I finished the book, I don't think Eleanor simply has depression, I think it might be something a little more serious, but I do think the counselling was beginning to work. I don't think what she and Raymond had will blossom into anything more than what it is, to me they are simply work colleagues who meet up for lunch now and again. (hide spoiler)]

The only reason I did give it four stars because I was thinking about the novel when I wasn't listening to the audiobook, I was almost making excuses to listen to it for some more and I haven't felt that way about a book in a long time.

[Alannah]

And the fact I also wrote that much about the book, I don't think I've ever done that unless it was for English class.

[Jen from Quebec :0)]

I was only able to get the Audible version, which is a bummer, as I love to scribble all over hard copies. Also, with a character such as this one, I have a feeling that the audio experience will be very different to reading a print text..---Jen from Quebec :0)

[Alannah]

Jennifer Lynn wrote: "I was only able to get the Audible version, which is a bummer, as I love to scribble all over hard copies. Also, with a character such as this one, I have a feeling that the audio experience will b..."

I had the audible version; I enjoyed it.

[Heather]

A good friend recommended this to me recently, so I have put it on order at the library too. Hope to have it soon

[[deleted user]]

You make some interesting points, Alannah.

(view spoiler)[ I hadn’t thought about Raymond feeling a duty towards Eleanor. That is an interesting way of thinking of it. And I suppose it emphasises the unreliable narrator in the book; we see the friendship through Eleanor’s eyes which maybe makes it more than it is

I also understand your point about the emotional needs of Eleanor. But to me it just didn’t feel right. I don’t know if it’s because of the nature of my work in healthcare so I meet a lot of different characters and I can’t imagine an Eleanor (hide spoiler)]

I do value the book as one to discuss. I have a feeling it might be one of those I upgrade to a 3* on discussion as I’m already feeling a bit more love towards it. It certainly made me think, I read it in January and I still want to discuss it now

[Tweedledum]

I'll be joining the group read.

[Alannah]

Heather wrote: "You make some interesting points, Alannah.

I hadn’t thought about Raymond feeling a duty towards Eleanor. That is an interesting way of thinking of it. And I suppose it emphasises the unreliable..."

I think that is probably possible in your profession; I think that way about my sister who is a nurse, I wonder what she would feel about Eleanor as well. (view spoiler)[I had only experienced mental illness in fiction (hiding this because I didn't think about mental illness when I began to read it) (hide spoiler)] but you probably have experienced it in your job, and I know my sister certainly has.

I think overall I enjoyed the book because I went into thinking it was going to be quite light and fluffy but when I finished the book, I got something entirely different and I still can't stop thinking about it. The last book I reacted like this too was The Handmaid's Tale; I read that about six years ago and still, I love to discuss it. Just today, I was discussing the ending about it with a friend who had just finished it and it was like I'd just read it last week.

[Tweedledum]

Started Eleanor O this morning and do not want to stop reading!

The little windows into Eleanor's history are drawing me in and the description of the social worker's visit spot on. My eldest son has been through 3 or 4 in close succession and the case overload they endure makes it very difficult to do the job properly.

I am bemused by the idea that this book has occasionally been classified as "Chick-lit" ... It seems a far cry from that derisory definition. Unless every novel in which "girl meets boy" is so labelled. Now I sound like Eleanor!

[Leslie]

Alannah wrote: "I started the book last night, I don't know how far I am into in the novel as I haven't checked I just unplugged my earphones and went to sleep. I didn't think the beginning of the novel was that b..."

I haven't gotten very far (I too am listening to the audio version) but found something a bit disturbing about this 30-year-old woman acting like a 12-year-old with a crush, envisioning a future with a man she has never met. However, there are some interesting intimations about her past already so am suspending judgement at the moment.

[Tweedledum]

Well there are obviously a lot of skeletons but if you ask me there's an awful lot of Aspiegirl in there.

[Leslie]

Aspiegirl = Asperger's ?

[Pink]

I gave up waiting for the library and purchased the kindle edition as it was quite cheap. I've been reading for the past couple of hours and I'm about 30% in. I can see both why people love it or hate it and I'm somewhere in the middle at the moment. I'll put my thoughts so far in spoilers.

