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Andersonville
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Andersonville with reading schedule, summer/fall 2014 Chunky Read
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From Wikipedia:MacKinlay Kantor (February 4, 1904 – October 11, 1977),[1] born Benjamin McKinlay Kantor, was an American journalist, novelist and screenwriter. He wrote more than 30 novels, several set during the American Civil War, and was awarded the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction in 1956 for his 1955 novel Andersonville, about the Confederate prisoner of war camp. (The novel is often erroneously believed to have been the basis for the stage play and TV movie The Andersonville Trial (1970), as well as for the TV mini-series Andersonville (film) (1995), but neither has any actual connection to Kantor's work.)
During World War II, Kantor reported from London as a war correspondent for a Los Angeles newspaper. After flying with some bombing missions, he asked for and received training to operate the bomber's turret machine guns, although he was not in service and this was in violation of regulations. Kantor interviewed numerous wounded troops, whose thoughts and ideas inspired a later novel.
When Kantor interviewed U.S. troops, many told him the only goal was to get home alive. He was reminded of the Protestant hymn: "When all my labors and trials are o're / And I am safe on that beautiful shore [Heaven], O that will be / Glory for me!" Kantor returned from the European theater of war on military air transport (MAT). After the war, the producer Samuel Goldwyn commissioned him to write a screenplay about veterans' returning home.[7] Kantor wrote a novel in blank verse, which was published as Glory for Me (1945).[8] After selling the movie rights to his novel, Kantor was disappointed that the film was released under the name The Best Years of Our Lives (1946), and details of the story were changed by the screenwriter Robert Sherwood. Kantor was said to have lost his temper with Goldwyn and walked off the Hollywood lot. The first 15 seconds of the movie note that it is "based upon a novel by MacKinlay Kantor" but the novel's name was not told. His basic story had power, as the film was a commercial and critical success, winning seven Academy Awards.
Beginning in 1948, Kantor arranged an intensive period of research with the New York City Police Department (NYCPD). He was the only civilian other than reporters allowed to ride with police on their beat. He often rode on night shifts, working with the 23rd Precinct, whose territory ranged from upper Park Avenue to East Harlem, with a wide range of residents and incomes. These experiences informed most of his short crime novels, as well as his major work Signal Thirty-Two, published in 1950 with jacket art by his wife Irene Layne Kantor.[4]
Kantor was noted for his limited use of punctuation within his literary compositions.[9]
During his assignment with the U.S. troops in World War II, Kantor entered the concentration camp of Buchenwald as they liberated it on April 14, 1945. During the next decade, his experience would inform his research for and writing of Andersonville, his novel about the Confederate prisoner of war camp. One of the issues he struggled with in Germany and afterward was how to think of the civilians who lived near Buchenwald. As he struggled to understand, he developed ideas used in his novel, where he portrayed some civilian Southerners sympathetically, in contrast to officers at the camp.[10]
Great looking forward to the discussion and reading
Here is a list of the main characters, I hope this helps:Henry Wirz (Confederate, camp commandant)
John McElroy (Union prisoner, future memoir writer)
William Collins (Union prisoner, "Raider" leader )
Boston Corbett (Union prisoner, )
John Winder (Confederate general in charge of prisoners-of-war)
John L. Ransom (1843-1919) (Union prisoner), a printer from Jackson, Michigan, who kept a detailed diary of his capture, imprisonment. This was published as Andersonville Diary.
Robert Hall Chilton (Confederate Inspector General in Richmond who received reports from Field Surgeons, and consequently wondered, in print, about the judgment of history if the abominations at Andersonville remained uncorrected.
I'll order mine tomorrow.
Amazon has the ebook in separate volumes. Are you reading the entire volumes?
Sandra, I don't know how to answer that. Why not download the first volume (free on kindle) and see how far that gets in relation to our hard copies?
Mod
The only ebook I see on Amazon is Andersonville by John McElroy and I see a "volume 1" for that listed for free.
We are reading Andersonville by MacKinlay Kantor
Thank you for clarifying. I didn't understand how it got to be 4 volumes!!!!
Mod
Kantor was noted for his limited use of punctuation within his literary compositions."
No kidding! This author has no idea what quotations are to note when someone is talking!! UGH!!!! :-)
OK so one of my pet peeves has to do with my education. Learning history in school, I never was aware that the history books we used were one sided and slanted to the authors viewpoints. As an adult I learned this. In reading Andersonville, and reading such different perspectives of the Civil War this reinforces this.
