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Using both Ingram and Createspace
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You cannot use a Createspace provided ISBN to publish on Ingram or anywhere else. But if you use your own ISBN from Bowker, you should be able to publish at both with that ISBN. You can get a much better rate buying ISBNs in bulk. Each format (epub, paperback, hard cover) and each edition requires its own ISBN. I have 8 published books and have so far used 32 ISBNs. So I could not recommend buying 1 ISBN if you intend to publish more books, more formats, more editions. I use my own ISBN to publish my paperback at Createspace (for Amazon only distribution) and Ingram (for everywhere else).
I know authors who have done it. I prefer to use separate ISBN numbers for Createspace and Ingram, and keep the Createspace expanded distribution.
If you own the ISBN, you can publish on IngramSpark and Createspace. This is a common practice with many authors, myself included. If, however, you use the free ISBN from Createspace, you are locked into their distribution network, can't go anywhere else with the number. Createspace has two levels of distribution, primary and extended. The primary puts the book on Amazon websites only. If you select the extended, the book is sent to US market retailers such as Barnes & Noble. However, you will lose a large chunk of royalties, because Createspace uses Ingram's US distribution network, and Ingram charges a fee.
Createspace will not distribute to libraries unless you use their free ISBN, which is another reason for using Ingram. Also, Ingram has a world-wide distribution market that is not available using Createspace.
Thanks everyone. Anita - yes, I buy my own Bowker ISBN. But HOW can I use the same one for both? Ingram insists its impossible, and if Ingram distributes to Amazon and won’t turn it off for Amazon, won’t that create confusion on the system? Could you give me a sense of what I have to do to make it work? I would appreciate that a lot. Thanks!
And again - I intend to use my own Bowker ISBN, and use Ingram for libraries and bookstores, and Createspace ONLY for Amazon, and not use Createspace for expanded distribution. Thanks.
I used the same ISBN for my paperbacks on Ingram and Createspace by entering it in the ISBN field while setting up the book. Are you getting an error message when you do this? How are you being told it's not possible?
I asked Ingram beforehand. They said that if the ISBN is already in use by Createspace, they’ll catch this and reject it.
And Amazon says I need to set it up on Amazon first - that if it’s already in use by Ingram, Createspace will reject it. Which do you complete first?
The only thing I'm aware of that sounds like that is if you get a free ISBN from Createspace and try to use it elsewhere. I've set up all of my books on Create Space first and Ingram second.
Ingram will catch it if you have set it up on Createspace with extended distribution. Because that puts it into Ingram's system. The concept is pretty simple. You can't put the same ISBN into Ingram twice. They may say they catch it if it's only in Createspace limited distribution, but there are many authors doing it, so that's just not true.
Right, I’m NOT doing extended Distribution. Just Amazon for Createspace. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear. Do you set it up on Createspace first or Amazon first? Amazon says it needs to be set up in Amazon first.
Steven wrote: "Thanks everyone. Anita - yes, I buy my own Bowker ISBN. But HOW can I use the same one for both? Ingram insists its impossible, and if Ingram distributes to Amazon and won’t turn it off for Amazon,..."Whoever is telling you is wrong. I have both my books, and books I have set up for other authors loaded to Ingram and Createspace. The same ISBN is used for both. I load first to Createspace, then to Ingram. Never had a problem. I go to Createspace first, because the process of getting the book up is faster, files are easier to tweak if I have to make a correction, and shipping is cheaper for proof books. If Createspace already has the book, when the file is received from Ingram, it is ignored. I know this because I set the price of my book lower on Amazon, than what it is through Ingram. Amazon has never made the correction.
One other note, ISBNs are the social security number in the publishing world. It's a unique number for each version of the book, print, paperback, and hardback. It is how books are cataloged and ordered. More then one ISBN for the same version of the book can create problems.
Anita wrote: "One other note, ISBNs are the social security number in the publishing world. It's a unique number for each version of the book, print, paperback, and hardback. It is how books are cataloged and ordered. More then one ISBN for the same version of the book can create problems."I would take exception to the statement that "more than one ISBN for the same version of the book can create problems."
While it is common practice for indie authors to use the same ISBN number for Createspace and Ingram in order to save money on ISBN numbers, it is arguably not "best practice." You may consider it the "same version" of the book, but Ingram's cover requirements are not identical to Createspace's, and most authors will update interiors on Createspace (because it is free) and not on Ingram (because it is not) so that you may not have the same interior between the two printers either. They may be printed and distributed from different facilities.
If a reader receives a lower-quality or misprinted book, then they should go back to the place they bought the book, but sometimes they will go back to the author and/or give the author feedback as to the quality of the book. Because I use different ISBN numbers on my Ingram books than on my Createspace books, all the reader has to do is refer to the ISBN number, and I know which printer produced the defective book (or which version of the book had a typo in it, or whatever the issue was.)