(view spoiler)[Things I love, are how fast paced and intriguing the story is, which is a contrast to my usual more dense reading. There are also parts of Eleanor that I'm enjoying, how she obviously has past struggles and traumas, but is living her every day life, getting by as best as she can. Somtimes it seems like she's on the autistic spectrum, other times she seems remote and traumatised from her past history, but we also have glimmers of her wanting a 'normal' life. I'm looking forward to finding out an explanation for what exactly has happened to Eleanor and her Mother, beyond an apparent emotional and physical abuse.

However, things I'm not so keen on are how unevenly she's portrayed. I'm jolted out of the story when her knowledge veers back and forth on various events, for instance not knowing the difference between computers and laptops, or owning a mobile, but then instantly using various social media to track her love interest. This didn't ring true to me, as with the waxing episode or her buying of Razzles for Sammy in the hospital. Oh and yes the way she's obsessing over the musician seems really off. That's probably a lot of picky criticism, but they're the things that are irking me. Mostly though, I'm looking forward to returning to the story to see where it leads, which is a good thing.

One more thing! Does it remind anyone else of The Rosie Project? It has a lot of similarities so far for me. (hide spoiler)]

[Pink]

I finished today, overall there were things that I liked, but it all felt a bit too light and easy in the final third. More spoilers for my thoughts-

(view spoiler)[ About halfway through it became clear there was going to be a younger sister who died in the fire. For a while I was afraid it would be revealed that Eleanor started the blaze herself, maybe in attempt to keep themselves warm. I thought maybe this was something the mother held over her still. I'm glad it didn't work out this way though. I did not see it coming that the mother had died in the fire and Eleanor had imagined their weekly phone converstions, but I thought this was wrapped up nicely. Some aspects of Eleanor's mental health were a bit all over the place, but I guess that could be true to life. Her getting an appointment with a therapist within a week was laughable though.

I've read some reviews complaining that Eleanor was an unlikeable character, which I don't agree with at all. Odd certainly, quirky, lacking social skills, which made her prickly and blunt, but she wasn't at all unlikeable. I warmed to her throughout the book and although there were aspects of the story that didn't quite ring true, I was interested enough to feel for her and wanted to know how it unfolded. I was extremely relieved that it didn't turn into a romance with Raymond, but their friendship developed, while maintaining this as a possibility for the future.

Overall I thought the book lacked the depth of the subject matter. It's about serious issues of depression/ PTSD but it was written in a lighthearted feel good way. The last third was wrapped up very quickly, so there was no time devoted to Eleanor's problems other than Raymond coming along to save her from a suicide crisis, then she quickly worked through counselling and had everything magically sorted within a couple of months. I guess that fits with the genre of this sort of book though. A story that touches on difficult topics, but in a feel good, light and breezy way.

So I'm glad that I read it, I found it a nice quick read, a sort of fluff book in between other things, though I'm not sure that's what it's supposed to be. (hide spoiler)]

[Leslie]

I agree with your spoiler Pink - (view spoiler)[I thought that it was implausible that she worked through her issues so quickly, but then I thought maybe as the therapist said, her "crush" was a sign she had been subconsciously working on her problems on her own. As for getting an appointment quickly, perhaps her suicide attempt gave her priority? (hide spoiler)]

[Pink]

(view spoiler)[ Priority would likely still mean a waiting time of several months at minimum. At least this has been the case for every person I've known to need access to these services, up and down the country. Suicide attempts may result in patients being sectioned, but not usually. Counselling takes a long time to gain access to, as there just aren't the resources in the NHS. I doubt that Scotland is different to England in this way. The only other option is to pay and go private.

These aspects that seemed factually improbable did lesson the story for me. Yet overall I was engrossed in the story, which sometimes is enough for a book. (hide spoiler)]

[Tweedledum]

I agree Pink that there are echoes of the Rosie Project but this has darker undertones and I thought the Rosie Project really laugh outloud funny. I just feel terribly sad for Eleanor.

