Moby Dick - Chapters 17-40

[Dianne]

Linda wrote: "Good points, Dianne. It certainly doesn’t pertain to the action of the story. But still, as Mark said - “9 pages on whale biology in a book about whales” and that’s the breaking point? Lol."

but that guy probably normally reads John Grisham. He's easily lost.

*no offense to John Grisham fans intended.

[Mark]

Don't worry Dianne, the Grisham fans will never see your scandalous remark. The thread is titled Moby Dick . - )

[Dianne]

Mark wrote: "Don't worry Dianne, the Grisham fans will never see your scandalous remark. The thread is titled
Moby Dick
. - )"

oh phew! still some of our members might have guilty secrets. or be related or married or involved with such a person.

[Mark]

I'm sorry; I meant my comment only in jest! Best sellers keep the industry viable. I will continue to the end to feel sorry for those of us who insist upon distaining great works of world literature. But my sympathy offends them, for they seem sure of their negative assessments. The only advice one can offer is that the books never change, while readers often do.

[Dianne]

Mark wrote: "I'm sorry; I meant my comment only in jest! Best sellers keep the industry viable. I will continue to the end to feel sorry for those of us who insist upon distaining great works of world literatur..."

true! and my beloved 81 year old father only reads crime thrillers and reads them voraciously. He is the only who got me into reading to begin with!

[Mark]

Dianne wrote: "Mark wrote: "I'm sorry; I meant my comment only in jest! Best sellers keep the industry viable. I will continue to the end to feel sorry for those of us who insist upon distaining great works of wo..."

- )

[Tracey]

'If, then, to meanest mariners, and renegades and castaways, I shall hereafter ascribe high qualities, though dark; weave round them tragic graces; if even the most mournful, perchance the most abased, among them all, shall at times lift himself to the exalted mounts...then against all mortal critics bear me out, thou just Spirit of Equality, which hast spread one royal mantle of humanity over all my kind!...
Thy mighty, earthly marchings, ever cullest Thy selectest champions from the kingly commons; bear me out in it, O God!'

Quote from end of Chapter 26.

[Mark]

Tracey wrote: "'If, then, to meanest mariners, and renegades and castaways, I shall hereafter ascribe high qualities, though dark; weave round them tragic graces; if even the most mournful, perchance the most aba..."

???

[Tracey]

Mark wrote: "Tracey wrote: "'If, then, to meanest mariners, and renegades and castaways, I shall hereafter ascribe high qualities, though dark; weave round them tragic graces; if even the most mournful, perchan..."

Quote I liked from this section, chapter 26.

[Mark]

Tracey wrote: "Mark wrote: "Tracey wrote: "'If, then, to meanest mariners, and renegades and castaways, I shall hereafter ascribe high qualities, though dark; weave round them tragic graces; if even the most mour..."

Thank you! - )

[Pamela]

I loved all the contrasts in this section. The Cetology chapter was actually quite interesting, and showed how involved (even obsessed) Ishmael had become in the subject since his first voyage.

There was the powerful and quite terrifying scene with Ahab ranting at the men. More mention here of terrible things to come "Ah, ye admonitions and warnings! Why stay ye not when ye come? "

It's interesting too that here Melville is writing as though it is a play. There are stage directions peppered through the chapters, and Chapter 40 (Midnight Forecastle) is written like a play. I enjoyed that chapter, it gave visibility to the other sailors on board, with all their different backgrounds, and played around with language.

[Tracey]

Pamela wrote: "I loved all the contrasts in this section. The Cetology chapter was actually quite interesting, and showed how involved (even obsessed) Ishmael had become in the subject since his first voyage.

Th..."

I also noted the 'play' aspect. Melville wants us to be part of the story. It is a drama being enacted for all us land lubbers who would never experience this normally. Before the days of television this would have been quite an experience to read about. Even with the wonders of TV I am still getting a lot from reading this about the life of a whale ship and its crew.

[Pamela]

Take care Mark, this thread ends at Chapter 40 :)

[Mark]

Sorry.

[Biblio]

Awesome question, Dianne: "what are the illuminating insights from the chapters that digress from the main story?"