Having different ISBN numbers for different printers of the same title is not a problem; I'm not sure what problems you foresee it causing. They will both show up on Amazon as different editions, just like your ebook, paperback, hardcover, and audiobook show up as different editions. Just as trad pubbed books do. I see 46 different editions listed for Divergent, for example.
As you say, they are just like SSNs for books. It's okay if there are 2000 John Smiths in the USA; as long as they all have different SSNs, the IRS won't get them confused. You are more likely to have problems with two different editions of a book having identical ISBNs than you are with having a unique ISBN for each.
P.D. Workman (Pamela) wrote: "Anita wrote: "One other note, ISBNs are the social security number in the publishing world. It's a unique number for each version of the book, print, paperback, and hardback. . . You are more likely to have problems with two different editions of a book having identical ISBNs than you are with having a unique ISBN for each"You said it! Here is some text I copied directly from the Bowker website (the only U.S. supplier of ISBNs):
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The purpose of the ISBN is to identify one specific version of a book. If you wish to have a print (hardbound or softbound) or electronic (ePUB, PDF, or MOBI) version, or even register a new version, you will need a unique ISBN for each format. This allows retailers to help the customer understand exactly which version of a title they are purchasing.
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If you revise the interior matter of a book that creates a new edition and should have a new ISBN. This applies to POD versions published by CreateSpace as well as any other publisher.
I'm not sure about having different ISBNs for the same edition of a book just because it is printed by a different publisher (covers don't matter--a different cover does not create a new edition of a book). I guess it depends on exactly how you define "version" (shades of Bill Clinton!)
Steven wrote: "Thanks everyone. Anita - yes, I buy my own Bowker ISBN. But HOW can I use the same one for both? Ingram insists its impossible, and if Ingram distributes to Amazon and won’t turn it off for Amazon,..."The "trick" is not to have expanded distribution set up in the title. Only have Amazon enabled. IF you EVER select expanded distribution then try to use that ISBN at Ingram Spark you will have issues requiring you to call CreateSpace who has to call Ingram to have it removed from their system (there is a form on Ingram Spark to help speed up the process but it still takes weeks). Then you can set up a title on Spark with the same ISBN.
I use this hybrid method for several reasons. I usually set up the title in CreateSpace first since that is free, and once everything is fine, set it up in Ingram Spark. You can use the same interior file for both, but the cover templates are slightly different. However, once your cover is done in CreateSpace you can drag over the graphics to Ingram Spark's template and submit. Takes 2 minutes if that. In my experience, the end product is the same.
There have been several comments about using more ISBN's for different printers. And that is what CreateSpace and Ingram Spark are: PRINTERS. You are the publisher, not them. And unless you make large changes to the interior content, you can keep using the same ISBN.
For example, if you add a new forward by someone, or a new add-on chapter, then it NEEDS a new ISBN. New covers, fixed typos, do NOT need a new ISBN. If you doubt me check the big 5 out of NY. That is what they do. They don't issue a new ISBN just for a cover change. When they change the content, or format (ebook, print size etc), then yes they do. It is also stated several times what needs a new ISBN on Bowker's site. I called once to confirm about fixing typos was a new edition, the answer I got was NO.
A new ISBN is also needed if you got your rights back from a publisher and are publishing it yourself (but I am sure everyone here knew that).
Thank you, Don, for taking the time to clarify. Much appreciated!
Sheila wrote: "Thank you, Don, for taking the time to clarify. Much appreciated!"Welcome :)
Don wrote: "Steven wrote: "Thanks everyone. Anita - yes, I buy my own Bowker ISBN. But HOW can I use the same one for both? Ingram insists its impossible, and if Ingram distributes to Amazon and won’t turn it ..."Thank you Don for the information you have supplied to all of us. We see lots of stuff that does not clarify things. You have just did this for us. I am an Indie Author.
Howdy,Not sure if I shared this previously; Goodreads author Giacomo Giammatteo wrote a great article on this subject - https://selfpublishingadvice.org/watc...
I found it quite useful. Hope it helps.
That was useful info. Thanks for sharing!
IngramSpark / Lightning Source is very good for getting books into libraries and bookstores, but not so good getting books onto Amazon. The Alliance of Independent Authors recommends getting ONE ISBN from Bowker and using Ingram / LSI for bookstores and libraries and CreateSpace for Amazon. You can see the article here: https://selfpublishingadvice.org/what...
Has anyone done this? Amazon says it is possible - choose CreateSpace limited distribution just for Amazon, then choose Ingram and have them distribute only to libraries and bookstores. Amazon advises setting up Createspace FIRST, otherwise the ISBN will be rejected.
When I spoke to Ingram today, however, they said it was impossible. You cannot use the sameI ISBN for Ingram and Createspace, and Ingram is all or nothing - either you distribute everywhere or nowhere. However, the Ingram customer service is not always very well-informed.
So if anyone has ever done this, I'd appreciate hearing about it.
I work for a very small paperback publisher, so eliminating paperbacks in favor of Kindle-only isn't an option. Bookstores and libraries are a big part of our business.
thanks for your help.