Yes Aspiegirl= Aspergers but it is much more hidden in able women and this fits Eleanor. She is almost invisible ... Very efficient at her job .... but occasionally something jars. It's enough to make her work colleagues label her in a negative way but not enough for them to realise she is not really "getting the social picture" . She is trying hard to do the right thing, but it's not quite right... Like the food she bought for Sammy. When someone does comment she just thinks they are being rude.

[Pink]

I agree it seemed like she had Aspergers, especially in the first half of the book. After that we're told she's depressed and she gets help for her childhood trauma. In the end it felt like the Asperger traits were smoothed over, in her recovery, so more a lack of social skills due to her childhood.

[Tweedledum]

Nature or nurture.... The old debate... I look forward to reading on.

[[deleted user]]

Pink, I agree with your comments about therapy (view spoiler)[ I think this is why I struggled with the story. I felt it was all too easily resolved for Eleanor and didn't necessarily deal with mental illness is a very realistic way. I think this is a shame as the book is clearly very popular but I think it made it a bit too simple (hide spoiler)]

[Joan]

With trepidation, I picked up a copy at the library. Some t.v. shows and books about people with social anxieties have made me feel uncomfortable about mocking other people’s disabilities. For example, I never could laugh at Jerry Lewis’ routine.

[Joan]

I’m only on chapter 5, but I wonder if Eleanor imagines the animosity of her coworkers because she has such a poor self image. She believes they think her strange because she keeps her cup in her drawer - when probably they don’t think about her at all most of the time.

Also I object to her dismissal of tea-bag blended tea, I love my PG Tips, though my family mocks it as “Builder’s Tea”.

[Joan]

Wow, the tone certainly changes in chapter 6 (view spoiler)[ from the title and blurb on the book-jacket I’d assumed this was a fluffy comedy/love story but Eleanor’s backstory seems more serious now. (hide spoiler)]. I guess you shouldn’t judge a book by its cover ;-)

[Tweedledum]

Heather wrote: "Pink, I agree with your comments about therapy [spoilers removed]"
Yes having finished the book now I also feel that Eleanor's shocking trauma seems to have been resolved remarkably simply, but that fits, I guess, with her innate suggestibility. At the end, although "fine" and clearly headed for a much happier life, she remains somewhat naive. I am sticking by my "mildly Aspie" theory. Which, incidentally could go some way to explaining, though obviously not excusing, the mother's views of her children.

But, and it's a big but, there is a danger in overanalysing a novel. Bottom line is i found it a great story and Eleanor a great character. Definitely one to re-read.

[[deleted user]]

That is true, a novel is a story and overanalysing and trying to make it completely realistic will take away the enjoyable aspects

However, I still feel that I must have missed something in the book that has stopped me loving it as much as other people. I am not sure what, maybe my expectations were too high as I had only heard 5* reviews

We are discussing it in my real life book group on Wednesday and we are usually very cynical and critical so I will be interested to see if anybody else shares my feelings! I often end up increasing my star rating after a good discussion of a book

[Alannah]

Heather wrote: "That is true, a novel is a story and overanalysing and trying to make it completely realistic will take away the enjoyable aspects

However, I still feel that I must have missed something in the bo..."

I would certainly like to hear what your book group think as well, Heather.

[Pink]

Yes that will be interesting to hear what your real life book group think of it, Heather.

Tweedledum, I agree that there's enjoyment in this as a story. It's once you start analysing that it somewhat falls apart.

I'll find it interesting to see what I think of it in months to come, whether it sticks in my mind or not. At the moment it was a 3 star read for me.

[[deleted user]]

Pink wrote: "Yes that will be interesting to hear what your real life book group think of it, Heather.

Tweedledum, I agree that there's enjoyment in this as a story. It's once you start analysing that it some..."

I agree, I think I enjoyed it as I was reading it, then I really hated it for a bit just after I finished and now I'm moving back to a 2.5-3* read! Can't make up my mind

[Joan]

The author does a nice job of showing Eleanor’s social awkwardness without ridicule. I’m relieved and impressed with how the author keeps the humor and tone light while dealing thoughtfully with difficult issues.

Hmm, the office chatter has me thinking about all the outliers I have worked with and how we, as a group, did or did not try to include them.