I find these bits to be the best part of all. I'm a fan of the monologues about life. I think chapter 1 or 2 where Melville compares the soul to the sea.

Ramadan, I thought Queequeg could be an actual Muslim? I love the quote: "[Ramadan] can't last forever, thank God, and his Ramadan only comes once a year; and I don't believe it's very punctual then." (Chapter 17, page 122)

Where to begin? Ishmael thanks his own God that someone else's devotional celebration is short. 'his Ramada' like he's the only one on planet Earth who observes it. And it's not punctual because it doesn't follow Gregorian time, it's a Lunar event. I love it!! Seeing these 2 faiths getting tangled up in this book is one of the best parts for me.

Best line of 2018 so far: “A soul’s a sort of a fifth wheel to a wagon” (Chapter XIX, page133)
We have sections of University devoted to this line: Theology!! A soul's universal but the second we try to rationalize it, it's our brain that's doing the rationalizing and therefore is the 5th wheel in a body and everything gets muddled up!!

[Paula]

Dianne wrote: "Chapters 30-31

Chapter 31 - Queen Mab

Okay maybe this is a crazy stretch, but there are several chapters in this reading assignment which are so strongly evocative of Shakespeare (including the obvious Queen Mab chapter) that I'm finding associations that may not be there, but which I like anyway. 🙃

In Chapter 29, Ahab lets loose on Stubb, calling him a donkey, a mule, and an ass. From there, in Queen Mab chapter, Stubb describes his dream where he is being kicked over and over.

I had to look up Queen Mab to refresh my memory, and in addition to the Romeo and Juliet reference (where Mab is the deliverer of dreams) I also found other references to this fairy of English folklore. She was known for playing pranks on sleepers, but also, in other early English works, she was named as the consort of Oberon, the fairy king.

This reminded me of my favorite Shakespeare play, A Midsummer Night's Dream, where Oberon and his Queen, Titania, are feuding. And here is where Bottom enters the play and is turned into an ass.

Stubb's dream reminded me strongly of Bottom's dream (as Bottom recounts it later to his friends) even before I started doing a bit of research; the rhythms and cadences of the prose, the absurdity of the dreams, the references to donkey, ass, mule, the similarity in personalities of Stubb and Bottom, etc..

And what are mules, asses and donkeys known for doing? Kicking.

When combined with the fact that Mab was known for playing pranks on sleepers, just as Bottom was played pranks upon by his fairy visitors, all of this made the association even deeper for me, and really made me laugh!

[Paula]

Dianne wrote: "Linda wrote: "So was that the extent of the “boring” part that people talk of? Chapter 32? It wasn’t nearly as long or as boring as I was expecting, unless there’s more to come. A coworker saw that..."

I still laugh about the dry humor Melville inserted in the bit about the Thrasher whale. That was hilarious!

[Mark]

Chapter 29 Enter Ahab; To Him, Stubb

"The warmly cool, clear, ringing, perfumed, overflowing, redundant days, were as crystal goblets of Persian sherbet, heaped up--flaked up, with rose-water snow." (111-112)

Lovely simile! But why Persian?

[Linda]

Paula wrote: "I still laugh about the dry humor Melville inserted in the bit about the Thrasher whale. That was hilarious! "

I love the dry humor too! There was someplace, maybe one of the footnotes?, where it said that he gave one of the whales or some other species their "passport", in essence he didn't belong in this systematic listing of whales.

[Dianne]

Pamela wrote: "I loved all the contrasts in this section. The Cetology chapter was actually quite interesting, and showed how involved (even obsessed) Ishmael had become in the subject since his first voyage.

Th..."