Mod
This book has the feel of a French braid. We keep gathering in new characters, but each is tied into what we already know so we don't lose track of the first characters we met. I still feel as if things are being set up and the story is not yet unfolding.
One if the most remarkable parts to me was the education piece. All the northern soldiers could read and write. Most of the southern soldiers couldn't. Why do you think that us so? Does it help you in understanding the civil war more?
I was surprised to read that most Confederate soldiers were illiterate. I assume that the large amount of urban centers in the North might have facilitated universal elementary education and that more isolated rural households in the South might have made community schools more difficult. But, I would have expected this to have been off set by home schooling. There would have been extreme poverty in both North and South. Plus, immigrants would have been more likely to settle in the urban centers of the North where they might have found peer communities. Because 19th century immigration to the US was largely the impoverished of Europe, many of these would not have had the luxury of much education. Therefore, I would have expected the level of literacy to have been roughly comprible on both sides.
Well I am wondering if part of the reason is that the men had to run/oversee the plantations. When planting etc had to be done, education was on the back burner. If this is true, it is understandable that the whole economy/financial is threatened if there were no more slaves. I am wondering if this went hand in hand?
I can't imagine that the plantation owners were illiterate. They needed to keep financial ledgers, order supplies and engage in commercial transactions that required records and sums too large to be kept in the head. I suspect that the illiterate Southerners were those with small bits of land, others who eked out a living. Ira and his family have sufficient leisure to engage in literary games. Maybe plantation responsibilities did not encourage a great amount of reading, require a university degree or equate masculinity with scholarship, but I can't imagine that they would not have been able to sign their names which was the criteria which supposedly divided those soldiers in that scene.
Mod
Maybe it indicates that the Southern culture was more stratified, a far smaller group of those with enough money and time to afford an education while the Northern had a larger middle class. If that is the case, then maybe there are fewer of those more educated land owning men enlisted and more of the Cora and Flora types in the Confederate army. While, maybe the Northern army had more tailors and butchers and Prarie farmers with a one-room school house basic education in it.
Well that could be true Irene. Although living in the North I remember reading about how the farmers kids were pulled out of school to work the farms. That being said, could the proportion of farmers/plantation owners be that skewed? I am still wondering if the southern farmers/plantation owners had that much more to lose and therefore more enlisted.
Ira's sons enlist and they would have been literate. The question was simply to separate by those who could write their own names, not those with an 8th grade education. And, the officer incharge was shocked to see all the Northern soldiers claiming the ability to read. Did this reflect a prejudice against the population of the North which caused him to assume that they were all illiterate? Or is this telling us something about the utter lack of basic education in the South?
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http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/lit...
"By the middle of the 19th century, the literacy levels in America were such that a large percentage of soldiers on both sides of the line produced a rich harvest of written material recording their experiences in the greatest event in their lives. "Civil War armies were the most literate in all history to that time," notes historian James McPherson."
So I wonder if the Southern Officers were just looking down at the Northern soldiers?
Mod
"The leading historian of Civil War soldiers, Bell Irvin Wiley, found newspaper circulation to be greater among Union than Confederate soldiers. It is quite true that literacy rates were higher in the North than in the South and that the per capita antebellum circulation of newspapers had been three times as large in the free states as in the slave states. And, during the Civil War there were four or five times as many reporters with Union armies as with Confederate armies."5 Nevertheless, Johnny Reb was as avid a reader of newspapers -- when he could get them -- as Billy Yank. In January 1862 a private in the 17th Mississippi stationed near Leesburg, Virginia, wrote in his diary: "Spend much time in reading the daily papers & discussing the war question in general. We always close by coming to the conclusion that we will after much hard fighting succeed in establishing our independence." Two years later a lieutenant in the 4th Virginia reported that the "boys" spent much of their time in winter quarters reading the papers. We "make comments on the news and express our opinions quite freely about the blood and thunder editorials in the Richmond papers, smoke again and go to bed." Even in the Petersburg trenches later that summer, soldiers in the 43rd Alabama "have daily access to the Richmond papers....We spend much of our time in reading these journals and discussing the situation."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexper...
Very interesting, Sheila. Thanks for that research.
This is great, thanks Sheila.I am on vacation and won't be able to post more questions until Tuesday
I am having a difficult time with this book. Although the writing is strong, the subject is so dark and brutal. This past week's reading chapters seemed to have no respit from the ugliness. Maybe if we saw the prisoners bonding together to protect one another against the enemy it would be a bit easier, but they are their own enemy. This seems as close to an image of hell as I think I have seen this side of the grave.