Melville was obsessed with whaling! There is actually a book about it, called Herman Melville's Whaling Years that is described as follows:

This rich storehouse of a study of Herman Melville’s whaling years promises to be both an instant classic and a constant resource. . . . It reconstructs the story of Melville’s four-year Pacific adventure with clarity, force, and freshness, using an astonishing variety of new and out-of-the-way sources."—Christopher Sten, President, The Melville Society Based on more than a half-century of research, Herman Melville’s Whaling Years is an essential work for Melville scholars. In meticulous and thoroughly documented detail, it examines one of the most stimulating periods in the great author’s life—the four years he spent aboard whaling vessels in the Pacific during the early 1840s. Melville would later draw repeatedly on these experiences in his writing, from his first successful novel, Typee, through his masterpiece Moby-Dick, to the poetry he wrote late in life. During his time in the Pacific, Melville served on three whaling ships, as well as on a U.S. Navy man-of-war. As a deserter from one whaleship, he spent four weeks among the cannibals of Nukahiva in the Marquesas, seeing those islands in a relatively untouched state before they were irrevocably changed by French annexation in 1842. Rebelling against duty on another ship, he was held as a prisoner in a native calaboose in Tahiti. He prowled South American ports while on liberty, hunted giant tortoises in the Galápagos Islands, and explored the islands of Eimeo (Moorea) and Maui. He also saw the Society and Sandwich (Hawaiian) Islands when the Western missionary presence was at its height. Heflin combed the logbooks of any ship at sea at the time of Melville’s voyages and examined nineteenth-century newspaper items, especially the marine intelligence columns, for mention of Melville’s vessels. He also studied British consular records pertaining to the mutiny aboard the Australian whaler Lucy Ann, an insurrection in which Melville participated and which inspired his second novel, Omoo. Distilling the life’s work of a leading Melville expert into book form for the first time, this scrupulously edited volume is the most in-depth account ever published of Melville’s years on whaleships and how those singular experiences influenced his writing.

[Dianne]

Biblio wrote: "Awesome question, Dianne: "what are the illuminating insights from the chapters that digress from the main story?"

I find these bits to be the best part of all. I'm a fan of the monologues about ..."

interesting line, A soul’s a sort of a fifth wheel to a wagon. or could you look at it like the soul IS the wagon? I think Ishmael describes the body as being inextricably linked to the soul, but ultimately the body is meaningless.

[Dianne]

Paula wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Chapters 30-31

Chapter 31 - Queen Mab

Okay maybe this is a crazy stretch, but there are several chapters in this reading assignment which are so strongly evocative of Shakespeare ..."

I SO wish i remembered my shakespeare! At some point I will need to focus on reading it again. Your reference to Midsummer's night's dream made me realize that the title to the recent chunkster Bottom's Dream must have been a Shakespeare reference!

[Dianne]

Mark wrote: "Chapter 29 Enter Ahab; To Him, Stubb

"The warmly cool, clear, ringing, perfumed, overflowing, redundant days, were as crystal goblets of Persian sherbet, heaped up--flaked up, with rose-water snow..."

I googled persian sherbet and it seems like it's a drink and not a sorbet! so now I'm even more confused.

[Biblio]

Me too, I could only find this:

[Stephanie]

I’m limping along. I just made it through the Cetology chapter. I did have to go look up pictures of the whales. I’m still finding this a hard book to get through. I find my mind is often wandering as I read through some of these chapters. Some of my mental images are amusing. Poor Starbuck I just can’t help but think of coffee. And Stubbs my mental inage if him is sadly Mr Smee from Peter Pan. I will say the monotony of some of these chapters likely mimics the monotony of the day to day grind on the healing ship as they begin their hunt for whales.

[Paula]

Stephanie wrote: "I’m limping along. I just made it through the Cetology chapter. I did have to go look up pictures of the whales. I’m still finding this a hard book to get through. I find my mind is often wandering..."

I think you and I are on the same wavelength. Every time I read Starbuck's name, I think coffee. But then, that makes sense, right?And you are right, Stubb is totally Smee!!!

[Stephanie]

Finally made it through this section. I was excited to meet Ahab and to learn about Moby Dick. I can’t help but think I am not smart enough for this book. So much of it goes over my head. I am not a stupid person. I cannot imagine reading this in high school...and I read many many classics in high school. It has always been a goal to complete this book so I will continue. Thanks for dragging me along

And just an added note....I love John Grisham. The best kind of brainless reading after a long stressful day at work. And great on audio while walking in the evenings.

Stephanie

[Paula]

Stephanie wrote: "Finally made it through this section. I was excited to meet Ahab and to learn about Moby Dick. I can’t help but think I am not smart enough for this book. So much of it goes over my head. I am not ..."