I am hoping that changes. I think we have to see how bad their reality is prior to how they attempt to resolve their situation. At this point I feel Ike it is akin to the concentration camps.
Mod
In most accounts of WWII consentration camps that I have read, the emphasis of the brutality has been guard on prisoner. Although we get a little bit of guard on prisoner brutality, the emphasis in this story is on the internal prisoner on prisoner brutality. It reminds me of modern day maximum security prison horror stories, but much bigger and even less regulated with greater privations caused by the scarcity of war.
Well in some of the books I read about the concentration camps during the Holocaust the Jewish Guards were more brutal to the inmates to keep themselves alive. I guess we are learning more ways of the survival of the fittest?
Oh my, dark and ugly chapters indeed! The brutality of the concentration camps was more systematic and had a very different intent; here it seems to be caused by a lack of everything: materials, skills and liking/trust of one another on the part of the administrators and guards. So chaos reigns and every prisoner fends for himself. Survival of the fittest is right - and if the tally that was in this week's section is any indication, there won't be survival of too many. I'm glad to have the chapters switch focus on different individuals, that way we at least get the Claffey family every once in a while. Reading about a family in mourning and the last vestiges of slavery seems "light" compared to all the rest!
I am still having trouble understanding the hatred of the North vs South. I know this is naïve I jusr don't get hatred of one group of people vs the other to the point that it brings it to war, or systematic obliteration.
Mod
I don't understand the hatred either Meg, but truthfully I don't think it is any different than all the hatred that currently exists all around the world, with people of different races or different religious sects hating anyone who isn't "them".
That is exactly what I mean Sheila, I have a hard time understanding hatred in general.
Do you think that men and women read/like books written differently? I am thinking we all are looking more for a character/story line development. Men that I am talking to prefer the historical facts and do not feel the need to "side track". Forgive me for the stereotype here, I am not usually like that
Well, the fact that there is an entire genre of "chick lit" which focuses on relationships would support that thesis. But, I suspect it is a steriotype that does not completely hold up. I often like the historical information. I am enjoying the information about the prison camp. I am disliking the personalization of the brutality.
Mod
Well what what we are criticizing seems more that we are looking for character building so I am thinking that this is more appealing to men because of that. I am really enjoying the fact that it is making me think a lot.
Some Facts from Andersonville web site: You might want to read only 1/2 of this if you are unfamiliar with the historyDates:
Union prisoners first arrived at Andersonville on February 27, 1864, and the camp operated until the end of the war.
Camp History:
In late 1863, the Confederacy found that it needed to construct additional prisoner of war camps to house captured Union soldiers waiting to be exchanged. As leaders discussed where to place these new camps, former Georgia governor, Major General Howell Cobb stepped forward to suggest the interior of his home state. Citing southern Georgia's distance from the front lines, relative immunity to Union cavalry raids, and easy access to railroads, Cobb was able to convince his superiors to build a camp in Sumter County. In November 1863, Captain W. Sidney Winder was dispatched to find a suitable location.
Arriving at the tiny village of Andersonville, Winder found what he believed to be an ideal site. Located near the Southwestern Railroad, Andersonville possessed transit access and a good water source. With the location secured, Captain Richard B. Winder was sent to Andersonville to design and oversee the construction of the prison. Planning a facility for 10,000 prisoners, Winder designed a 16.5 acre rectangular compound that had a stream flowing through the center. Naming the prison Camp Sumter in January 1864, Winder used local slaves to construct the compound's walls.
Built of tight-fitting pine logs, the stockade wall presented a solid facade that did not allow the slightest view of the outside world. Access to the stockade was through two large gates set in the west wall. Inside, a light fence was built approximately 19-25 feet from the stockade. This "dead line" was meant to keep prisoners away from the walls and any caught crossing it was shot immediately. Due to its simple construction, the camp rose quickly and the first prisoners arrived on February 27, 1864. While the population steadily grew, it began to balloon after the Fort Pillow incident in April.
On April 12, 1864, Confederate forced under Major General Nathan Bedford Forrest massacred black Union soldiers at Fort Pillow, TN. In response, President Abraham Lincoln demanded that black prisoners of war be treated the same as their white comrades. This was refused by Confederate President Jefferson Davis. As a result, Lincoln and Lt. General Ulysses S. Grant suspended all prisoner exchanges. With the halt of exchanges, POW populations on both sides began to grow rapidly. At Andersonville, the population reached 20,000 by early June, twice the camp's intended capacity.