Whenever I pick up MD, I always make sure I have my iPad or iPhone right next to me. I'm constantly looking up stuff, which is giving me a ton of extra fun. I'm always glad when Dianne posts pictures because then I don't have to get confused when trying to visualize whale boats and the difference between a lance and a harpoon, or how all of those ropes work.

[Stephanie]

Paula, my biggest problems are all the Mythology and Biblical references. I finally decided I just need to let it go and proceed onward. I am excited to move on to the adventure.

[Paula]

Dianne wrote: "Pamela wrote: "I loved all the contrasts in this section. The Cetology chapter was actually quite interesting, and showed how involved (even obsessed) Ishmael had become in the subject since his fi..."

Ack! I looked up that book Dianne and well, it's arriving tomorrow. Couldn't resist. As if I don't have enough books everywhere. But then, what's one more?

😄😄😄👍🏻

[Stephanie]

I also appreciate Dianne’s pictures

[Paula]

When you finish Chapter 48, The First Lowering, let me know what you think. I loved that chapter!

As far as brainless reading, I can't speak for everyone, but I can't do without it. I love the Nero Wolfe novels by Rex Stout. I've read them so many times. Detective stories, but the main attraction is the dynamic between Archie Goodwin and his boss, Nero Wolfe.

And I really like the Sandman Slim novels by Richard Kadrey. I just reread all of them. Sometimes after a long frustrating day, I need to sit down and read about someone kicking butt and taking names. And they are funny too. Winning combo for me.

[Biblio]

Stephanie, don't worry about any bits you missed ^.^ I love it when a book's too difficult for me on the 1st go of it. The 2nd and 3 reading is when the book really blooms. Think of it as the 1st reading being a 1st meeting with someone who'll become your best friend. It just gets better and better as the years go by.

For my mindless books, I drop into unique, interesting sounding contemporary ones or straight into the joke/dictionary sections of the bookstore.

A Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue is a great one of just out of date slang & swears. For example, A Puff or Puffer is someone who bids at an auction without an intent to buy ^.^

[Dianne]

Biblio wrote: "Me too, I could only find this:

"

that is a combination of gross and hilarious at the same time!

[Dianne]

Stephanie wrote: "I’m limping along. I just made it through the Cetology chapter. I did have to go look up pictures of the whales. I’m still finding this a hard book to get through. I find my mind is often wandering..."

I think this book is one of those that you need to really be able to be in a space where you are relaxed and have a lack of distraction to focus on it. If I am tired, or it's been a long day, the language slides right over me. But if I read it first thing in the morning, for example, I pick up on the nuances and all of the beautiful turns of phrase. Maybe read in tiny bits at a time?

[Dianne]

Stephanie wrote: "Finally made it through this section. I was excited to meet Ahab and to learn about Moby Dick. I can’t help but think I am not smart enough for this book. So much of it goes over my head. I am not ..."

we will drag you to the finish stephanie! I am hopeful we will pick something more your speed soon. And while I joke about Grisham my dad loves him so there must be something to it !

[Dianne]

Paula wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Pamela wrote: "I loved all the contrasts in this section. The Cetology chapter was actually quite interesting, and showed how involved (even obsessed) Ishmael had become in the subje..."

that's awesome! too funny. Do tell how it is.

[Dianne]

Stephanie wrote: "I also appreciate Dianne’s pictures"

Thanks Paula and Stephanie! It is fun to look them up, and since I imagine all of us know about NOTHING with respect to whaling, it can only help!

[Dianne]

Paula wrote: "When you finish Chapter 48, The First Lowering, let me know what you think. I loved that chapter!

As far as brainless reading, I can't speak for everyone, but I can't do without it. I love the Ner..."

I'm going to earmark these for beach reads Paula, thanks!

[Dianne]

Biblio wrote: "Stephanie, don't worry about any bits you missed ^.^ I love it when a book's too difficult for me on the 1st go of it. The 2nd and 3 reading is when the book really blooms. Think of it as the 1st r..."

I'll confess this is my third reading and I like it SO much more than my prior reads this time.

[Biblio]

I didn't know you read it that many times!! It's firmly placed on my vacation TBR for a re-read!