With prison badly overcrowded, its superintendent, Major Henry Wirz, authorized an expansion of the stockade. Using prisoner labor, a 610 ft. addition was built on the prison's north side. Built in two weeks, it was opened to the prisoners on July 1. Despite this 10-acre expansion, Andersonville remained badly overcrowded with the population peaking at 33,000 in August. Throughout the summer, conditions in the camp continued to deteriorate as the men, exposed to the elements, suffered from malnutrition and diseases such as dysentery.
With its water source polluted from the overcrowding, epidemics swept through the prison raising its monthly mortality rate to around 3,000. These prisoners were buried in mass graves outside the stockade. Life within Andersonville was made worse by a group of prisoners known as the "Raiders" who stole food and valuables from other prisoners. These were eventually rounded up by a second group known as the "Regulators." Following their capture, the Raiders were put on trial by the prisoners and found guilty. Punishments varied from ball and chain to, in six cases, hanging.
As Major General William T. Sherman's troops marched on Atlanta, General John Winder, the head of Confederate POW camps, ordered Wirz to construct earthwork defenses around the camp. These were not needed as following Sherman's capture of the city, the majority of the camp's prisoners were transferred to a new facility at Millen, GA. In late 1864, with Sherman moving toward Savannah, some were transferred back to Andersonville raising the prison's population to around 5,000. It remained at this level until the war's end in April 1865.
Andersonville has become synonymous with the trials and atrocities faced by POWs during the Civil War. Of the approximately 45,000 Union soldiers who passed through Andersonville, 12,913 died within the prison's walls. This represented 28% of Andersonville's population and 40% of all Union POW deaths during the war. In May 1865, Wirz was arrested and taken to Washington. Tried for conspiring to impair the lives of Union prisoners of war, he was found guilty that November. In a controversial decision, Wirz was sentenced to death and hung on November 10, 1865. He was one of two individuals tried, convicted, and executed for war crimes during the Civil War. The site of Andersonville was purchased by the Federal government in 1910, and is now the home of Andersonville National Historic Site.
And a review: Posted by Richard Isakson at 10:21The impression I came away with after reading Andersonville is that there were no real winners in the American Civil War. Freeing the slaves and preserving the United States were causes that made the War worth fighting but the cost was enormous in terms of lives lost and the human suffering that resulted from the conflict. Andersonville helped me better understand the degree of suffering inflicted on captured Northern soldiers. Kantor conveyed that there were many among the Andersonville prison administration and guards who wanted to punish the Yankees and were not unhappy to see them die. Toward the end of the War, when Andersonville came into being, the South was desperate for resources, both human and material. Maybe they could not provide shelter, water and food for the prisoners but I believe conditions were worse in Andersonville than they had to be and Kantor seems to be making that point.
And this response to the review made me cry:AnonymousJuly 12, 2013 at 9:42 PM
Great review. Have been to the site 4 times since my Grandmother was born 40 miles away in Parkerville, Georgia which no longer exists. The National POW museum is based there and is a must-see for any POW or descendant of one. They proudly sell copies of the book in the gift shop. It is the best Civil War novel in my opinion, better than Gone With The Wind. Scarlett's beloved Tara was the Taj Mahal by comparison to the horrific prison pen at Andersonville. The site is the most solemn and lonely of 26 Civil War sites I have visited and when you move from the prison area to the national cemetery which contains the graves of 17,000 Yankees who died in 8 months time, prepare to be brought to your knees. I was overcome by the graves and wept openly in front of others. Thank you for keeping the flame on this largely forgotten masterpiece.
Mod
Well it is hard to believe that this is only an eight month period. Now I am wondering was there a Northern equivalent?
Interesting Meg. I am surprised to see that it is only 8 months also. Ihave heard that northern camps were just as horrid.
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http://www.nps.gov/media/photo/galler...
Interesting photos, thanks Sheila.The rape scene in this week's reading was particularly disturbing to me
Chicks On Lit
Books mentioned in this topic
North and South (other topics)Love and War (other topics)
Heaven and Hell (other topics)
Andersonville (other topics)
Andersonville (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
John McElroy (other topics)MacKinlay Kantor (other topics)
8/24 - please read through Chapter XIV and be ready to discuss, then start reading through Chapter XXI
8/31 - discuss through XXI and read through XXX
9/7 - discuss XXX read through XL
9/14 - discuss through XL read through XLVI
9/21 - discuss through XLVI read through LV
9/28 - discus through LV finish the book
10/5 - Discuss book in its entirety
Looking forward to starting this book with everyone